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    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:14 pm

    Backman wrote:Maybe this was discussed already.

    But is there any way that they could just somehow use a modified variant of the su 57 for this role ? The su 57 is such a good airframe.

    Maybe make a side by side cockpit for it. su 34 style.  Or just an in line 2 seater like the FGFA was supposed to be.

    Is the su 57 just plain too small for the role ?

    The Su-57 has some interceptor characteristics, but the PAK-DP seems to be a pretty extreme design that goes well beyond MiG-31 so yes, it seems not very well suited as it is for the kind of requirements that have been suggested.
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    Post  Backman Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:35 am

    GarryB wrote:Agree with KVS, the Su-57 design is not designed for top speed... it is designed for manouver performance... which is not really important to an interceptor, and stealth, which again is not important for an interceptor that will have an enormous radar operating most of the time to find targets and check airspace for threats.

    If they were going to base the MiG-41 on an existing design I would say the best choice would be the Tu-22M3 with much more powerful engines and larger internal weapons bay and a huge AESA nose mounted radar with the swing wings for low drag high speed flight... obviously made of different materials to take the heat at such speeds, but also with excellent range performance too...

    Perhaps a super cruising Tu-160P... 45 tons would be a lot of AAMs carried internally...

    Swing wings would be a natural for the Mig-41 yes. Cool and calm take-off and landing speeds. And sharp as an arrow when you let er rip. Plus the extra maintenance wouldn't be a big deal because the jet will always live at home.dunno  It wont be deployed to Syria or anything like that.

    It would be cool to see a new swing wing aircraft but the concept seems to be out of favor. I doubt we will see it.

    GarryB wrote
    For rather higher speeds I think a new shape in addition with new materials and new engines will be required and I suspect internal weapon carriage to reduce drag will be considered too.

    Modern digitally controlled variable intakes would go a long way.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:58 pm

    Maybe this was discussed already.

    But is there any way that they could just somehow use a modified variant of the su 57 for this role ? The su 57 is such a good airframe.

    Maybe make a side by side cockpit for it. su 34 style. Or just an in line 2 seater like the FGFA was supposed to be.

    Is the su 57 just plain too small for the role ?

    The Su-57 is optimised for manouver performance as well as range and also stealth.

    The replacement for the MiG-31 needs speed above all else and flight range at enormous speed means it needs lots of fuel and a high speed efficient propulsion system.

    Su-57 is an excellent design, but simply not fast enough.

    Powerfull engines to light up a huge radar on the nose.

    Well that raises another issue I didn't consider... with turbojets idling at top speed with bypass air flowing through a ramjet to power the aircraft along at mach 4.2... then the MiG-41 is going to struggle to generate the electrical power needed to run a rather large AESA radar or three, not to mention other potential systems and bits of equipment...


    Swing wings would be a natural for the Mig-41 yes. Cool and calm take-off and landing speeds. And sharp as an arrow when you let er rip. Plus the extra maintenance wouldn't be a big deal because the jet will always live at home.dunno It wont be deployed to Syria or anything like that.

    It would be cool to see a new swing wing aircraft but the concept seems to be out of favor. I doubt we will see it.

    They have rebuilt a huge forge to make enormous titanium box structures for swing wing aircraft in the form of the Tu-160... it does not need to be identical or that size, but they could certainly make a large aircraft with swing wings.

    With a lifting body design as it gets faster and faster the need for "wing" lift would be smaller and smaller so a lifting body design with swing wings would be very interesting... especially if they could swing away completely straight back and offer very very low drag at top speed...

    I look forward to see what designs they could come up with.

    I remember in the 1980s I used to design all sorts of stuff with pencil and paper and one of my favourites based on the forward swept wing designs like the F-29 ( essentially a forward swept wing F-20), combined with my favourite aircraft of the time... the MiG-23... but with two widely spaced engines and a new lifting body with forward swept swing wings that can be angled from straight sideways for takeoff to sweeping forward till partially recessing into the fuselage and essentially creating a side fuselage chine like the SR-71 had and lifting body shape and thrust vectoring engines because it had no canards or horizontal tail surfaces... just a single vertical fin... it was not intended for manouver or high angle of attack flight....
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    Post  Arrow Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:29 pm

    Interesting when the first flight of the MiG 41 airframe will take place. There is no information about the work progress.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:44 pm

    Arrow wrote:Interesting when the first flight of the MiG 41 airframe will take place. There is no information about the work progress.

