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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:56 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Don't forget that it only takes a Lithuania to brake down an empire. If Greece, let alone Spain or Italy leave EU or Euro then it's over and let me repeat at this point that Greece really need THE SLIGHTEST signal and we are off. Actually the situation here grows so hugely proRussian that if they don;t find a way to feed all those unemployed anytime soon they will go out waving Russian flags like we are in Donetsk and believe me this is quite nasty for a country that have never faced setbacks in her history like US.

    And this is not my wishful thinking, this is poorly my intelligence living here.

    Haha, honestly I'm all for a Byzantine union-state between Greece and Russia. Entrance into the Custom's Union maybe? I think that it's quite possible for Greece's economy to be reformed, industrialised, etc... for it to become a viable, successful economy that's tied to Russia via Black Sea trade. But it needs to improve relations with Turkey too - antagonism with Turkey holds absolutely no value for Greece right now.
    Then a production-trade belt can be formed of Russia-Crimea-Turkey-Greece, and then further up into the Balkans.

    You guys should break-out those tricolors already, get the EU technocrats sweating.
    It will be perfect now - just what's needed; a 2nd front.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:07 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    In fact, the Ukraine keeping its Eastern provinces for now is somewhat of a blessing in disguise; it pretty much guarantees that the country will be an economic Afghanistan for anyone sinking money into it - because there is no way to make all those industries in the East profitable or even sustainable without sinking in dozens of billions of dollars into them in addition to the dozens of billions of dollars needed just to stabilise the Ukrainian economy. Huge amounts of money is needed in order to retool and modernise those industries, and have them create something that would be in demand in European markets.
    Simply put - all the money that the US and EU will be putting into the Ukraine, they might as well be throwing into a black hole - there is no possible return on it for them and this is going to create considerable economic pressure on the entire EU.

    LOL, you cannot be more wrong than that  Smile 

    Just think about it: if Ukraine is such a "black hole" as you describe, then why EU want it so badly?

    lol, they don't - they just wanted it as a springboard against Russia, and spoil Russia's own plans there - and didn't expect Russia to react in such a way.
    They didn't particularly care even if the Ukrainian economy did sink - because they had no obligation towards it.
    Now they do. More than that, now they are going to have to start funding the Ukrainian military in order to get out of the shit shape its in, etc... = even more money they have to spend.

    For the first day or so after the Junta grabbed power in Kiev - they tried reaching out to Russia while at the same time urging respect for their 'European course'. Didn't work out that way.
    But I think that it's obvious to anyone in Europe, that if Russia decides to cut economic ties with the Ukraine and tear up agreements, investments, etc... then the Ukrainian economy will have no chance of being salvaged, no matter what association agreements, visa-free agreements, free trade agreements or whatever else.


    In those bolded parts, you're wrong. EU doesn't want any springboards, plan spoiling, whatever, they just aren't interested in geopolitics the way, let's say, USA is.
    The only interest they have in Ukraine, is it's market.
    Even if Ukraine's economy collapses, as you say, SO WHAT?

    People are still gonna live there, they would still need cars, telephones, fridges, computers, they'd still be consuming electricity.
    And with weak or collapsing Ukraine's economy, guess who will be mostly providing those products? Smile
    EU countries, of course.
    And how Ukrainians will repay for those products?
    By selling natural resources, foodstuffs, lending their land for, let's say, waste disposal, or agriculture.

    As you see, that's an almost perfect business model- buying commodities and selling finished products.
    If you had read some history, you should know, that this is how colonialism system worked in 19th- early 20th centuries. The "sellers" had become incredibly rich as a result.

    I have to say - you may be right

    And it may just be what the EU will be shooting for now. Letting the Ukraine default, and then just grabbing the assets for rock-bottom prices.

    Right now though, they're not getting any returns, although the money they are promising is very modest and won't prevent a default. Moreover they are making it conditional on disarmament of militias, which is going to be a very difficult condition to fulfill.
    Japan has promised $1.5 billion.
    America about $1-2 billion.
    EU is pitching in for an IMF loan (on very harsh conditions)
    Australia, Canada - I dunno, probably some smaller contributions.

