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Big_Gazza
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    Zubr-class LCAC

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:36 pm

    The_Observer wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Impressive footage... especially the internal shooting position showed at the end.

    The outside external firing position is for shooting at mines and things in the water or visible on the beach but the internal position uses both guns and is for shooting down threats and hostile air targets.

    Nice.

    I was under the impression that AK-630 family of CIWS were fully automated/automatic. Such that target tracking and firing are done via software. But from the video, it appears as though the shooter is actually able to manually manipulate the gun itself.

    These are not CIWS variety

    AK-630 here is is manual with slower rate of fire and is used instead of heavy machine guns

    They got the same setup on original three Buyan ships

    The_Observer likes this post

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:51 am

    I was under the impression that AK-630 family of CIWS were fully automated/automatic. Such that target tracking and firing are done via software. But from the video, it appears as though the shooter is actually able to manually manipulate the gun itself.

    They are, but they have backup modes for targets the radars are not great at detecting and tracking... like small targets in the water like surfaced mines or divers or small boats.

    These are not CIWS variety

    AK-630 here is is manual with slower rate of fire and is used instead of heavy machine guns

    They got the same setup on original three Buyan ships

    There are lots of versions of the AK-630 and all are CIWS weapons.

    The system I think you mean is the AK-306 which looks the same but has a rate of fire of 800-1,000 rpm and is not water cooled and is intended for lighter boats and is generally only controlled manually by the pedestal mount and the internal gunners position.

    The AK-630 is generally linked to a computer system but can be used in a variety of ways including one gun mount controlled externally by a person on the pedestal aiming system for shooting things close to the ship, often in the water like a floating mine or diver or small boat. It can also be manually aimed using the internal position shown in the video above with video view of the target through night vision optics controlling both guns at one time... this would also be used to fire on targets on a beach when landing that are not easily detected by the radar system.

    To defend the vessel against anti ship weapons the radars can direct the guns and fire on small fast moving targets in a CIWS role too.

    The Duet also has two AK-630 guns, as do the Kashtan and Palma and Pantsir naval systems which fire about 5,000 rpm... the gun is related to the 30mm 6 barrel gatling gun fitted to the MiG-27 and to some aircraft carried gun pods.

    The AK-306 is lighter and simpler and cheaper and when shooting at targets on the shore or in the water does not waste so much ammo with its lower rate of fire... but it is not so good against enemy aircraft.

    AK-306

    The AK-630 has four times more ammo on the gun mount and fires at 5 times the rate of fire... 2000 rounds and 5,000 rpm (compared with 500 rounds and 1,000 rpm.

    AK-630
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:55 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:34 pm

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/07/more-zubr-class-amphibious-assault-hovercraft-for-the-chinese-navy/

    Article a few month old but still relevant.
    China is building new zubr class giant hovercrafts.

    I am curious to know what engine they will mount on them.

    Russia wanted to restart production in 2017 but until now no real news were given.

    By the way, this is another example of how Ukraine has sold out for pennies all the Soviet (Russian) technologies that they have, even if not developed in their country but only manufactured.

    Since basically Antonov and Motor sich have shared everything possible with China, I can imagine that Zorya mashproekt did the same about naval engines.

    So again China is now a manufacturing giant, but without having received almost for free all of the soviet development (destroyers, amphibious ships, aircraft carriers, carrier borne planes, aircraft engine technology, aircraft design, etc) I doubt that they would have reached this capability.

    Unfortunately I doubt china will repay the favour (unless they go tits up) and share their secret technologies in the sectors were Russia is behind or help Russia setting up production of all components it needs to import substitute.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:14 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:China is building new zubr class giant hovercrafts.
    I am curious to know what engine they will mount on them.
    Would not be surprised if the Chinese cloned the gas turbine engines made in Ukraine.

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Russia wanted to restart production in 2017 but until now no real news were given.
    UEC Saturn has finished development of the M70FRU gas turbine last I heard of it several years ago. The Russians also control the shipyard where the Zubr was built that was in Crimea. But I never heard of any Russian government order for new Zubr.

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:By the way, this is another example of how Ukraine has sold out for pennies all the Soviet (Russian) technologies that they have, even if not developed in their country but only manufactured.

    Since basically Antonov and Motor sich have shared everything possible with China, I can imagine that Zorya mashproekt did the same about naval engines.
    Not everything. The Ukrainians didn't give them licenses to build any modern aviation or helicopter engines. The Chinese were still importing Al-222 engines for the L-15 trainer until recently at least.

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:So again China is now a manufacturing giant, but without having received almost for free all of the soviet development (destroyers, amphibious ships, aircraft carriers, carrier borne planes, aircraft engine technology, aircraft design, etc) I doubt that they would have reached this capability.

    Unfortunately I doubt china will repay the favour (unless they go tits up) and share their secret technologies in the sectors were Russia is behind or help Russia setting up production of all components it needs to import substitute.
    And why exactly should China pay back Russia for something that Ukraine provided them with? As for Ukraine, given its total switch to the US camp and cutting ties with China with regards to cooperation with their MIC, I doubt they will get much in return for the relation either. China not sending weapons to Russia and paying lip service with regards to a cease fire is probably as much as they can hope for.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:45 am

    Unfortunately I doubt china will repay the favour (unless they go tits up) and share their secret technologies in the sectors were Russia is behind or help Russia setting up production of all components it needs to import substitute.

    China already agreed to trade rocket secrets for electronics secrets in the past.

    Also... who is to say that the engines in these new Zubrs are Chinese or Ukrainian... maybe they are Russian?

    China not sending weapons to Russia and paying lip service with regards to a cease fire is probably as much as they can hope for.

    We don't know what is going on there... China does not have Russia under sanction and so if Russia asked for 10 million 152mm artillery shells to be made I don't see why they would refuse.

    China might have reverse engineered these engines but these engines are used in other forms in other ship types so it is not like they are making a hovercraft engine for a couple of dozen hovercraft... these engines can power frigates and other ship types, which is why Russia is working on reverse engineering them too.

    Maybe China knows Russia is reverse engineering them too and has ordered a few engines for Russia... China would get the engines they want and with funding get them sooner and cheaper than they could get them if they reverse engineered themselves. Russia would get ship engine propulsion production capacity and make a few sales to China for their hovercraft, but could use the engines in their Corvettes and Frigates which they could shift to serial mass production.

    Or they are both working separately and those are the most expensive engines in the world because they have been designed three times now...

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