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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    x_54_u43
    x_54_u43

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    Post  x_54_u43 on Mon May 04, 2020 10:03 am

    Air-breathing spin detonation ramjet, video of test and link to website.

    https://fpi.gov.ru/projects/fiziko-tekhnicheskie-issledovaniya/detonatsionnyy-pvrd/




    PS, lots of other VERY interesting projects on that website, from liquid breathing apparatuses to super polymers to new forms of 3d printing, ooh la la.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 04, 2020 4:34 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:Air-breathing spin detonation ramjet, video of test and link to website.

    https://fpi.gov.ru/projects/fiziko-tekhnicheskie-issledovaniya/detonatsionnyy-pvrd/




    PS, lots of other VERY interesting projects on that website, from liquid breathing apparatuses to super polymers to new forms of 3d printing, ooh la la.

    So is this a scramjet minus the waverider design? Then again it looks like it could be the lower portion of the Kh-90 design:

    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research - Page 24 DvpgO8TXQAA0V4B
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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research - Page 24 1044510660_0:0:3000:1620_1000x540_80_0_0_99f4710ea5d842667932bd9dbec1a3bf
    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Mon May 04, 2020 7:35 pm

    It could be, TKMDB Soyuz was supposed to make the engine for Kh-90 and they're the same people behind this, but I mainly wanted to point out the spin detonation part of this engine, I'm not aware of any other project in the world at this size and power, really pointing to Russia's leadership in this.

    This plus the kerosene and liquid oxygen detonation engine shown a while ago bodes quite well for the Aerospace industry. I wonder if their will be a detonation engine for subsonic aircraft or if that will be handled by HTSC electric motors that are being made with SuperOx.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 04, 2020 9:08 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:It could be, TKMDB Soyuz was supposed to make the engine for Kh-90 and they're the same people behind this, but I mainly wanted to point out the spin detonation part of this engine, I'm not aware of any other project in the world at this size and power, really pointing to Russia's leadership in this.

    This plus the kerosene and liquid oxygen detonation engine shown a while ago bodes quite well for the Aerospace industry. I wonder if their will be a detonation engine for subsonic aircraft or if that will be handled by HTSC electric motors that are being made with SuperOx.

    What would be the actual advantage? It couldn't be speed (subsonic obviously), could it be range? The Foundation for Advanced Studies has promising advanced prototypes of electric engines for aircraft, and considering the Federation has the most cost-competitive Graphene production (apparently by a factor of 75).

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2824p625-ew-technologies-and-innovation-development-in-russia#275746

    If they 3D print Li-ion batteries made from Graphene, combined the electric engines, it should make a real impact on the world of aeronautics....especially because the 737 Max has caused Boeings shares to nose dive, and the current pandemic has put commercial airliner industry in to the shitter!
    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Mon May 04, 2020 10:13 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:It could be, TKMDB Soyuz was supposed to make the engine for Kh-90 and they're the same people behind this, but I mainly wanted to point out the spin detonation part of this engine, I'm not aware of any other project in the world at this size and power, really pointing to Russia's leadership in this.

    This plus the kerosene and liquid oxygen detonation engine shown a while ago bodes quite well for the Aerospace industry. I wonder if their will be a detonation engine for subsonic aircraft or if that will be handled by HTSC electric motors that are being made with SuperOx.

    What would be the actual advantage? It couldn't be speed (subsonic obviously), could it be range? The Foundation for Advanced Studies has promising advanced prototypes of electric engines for aircraft, and considering the Federation has the most cost-competitive Graphene production (apparently by a factor of 75).

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2824p625-ew-technologies-and-innovation-development-in-russia#275746

    If they 3D print Li-ion batteries made from Graphene, combined the electric engines, it should make a real impact on the world of aeronautics....especially because the 737 Max has caused Boeings shares to nose dive, and the current pandemic has put commercial airliner industry in to the shitter!