    And then there is the arms supplies and assistance to the Ukrainian military.

    But basically yeah, it's all peanuts. The EU might decide to simply wait for the Ukrainian economy to collapse.

    Yatsenyuk has already transfered the Ukraine's Scythian gold artifacts to the US according to some sources; that's what that transport plane that took off from Borispol a few weeks back contained.
    They are used as collatoral for US financial assistance to the Ukraine.
    So perhaps, the West is already getting some return after all..
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:07 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Don't forget that it only takes a Lithuania to brake down an empire. If Greece, let alone Spain or Italy leave EU or Euro then it's over and let me repeat at this point that Greece really need THE SLIGHTEST signal and we are off. Actually the situation here grows so hugely proRussian that if they don;t find a way to feed all those unemployed anytime soon they will go out waving Russian flags like we are in Donetsk and believe me this is quite nasty for a country that have never faced setbacks in her history like US.

    And this is not my wishful thinking, this is poorly my intelligence living here.

    Haha, honestly I'm all for a Byzantine union-state between Greece and Russia.
    Enterance into the Custom's Union maybe?

    You guys should break-out those tricolors already, get the EU technocrats sweating.
    It will be perfect now - just what's needed; a 2nd front.


    Yeah actually the problem Soviet Union or Russia had until very recently was that she was too damn poor to take advance of this developments and natural relations. So much that even Serbians had to be on their own and Chinese (being even more clever) had to pretend that they ally with US to steel know how.
    The point is that situation with the economic condition is so harsh that frustration against US led West grows regardless BUT in order this to work really needs money.
    eg In Ukraine East (notice I say East not Russia) was able to propose an offer better than anything West could do, if this turn out to be the case with counties inside EU as well you will see miracles.


    Last edited by Hannibal Barca on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  etaepsilonk Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:08 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Don't forget that it only takes a Lithuania to brake down an empire. If Greece, let alone Spain or Italy leave EU or Euro then it's over

    Yes, you're absolutely correct.
    You should watch this, if you haven't already (skip to 7:10 for the interesting part)
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:37 pm

    Obama proving he suffers from an acute case of solipsism:

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:42 pm

    IMF Grim Reaper meets the Iron-Maidan:

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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:07 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Obama proving he suffers from an acute case of solipsism:



    The man is visibly panicked. I mean you real don't need to be a professional psychologist and body language expert to come to this conclusion.
    He has all the body signs, he is virtually shacking, his voice is changed, his spelling and his sayings.
    I mean listen what he is saying....he is crying like baby literally.
    He is there to boost the moral of his puppets who are utterly shaken. Timoshenko really said everything:
    They where NOT expecting Russia to step in. They were NOT expecting USA to seem so damn weak.
    From the signal I get from this video and others let me risk a prediction:
    They seem to have concrete information that Russians don't intend to stop in Crimea.
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    Post  Austin Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:58 am

    In Crimea, Russia May Have Gotten a Jump on West by Evading U.S. Eavesdropping

    U.S. Scurries to Shore Up Spying on Russia

    By Adam Entous,Julian E. Barnes and Siobhan Gorman


    Updated March 24, 2014 1:48 a.m. ET



    A look at the holes in U.S. intelligence in the run up to the Crimea takeover and the scramble to address them. WSJ's national security correspondent Adam Entous joins the News Hub with the exclusive. Photo: Getty.


    U.S. military satellites spied Russian troops amassing within striking distance of Crimea last month. But intelligence analysts were surprised because they hadn't intercepted any telltale communications where Russian leaders, military commanders or soldiers discussed plans to invade.



    America's vaunted global surveillance is a vital tool for U.S. intelligence services, especially as an early-warning system and as a way to corroborate other evidence. In Crimea, though, U.S. intelligence officials are concluding that Russian planners might have gotten a jump on the West by evading U.S. eavesdropping. (Follow the latest developments on the crisis in Ukraine.)




    "Even though there was a warning, we didn't have the information to be able to say exactly what was going to happen," a senior U.S. official says.



    To close the information gap, U.S. spy agencies and the military are rushing to expand satellite coverage and communications-interception efforts across Russia, Ukraine and the Baltic states. U.S. officials hope the "surge" in assets and analysts will improve tracking of the Russian military and tip off the U.S. to any possible intentions of Russian President Vladimir Putin before he acts on them.



