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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 Sat May 03, 2014 4:10 pm

    Looks like US controlled Junta in Kiev is trying to provoke Russia to invade , perhaps looks like their real goal is have a justification to present a case to the EU against Russia to justify sanctions in the energy sector.. That is economical sanctions.. one Thing Russia could do also  is to recruit mercenaries not only from Russia or former soviet republics ,but also from europe.. .Veterans orthodox christians that are retired from army but that still understand very well how to fight. And provide weapons to them. This is an option Russia should seriously consider . and that is very easy to do and very high success to happen. Since already Russia was asked in the Syrian conflict ,by Serbians and other factions pro Russia to help them get into Syria to fight..  

    Here is one of such group.. that claimed to have 72,000 veterans ready to help Russia in Syria..
    all they asked was food and a house and for sure weapons..

    Im wondering where are that people now? because the numbers in the east of fighters Pro Russia is about 2,000 ,according to the
    them and most of them are not veterans in combat ,just civilians. As far i know they never went to Syria .So for sure they will not mind to fight in Ukraine now.



    IF you were wondered why NATO support right sector the radical terrorist Ukrainian group..is because they are used as the Hitmans for special operations.. Their goal is to create terror and force Russians to flee from Ukraine towards Russia ,and force Russia to carry them later . Is some kind of economic warfare.. If you can force millions to flee into a country ,that will have a negative impact in that country economy.
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    Firebird

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    Post  Firebird Sat May 03, 2014 4:23 pm

    The junta isnt trying to get Russia to invade.
    Its taking the piss because it thinks Russia is afraid to invade.

    AMerica just wants to taunt |Russian people and cause more grief if it considers Russia "weak".
    Most people in the West dont believe the American gutter press. So Russia hardly needs worry what BRICs and unaligned states will hear from Fox News etc.

    The US spent 2trn in Iraq and Afghan genocides. Its spent a lot of money in the Ukraine, as a last gasp effort to maintain $ and US global hegemony.

    It may come as a surprise to some people, but tanks and helicopters beat baseball bats and small arms. Thats why Russia is spending 700bn USD over 10 yrs. NOT because "it looks cool".

    Yes guerilla resistance can do its bit. But it cant do everything.

    Either these people should be considered part of the Russian world. Or part of the Fascist Bandera scum world.
    Either Russia will back up its threats. Or people might as well start wearing swaztikas, learning "American speak" and how to maintain Patriot missiles based in Lugansk.

    I know which I'd prefer.
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    Post  zino Sat May 03, 2014 4:56 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Apparently Italian soldier is part of the crack down on Civilians.

    10 killed, around 30 injured in Kramatorsk overnight fighting – self-defense leader.

    apparently the night fighting was not good for the anti kiev forces.. too many casualties/wounded.

    http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/


    I tried to find out the original source but failed. The guy is 100% italian. Probably an expat. A contractor would have been his face masked. The journo was italian also, but that conflict has few coverage here, so I don't know who's she..
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 4:57 pm

    Then let the Russia invade and if EU resent bomb Berlin! Russia tried everything the last 70 years against West except to play with them with their own rules.
    I will repeat again. Western civilization knows only about power. You don't negotiate with them just submit them.
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Sat May 03, 2014 5:08 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Then let the Russia invade and if EU resent bomb Berlin! Russia tried everything the last 70 years against West except to play with them with their own rules.
    I will repeat again. Western civilization knows only about power. You don't negotiate with them just submit them.

    As much as I'm tempted to agree with you, I don't think WWIII would solve this problem.
    After giving it much thought, I now think that Russia should go after the initiators/instigators of the unrest(s) MOSSAD style. Better yet ex-KGB style.
    And I don't think the slime in Kiev here, I mean those from the west that pull the strings.
    Without them - the west can't do ANYTHING. Not a single thing!
    And just for show...all the leaders of Praviy Sektor and other Banderites.
    See the situation change IN AN INSTANT after that.

    ------
    Edit:

    Yes, I do watch 'The Americans'  Very Happy russia 


    Last edited by macedonian on Sat May 03, 2014 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Firebird

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    Post  Firebird Sat May 03, 2014 5:11 pm

    The junta has no soft power in its own right. Its pr to the cvilised world is terrible... because they are Nazis.
    Even the "respectable" side to it ie that piece of shit Tymoshenko, talks about building militias and using Shite Sector's Banderites.

    So its sole rationale for anything is what force it can use. You dont read poetry to a mugger or a would be murderer.

    History is full of fools who thought they could negotiate with tyrants and "appeal to their reasoning and sense of morals".

    The atrocities are happening, because the junta are convinced they will get away with them.

