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Log inCouple of vids via Balancer
Do I see depth charges about 0:58?
Do I see depth charges about 0:58?
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67 posters
Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship
hoom- Posts : 2353
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Hole- Posts : 7003
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It seems so.
Also the rails on the deck means that the ships can lay mines.
Also the rails on the deck means that the ships can lay mines.
GunshipDemocracy
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Sosna instead of Gibka? less probable Pantsir to me
Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5256082
In the Russian Navy reported on the modernization of the project of small missile ships with the "Caliber"
SEVASTOPOL, 1 June. / TASS /. The project of small missile ships 21631 (code "Buyan-M") is planned to be modernized and provided with new radio-technical weapons and air defense systems. This was reported to journalists on Friday by the head of the shipbuilding department of the Russian Navy Rear Admiral Vladimir Tryapichnikov.
The Black Sea Fleet of Russia
On warships and submarines of the operational-strategic association of the Navy on the Black Sea
"In total, 12 ships are planned in the series, their further development will be updated taking into account progress in both the part of the radio-technical weapons and air defense," he said at the lifting ceremony of the St. Andrew's flag on the sixth ship of this series "Vyshny Volochok".
Tryapichnikov noted that every ship in the series undergoes major sea trials. To date, five ships have been built - three are on the Caspian flotilla, two - in the Baltic Fleet. "This is the" Grad Sviyazhsk "," Uglich "," Great Ustyug "," Serpukhov "and" Green Dol ", today we participated in the solemn ceremony of lifting the flag on the sixth ship" Vyshny Volochek. "In a high degree of readiness is the ship" Orekhovo-Zuevo ", further -" Ingushetia "," Grad "," Naro-Fominsk ", as well as another ship that will also bear the name of one of the leading cities of the Russian Federation," he said.
The head of the shipbuilding department of the Russian Navy added that the fleet will proceed to the construction and design of ships of the far sea zone, which will be based on the frigates of Project 22350.
The small Vyshniy Volochok rocket ship, on which the St. Andrew's flag was raised, is a multipurpose ship equipped with modern artillery, missile, anti-sabotage, anti-aircraft and radio-technical weapons. He is the sixth ship of the modernized series "Buyan-M" and will be the only representative of this class in the Black Sea Fleet. The ships of this project have increased displacement and are equipped with the newest high-precision long-range missile weapons - the universal missile system "Caliber-NK", designed to destroy sea and coastal targets.
Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5256082
AlfaT8- Posts : 2174
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GunshipDemocracy wrote:Sosna instead of Gibka? less probable Pantsir to meIn the Russian Navy reported on the modernization of the project of small missile ships with the "Caliber"
SEVASTOPOL, 1 June. / TASS /. The project of small missile ships 21631 (code "Buyan-M") is planned to be modernized and provided with new radio-technical weapons and air defense systems. This was reported to journalists on Friday by the head of the shipbuilding department of the Russian Navy Rear Admiral Vladimir Tryapichnikov.
The Black Sea Fleet of Russia
On warships and submarines of the operational-strategic association of the Navy on the Black Sea
"In total, 12 ships are planned in the series, their further development will be updated taking into account progress in both the part of the radio-technical weapons and air defense," he said at the lifting ceremony of the St. Andrew's flag on the sixth ship of this series "Vyshny Volochok".
Tryapichnikov noted that every ship in the series undergoes major sea trials. To date, five ships have been built - three are on the Caspian flotilla, two - in the Baltic Fleet. "This is the" Grad Sviyazhsk "," Uglich "," Great Ustyug "," Serpukhov "and" Green Dol ", today we participated in the solemn ceremony of lifting the flag on the sixth ship" Vyshny Volochek. "In a high degree of readiness is the ship" Orekhovo-Zuevo ", further -" Ingushetia "," Grad "," Naro-Fominsk ", as well as another ship that will also bear the name of one of the leading cities of the Russian Federation," he said.