    The U.S. moves will happen quickly. "We have gone into crisis-response mode," a senior official says.

    Still, as Russia brings additional forces to areas near the border with eastern Ukraine, America's spy chiefs are worried that Russian leaders might be able to cloak their next move by shielding more communications from the U.S., according to officials familiar with the matter. "That is the question we're all asking ourselves," one top U.S. official says.



    The Obama administration is "very nervous," says a person close to the discussions. "This is uncharted territory."



    It all comes amid the backdrop of a worried government in Kiev. Ukraine's foreign minister said Sunday that the troop buildup is increasing the possibility of war with Russia.


    Months before the takeover, U.S. spy agencies told White House policy makers that Mr. Putin could make a play for Crimea, home to strategically important Russian naval installations. That led to an unsuccessful diplomatic push by the Obama administration.



    When the moment arrived, U.S. attention was focused on the troops on Russian soil. Instead, forces already inside Crimea were spearheading the takeover of the peninsula, before U.S. spy agencies fully realized what was happening.



    Citing conflicting assessments from intelligence agencies, Rep. Michael Rogers, Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, has launched a review of whether spy agencies misjudged Mr. Putin's intentions. Agency officials say the differences were relatively small and reflected the competing analysis that policy makers expect intelligence agencies to conduct.



    Some Obama administration, military and intelligence officials say they doubt the U.S. could have done much differently. Even with a clearer understanding of Mr. Putin's plans, the Obama administration thought it had few options to stop him. U.S. spy chiefs told President Barack Obama three days before the Crimea operation that Russia could take over the peninsula so fast that Washington might find out only when it was done.

    Some U.S. military and intelligence officials say Russia's war planners might have used knowledge about the U.S.'s usual surveillance techniques to change communication methods about the looming invasion. U.S. officials haven't determined how Russia hid its military plans from U.S. eavesdropping equipment that picks up digital and electronic communications.



    Since the end of the Cold War, U.S. spy satellites and other intelligence-gathering assets have been focused less on Russia and more on counterterrorism, the Middle East and Asia, reflecting shifting U.S. priorities.

    "This is the kind of thing young military officers are going to be reading about in their history books," says one senior U.S. official.



    As early as December, U.S. intelligence analysts and diplomats got indications that Mr. Putin had his eye on Crimea. Widespread protests in Kiev against then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych concerned the Kremlin. The analysts and diplomats warned that Moscow could take unspecified measures to protect Russian interests in Crimea if the situation worsened.



    The U.S. military's European Command asked the Pentagon to increase intelligence-collection efforts in the region, including satellite coverage. Images showed what U.S. officials described as typical military movements at Russian bases in Crimea.



    Looking back, some U.S. officials now suspect Russia might have been trickling more highly trained units into Crimea in small numbers. But U.S. intelligence analysts didn't pick up any such indications before the takeover, officials briefed on the intelligence-gathering effort say.



    In early February, Geoffrey Pyatt, the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, dispatched a team of embassy officers to Crimea. The details they brought back were sketchy but raised concerns in diplomatic circles.



    Human-rights activists, members of the Tatar community and other local contacts told the American team that new political groups were being formed in Crimea with a clear anti-Kiev agenda. Yet nothing in the internal reports written about the visit made Mr. Pyatt and other diplomats think Russia was planning to invade, according to officials.



    A turning point came after violence started to grow on Feb. 18, a U.S. intelligence official says. Officials began to examine whether a "rapid change in government" in Kiev would draw Moscow into the conflict militarily.



    U.S. suspicions peaked on Feb. 25, four days before the Russians seized Crimea. Russia's Defense Ministry invited the U.S. military attaché in Moscow to a briefing, where officials spelled out plans for a massive military exercise near Ukraine and Crimea.



    U.S. defense and intelligence officials say they worried the exercise was cover for a move on Ukraine, a tactic Moscow used in 2008 before its intervention in Georgia. Intelligence assessments delivered to policy makers after the briefing put the word "exercises" in quotation marks, reflecting skepticism among analysts. Satellite images showed a clear troop buildup near Ukraine.