    I'm sure the middle ground Ukrainians would love to see the back of the right wing scum. Notice the fights between Shite Sector and Maiden-muppets this week! Maybe they're afraid to protest after the atrocities in Odessa...
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    Post  macedonian Sat May 03, 2014 5:21 pm

    Firebird wrote:The junta has no soft power in its own right. Its pr to the cvilised world is terrible... because they are Nazis.
    Even the "respectable" side to it ie that piece of shit Tymoshenko, talks about building militias and using Shite Sector's Banderites.

    So its sole rationale for anything is what force it can use. You dont read poetry to a mugger or a would be murderer.

    History is full of fools who thought they could negotiate with tyrants and "appeal to their reasoning and sense of morals".

    The atrocities are happening, because the junta are convinced they will get away with them.

    I'm sure the middle ground Ukrainians would love to see the back of the right wing scum. Notice the fights between Shite Sector and Maiden-muppets this week! Maybe they're afraid to protest after the atrocities in Odessa...

    Listen to me: They don't make you a General because you're good at shooting and blowing stuff up, they make you a General because of your abilities to THINK and come up with a proper strategy to surprise the enemy and inflict heavy loses on him. If Russia takes out the invisible people running this from the background, there's nothing the muscles on the ground can do, but act as cannon fodder. It's like a human being: You can live without your hand, even both of them, hell you can live without ALL of your limbs...but take out the head, and it's merely a corpse.
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sat May 03, 2014 5:21 pm

    zino wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    Apparently Italian soldier is part of the crack down on Civilians.

    10 killed, around 30 injured in Kramatorsk overnight fighting – self-defense leader.

    apparently the night fighting was not good for the anti kiev forces.. too many casualties/wounded.

    http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/


    I tried to find out the original source but failed. The guy is 100% italian. Probably an expat. A contractor would have been his face masked. The journo was italian also, but that conflict has few coverage here, so I don't know who's she..


    Nope  Smile  These guys also have their faces not covered.


    Earlier I speculated that they're PMCs.
    There was also a few reports about their activities, like that those new territorial defense forces ("dnepr", "donbas") were trained by private contractors. They also have supposedly been handling some intel stuff.

    This Italian guy could also be a contractor. However, presence of multinational guys on the ground could also suggest (but not surely) that they're not mercenaries, but actual foreign SF.

    But the first option is more likely so far.


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Sat May 03, 2014 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 5:29 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Then let the Russia invade and if EU resent bomb Berlin! Russia tried everything the last 70 years against West except to play with them with their own rules.
    I will repeat again. Western civilization knows only about power. You don't negotiate with them just submit them.

    As much as I'm tempted to agree with you, I don't think WWIII would solve this problem.
    After giving it much thought, I now think that Russia should go after the initiators/instigators of the unrest(s) MOSSAD style. Better yet ex-KGB style.
    And I don't think the slime in Kiev here, I mean those from the west that pull the strings.
    Without them - the west can't do ANYTHING. Not a single thing!
    And just for show...all the leaders of Praviy Sektor and other Banderites.
    See the situation change IN AN INSTANT after that.

    ------
    Edit:

    Yes, I do watch 'The Americans'  Very Happy russia 


    Next is Georgia's turn to integrate with EU and Moldova and Serbia. You don't negotiate with snakes especially when they are weaken. You destroy them once and for all.
    USA bluffs all the way 70 years now. They don't have the balls.  China is doing right cause they still improve by lips and bounds but Russia is a known quantity.
    EU needs one or two well judged blows and will collapse to ashes. Is ridiculous for Germany to abuse Russia never before a loser humiliated a winner, Europe is a pushover.
    Only Russia's willingness to cooperate make things much more difficult that they are.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Sat May 03, 2014 5:42 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Then let the Russia invade and if EU resent bomb Berlin! Russia tried everything the last 70 years against West except to play with them with their own rules.
    I will repeat again. Western civilization knows only about power. You don't negotiate with them just submit them.

    As much as I'm tempted to agree with you, I don't think WWIII would solve this problem.
    After giving it much thought, I now think that Russia should go after the initiators/instigators of the unrest(s) MOSSAD style. Better yet ex-KGB style.
    And I don't think the slime in Kiev here, I mean those from the west that pull the strings.
    Without them - the west can't do ANYTHING. Not a single thing!
    And just for show...all the leaders of Praviy Sektor and other Banderites.
    See the situation change IN AN INSTANT after that.

    ------
    Edit:

    Yes, I do watch 'The Americans'  Very Happy russia 


    Next is Georgia's turn to integrate with EU and Moldova and Serbia. You don't negotiate with snakes especially when they are weaken. You destroy them once and for all.
    USA bluffs all the way 70 years now. They don't have the balls.  China is doing right cause they still improve by lips and bounds but Russia is a known quantity.
    EU needs one or two well judged blows and will collapse to ashes. Is ridiculous for Germany to abuse Russia never before a loser humiliated a winner, Europe is a pushover.
    Only Russia's willingness to cooperate make things much more difficult that they are.