    Well, detonation engines make their distinction as being detonation rather than deflagration, which is outright more efficient and more powerful, nothing says you couldn't make one for subsonic usage or even turboshaft setup like for powering helos, ground vehicles, ships and other things and there are concepts and programs for exactly such engines.


    And yes, Russia's advantage in graphene and other material sciences will be the winning factor in the future arms/tech race going on, but with regards to electric aircraft I don't see fully electric widebodies coming soon, requirements are too severe for even future battery concepts, current trend for larger electric aircraft compared to the ones we have now is a electric drive setup, with a turbine powering a generator and then using that for an electric motor, which is where SuperOx's HTSC tech comes in, and where a detonation shaft engine with far superior characteristics come in(lighter, smaller, more powerful, less fuel usage) make it another winner for something like CR929, or another potential widebody from Russia.

    There was a Sukhoi paper project with partial folding wings and a double decker setup that didn't go anywhere to the glorious 90s and general expense of the project. It was called KR-860 and looks stunning. With future detonation engines and HTSC, along with new super materials coming along, such as graphene and super polymers/composites that are being worked on, you might see Russia going on it's own for a widebody without China holding it back. I honestly feel that CR929 is just a guaranteed way of making money of Chinese market.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 05, 2020 8:47 am

    Jet engines are pretty standard on most subsonic large aircraft like airliners and cargo transport planes... a more efficient much cheaper simpler engine design is always interesting and potentially useful... and of course if this offers potential for scramjet propulsion having an engine type that can operate from a standing still start to mach 20 plus in the high atmosphere would mean the goal of an aircraft that could take off from a runway and accelerate fast enough to launch a satellite into orbit could be achieved...

    Currently you need a significant rocket from something like a MiG-31 to get something in to low earth orbit but imagine an aircraft that climbed to 60km altitude at mach 20... you are well above most of the atmosphere so a rocket could then take a sizable payload into low earth orbit or a smaller payload to a much higher orbit without needing to be enormous and therefore expensive...

    That plane could also deliver things around the world at astounding speeds... whether it is humans or critical cargo.... imagine a 3 hour flight from London to Sydney...
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:06 pm

    "MIT Corporation" is working on motor hypersound, the theme has the code "scramjet"

    Source No. 1, report of the Joint Institute for High Temperatures of the Russian Academy of Sciences for 2017:
    Contract D-2176-13. Cipher "scramjet". Customer OJSC MIT Corporation
    Validity period - September 15, 2013 - October 29, 2015

    Source No. 2, Ph.D. thesis of the candidate of Technical Sciences Kochetkov Vladimir Grigoryevich: The
    work was performed as part of the basic part of the state assignment for 2017-2019. (project 4.7491.2017 / warhead) on equipment purchased under the strategic development program of Volgograd State Technical University for 2012-2016, the industrial program of the mid-range research project on the subject of “Heat Protection” and the secondary research work “Research, development and creation of promising heat-protective coatings on the inner surfaces of gas generators (topic "Scramjet").
    ...
    The developed fire-and-heat-protective materials passed industrial testing at JSC TsNIISM and JSC MIT Corporation.
    ...
    The application of the developed fireproof materials makes it possible to increase the heating time of the protected structures, under the influence of flame and high-temperature flows (up to 2000 ° C), due to reduced thermal conductivity and increased coke formation.

    https://e-maksimov.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%9C%D0%98%D0%A2

    This news is from one of those blogs livejournal like bmdp, don't know if credible, it's from December 2018...

    He talks about a scramjet built for The Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology, the same that developed Bulava, Topol-M...etc...
    This institute is the same that signed with the MoD the anchar-rv contract...
    In my opinion this has nothing to do with Zircon or Gzur, different companies NPO mashinostroyeniya the first, Raduga the second.
    Why would Russia need a third scramjet engine project?
    Could be a HGV powered by a scramjet? A scramjet engine for a plane? A hypersonic cruise missile launched from yars or Bulava? lol1 A hypersonic drone?

