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    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor

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    limb

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    Post  limb Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:22 pm

    Would the mig-41 be able to generate a plasma stealth field?
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:25 am

    I am curious, how would an interceptor operate in tomorrow's world with hypersonic and stealth weapons.

    The OTH radar that would be detecting incoming weapons should detect attacks from 6,000km plus, so even with hypersonic weapons there would be some warning time.

    Interceptors are one layer of the defence but certainly not the only layer.

    Hypersonic threats will be flying at high altitude and should be easy to detect at extended ranges even by conventional radar... by that time most will be adapted to recognise very very fast moving targets.

    In case of a large scale cruise missile or hypersonic attack, by the time it would take the pilots to get into the plane and in the air, identify targets and shoot the hypersonic or stealth strike might as well be completed.

    Even during peace time there are MiG-31s sitting on the flight line armed with real missiles and fully fuelled ready to go at a moments notice... in times of real tension they would likely be sitting in the aircraft connected to external power so they could sit there for hours... or take off and get topped up with fuel by inflight refuelling tankers...

    At top speed the MiG-31 would be flying for a total of less than 30 minutes... 750km out and 750km back at mach 2.4 to 2.6.

    Any indication whether the Mig-41 is going to be a drone at some point in the future? That would significantly reduce the time needed to get in the air.

    Very much doubt this... would be a very big aircraft.... current MiG-31 is about 50 tons... the MiG-41 is likely to be 60 to 80 tons fully loaded and fuelled up.

    Also, how are the Russians planning to first identify then get a weapons lock signal on stealth cruise missiles as well as hypersonic ones?

    Anything coming over the pole heading towards Russia could be considered hostile... especially if it is stealthy or hypersonic.

    I suspect the aircraft would fire its missile in a general direction and use a fairly strong radar on its missile to get a weapons lock once close the target. This is going to make the armament of the aircraft very expensive as well which is probably why the missile is going to have multiple heads.

    I suspect the first aircraft to operate these massively improved Photonic Radar systems will be the MiG-31 and MiG-41 and Su-57M.

    In all cases, after firing a salvo of cruise missiles from a ship an adversary could immediately spread out the missiles kilometers apart to spread the risk of interception. This can also make the Mig's main weapon an overkill.

    An R-37M with 5 separate missile warheads will fly a lofted flight trajectory... it will be launched from about 20km altitude and likely transit towards the distant target at 30km altitude or higher... from such a height having subsonic cruise missiles 30km or more below it I would be pretty sure each warhead could lock on to and reach targets 20-30km apart horizontally rather easily... but more likely a string of missiles launched will be a long line of missiles which the R-37 could release as it approaches so the missiles could drop down and then chase from behind out of view of any forward facing sensors and with a clear view of the engine powering the missile.

    I think such plane should allow to attack the carriers at big distance, and also take care of space assets

    Important to recognise that any western ship in the Arctic ocean launching cruise missiles will be engaged by MiG-31Ks rather than MiG-31BMs, and there no doubt will be a MiG-31K replacement in the form of a MIG-41 optimised for destroying enemy ships using hypersonic long range anti ship missiles.

    Runways in the far north means the interceptors and anti ship aircraft can be located much closer to the incoming threats than is currently possible.

    Detection of missiles is done by the Voronezh type for ballistic (high flying) targets and for the Konteyner for low flying ones. And still with thousands of km of detection range, it will be difficult to react for some targets of extremely high speed.

    Except the missiles of extremely high speed are easy to spot because they have to fly high... the problem is not spotting them... the problem is shooting them down, which they are working on now.

    [quoteI agree that the multiple warhead missile is the weapon needed for dealing with massive missile attacks. The spreading of the attacking CMs is a given and the R33/R-37M missile used against them is clearly not efficient for dealing with many hundreds of targets. With the same booster of one R-37 you could propel several small missiles that could be more than enough to take down a CM.[/quote]

    They could develop a version of Zircon or Kinzhal that carries a bundle of 20 plus small interceptor air to air missiles and releases them in flight from very high altitudes and speeds... They will have MiG-41 versions of the MiG-31K for attacking ships and once the ships are all destroyed they can start hitting the missiles they might have launched...

    Would the mig-41 be able to generate a plasma stealth field?

    At mach 4.2 probably not naturally, but then it would not benefit from such a thing. A MiG-31 and MiG-41 will carry enormous powerful radars that scan for targets and threats... plasma stealth fields would make it blind, imagine a blind Hawk or Eagle or Owl?

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    Post  Kiko Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:55 pm

    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 20 0cbb1040c74eeac702696da8cd3d8a41

    RUSSIA IS DEVELOPING AN INTERCEPTOR FOR THE DEMOLITION OF A US SATELLITE CONSTELLATION
    January 31, 2021

    It will soon be unsafe for US military intelligence satellites to hover over Russian territory.