The head of the shipbuilding department of the Russian Navy added that the fleet will proceed to the construction and design of ships of the far sea zone, which will be based on the frigates of Project 22350.
The small Vyshniy Volochok rocket ship, on which the St. Andrew's flag was raised, is a multipurpose ship equipped with modern artillery, missile, anti-sabotage, anti-aircraft and radio-technical weapons. He is the sixth ship of the modernized series "Buyan-M" and will be the only representative of this class in the Black Sea Fleet. The ships of this project have increased displacement and are equipped with the newest high-precision long-range missile weapons - the universal missile system "Caliber-NK", designed to destroy sea and coastal targets.
Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5256082
Super Buyan??
George1- Posts : 17724
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Small rocket ships "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Velikiy Ustyug" pass from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea
As reported on the web resource fleetphoto.ru, on June 4, 2018 small missile ships "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Velikiy Ustyug" of project 21631 (cipher "Buyan-M") of the Caspian flotilla were photographed on the Don river in the Rostov-on-Don area , crossing the inland waterways from the Caspian to the Black Sea. It is reported that the ships pass, accompanied by a raid tug RB-10.
"Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Velikiy Ustyug" are respectively the head and third in series of small missile ships (MRK) of Project 21631 (plant numbers 631 and 633) of JSC "Zelenodolsky" Plant. The head ship "Grad Sviyazhsk" was incorporated into the Caspian flotilla of the Russian Navy on July 27, 2014, and the Velikiy Ustyug was put into operation by the Caspian Flotilla on December 19, 2014. In addition to them, the second ship Uglich (plant number 632) is also part of the Caspian Flotilla, which was also delivered on July 27, 2014.
As part of the Black Sea Fleet, there is now only one ship of the project 21631 - Vyshny Volochyok (plant number 636), commissioned on June 1, 2018 only. Two more small missile ships "Zeleni Dol" (serial number 634) and Serpukhov (plant number 635) are now part of the Baltic Fleet.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3229922.html
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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sound slike but frankly why keep making Buyans anyway?! I really hope he meant to upgrade existing series with say Sosna ir Panrtsir (sosnt more probable tho)AlfaT8 wrote:
Super Buyan??
hoom- Posts : 2353
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Interesting.As reported on the web resource fleetphoto.ru, on June 4, 2018 small missile ships "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Velikiy Ustyug" of project 21631 (cipher "Buyan-M") of the Caspian flotilla were photographed on the Don river in the Rostov-on-Don area , crossing the inland waterways from the Caspian to the Black Sea. It is reported that the ships pass, accompanied by a raid tug RB-10.
Temporary beefing up BSF for World Cup? (also those river monitors)
Not like the Caspian really needs all that stuff & while other fleets are so desperately short of modern ships, BSF split with Syria effort makes sense to use that inland waterway redeployment option.
I think thats first pic of inland waterway redeployment under own power too.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7403
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If they can increase the number of cruise missiles on hard these ships from 8 to let's say 16 or more, then having a bunch of such ships patrolling riverways large and deep enough to handle them would make great missile launches against adversaries located in eastern Europe to be hit and it doesn't effect the INF agreement
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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miketheterrible wrote:If they can increase the number of cruise missiles on hard these ships from 8 to let's say 16 or more, then having a bunch of such ships patrolling riverways large and deep enough to handle them would make great missile launches against adversaries located in eastern Europe to be hit and it doesn't effect the INF agreement
meeh for this Iskander - cruise missile is already ready. And modernization is about avionics and AAD systems
To me Tass message is not clear - are they going to modernize existing Buyans or to update project and to build more?! if more WTF 21631 + 22800 and 22160 in the same category ?!
hoom wrote:
Temporary beefing up BSF for World Cup? (also those river monitors)
.
