NATO: Discussion and News

lancelot wrote:

Sujoy wrote:U.S Navy engineer arrested for selling classified information pertaining to nuclear submarines to France
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10513081/US-Navy-engineer-admits-selling-nuclear-submarine-secrets-foreign-country-turning-wife.html

He wanted to sell it to France. He sent data on the Virginia submarine propulsion system to the French Embassy and they turned his information in to the US FBI. From then on his contact was with an FBI special agent. Eventually he got arrested.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/jonathan-diana-toebbe-spy-trial-espionage.html

The idiot could of went to the Chinese Embassy and would of been safe. What a dumbass!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

lancelot wrote:

Sujoy wrote:U.S Navy engineer arrested for selling classified information pertaining to nuclear submarines to France
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10513081/US-Navy-engineer-admits-selling-nuclear-submarine-secrets-foreign-country-turning-wife.html

He wanted to sell it to France. He sent data on the Virginia submarine propulsion system to the French Embassy and they turned his information in to the US FBI. From then on his contact was with an FBI special agent. Eventually he got arrested.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/jonathan-diana-toebbe-spy-trial-espionage.html

The idiot could of went to the Chinese Embassy and would of been safe. What a dumbass!

Chinese ambassy is under constant surveillance. As soon as you go there they have you in their database and look at your profil. A guy working on nuclear submarine hoing there will ring all the alarms and be arrested as soon as he goes out.

Isos wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

lancelot wrote:

Sujoy wrote:U.S Navy engineer arrested for selling classified information pertaining to nuclear submarines to France
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10513081/US-Navy-engineer-admits-selling-nuclear-submarine-secrets-foreign-country-turning-wife.html

He wanted to sell it to France. He sent data on the Virginia submarine propulsion system to the French Embassy and they turned his information in to the US FBI. From then on his contact was with an FBI special agent. Eventually he got arrested.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/jonathan-diana-toebbe-spy-trial-espionage.html

The idiot could of went to the Chinese Embassy and would of been safe. What a dumbass!

Chinese ambassy is under constant surveillance. As soon as you go there they have you in their database and look at your profil. A guy working on nuclear submarine hoing there will ring all the alarms and be arrested as soon as he goes out.

US embassies do these same shenanigans all over the world, and there's a thing called 'doubles' and 'look-a-likes' and the art of misdirection. Besides the FBI was contacted by the French Embassy to know what was going on, they haven't said the FBI were aware of this espionage prior the French Embassy informing them. His big mistake was not realizing France is a NATO member, a vassal and a colony of the United States.

I agree with you. But if he went to the chinese ambassy he would have ended the same way. He is a pretty dumb guy. US schoolar system, he doesn't even know where France is. Probably sees french as foes because of french bashing on US media and forums.

Oh those inconvenient documents squirreled away in archives with 30 year secrecy that they thought would be plenty long enough      

David P. Goldman
@davidpgoldman
·
Feb 18
Breaking: German press uncovers smoking-gun document from 1991 proving that Russia was promised no expansion of NATO eastwards in return for German reunification. This is all over German media -- haven't seen it elsewhere, yet.

Yandex from the German at https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article236986765/Nato-Osterweiterung-Archivfund-bestaetigt-Sicht-der-Russen.html

"We have made it clear that we will not extend NATO beyond the Elbe," wrote the German diplomat Jürgen Chrobog about a meeting of the USA, Great Britain, France and Germany in March 1991. This document confirms the Russian view on eastern enlargement.

A note from the British National Archives, which has only just emerged, supports the Russian claim that the West has violated promises made in 1990 by expanding NATO to the East. This is reported by the "Spiegel".

The US political scientist Joshua Shifrinson has found the document, which was previously classified as secret. It is about a meeting of the Political Directors of the Foreign Ministries of the USA, Great Britain, France and Germany in Bonn on March 6, 1991. The topic was the security of Poland and other Eastern European states. A Political Director heads the Political Department in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and is considered the closest adviser to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

At the beginning of the 90s, Federal Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher (left) negotiated the terms of German unification and NATO's eastward expansion

Source: pa/dpa/Michael Jung

Bonn's representative Jürgen Chrobog stated at the time, according to the note: "We made it clear in the two-plus-four negotiations that we are not extending NATO beyond the Elbe. We cannot therefore offer NATO membership to Poland and the others.“

The British, French and Americans also rejected NATO membership for the Eastern Europeans. US Representative Raymond Seitz said: "We have made it clear to the Soviet Union – at two-plus-four- as well as other talks – that we will not take advantage of the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe.“ Two years later, the Americans corrected their policy.


EDIT

Moon of Alabama
@MoonofA
·
22h
In 1989/90 Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner said similar.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Then NATO expanded.

Oh dear

France Removes Australia From List of Strategic Partners Over AUKUS Betrayal

https://sputniknews.com/20220222/france-removes-australia-from-list-of-strategic-partners-over-aukus-betrayal-1093273906.html

Here in Germany I have noticed a significant increase of aircraft flights including propeller and helicopter aircraft flying relatively low in the past few weeks. They are not jet fighters, but they might be surveillance aircraft. It seems very unlikely to me that they are suitable for a war against Russia, but in case of civil unrest the traitors in the German government might use them against their own population, e.g. when a supply crisis hits the country.
That is just my speculation, but apart from that it is quite terrifying to live in Europe these days with all the political failure, censorship and the propganda going on.

A classic comment. Sadly too true.

Middle East Observer 2
@ME_Observer_2
·
3h
Replying to
@SamRamani2

NATO is like a cyclone, every country it touches becomes rubble. From Lybia to Syria to Iraq to Yemen. NATO is the definition of death, misery, poverty, and famine. An alliance of global pirates and terrorists that brag about beheading and lynching foreign leaders on TV.

A bit on the value, if any, of Article 5.

Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,

On Thursday, a group of Republicans introduced a bill in the House and Senate that would reaffirm NATO’s Article 5 does not override congressional war powers. The effort was led by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Reps. Chip Roy (R-TX) and Warren Davidson (R-OH).

"I introduced a resolution reasserting that Article 5 of the NATO Treaty does not supersede Congress’s responsibility to declare war or authorize military force before engaging in hostilities," Paul wrote in Responsible Statecraft.

NATO’s Article 5 outlines mutual defense commitments of the 31-member alliance but does not automatically mean the US must intervene militarily if a NATO ally comes under attack.

"For decades, many legislators have incorrectly interpreted Article 5 as an obligation that unquestionably commits the United States to provide military support should a NATO ally be attacked," he wrote.

Article 5 states: "The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force."

Paul noted that while NATO members are required to assist each other in the event of an attack, military action is not mandated. "Furthermore, Article 11 of the NATO Treaty states that the provisions of the Treaty are to be carried out in accordance with each country’s respective constitutional processes," he wrote.

Meanwhile, from the neocon side of the GOP, a response:

The legislation Paul introduced would express that Article 5 does not "supersede the constitutional requirement that Congress declare war or authorize the use of military force prior to the United States engaging in hostilities.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fierce-congressional-debate-over-whether-tactical-nuclear-attack-would-trigger-article-5

Rand Paul was a man backer of this? Wtf

That's called meddling in presidential elections by spreading fake news to discredite a candidat. Will that guy be sanctioned by the US treasory ?