    The state corporation “Rostec” on January 22nd 2021, in its publication, literally reported the following: “The development of the next generation of fighter jets/interceptors has already begun. The project of a promising long-range intercept aircraft complex (PAK DP) is at the stage of development work.”

    This article was published just in time for the holiday – the Day of Aviation of the Russian Air Defense Forces and was devoted to the modernisation of the MiG-31 interceptor fighter to the MiG-31BM version.

    After the announcement of further work on the PAK DP project, a number of publications appeared in the Russian press that questioned the need for this development, since the interception tasks can be assigned to the fighters already in service, and the funds allocated for the PAK DP project can be redistributed to other, more urgent purposes.

    Let’s try to understand this issue. To date, the tasks of intercepting and destroying various air targets (bombers, cruise missiles, reconnaissance aircraft, refueling aircraft and fighters) in any conditions and at any altitude are worked on by the MiG-31 supersonic all-weather long-range interceptor fighter. The MiG-31 can destroy even low-flying satellite objects.

    This jet was adopted in 1981 and was produced until 1994. A total of 519 aircraft of various modifications were produced.

    Since 2008, there has been an active process of upgrading the MiG-31 to the MiG-31BM version, which should be completed by 2023. 114 combat vehicles will be updated. Thanks to the new Zaslon-AM radar, the aircraft can detect air targets at a range of up to 320 kilometres and hit them at a range of up to 280 kilometres. It became possible to simultaneously track up to 10 targets and hit 6 targets with missiles.

    Importantly, in the MiG-31BM version, the aircraft has turned into a multifunctional combat vehicle. It can interact with anti-aircraft missile systems of air defences, as well as direct guided missiles at air targets from other fighter jets that are approaching the enemy at the range of destruction by missile weapons in a radar silence mode. In addition, the MiG-31BM is able to play the role of a kind of air command post for coordinating the actions of other types of fighter jets whose radars have less power.

    Due to the modernisation of avionics and weapons, the effectiveness of the MiG-31BM compared to the MiG-31 increased by 2.6-fold, but, according to experts, this modernisation potential of the system is actually exhausted. The designers believe that the upgrade to the MiG-31BM version will increase the service life of the aircraft by 10 years.

    Thus, the MiG-31BM will be able to operate until 2033. It turns out that until this time, the troops should receive a new combat vehicle capable of solving long-range interception tasks, with higher flight and combat characteristics.

    The most optimal solution is the project of a promising long-range interception aircraft complex (PAK DP). Of course, the designers do not disclose all the details of this development. But still, bit by bit in the open press, one can collect information and come to certain conclusions based on it.

    What’s very important for the PAK DP project is that the aircraft will not be created from scratch, but on the basis of the MiG-31. We remind you that 519 MiG-31 aircraft of various modifications were produced. This fighter jet/interceptor has a body made of titanium alloy, the resource of which is almost inexhaustible. Conclusion: the MiG-31 airframe will be the basis for the PAK DP.

    Thus, the question arises about the appropriate modern contents of the new fighter jet/interceptor. We believe that the PAK DP should receive a new generation radar – a radiophoton radar with a high level of efficiency. The efficiency of a radiophoton radar is estimated at 70%, and conventional radars have an efficiency of no more than 40%.

    It is obvious that the PAK DP will receive an electro-remote control system instead of a cable control system. The jet will become more manoeuvrable. In addition, this will be a step towards the unmanned version of the PAK DP.

    Of course, the new fighter jet/interceptor will be equipped with new or improved engines. Only they will be able to provide it with a speed of Mach 4.3 (more than 4500 km/h), and according to some sources – up to Mach 5.

    It should be noted that the maximum permissible flight speed of the MiG-31BM reaches 3,400 km/h, which allows them to reach the launch line of cruise missiles by strategic enemy bombers in the shortest possible time. And for the PAK DA, this indicator will be higher by at least 30% – 4500 km/h.

    The R-37M long-range air-to-air missile has a maximum range of 300 kilometers. The combat range of the MiG-31BM is 720 kilometers. With the R-37 missile, the MiG-31BM, taking into account its announced combat range, can hit an aerial target at a range of up to 1020 kilometres from the take-off airfield.

    This significantly exceeds the range of ground-based air defence systems. For example, the range of the S-400 air defence system reaches 400 kilometres, and the S-500 “Prometey” air defence system – 600 kilometres. Thus, in a number of combat missions, ground-based air defence cannot replace a long-range fighter jet/interceptor due to the shorter range of destruction.

    That is precisely why, at the end of its service life, the MiG-31BM should be replaced by a PAK DP that can quickly reach the desired area and use missile weapons on strategic bombers before they launch cruise missiles, and if necessary, hit the cruise missiles themselves.

    The ability to reach high altitudes up to near space will allow PAK DA to work on satellites. The demolition of the enemy’s satellite grouping can deprive them of their eyes and ears, and lead to loss of control.