    European Command officials again asked for more intelligence-collection resources. The military increased satellite coverage of Ukraine and Russia but couldn't steer too many resources away from Afghanistan, North Korea, Iran and other hot spots, U.S. officials say.



    In Feb. 26 briefings to Mr. Obama and other policy makers, James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, and other spy chiefs singled out Crimea as a flash point. The assessment said the Russian military was likely making preparations for possible operations in Crimea. Mr. Obama was told the operations could be launched with little warning.



    But U.S. intelligence agencies didn't have corroborating evidence. Mr. Putin and other Russian leaders gave little away in internal communications picked up by the U.S. "We didn't have someone saying: 'Let's do this,' " one U.S. official recalls.



    It isn't clear if Russian leaders deliberately avoided communicating about the invasion or simply found a way to do so without detection by the U.S. Another possibility: Mr. Putin made a last-minute decision to seize Crimea—and told almost no one other than those responsible for carrying out the invasion. Some U.S. and U.K. officials believe that Russia's takeover plan was drawn up in advance and ready to go, reducing the need to discuss it.



    Inside Crimea, Russian troops exercised what U.S. officials describe as extraordinary discipline in their radio and cellphone communications. Remarks that were intercepted by U.S. spy agencies revealed no hint of the plans.



    On Feb. 27, Mr. Pyatt sent an urgent note to Washington. A picture attached to his note showed Russian flags flying at Crimea's parliament building. U.S. officials didn't know if the forces that seized the building were Russian or a rogue unit of the Ukrainian police force involved in the crackdown on protesters in Kiev.



    There were no Americans on the ground in Crimea to check reports of Russian military movements, U.S. officials say. The U.S. also didn't have drones overhead to gather real-time intelligence, officials say. That increased the U.S.'s reliance on satellite imagery and information gleaned from an analysis of social media, which was muddled by Russian disinformation. State Department officials declined to discuss any technical-intelligence activities.



    If Mr. Putin decided to launch a takeover, many U.S. intelligence analysts thought he would use troops participating in the military exercises. Officials now say they underestimated the quality of Russian forces inside Crimea.



    One intelligence official says the U.S. had "definitive information that Russia was using its military to take control of the peninsula" by the night of Feb. 27, declining to be more specific. The next morning, as armed gunmen in unmarked uniforms seized strategic points in Crimea, U.S. intelligence agencies told policy makers that the gunmen likely were Russian troops.



    Still, the consensus assessment from Mr. Clapper's office to Mr. Obama couldn't assign "high confidence" to reports that Russia was seizing Crimea by force because of a lack of corroborating information.



    Later on Feb. 28, Mr. Obama issued his final public warning to Mr. Putin about violating Ukraine's sovereignty. By then, though, the Crimean peninsula was under Russian military control, U.S. intelligence officials said later.



    Pentagon officials say much of their real-time intelligence came from local reports filed through the embassy in Kiev. The defense attache and other embassy officials worked the phones, calling Ukrainian border patrol and navy contacts. Some of those contacts told the Americans they were burning sensitive documents and reported details of Russian movements.



    U.S. military officials also made urgent calls to their counterparts in Russia. Not surprisingly, Russian military officials offered little information. Some of them claimed to be surprised. "It was classic maskirovka," says a senior U.S. official, using the Russian word for camouflage. Spies use the word to describe Moscow's tradition of sophisticated deception tactics.
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    Post  Austin Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:25 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Obama proving he suffers from an acute case of solipsism:



    The man is visibly panicked. I mean you real don't need to be a professional psychologist and body language expert to come to this conclusion.
    He has all the body signs, he is virtually shacking, his voice is changed, his spelling and his sayings.
    I mean listen what he is saying....he is crying like baby literally.
    He is there to boost the moral of his puppets who are utterly shaken. Timoshenko really said everything:
    They where NOT expecting Russia to step in. They were NOT expecting USA to seem so damn weak.
    From the signal I get from this video and others let me risk a prediction:
    They seem to have concrete information that Russians don't intend to stop in Crimea.