    Like with PAK-DA shape would clue in the competition on potential details so they will keep it on the down low until the last moment

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:19 pm

    Were I tasked with designing a new interceptor I would rather focus on detection capabilities and weapons than increasing the speed, although breaking the sr71 record with a combat aircraft would be rather funny.

    I Would maintain the speed of the Mig-31 and design the aircraft around a very large internal weapons bay capable of carrying multiple Kinzhal sized weapons and some point defence missiles at the same time. The aircraft could use a lifting body to keep the width down to manageable levels and the thing could have multiple large radars giving it 360 degree coverage.

    So essentially a futurised Tu-128 with the Mig-31's speed.

    I do not really see the point in increasing the speed or maneuver performance any further than that of the Mig-31, they will need to build and operate a lot of these aircraft so expensive and unnecessary features like stealth and maneuverability should be dropped in favor of better reliability, longer service life and lower operating costs.
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    Post  LMFS Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:49 pm

    One of the most important roles that the PAK-DP could have is to act as a launcher of ASAT missiles or in general weapons capable of operating in near space, both against incoming HGV, space located ISR assets or ABM systems on orbit, which are going to proliferate massively in the next years since they are the only chance US has of actually countering the new strategic and sub-strategic Russian weapons. Therefore size, speed and ceiling would need to be increased compared to MiG-31, and who knows, maybe both MiGs stay in parallel operation for quite a few years, once they are modernizing the -31 further and producing its engines again. Probably it is no coincidence that the RTA engine capable of 4+ Mach was intended to power a launch vehicle.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:09 am

    Were I tasked with designing a new interceptor I would rather focus on detection capabilities and weapons than increasing the speed, although breaking the sr71 record with a combat aircraft would be rather funny.

    The faster the interceptor travels the further away from Russia the target will be intercepted.

    Get to them early enough in the North and those enemy aircraft might still be outside their cruise missile range of their targets in the south an west of Russia, which means when you shoot down 50 B-52s you will also be shooting down the cruise missiles they are still carrying...

    When a threat is detected the faster you can fly to it the sooner you can deal with that threat.

    I Would maintain the speed of the Mig-31 and design the aircraft around a very large internal weapons bay capable of carrying multiple Kinzhal sized weapons and some point defence missiles at the same time.

    Well the Navy will thank you but the Aerospace defence forces likely wont be as pleased... they would not have said mach 4.2 was the goal if they didn't think they could achieve it... or better it.

    The aircraft could use a lifting body to keep the width down to manageable levels and the thing could have multiple large radars giving it 360 degree coverage.

    They can build AWACS aircraft too... these interceptors don't need to do everything.

    So essentially a futurised Tu-128 with the Mig-31's speed.

    I do not really see the point in increasing the speed or maneuver performance any further than that of the Mig-31, they will need to build and operate a lot of these aircraft so expensive and unnecessary features like stealth and maneuverability should be dropped in favor of better reliability, longer service life and lower operating costs.

    The main reason they want to increase speed is because it would be easy... turbofans and turbojets don't like operating faster than about mach 2.5, but ramjets are only just getting started at such speeds and scramjets really don't have a top speed limit than you have to worry about (the rest of the aircraft will melt before the scramjet starts to struggle with speed in theory).

    You mention Kinzhal... Kinzhal is a solid rocket weapon... its flight parameters are fixed by the rocket motor... there is no throttle, and no variation in its burn rate... all you can change is the angle it is launched at and the altitude and speed it is launched at.

    When launched from the ground as an Iskander missile it is in the thickest air on the planet, so even when burning at full thrust the top speed of the rocket is limited. To maximise range and speed the first thing the rocket does is climb to get to the thinner colder air at high altitude where it can move faster and therefore further, so a lot of rocket fuel energy is used to climb and accelerate up to speed... it gets to mach 7 or 8 when it dives on the target... the advantage of climbing after launch is that some of the energy used to climb can be recovered when you descend again on the target.