    Front-line fighter jets are not able to work on long-range interception tasks, because their flight characteristics do not allow this: they do not have such a high speed and a large combat range. Therefore, we will not compare them with the MiG-31BM. But take the latest Russian fifth-generation fighter, the Su-57. Let’s compare the flight characteristics of the Su-57 fighter with the characteristics of the MiG-31BM interceptor.

    The maximum speed of the Su-57 is 2600 km/h, and the MiG-31BM is 3400 km/h. The practical ceiling of the Su-57 is 20,000 meters, the MiG-31BM is 20,600 meters. The practical range of the Su-57 is in the range of 2000-4300 kilometres (depending on the flight mode), the average range of the Su-57 is 2700 kilometres, the MiG-31BM is 1450 kilometres.

    Thus, the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jet in terms of flight performance surpasses the long-standing MiG-31BM in only one parameter – flight range. With the PAK DP, this parameter will be significantly improved.

    To date, the troops have received one Su-57. Until 2028, 76 combat vehicles of this brand should be in service. It is obvious that such a number of Su-57 aircraft will not be enough to work on tasks for the main purpose and to perform tasks for long-range interception.

    The flight characteristics of the Su-57 and the estimated number of these aircraft in service suggest that our Armed Forces need a separate combat aircraft – a long-range fighter jet/interceptor.

    According to “MiG”, the PAK DP will use new types of aircraft weapons, it will be created with the use of new stealth technologies, will be able to transport the necessary number of weapons and operate at a very large interception radius.

    Thus, the need for the further work of “MiG” on the project of a promising long-range interception aircraft complex (PAK DP) is not in doubt. Using the MiG-31 fighter as the basis for development will not require a large amount of financial resources to complete this urgent task.

    Aleksandr Vladimirov

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/russia-is-developing-an-interceptor-for-the-demolition-of-a-us-satellite-constellation/
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:55 am

    They were able to save a lot of time and money by making the MiG-31 essentially a two seat MiG-25... mainly because they were both intended to fly at similar speeds and similar distances against similar threats.

    The requirements for the MiG-41 require better range and much higher top speed, which will mean different engines and a larger aircraft.

    I honestly don't think they will achieve the required flight speed using the same airframe layout.

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    Post  LMFS Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:33 am

    I also don't think it can be the same airframe if the requirements are so different. As to the time still in service for the MiG-31, what I have read is exactly the opposite from what the author says, that is, that the modernization potential of the platform is still there. Considering the time needed to develop and test a new plane, plus the time needed to produce enough numbers to substitute older models, I don't think the MiG-31 is going to leave service much before 2040, and in fact I see logic in both planes operating in parallel to a certain extent. A better radar + supercruising engines + MFRK-DP are the obvious elements that could increase substantially the capacity of the plane without needing to heavily modify the airframe, the first two would be just natural takeovers from the PAK-FA program.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:54 pm

    I agree, there will come a time when the threat is hypersonic manouvering missiles and single orbit low flying satellite weapons where a MiG-41 will be needed, but the subsonic long range aircraft with the subsonic cruise missiles and even a few supersonic cruise missiles can always be handled by the MiG-31.

    A larger faster higher flying aircraft could lob anti ship missiles to greater ranges and speeds, but even a subsonic aircraft can launch these missiles at targets beyond the range of their current air defence missiles can reach the launch aircraft anyway.

    I am looking forward to see what design they come up with.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:18 pm

    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/russia-researching-future-interceptor-technologies-new-light

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    Post  LMFS Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:27 pm

    Hey that is a very good link, not only about PAK-DP but also LMFS thumbsup
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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:50 pm

    Unfortunately, there is still a long way to go to PAK DP. cry
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:26 am

    The MiG-31 is currently doing a good job.

    If the MiG-41 is entering service next year or the year after it wont and cant be that much better than the current MiG-31, so it is a rather good thing it is going to take a while.... it should be well worth the wait.

    The comments in the article about the Russian economy and how its current state suggests it wont be able to afford a light stealth fighter are as boring as they are amusing.

    It seems Piotr things there might be a flu pandemic every year for the next ten years to effect the Russian economy and prevent spending on new aircraft...
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    Post  LMFS Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:The MiG-31 is currently doing a good job.

    If the MiG-41 is entering service next year or the year after it wont and cant be that much better than the current MiG-31, so it is a rather good thing it is going to take a while.... it should be well worth the wait.

    The comments in the article about the Russian economy and how its current state suggests it wont be able to afford a light stealth fighter are as boring as they are amusing.

    It seems Piotr things there might be a flu pandemic every year for the next ten years to effect the Russian economy and prevent spending on new aircraft...

    Seems to be the retardation quota you need to publish on Western media, but other than that the guy makes very good research of what has been published and is well connected. Definitely worth reading.

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