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:49 pm

    For the same reason they need more than one type of jet engine... a cruise missile and a reentering ICBM or SLBM RV and an interceptor aircraft and a bomber aircraft and a long range passenger plane are not all going to be able to use the same scramjet.... different sizes, different speeds, different altitudes and expectations etc etc...
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:For the same reason they need more than one type of jet engine... a cruise missile and a reentering ICBM or SLBM RV and an interceptor aircraft and a bomber aircraft and a long range passenger plane are not all going to be able to use the same scramjet.... different sizes, different speeds, different altitudes and expectations etc etc...

    It was a question to the forum Very Happy
    Why would a institute that almost exclusively develops ICBM/SLBM needs a scramjet?
    I'm not criticizing, I love scramjets, there could have 6 different sizes of scramjets "now": mini Zircon, Zircon, giant Zircon, Gzur, Gzur for SU-57, and this one.
    Obviously some of the scramjets could have the same size and the difference be solid fuel part.

    From 2001: Suspect

    https://www.terradaily.com/reports/Russians_Tested_New_Type_Of_Ballistic_Missile_Report.html

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:58 pm

    dino00 wrote:Why would a institute that almost exclusively develops ICBM/SLBM needs a scramjet?

    #1 Scram-jet powered HGV.

    #2 Scram-jet powered upper stage that cruises thru the upper atmosphere instead of going ballistic high above the earth. Think of it as a high-altitude long-range version of Zircon launched by a rocket stage.

    There are just SO many delicious uses for such technologies, none of them appealing to the Uh'murikkkan elites. Twisted Evil
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:07 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Why would a institute that almost exclusively develops ICBM/SLBM needs a scramjet?

    #1 Scram-jet powered HGV.  

    #2 Scram-jet powered upper stage that cruises thru the upper atmosphere instead of going ballistic high above the earth.  Think of it as a high-altitude long-range version of Zircon launched by a rocket stage.

    There are just SO many delicious uses for such technologies, none of them appealing to the Uh'murikkkan elites. Twisted Evil

    This were 2 of the options that I though, the second looks more plausible Very Happy
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:14 am

    Well previously if you wanted intercontinental range you needed to reach orbit and to reach orbital speed you could only do so with a rocket... even a ramjet couldn't get you fast enough.

    But now a scramjet can do the job and normally in a rocket motor the fuel by weight is one quarter fuel and three quarters dedicated to generating enormous amounts of oxygen for that fuel to burn rapidly.

    For something like an ICBM or SLBM 95% of the vehicle is fuel by weight, so a 100 ton missile has about 25 tons of actual fuel and 75 tons of oxidiser so that fuel can be burned.... but it needs the enormous and powerful rocket engine it uses because it needs to carry all that fuel... so if you replace that rocket engine with a scramjet engine you need a quarter of the fuel by weight which means you dramatically reduce the weigh of the vehicle so you can use a much less powerful scramjet motor to move it.

    A nuclear ramjet does not involve combustion so it is technically a scramjet anyway because the airflow does not need to be slowed down like in a ramjet... there were plenty of old designs of super long range cruise missiles that were going to use ramjet motors to fly intercontinental distances inside the atmosphere... but at nothing like orbital speeds... something like the the original BURAN or Burya...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS-40_Buran

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burya

    Both projects before ICBMs were perfected and reliable... both were mach 3-3.5 ramjet powered cruise missiles launched by solid rocket boosters.

    With scramjet motors their speed and range could be tripled these days, while their weights could be reduced by an enormous amount too with much better rocket and scramjet propulsion... and of course much lighter heat resistant structures and lighter nuclear payloads.
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    Post  dino00 on Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:05 pm

    The President of the Russian Federation noted that today no one can bring down hypersonic missiles.

    “Nobody takes them today. Such speeds that it’s impossible to take them. This is the uniqueness of our current situation. I repeat once again: with a high degree of probability we will have a means of combating hypersonic weapons by the time that the leading countries of the world have this hypersonic weapons, "he concluded.


    https://ria.ru/20200614/1572908622.html

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