    The problem is that energy is lost in heat and noise.

    The Iskander has a range of less than 500km because it burns energy climbing but it also burns energy manouvering as it approaches the target to evade interception by SAMs and AAMs.... which is why it was chosen as an air launched anti ship missile because it is already designed to fly high and fast and to evade air defence systems.

    The big thing of course is that when it is launched from a MiG-31K it will have flown 600-700km away from its airfield closer to its target, and more importantly instead of starting off still and in the thickest part of the atmosphere, it instead starts moving at about 2 times the speed of sound at an altitude likely to be 15-18km altitude... this means instead of using solid rocket fuel energy to lift its own weight and get moving all that energy goes into going even faster and climbing higher so it can climb to a higher altitude and it will be moving faster too, so it can fly much much further.

    The point is that if it was flying at mach 4.2 and at 30km altitude the same missile could probably travel 3,000km without any modification.

    If launched from the slower Tu-22M3 you have the opposite problem that its range would probably go down to 1,000km-1,500km because it will be launched at lower flight speeds and lower altitude... the Backfire has a service ceiling of 14km so it would probably launch at 10km altitude and mach 1.6 or so, but it could carry 4 of them which makes it still rather potent...

    The point is that new engines for much higher speed are being developed.

    If these new engines and new high temperature materials were not available the only thing you could do to it would be to make it longer ranged which means more fuel which just makes it bigger and heavier, but in this case what we are talking about is taking engines that are on the edge of what they can achieve in terms of flight speed, and to add propulsion systems at the start of their speed range limits at mach 4.2 with potential future capacity for much more.

    The extra speed will give existing weapons greater range and allow greater distances to be covered faster, and in terms of launching at targets in space it is a real boost in speed and likely altitude.

    It is like the question... why bother with Armata when you have upgraded T-90s... well because it is likely to be a completely new design of a new generation which is going to raise the bar and increase capability significantly...
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    Post  dino00 Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:35 pm

    Development of a new generation fighter-interceptor began in Russia

    MOSCOW, January 24 - RIA Novosti. Rostec State Corporation announced the start of development of a new generation fighter-interceptor.
    "The project of a promising long-range interception aircraft complex under the symbol MiG-41 is at the stage of development work," the company added.


    https://ria.ru/20210124/rostekh-1594369674.html

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:08 am

    Speculative thread on Twitter about PAK-DP, I have not checked the state contract but I found the information interesting:

    https://twitter.com/SlavaTheThird/status/1351883359358771200

    There is a research on PAK DP (aka MFRK DP = "multi-functional long-range interception missile system) for at least 2 years.
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 EsLaixqXUAQbiaU?format=png&name=small

    The MiG Design Bureau designated it "izdelie 41", so even officials call it the MiG-41, although it is incorrect a bit.
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 EsLa4joXcAoCtZC?format=jpg&name=small

    https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?regNumber=32009404905

    There is a bit of information you could find in the tender' documents on the Public Procurement website.

    It says the jet will have a two-fin vertical tail and 3 control surfaces-elevons for each wing.

    There will also be mysterious "TPK", consisting of the 1st, 2nd and side sections, released in flight.

    "Wing's Leading Edge Heat Shield"? "Roll Trimmers"? I don't know.

    Of course, the plane will be hypersonic. It would be interesting to know which engine is planned to be used there.

    via https://mai.ru/upload/iblock/99b/proekt-_molot_-giperzvukovogo-bespilotnogo-samoleta_razgonshchika-s-kombinirovannoy-ekrannoy-turbo_pryamotochnoy-silovoy-ustanovkoy.pdf

    Perhaps there will be a hybrid powerplant, like this one.
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 EsLxXASW4AAkojL?format=jpg&name=small

    Since the PAK DP/MFRK DP is a complex, a new rocket is also being developed. It is based on the "izdelie 180"/R-77M with multiple warheads.
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 EsLyBh-XcA8uP0z?format=jpg&name=small

    The title image is the Soviet project "izdelie 301" by MiG. All images are for illustrative purposes only and are not related to the real "MiG-41" project.