    Not Really .....He is carefully choosing his words while replying and so he is thinking and talking.

    Unlike his Seceratary of State John Kerry who talks first and then thinks ..... POTUS is carefully calibrating his words as as not to sound too offensive yet get the message to Russian leadership.
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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:23 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Look LePeen for starters. They had elections this Sunday. She is also expected to be first in May.
    Greece is in the same trend. UK goes for Farage, he will also on top 2. Bullsh@t aside nationalists will be at least third Europewide.

    That's not good enough really; they will still be sidelined by the Atlanticist lapdogs like Cameron, Hollande, Merkel & co.. not even to mention Von Rompuy, Barrosso and the ruling clan in the EU which isn't elected by the population at all and is hardwired pro-US.

    Really, I just fail to share your optimism regarding any sort of change in the EU's political orientation - it's far too set in stone, and national elections are altogether just a small part of it.
    Whoever is voted into power - will either come to an accommodation with the US and the Euro-Atlantic orientation - or they just won't keep power past the next election.
    Klaus, Chirac, Shroder, Orban are among the most notable politicians that wanted to expand partnership with Russia and move away from Brussels and/or Washington for this or that reason - but even with them, their hands were always pretty much tied, and they acted mainly just in terms of economic relations.

    Yesterday in Greece was a national celebration , the revelution against the Turks. In the parade everyone was expected to see the S300 (transfered from Crete for the parade). But the last momment , an order came from the other side of the Atlantic and the S300 did not participate in the parade !!! (only some old US/Hwaks and old OSA)
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:05 am

    Austin wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Obama proving he suffers from an acute case of solipsism:



    The man is visibly panicked. I mean you real don't need to be a professional psychologist and body language expert to come to this conclusion.
    He has all the body signs, he is virtually shacking, his voice is changed, his spelling and his sayings.
    I mean listen what he is saying....he is crying like baby literally.
    He is there to boost the moral of his puppets who are utterly shaken. Timoshenko really said everything:
    They where NOT expecting Russia to step in. They were NOT expecting USA to seem so damn weak.
    From the signal I get from this video and others let me risk a prediction:
    They seem to have concrete information that Russians don't intend to stop in Crimea.

    Not Really .....He is carefully choosing his words while replying and so he is thinking and talking.

    Unlike his Seceratary of State John Kerry who talks first and then thinks ..... POTUS is carefully calibrating his words as as not to sound too offensive yet get the message to Russian leadership.


    Well I will not insist in this, I am not an expert just an enthusiastic amateur, but if you watch him stepping out of the podium he is uncertain and he is looking for aim like we say.
    Also the way he crosses his hands while talking, and his voice which if you observe carefully sounds lighter than usual.
    An other point, in the beginning when replying to a journalist saying "Russia is a regional power" he is turning his body away from the reporter and looks in the opposite direction. This is really a dead giveaway that the man denies the reality and want to disengage from the situation. I mean really if we have an agent among us he will certainly confirm my assessments.
    But anyway lets stop it here.
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    Post  Viktor Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:22 am

    My vote Austin.

    The best article in a very looong time  thumbsup  Apparently US is getting all fussed up for providing fundamentaly wrong info about expected Russian moves.

    Classic maskirovka  Very Happy 
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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:56 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 27 Timos1
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 27 Timos2


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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:03 am

    Notorious Ukrainian nationalist militant shot dead in police raid (GRAPHIC PHOTO)

    Notorious Ukrainian right-wing militant leader Aleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, has been shot dead during a police raid against his gang, confirmed Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior.

    Muzychko was killed in Rovno, western Ukraine, where he coordinated actions of local groups belonging to the nationalist Right Sector movement, a national Ukrainian news media outlet reported.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 27 BjjAWZACIAAI0rj


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    Post  etaepsilonk Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:49 pm

    To Austin:
    Thank you for this article.
    I think that the main reason for US to miss the Russian invasion was ignore of local forces, 810th brigade, probably guessing that they were too subpar to pull this off alone.