My bet is on Azov Sea and Ukropistan
miketheterrible- Posts : 7403
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Not enough iskanders in service. Plus, they are short range so within easy striking distance for air launched cruise missiles.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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miketheterrible wrote:Not enough iskanders in service.
Iskander brigades are massively deployed over Russia, not sure what you meantAs long as INF is not dead yes. Iskander-K is based on Kalibr...Plus, they are short range so within easy striking distance for air launched cruise missiles.
Hole- Posts : 7003
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There are 12 Brigades each with 12 launchers with 2 missiles each. This are 288 ready to launch ballistic or cruise missiles with a range of 450/300 km. And this air-launched cruise missiles would have to pass the russian air defence. Even if a few would get trough, they are so slow that the Iskanders wouldn´t be there anymore.
Me thinks they want to modernise existing ships, not building new ones. The Karakurts are more flexible.
Russia should put some USKS on river barges. Much cheaper.
Me thinks they want to modernise existing ships, not building new ones. The Karakurts are more flexible.
Russia should put some USKS on river barges. Much cheaper.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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Hole wrote:There are 12 Brigades each with 12 launchers with 2 missiles each. This are 288 ready to launch ballistic or cruise missiles with a range of 450/300 km.
Iskander was tested (a ballistic one) 480. But I am sure it is designed to hit further. Cruise missile is far more range than 500km. 500 km i only technical restriction (or rather software one) for INF. This is actually Kalir. For more important targets you have Kinzhal or the near future Rubezh/Avangard.
no, much more expensive since ships and infrastructure + only can move in canals/rivers.Russia should put some USKS on river barges. Much cheaper.
hoom- Posts : 2353
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According to ppl over at Balancer BSF has taken over guarding gas infrastructure from the coastguard.
More canal action
Why though? Presumably coastguard considered not strong enough to dissuade 404? Or will be busy with other World Cup stuff maybe?The marine brigade took under the protection of the Black Sea gas producers.
Patrolling of the Black Sea area, where Russian gas production platforms are located, is assigned to the 41st Guards Brigade of Missile Ships, Izvestia reports.
According to the command of the Black Sea Fleet, the ships of the 41st Guards Brigade started round-the-clock protection of the fields of the state-owned company Chernomorneftegaz. Rotation of crews is held every 2 weeks. Small anti-submarine ships and rocket boats are involved in patrolling. Previously, this task was being handled by the Coast Guard of the FSB border troops.
More canal action
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You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile onto a barge that costs only a few 100.000 Bucks. No violation of the INF treaty. They could be moved around the canal system and rivers.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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- Post n°291
You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile
GunshipDemocracy Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 pm
Hole wrote:You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile onto a barge that costs only a few 100.000 Bucks. No violation of the INF treaty. They could be moved around the canal system and rivers.
In the world of tanks or similar realm sure not in realm of reality. Nope
TheArmenian- Posts : 1883
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Hole wrote:You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile onto a barge that costs only a few 100.000 Bucks. No violation of the INF treaty. They could be moved around the canal system and rivers.
So you want to build a barge and a ship to tow it.
Hole- Posts : 7003
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There are already hundreds of tugs in service for that purpose. No need to build them. The barges could be moored most of the time. A floating missile base.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5452
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sure, so if concept is so good why nobody builds this? Simply it aint work, it is easy to trace with sats, slow moving object of high value. 200 Kalibrs is like a quarter of bllion $. + barge + protection+ whatever an done diversion group and bang.Hole wrote:There are already hundreds of tugs in service for that purpose. No need to build them. The barges could be moored most of the time. A floating missile base.
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You mean it would be as easy to destroy as an ICBM base or and long-range radar system like Woronesch? Or the fixed ABM sides in Romania and Poland?
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Only for the sake of information is necessary to recall to everybody that the the central requirement of any modern Navy today ,anywhere around the world, has beenin the last decade the so called "distributed lethality".