    Linked info in the thread about MFRK-DP:

    16. Feb. 2020
    a decision was made to develop a long-range intercept missile (MFRK DP) for the MiG-31 and the promising MiG-41, capable of hitting hypersonic ammunition. "Theoretical studies have been carried out on an ultra-long-range air-to-air missile with a multiple warhead."

    Now the characteristics are being determined According to Izvestia, one of the candidates for the role of a submunition (head units) is the K-77M.
    The heavy high-speed ammunition will deliver a warhead with several air-to-air missiles to a distance of several hundred kilometers.

    Then they will separate from the carrier and begin to search and attack targets on their own. An active homing head with its own radar will help them in this.

    https://iz.ru/972679/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/odnim-makhom-rossiia-razrabatyvaet-oruzhie-protiv-giperzvukovykh-raket

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:20 am

    LMFS wrote:...The MiG Design Bureau designated it "izdelie 41", so even officials call it the MiG-41, although it is incorrect a bit.
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 EsLa4joXcAoCtZC?format=jpg&name=small...

    Alright, they might be on to something this time

    Similar setup was originally proposed for interceptor derivative of Tu-160 but USSR went tits-up but I can definitely see them going back to it, it's a solid idea (I was posting about old project but couldn't find a decent image, if it even exists)

    Two monster engines on top not only provide speed but also help with stealth and leave loads of room in the fuselage for weapons bays

    And it also has nice comfy pressurised cockpit just like Su-34 (been suggesting this myself if I can shamelessly brag Cool )

    Also that cluster missile looks sweeeet





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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:42 am

    The model is the MiG izd. 301, there are sources on the web but it would go against the forum rules if I link them...

    From paralay:

    Hypersonic interceptor/bomber.

    During 1975-1989 under direction of N.Z.Matjuka development of a hypersonic airplane on hydrocarbonic fuel was conducted.
    There has passed successful protection of preliminary designs two various to destination versions of a product, and on two alternative versions reports have been presented.
    Under direction of the assistant to chief designer P.A.Shustera the аван-project of an airplane on which two kinds of fuel (hydrogen — on high speeds, kerosene — on low) were applied prepared.
    It is known at least about two themes:
    - Hypersonic interceptor/bomber 301/321;
    - Orbiter MiG-2000;
    The information on an airplane 301/321 is extremely poor, the machine continues a line of development МиГ-25П/Р.
    In 1997 КБ the MiG was declared protection of the project of a hypersonic airplane with the maximal speed more than 5000 km/h.
    It was planned, that the airplane will exist in two versions: the scout/bomber with rockets a class "air-surface", placed in a compartment of the arms equipped by means of electronic reconnaissance and radars of a sideways view and an interceptor.
    The first flight could be accomplished not earlier the end of the ninetieth years.

    Length of 40.0 m
    Scope of 12.5/29.0 m
    Wing area 110 кв.м
    The maximal takeoff weight of 90000 kg
    Normal takeoff weight of 75000 kg
    Engines 2 * 30000 кгс
    The maximal speed of 5300 km/h
    Cruiser speed 4250 Km/h (М=4) at the altitude 25-27 km
    Service ceiling of 37000 m
    Range maximal 5000 - 7000 km
    ----

    So this is a bomber or reconnaissance plane, but I think it has a perfectly logical layout for the job of a extremely fast, long range interceptor with specially good capability as launcher for ASAT weapons or to carry very bog very long range AAMs. Russia is very big and this concept makes sense to me to...
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:21 am

    Those truncated r-77 missiles on the MFRK-DP speculative drawing look an awful lot like the ones all the dumb western sites said we're for the side bays. Remember the image? It was three missiles. An r-77-1, an r-74, and that short r-77 everyone was speculating about? I still think it is a Russian answer to the new peregrine missile, meant to fit more into internal bays.

    Maybe those would be good choices for the multi missile
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:53 am

    The basic shape of that plane looks awful... it is clearly optimised for stealth which is ridiculous because in terms of heat signature it will glow like a lightbulb... the hard corners look very unaerodynamic... more like F-117 than MiG-41.