    And ironically, from what I gathered, they appear to be making the same mistake again for south east  Smile
    Because too many of their intelligence reports seem to be concentrated on possible "red army zergrush", and too few on these guys, for example: 
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:12 pm

    Crimean crisis: former Chancellor Schmidt defends Putin's Ukraine Course

    Helmut Schmidt is Russia's actions in the Crimea "understandable" sanctions he considers "foolishness". The situation in Ukraine is indeed dangerous - the blame does the former chancellor, however, the West.

    Hamburg - Former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt takes the approach of Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Crimea "perfectly understandable". The Schmidt said of the weekly newspaper "Die Zeit", whose editor he is.

    Fierce criticism practiced Schmidt on handling of the West with the Crimean crisis. The sanctions adopted by the European Union and the United States against Russia, he referred to as "nonsense". Further economic sanctions would not achieve its goal Schmidt's opinion. Also, they had mainly symbolic significance, "but she hit the west just like the Russians".
    With Schmidt's word messages now get those support in the German debate about promoting understanding for Moscow . Similarly, previously had also ex-chancellor and party colleague Gerhard Schröder expressed .

    Schmidt also criticized the decision of the West , no longer cooperate with Russia in the framework of the G8. "It would be ideal to get together now. It would certainly be the peace digestible than the threatening with sanctions." Schmidt added: "The G8 is really not as important as the G20 from the G20 you have the Russians have not rauskomplimentiert.."

    West could "stimulate appetite Russia"

    Schmidt called the situation in Ukraine "dangerous, because the West is upset terribly." This leads to, "that this excitement of the West, of course, provides for the corresponding excitement in the Russian public opinion and policy." On the policies of Chancellor Angela Merkel of the 95-year-old said: "Here's a praise for the care of the German Chancellor is appropriate."
    When asked if he was an intervention of Russia could also imagine in eastern Ukraine, answers the former Chancellor: "I refrain from speculation I think it's possible, but I think it is an error if the West pretends. whether the inevitable is the next step. This means that he might on the Russian side's appetite. "

    Schröder had in early March is particularly critical of the EU's rate against the Ukraine and Europe, where a share of responsibility in the Crimean crisis.

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/helmut-schmidt-verteidigt-in-krim-krise-putins-ukraine-kurs-a-960834.html
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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:15 pm

    all pigs .. the same face..
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 27 Big
    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/poroshenko-leads-presidential-election-poll-338730.html
    Ukrainian oligarch aka CIA Operative Petro Poroshenko 'Chocolate King' Ukrainian MP and backer of the Euromaidan protests in Kiev With The Flag Wants to be Ukraine President

    Ukraine's seventh richest man, according to Forbes magazine, with an estimated fortune of $1.3bn (£787m), Mr Poroshenko was a supporter of the Maidan protests that ultimately led to the overthrow of Ukraine's president Viktor Yanukovych last month.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Naftogaz: Ukraine plans from May 1 to increase gas price for public by 50%
    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/naftogaz-ukraine-plans-from-may-1-to-increase-gas-price-for-public-by-50-340998.html


    Last edited by arpakola on Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:40 pm

    "EU sanctions against Russia to cripple European economy" – Euro MP Pino Arlacchi

    The EU sanctions against Russia would cripple the European economy instead, Euro MP Pino Arlacchi. "The position of the European Union should be different from the US position. Europe should not insist on the extension of sanctions. These sanctions are unwise. In fact, they are directed against us," he said.

    Arlacchi believes that the European Union would not be pushing the sanctions further. "Europe has every reason to cooperate with the Russian Federation, there is no obstacle for this," he said, adding that the US has a completely different position.
    "The US wants to become a global government, and any country that does not agree with this, becomes their enemy. The relations between Russia and the US are likely to stay tensed," the Euro MP said.
    The Ukrainian crisis was provoked by the EU interference with the internal affairs of the country, Euro MP Pino Arlacchi said.
    "The EU supported the rebellion in Ukraine, without taking into account that Ukraine is a complicated country," he said. Most of Ukraine is pro-Russian and even speaks Russian language, Arlacchi noted.
    "We have supported a mild revolution... But we did not take into account the presence of the fascist elements in the new government. Five ministers have ties with the neo-Nazi ideology in their biographies. Bashfully we avert our eyes from seeing what is happening," the politician confessed.