    The US dont have the balls for what?
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 5:51 pm

    To retaliate. I bet that if Russia burn Berlin to the ground nobody will do anything.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Sat May 03, 2014 5:56 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:To retaliate. I bet that if Russia burn Berlin to the ground nobody will do anything.

    I think thats bullshit ever heard of NATO?

    When Russia burns Berlin to the ground we will have ww3 going.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 6:00 pm

    NATO is a crap. A total joke for European puppet morons to believe! Americunts don't give a f for countries without weapons of mass distraction to risk anything.
    You challenge Russia and you are all your own. This is what Russia should teach to those weakies in western Europe the hard way.
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    As Sa'iqa

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    Post  As Sa'iqa Sat May 03, 2014 6:03 pm

    Military alliance of all EU countries should be a better option.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 6:06 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Military alliance of all EU countries should be a better option.

    Yeah and good luck trying to convince me to fight with you against Russia lol  Laughing 
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    Post  As Sa'iqa Sat May 03, 2014 6:07 pm

    AS Russia has nuclear weapons, no one will risk war with them.

    Sanctions and providing weapons to the UKR government is a different story.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat May 03, 2014 6:10 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:AS Russia has nuclear weapons, no one will risk war with them.

    Sanctions and providing weapons to the UKR government is a different story.

    And what makes you think that we love Ukraine more than Russia to support them? Last time I checked half EU had 30% unemployment because of Germany not because of Russia.
    If you are to sanction Germany to submission we are all in but for Russia? No sir ! Mad 
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 35 Empty ex Bercut in east Ukraine slotered by Right Sector..

    Post  arpakola Sat May 03, 2014 6:11 pm


    ex Bercut in east Ukraine slotered by Right Sector..

    ==============================



    Last edited by arpakola on Sat May 03, 2014 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  gaurav Sat May 03, 2014 6:17 pm


    I think thats bullshit ever heard of NATO?

    When Russia burns Berlin to the ground we will have ww3 going.

    Thats partially correct.

    Russia will not do anything in Germany.

    Russia cannot stand total sanctions from U.S. and whole of E.U.
    That will be night mare for Russia.

    No use bragging about something which Russia cannot do.

    The NATO/U.S are waiting for Russia's miscalculation.

    As firebird said even with a (massive recession based economy .. 2-3 % recession expected by all estimates..) Russia arms procurement stands at 700 billion usd in 10 years.
    This itself speaks about long term goals of Russia.


    But situation not good on the ground..
    Everyday 5-10 Russian militia are been killed. Kiev fu@#$ are going out of control with their lunatics.

    By Russ calculation it would lead to 500 dead (Russ militia)  in 1 -2 months time.

    This kiev eunuchs like Tymos, Interior and defense ministers all should be assassinated..
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat May 03, 2014 6:19 pm

    I have a feeling after the Victory Day Parade something big will happen from the Russian side, just like something big (Crimea joining Russia again) happened after the Sochi Winter Olympics.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 03, 2014 8:28 pm

    gaurav wrote:

    I think thats bullshit ever heard of NATO?

    When Russia burns Berlin to the ground we will have ww3 going.

    Thats partially correct.

    Russia will not do anything in Germany.

    Russia cannot stand total sanctions from U.S. and whole of E.U.
    That will be night mare for Russia.

    No use bragging about something which Russia cannot do.

    The NATO/U.S are waiting for Russia's miscalculation.

    As firebird said even with a (massive recession based economy .. 2-3 % recession expected by all estimates..) Russia arms procurement stands at 700 billion usd in 10 years.
    This itself speaks about long term goals of Russia.


    But situation not good on the ground..
    Everyday 5-10 Russian militia are been killed. Kiev fu@#$ are going out of control with their lunatics.

    By Russ calculation it would lead to 500 dead (Russ militia)  in 1 -2 months time.

    This kiev eunuchs like Tymos, Interior and defense ministers all should be assassinated..

    You need to understand what you are talking about,  before commenting.

    Yes, Russia can survive easily with such sanctions, because EU exports mostly to Russia (their exports stand at being higher than their imports from Russia) hence EU has far more to lose economically.  Their exports to Russia is in the $300B range.  Second of all, a 2 - 3 % economic so called drop is nothing compared to 2008 for Russia.  And the last thing is, Iran, with all the sanctions on board, only saw around -1% drop yet their GDP has grown actually.

    If in case Sanctions became more, than the military industrial complex will end up becoming far more important asset to Russia's economy than before, and will end up being the strong arm of the economy, and hence, more money will be thrown into it for safe measures (more people working, means more consumers).