    The basic shape is the same as a similar model revealed in the 1990s from MiG as a new interceptor though it often got mixed up in reporting as being the Tupolev option for the S-60 strike bomber replacement for the Tu-22M and Su-34 that never happened.

    The MiG in question is the MiG-701... it was supposed to have a flight range at supersonic speeds of about 7,000km, but mach 2 supersonic speeds not faster, and at subsonic speeds it was supposed to be able to fly around 11,000km range...

    This is what was released at the time... think it is a Piotr Butowski drawing from memory...

    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 1e316010

    Later images of plastic models appeared and they were just similar to the above.

    Do a search these days on the MiG-701 and you get all sorts of modern images totally different aesthetically from the original model but of course new design fashions are normal and to be expected.

    It certainly wont be faceted like the image shown in the above posts.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:57 am

    Considering they are talking about it being for anti hypersonic target use I would think that perhaps the S-500 might use at least one type of missile that uses that feature... it is a 600km range missile giving it the chance to hit more than one target at a time without making it a nuke would be interesting...

    The replacement for the R-37M probably also has multiple missile payload warheads too for much the same reason... huge solid rocket booster to take the weapon all that way to shoot down just one target might be needed sometimes but most of the time would be a bit of a waste.
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    Post  marcellogo Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:38 am

    Speculating on form of the future interceptor is OK but let's return on firm ground for a moment, please.

    "Begin of developmental work" mean that they are going to realize a prototype instead of just working on designer's desks and CAD files?
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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:59 am

    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 Eske1y10
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 Eske3o10
    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 19 Eskedl10
    Some fan art
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:45 pm

    My opinion :

    - three engines with 2 for slow speed (take off landing patrol) one ramjet for interception.

    - 2500km range

    - Datalink with OTH radars.

    - Byelka band radar with bigher antenna. 700km range against 5m2 so b52 or transport aircraft can be spotted at 1000km. Instrumented range of 1500km.

    - L band radar with 1000km range.

    - 1000 km range missiles derived from S-500 missiles with ground attack capability with GLONASS

    - 1000km range multipurpose IIR missiles guided by ground based OTH radar through datalink bypassing stealth of B2/b21 and capacity to attack ship or land targets.

    - design as simple as on mig-25/35 with some stealth shapes.
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:48 pm

    marcellogo wrote:Speculating on form of the future interceptor is OK but let's return on firm ground for a moment, please.

    "Begin of developmental work" mean that they are going to realize a prototype instead of just working on designer's desks and CAD files?

    Essentially. Cause a few years ago they announced initial design work (CAD and or just design). So now they are at the process of building a model.

    It's going to look closer to MiG-31. I recall them saying it takes inspiration from what they learned over MiG-31 upgrades.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:43 am

    They can't reuse old models for replacements of the MiG-31 simply because most of them were of similar speed at about mach 2.5 or so, the designs were mainly focussed on extending range by making the aircraft bigger.

    They don't need more than two engines I would think but some clever arrangement where bypass air can be used as a ramjet in the same way the SR-71 used its engines would make a lot of sense because essentially two turbojet engines were placed inside two ramjet engines... when using one the other type don't make sense and vice versa.

    It would be a bit like having a turboprop turbofan where essentially a turbofan turns a big propeller on the front... for takeoff and landing the main prop is used and is ideal for low subsonic cruising, but when higher speed is needed the main big props fold away and the engine becomes a turbofan engine for higher speed and higher altitude operation.

    Except instead of a propeller and turbofan it is a turbofan and ramjet.

    Obviously new designs will have to take into account new propulsion ideas and also new weapons in use and in development.
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    Post  franco Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:50 pm

    Transparency and secrecy. New details of the PAK DP project

    In recent days, there have been several interesting reports about the "Advanced Long-Range Intercept Aviation Complex" (PAK DP) project . So, it was announced the start of development work, and in addition, some organizational and technical details were freely available. The available information does not yet provide a complete picture, but reveals its main points.

    According to the latest data

    A few days ago, specialized resources drew attention to two state purchases posted on the state website of the same name. The subject of interest was procurement No. 31908747186 "Execution of works by the mid-point of the R&D code" PAK DP-Vympel "dated December 31, 2019 and No. 32009404905" Study of the aerodynamic characteristics of the PAK DP model in ADT T-102 "dated August 14, 2020 It should be noted that these documents were known before, but only now they were opened on the official resource.