    The US President Barak Obama has decided to visit Amsterdam, Haag, Brussels, Vatican, Rome and the Saudi Arabia. During his visits, Obama is to discuss Ukrainian issue with the countries’ officials. The US has to fulfill its plan, aimed at separation of Ukraine from Russia. After the Crimea decided to integrate with Russia, the plan took a different option from what the US had primarily expected. Some experts think that Obama will "accidentally" come to Kiev in order to support the legitimacy of the current Ukrainian government.
    Current speech of the White House and the Department of State assume that there would be a lot of anti-Russian rhetoric during Obama’s visits. On March 26, Obama is to deliver a geopolitical speech, which is likely to be anti-Russian, in Brussels. Brussels will hold the EU-US conference and meeting with the Secretary General of NATO. Obama is to participate in the nuclear safety conference in Haag and urgent summit of G7. He is likely to lobby trade sanctions against Russia.
    The results of the meeting with the Secretary General of NATO are evident. The meeting with the EU countries is a complicated issue. President Obama will try to persuade the EU to impose sanctions against Russia, but he can hardly do this. European nations don’t want to be an instrument in the hands of the US, paying for this with sanctions against Russia.
    It’s hard to imagine that Europe will begin an economic fight against Russia, Natalia Kalinina, the Institute of World Economy and International Relations analyst, says.
    "Today’s world economy is interrelated, so any wrong decision can destroy the system. That’s why talks about sanctions won’t end with any actions. In fact, the US is trying to put pressure upon the EU, but the latter will keep its economic relations with Russia.
    There would be no Obama’s visits, if the US hadn’t failed to fulfill its "Ukrainian scenario", European media says. There have been no EU-US conferences under the rule of President Obama. European countries became enraged after they found out that the US National Security Agency had used wiretapping against the EU officials. Obama refused to sign an agreement that would guarantee the disuse of such tools. If there was no conflict in Ukraine, Obama would face a numerous accusations from the part of the EU. The White House hopes that Ukrainian crisis, provoked with the help of the US, will help to overshadow Europeans’ discontent.
    "If the Ukrainian crisis hadn’t occurred, President Obama would have held another type of conference with the EU," Heather Conley, Head of European projects at the Washington Center for strategic and internationals studies, says. Ukrainian issue discussions are to "smooth things over in the EU-US relations, but they won’t help to abandon the problems".
    Nowadays, European media prefers to stick to anti-Russian rhetoric. However, the public opinion is changing. Today, the Independent published an article of Sir Tony Brenton, former British ambassador in Russia. He can hardly be called a "supporter of Russia". Ex-ambassador proposes to recognize the Crimea’s integration with Russia.
    In this article Brenton enumerates all real as well as pretended reasons of Russian complaints against the West – NATO extension to the East, support of Chechen separatists, Russophobe former president of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili and semi-fascist government in Kiev. He proposes not to threaten Russia with sanctions and isolation, but to resume a dialogue.
    Russia is ready for such a dialogue, Vilen Ivanov, councilor of Russian Academy of Sciences, says. The fact that Russia doesn’t response on the US bank sanctions is the proof of this intention.
    "The fact that Russia doesn’t impose reciprocal sanctions means that Russian government acts wisely as this step couldn’t ameliorate the international relations. It might also show that Russia regards sanctions seriously."
    Without considering Russian interests and concerns, there would be no Ukrainian crisis settlement, Vilen Ivanov says. The US is better to listen to Brenton’s opinion, because the US rarely listens to such statements from the country’s most devoted partner in Europe.
    "Though the West has managed to unite in imposing minor sanctions, it can hardly do the same with major sanctions, which would hit our own economies. Ukraine, even without the Crimea, is so closely connected to Russia that it would never gain prosperity without Moscow".
    "While not imposing reciprocal sanctions against the EU and the US, Russia shows its readiness to begin a dialogue. European ministers, especially Britain’s PM, should come to meet Russia. Western officials should take into account real concerns of Russia about the fact that the West is about to swallow Ukraine."