    Russia's exports to EU is about 80% in oil and gas, and total stands around $170B.  US has even less.  Last I heard, US export and import from Russia stands at around less than 2% of Russia's economy.  Only thing Russia relies on through US is the transfer of funds on any sale, as it is done through USD.  That will end up changing from Roubles to whichever currency they trade with.  Future transactions with India is already being pushed for Roubles and Rupees.  Roubles and Yuan for China, etc.

    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/rus/

    From what you can see in this, Russia imports about 1% less than from EU.  You can see what is the main imports and at what %.  With the increase demand in China and India, it is a huge opportunity to expand that market.  EU is not really interested in sanctions towards energy import, and are going as far as wanting to help pay for Ukraines debt to Gazprom.  Add in that growing countries like Indonesia and alike will end up being importers of energy.  Vietnam is interested in free trade with Russia and their demands for energy is going up.  Bangledesh included as well. Then there is the push from Putin for Africa.  South Africa is interested in Russian business, and already Russian banks are opening in South Africa and helicopter repair plants.  Next stages will be telecommunications, energy, and Pharmaceuticals.  Which Russia could get a lot in terms from India as well.
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    Post  Firebird Sat May 03, 2014 9:46 pm

    I will reply to some other pts later.
    But before then, why aren't the self defence forces using more IEDs etc?
    I mean these things can be homemade if they aren't slipped into the area.

    That stops tanks, APCs etc driving into anywhere.

    PS reading "John Kerry demands Russia w/ds support for separatists". I really hope that piece of shit dies an agonisingly painful death.
    Along with many others I could mention in W-ton, Brussels and Kiev.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Sat May 03, 2014 10:39 pm

    Firebird wrote:I will reply to some other pts later.
    But before then, why aren't the self defence forces using more IEDs etc?
    I mean these things can be homemade if they aren't slipped into the area.

    That stops tanks, APCs etc driving into anywhere.

    PS reading "John Kerry demands Russia w/ds support for separatists". I really hope that piece of shit dies an agonisingly painful death.
    Along with many others I could mention in W-ton, Brussels and Kiev.

    Just a different point of view and you wish someone a painfull death??

    BTW come on everyone knows there are Russian Spec ops in Ukraine.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 35 Empty ,Shooting at people who try to escape the burning building:

    Post  arpakola Sat May 03, 2014 10:39 pm



    Shooting at people who try to escape the burning building:
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    Post  Airbornewolf Sat May 03, 2014 10:49 pm

    Firebird wrote:I will reply to some other pts later.
    But before then, why aren't the self defence forces using more IEDs etc?
    I mean these things can be homemade if they aren't slipped into the area.

    That stops tanks, APCs etc driving into anywhere.


    this is not meanth as a insult, but clearly you are not experienced or educated in IED's and their effects on both combatants and civilian population.

    without giving an in-depth explanation and nature of IED's ill point out the main problem with them. in all the Jala-Jala IED vids in the middle east you only see the "desired" effects.

    and not what often goes wrong with IED's. and thats its triggered by civilians, kids that pick it up or even own troops. as i have seen in Afghanistan using IED's are just as likely to turn the local population against you when a car with women and kids hits it than as you get "lucky" and strike an enemy with it. the pro-russian activist are not terrorists, they are just normal people that are fed up being ignored by Kiev and being threatened by Nazi's. there is a certain level of extremism or ...unreasonable hate involved for someone to be willing to put an explosive in the ground and think "i do not care if i blow up 100 of my own people, as long i hit 1 enemy its fine".

    that said, ... you can not build an IED like you are reading a step-by-step manual of LEGO while you are putting it together. it requires skill and knowledge and quite often an IED builder blows himself up. some parts are easy to aqquire for an IED. but the primer and explosive itself are rather hard to come by. the Taliban use heavily HME (Home Made Explosive) witch is made from fertilizer mixed with a couple of other things. but even that has to be mixed right or it does nothing at all when the primer goes off.


    of course you got "fancy" ways of detonation, like Radio-controlled, command wired or cellphone. but these are rather means that are either expensive or time-consuming. not to mention you need someone that can build them without blowing themselves up. unlike the basic "pressure plate" where two metal ends close the electric cirquit as soon something pressures the two contacts together...the above ones already have a closed electric circuit that triggers the blast but rely on primitive cirquitboards to switch the electric cirquit to the primer.

    and practically speaking....i really do not see the pro-russian side activists with a pickaxe going all out on the hardened road to dig a hole and hope for a Kiev tank to drive over that freshly-dug-up-but-very-questionable-hole in the ground covered with sand. most displacements i saw from Kiev vehicles was over hardened roads anyway.

    i am really not going to say here online how its best to neutralise enemy vehicles in urban area's. but there are way easier and more effective means to counter Kiev vehicles. especially urban area's. i really do not want to go throw fuel on the fire here and neither do i think its a good idea to talk casual or out of personal frustration about deploying weaponry against another side. thats just my personal opinion.

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