    RSK MiG was the customer for both purchases. Various documents have been published containing unclassified information of an organizational and technical nature. In particular, it is known from them that in the MiG corporation the new PAK DP project bears the working designation "Product 41", which correlates with the well-known unofficial MiG-41 index.

    Literally the next day after the publication of the two purchases, on January 22, Rostec announced interesting information. The publication dedicated to the Air Defense Force Aviation Day disclosed the current work and plans for the development of the MiG-31 interceptor aircraft fleet. In addition, the development of the next generation interceptor was briefly mentioned. It is reported that the PAK DP project is at the stage of development work.

    From official sources

    It should be recalled that the management of the RAC "MiG" and unofficial sources of the Russian media have previously repeatedly touched upon the development of the PAK DP and disclosed this or that information. Some of this information was subsequently confirmed and allows for a more complete picture.

    In mid-2017, the management of the development organization said that the new type of interceptor would be able to reach speeds of more than M = 4. There was also information about the potential to intercept objects in low orbits. In the middle of 2019, RSK MiG said that the new aircraft will be built using modern technologies, and one of the advantages over the current MiG-31 will be an increased interception radius.

    To the purchase dated August 14, 2020, a terms of reference for one of the previous studies was attached, giving some details. In 2017-18. The Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, commissioned by RSK MiG, has already carried out an integral part of the research work (SCH NIR) to study the PAK DP model in a wind tunnel. Then the product "41" passed more than 240 tests in different modes. A program of such tests was attached to the terms of reference.

    In the draft procurement contract No. 31908747186, it was mentioned that by the end of 2019 it was necessary to justify the scientific and technical concept of the PAK DP. This work included determining the prospects of the PAK DP product itself, analyzing foreign developments, assessing the groundwork for the implementation of the project, finding ways to integrate the interceptor into the videoconferencing system, etc.

    Appearance issues

    In the terms of reference for research at TsAGI, it was noted that the aerodynamic appearance of the model "41" is not secret. Images of the product were not shown, but some of its features are clear from the test program. Other features of the interceptor are still in question.

    Apparently, the PAK DP will receive a combined airframe of metal and composite parts. It is possible to use the "tailless" or "duck" scheme. The tail unit will only include a pair of rudder keels. The wing mechanization consists of three sections of elevons on each plane and three-section braking surfaces.

    Other aspects of the PAK DP project have not yet been disclosed to the desired extent, although there are various estimates and forecasts. So, it is obvious that a fundamentally new sighting and navigation system will be created for the 41 aircraft, surpassing the equipment of the existing MiG-31, incl. the latest modification of "BM". The basis of this complex will be a radar of an unknown type. In terms of its parameters, it should surpass the serial product "Zaslon". With the same or greater range, this station must detect and track stealthy targets. It is also necessary to increase the speed of on-board systems and full integration into modern and promising command and control systems.

    Past claims of speeds over 3-4M indicate the need for a new turbojet engine. At the same time, the use of one of the existing or developed samples with suitable characteristics is not excluded. In particular, at the level of rumors circulated messages about the possible integration of "Product 30", developed for the PAK FA.

    The question of armaments remains open. Like its predecessor, the MiG-31, the new PAK DP should carry a specialized long-range intercept missile. About a year ago, it was reported that the development of such a product began and is being carried out within the framework of the project "Multifunctional long-range intercept missile system" (MRK DP). During its creation, the developments on the existing K-77M medium-range missile can be used.

    The tactical and technical characteristics of the future PAK DP remain unknown, but it was reported that in terms of basic parameters and capabilities, it would surpass the MiG-31. This indicates the need to obtain a speed of at least M = 3, a practical ceiling of more than 20-21 km and a combat radius of over 700-750 km. The main weapon of the MiG-31 is the R-33 air-to-air missile, the latest modification of which has a range of up to 300 km. The new rocket of the MRK DP project should show, at least, not the worst characteristics.