    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_25/EU-sanctions-against-Russia-to-cripple-European-economy-Euro-MP-Pino-Arlacchi-9216/"]

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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:07 pm


    Servicemen of ukrainian 1st naval infantry batalion leave Crimea

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 27 Original
    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:05 pm




    http://en.ria.ru/world/20140326/188766094/Ultranationalists-Death-Signals-Split-Between-Maidan-Leaders-.html



    ohh yes
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:14 pm

    So basically Russia got 5 old corvettes and a bunch of useless and outdated transport ships..many coastal patrol boats civilian like and a ready to scrap for metal tiny electric submarine. Ukraine retain their best warship a Frigate and others important ships. Not that i complain , and is better than nothing for sure .
    But not impressive what Russia gets .
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    Post  navyfield Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:26 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Austin wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Obama proving he suffers from an acute case of solipsism:



    The man is visibly panicked. I mean you real don't need to be a professional psychologist and body language expert to come to this conclusion.
    He has all the body signs, he is virtually shacking, his voice is changed, his spelling and his sayings.
    I mean listen what he is saying....he is crying like baby literally.
    He is there to boost the moral of his puppets who are utterly shaken. Timoshenko really said everything:
    They where NOT expecting Russia to step in. They were NOT expecting USA to seem so damn weak.
    From the signal I get from this video and others let me risk a prediction:
    They seem to have concrete information that Russians don't intend to stop in Crimea.

    Not Really .....He is carefully choosing his words while replying and so he is thinking and talking.

    Unlike his Seceratary of State John Kerry who talks first and then thinks ..... POTUS is carefully calibrating his words as as not to sound too offensive yet get the message to Russian leadership.


    Well I will not insist in this, I am not an expert just an enthusiastic amateur, but if you watch him stepping out of the podium he is uncertain and he is looking for aim like we say.
    Also the way he crosses his hands while talking, and his voice which if you observe carefully sounds lighter than usual.
    An other point, in the beginning when replying to a journalist saying "Russia is a regional power" he is turning his body away from the reporter and looks in the opposite direction. This is really a dead giveaway that the man denies the reality and want to disengage from the situation. I mean really if we have an agent among us he will certainly confirm my assessments.
    But anyway lets stop it here.
    The Serbia did help Russia allot by taking on full fury of nato in europe during 90s and throwing their attention away from CIS and keeping them busy for several years ,also showing undesisive heads in kremlin that nato hates russia as an entity ,no matter if its communist, kapitalist ,whatever ,and doesnt care about international law and justice at all ,if it conflicts their interests.
    If it wasnt for serbian resistance ukraine would be in nato like romania and eu candidate...lost for Russia.
    They bought enough time for Russia to get up, recover its streinght ,and make a comeback.
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    Post  Viktor Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:32 pm

    Vann7 wrote:So basically Russia got 5 old corvettes and a bunch of useless and outdated transport ships..many coastal patrol boats civilian like and a ready to scrap for metal tiny electric submarine. Ukraine retain their best warship a Frigate and others important ships. Not that i complain , and is better than nothing for sure .
    But not impressive what Russia gets .

    But also got 3 S-300PM regiments and 40 MiG-29 that needs repairing.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:35 pm

    Vann7 wrote:So basically Russia got 5 old corvettes and a bunch of useless and outdated transport ships..many coastal patrol boats civilian like and a ready to scrap for metal tiny electric submarine. Ukraine retain their best warship a Frigate and others important ships. Not that i complain , and is better than nothing for sure .
    But not impressive what Russia gets .

    The corvettes are no older than what Russia operates. Same with the support and transport ships.

    Ukraine got the raw end of this deal, no doubt. They basically have no Navy anymore.
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    Post  etaepsilonk Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:56 pm

    Not S-300PM, just simple PS.

    I must say, that all that captured equipment is essentially garbage (except that Ropucha), which will likely end up in Syria or something, or as spare parts.

    If you russkies want something more sophisticated, maybe it's time to prop up some diego garcia self defence force?  Twisted Evil   Laughing



    TR1:
    "Ukraine got the raw end of this deal, no doubt. They basically have no Navy anymore."

    Hey, how dare you to undermine the mighty Ukrainian navy?
    Didn't you hear that program to make it stronger than ever before is already underway? Rolling Eyes 
     Wink 

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