The key element of this doctrinal concept is the capability to distribute between much smaller and lighter surface units, capable to independently disperse or converge in specified area using also zones not passable by bigger ships, the firepower now concentrated in bigger surface units.
The obvious advantage is an enormous increase of the survivability of the naval offensive element as a whole (for units like Буян-М capable to employ even the rivers that survivability would even approach the level of the banned ground-based long range cruise missile platforms) in particular against air based attacks that should be forced to split among each indipendent targets falling easy prey of air defense or interceptor ambushs and an enormous complication of the enemy ISR tasks , particularly space based ones.
Буян-М is the perfect incarnation of this modern naval warfare concept that also over the ocean are actively attempting to follow ,even if with a substantial technological backlog in comparison with domestic companies, that at today has not allowed the US to produce anything smaller and better equiped than the LCS.
Is news of few days ago that the Norwegian Kongsberg "Naval Strike Missile" has been selected as the future cruise missile selected for this US class of ships attempting to apply the "distributed lethality" concept (large cruise missile initialization and separation from ships of similar tonnage, in particular Буян-М one, is an incredibly complex feat that US engineers have to still to master) ,anyone can easily understand the crushing difference, even under a strategical, not merely tactical point of view, with a Буян-М armed with Калибр.
I believe that is not necessary, for what said until now, point out how the idea of barges with high number of offensive weapons would contradict the basis trend of medern naval requirements and doctrine, producing the effects opposites of what previously highlighted : substantial reduction of the survivability of the sea-based offensive pontential and the facilitation of the enemy ISR efforts.
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Nope.
If you put cruise missiles an barges camouflaged as transports for coal or timber or put containers with Kalibr missiles onto river container ships or freighters and then let the enemy know what you did, he would have to monitor all river shipping in Russia. Which would be nearly impossible to do. The enemy would still try it and spend billions and billions.
You could also build a few barges with silos without putting missiles in them. Or reload missiles from one to another. The enemy would still have to treat any barge or freighter as an important target which he had to attack. You could lay a trap and deploy air defence assets in the near of this fake or empty targets.
In the meantime your real assets could attack the enemy.
If you put cruise missiles an barges camouflaged as transports for coal or timber or put containers with Kalibr missiles onto river container ships or freighters and then let the enemy know what you did, he would have to monitor all river shipping in Russia. Which would be nearly impossible to do. The enemy would still try it and spend billions and billions.
You could also build a few barges with silos without putting missiles in them. Or reload missiles from one to another. The enemy would still have to treat any barge or freighter as an important target which he had to attack. You could lay a trap and deploy air defence assets in the near of this fake or empty targets.
In the meantime your real assets could attack the enemy.
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Hole wrote:Nope.
If you put cruise missiles an barges camouflaged as transports for coal or timber or put containers with Kalibr missiles onto river container ships or freighters and then let the enemy know what you did, he would have to monitor all river shipping in Russia. Which would be nearly impossible to do. The enemy would still try it and spend billions and billions.
You could also build a few barges with silos without putting missiles in them. Or reload missiles from one to another. The enemy would still have to treat any barge or freighter as an important target which he had to attack. You could lay a trap and deploy air defence assets in the near of this fake or empty targets.
In the meantime your real assets could attack the enemy.
Or just use civilian trucks that carry containers... they have thousand of them in every country. Cheaper, far harder to detect which one carry kalibr container and not affected by the river geography you can launch from anywhere you want your missiles.
Hole- Posts : 7003
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But would violate the INF treaty so max. range of 500km.
Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.
Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.
Isos- Posts : 9711
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Hole wrote:But would violate the INF treaty so max. range of 500km.
Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.
INF works during peace time ... containers and missiles can be stocked in navy bases to be "used" on ships oor boats or barges but at day one they can just put it on trucks that are parked in the port ...
The containers are totally independent of the carrier. And not fixed on them. You can move them from one to another in 5 minutes max with civilian infrastructures, no need military trucks for them.
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