    Transparency and secrecy

    The development of the "Prospective long-range intercept aircraft system" has been going on for several years. New information appears regularly, both from the developers and from unofficial press sources. Due to this, an increasingly detailed and accurate picture is gradually being formed - although it will not be fully formed too soon and some of the data will still remain closed.

    It should be expected that the observed processes will continue in the future, and not only in the context of the "Perspective long-range intercept aviation complex". In the further development of the project, the necessary secrecy regime will be observed, but at the same time, some transparency of the work should be expected. This will allow the aviation industry to create a new aircraft and not reveal its secrets, but at the same time stir up public interest and give them a reason to be proud.

    Author: Ryabov Kirill

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:The basic shape of that plane looks awful... it is clearly optimised for stealth which is ridiculous because in terms of heat signature it will glow like a lightbulb... the hard corners look very unaerodynamic... more like F-117 than MiG-41.

    The basic shape is the same as a similar model revealed in the 1990s from MiG as a new interceptor though it often got mixed up in reporting as being the Tupolev option for the S-60 strike bomber replacement for the Tu-22M and Su-34 that never happened.

    The MiG in question is the MiG-701... it was supposed to have a flight range at supersonic speeds of about 7,000km, but mach 2 supersonic speeds not faster, and at subsonic speeds it was supposed to be able to fly around 11,000km range...

    That is nice, and the size is more logical for the task. It uses basically the same layout of 301, nevertheless.

    On such a plane, I guess variable geometry + foldable canards would be necessary for the take-off and landing. The engines above the fuselage seem a quite optimized solution:
    > Leaves the lower fuselage free for bays and bay doors
    > No need for big wing roots for nacelles like in Tu-160
    > No need for very long air ducts as in Tu-22M3

    And besides it is very good for FOD,no problems with AoA since the plane would not be very maneuverable.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:39 am

    The fundamental thing is the shift from mach 2.5 to mach 4 plus.

    The MiG-25 was replaced by the rather similar MiG-31 because the speed requirements didn't really change very much.

    The new requirement for higher speed and longer flight radius suggests a new design would be needed.

    Ryabov Kirill  article posted by Franco suggests no horizontal tail surfaces... whether that means canards or just a simplified layout like the bottom image on Holes post number 467...

    The top mounted air intake seems to be popular and as LMFS mentions a short intake should be rather efficient and with a slightly nose up attitude in flight would actually be rather stealthy.

    The huge MiG-25 like angled nose intakes of the Tu-22M3 reportedly increased RCS from the front by 25%, which is huge, but they also massively improved engine efficiency and were therefore deemed worth it.

    I would think a smart wing that can change its profile for different flight speeds would be the best solution... a leading edge that bend down for a super curved high lift profile for landing and takeoff and can be raised up to be thin and very low drag for high speed flight could make a swing wing design redundant.

    The forge created for making the enormous Titanium wing box structure on the Tu-160 that will also likely be used to make a huge one piece body section for the PAK DA flying wing bomber might also be useful for making a large Tu-22M3 sized aircraft similar to the Su-57 but with no horizontal tail surface and of course optimised for much higher flight speed.

    It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

    I am thinking a longer shape is likely to increase internal volume without increasing frontal area and drag potential...
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    Post  william.boutros Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:47 am

    GarryB wrote:The fundamental thing is the shift from mach 2.5 to mach 4 plus.

    The MiG-25 was replaced by the rather similar MiG-31 because the speed requirements didn't really change very much.

    The new requirement for higher speed and longer flight radius suggests a new design would be needed.

    Ryabov Kirill  article posted by Franco suggests no horizontal tail surfaces... whether that means canards or just a simplified layout like the bottom image on Holes post number 467...

    The top mounted air intake seems to be popular and as LMFS mentions a short intake should be rather efficient and with a slightly nose up attitude in flight would actually be rather stealthy.

    The huge MiG-25 like angled nose intakes of the Tu-22M3 reportedly increased RCS from the front by 25%, which is huge, but they also massively improved engine efficiency and were therefore deemed worth it.

    I would think a smart wing that can change its profile for different flight speeds would be the best solution... a leading edge that bend down for a super curved high lift profile for landing and takeoff and can be raised up to be thin and very low drag for high speed flight could make a swing wing design redundant.

    The forge created for making the enormous Titanium wing box structure on the Tu-160 that will also likely be used to make a huge one piece body section for the PAK DA flying wing bomber might also be useful for making a large Tu-22M3 sized aircraft similar to the Su-57 but with no horizontal tail surface and of course optimised for much higher flight speed.

    It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

    I am thinking a longer shape is likely to increase internal volume without increasing frontal area and drag potential...

    I am curious, how would an interceptor operate in tomorrow's world with hypersonic and stealth weapons.
    In case of a large scale cruise missile or hypersonic attack, by the time it would take the pilots to get into the plane and in the air, identify targets and shoot the hypersonic or stealth strike might as well be completed.
    Any indication whether the Mig-41 is going to be a drone at some point in the future? That would significantly reduce the time needed to get in the air.
    Also, how are the Russians planning to first identify then get a weapons lock signal on stealth cruise missiles as well as hypersonic ones? I suspect the aircraft would fire its missile in a general direction and use a fairly strong radar on its missile to get a weapons lock once close the target. This is going to make the armament of the aircraft very expensive as well which is probably why the missile is going to have multiple heads.
    In all cases, after firing a salvo of cruise missiles from a ship an adversary could immediately spread out the missiles kilometers apart to spread the risk of interception. This can also make the Mig's main weapon an overkill.
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    Post  LMFS Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:45 am

    GarryB wrote:The fundamental thing is the shift from mach 2.5 to mach 4 plus.

    Sure, that is a massive issue. Wings need to be tiny at 4 M, but you still need to land and take off, that is a very big design compromise. Therefore my reference to the canards and variable sweep wing, maybe there is some other good way.

    I would think a smart wing that can change its profile for different flight speeds would be the best solution... a leading edge that bend down for a super curved high lift profile for landing and takeoff and can be raised up to be thin and very low drag for high speed flight could make a swing wing design redundant.

    That will be applied to any aircraft, as soon as it is available and made reliable. And with the kind of dynamic and thermal loading of a 4 M plane, you better make it reliable indeed...

    Maybe thrusters, maybe blown control surfaces, maybe plasma aerodynamics... there are some ways but are they better that what we know already? Swing wing does not only allow to change the wingspan but also the aerofoil profile and relative thickness, it is ideal.

    I am thinking a longer shape is likely to increase internal volume without increasing frontal area and drag potential...

    The shape you need is a needle. The MiG-31 is already quite pointy and long, to go beyond that and still have payload and fuel you probably need quite a big plane.

    william.boutros wrote:I am curious, how would an interceptor operate in tomorrow's world with hypersonic and stealth weapons.
    In case of a large scale cruise missile or hypersonic attack, by the time it would take the pilots to get into the plane and in the air, identify targets and shoot the hypersonic or stealth strike might as well be completed.
    Any indication whether the Mig-41 is going to be a drone at some point in the future? That would significantly reduce the time needed to get in the air.
    Also, how are the Russians planning to first identify then get a weapons lock signal on stealth cruise missiles as well as hypersonic ones? I suspect the aircraft would fire its missile in a general direction and use a fairly strong radar on its missile to get a weapons lock once close the target. This is going to make the armament of the aircraft very expensive as well which is probably why the missile is going to have multiple heads.
    In all cases, after firing a salvo of cruise missiles from a ship an adversary could immediately spread out the missiles kilometers apart to spread the risk of interception. This can also make the Mig's main weapon an overkill.

    You probably need those planes in the air and/or based as far from the country's main centers along the weapons path as possible, that may work in the Arctic but not in the West for instance. It seems a problematic issue indeed. I think such plane should allow to attack the carriers at big distance, and also take care of space assets

    Detection of missiles is done by the Voronezh type for ballistic (high flying) targets and for the Konteyner for low flying ones. And still with thousands of km of detection range, it will be difficult to react for some targets of extremely high speed.

    I agree that the multiple warhead missile is the weapon needed for dealing with massive missile attacks. The spreading of the attacking CMs is a given and the R33/R-37M missile used against them is clearly not efficient for dealing with many hundreds of targets. With the same booster of one R-37 you could propel several small missiles that could be more than enough to take down a CM.

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