PAK-DA: News

Militarov wrote:

Hole wrote:The Tu-22 is out of service since 1993.

He was told so for like 200 times but...

If I remind correctly, for him tu-22 and tu-22M are the same plane with minor upgrade

Isos wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Hole wrote:The Tu-22 is out of service since 1993.

He was told so for like 200 times but...

If I remind correctly, for him tu-22 and tu-22M are the same plane with minor upgrade

IIRC, the Tu-22M designation as a "modified Tu-22" was just a fig-leaf to get around government hostility to paying for yet another supersonic bomber. FA was told they couldn't have another new bird, so they "settled" for "upgrades" to the failed Tu-22. In reality the Tu-22M was virtually an all-new bird which retained some structural components.

Tupolev knew how to "use" politicians.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Isos wrote:If I remind correctly, for him tu-22 and tu-22M are the same plane with minor upgrade

IIRC, the Tu-22M designation as a "modified Tu-22" was just a fig-leaf to get around government hostility to paying for yet another supersonic bomber.  FA was told they couldn't have another new bird, so they "settled" for "upgrades" to the failed Tu-22.  In reality the Tu-22M was virtually an all-new bird which retained some structural components.  

To note that no-one will find the words "minor upgrade" in my comments, but the reality is the reality. Isos is another one using dirty tactics.

In reality the Tu-22 M variants were based on / developed from the Tu-22. They are technologically related aircrafts as you can see in every source, and is perfectly correct to call Tu-22 to the entire technological development, since the early variants until the Tu-22 M3M. Even the Russian Ministry of Defense does it sometimes, like posted in this forum.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2625p725-pak-da-news#202229

http://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/vks/news/more.htm?id=12123314@egNews
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fstructure.mil.ru%2Fstructure%2Fforces%2Fvks%2Fnews%2Fmore.htm%3Fid%3D12123314%40egNews

In reality it was not a failed Tu-22, even early variants remained more than 30 years in active service. Early weaknesses of the design of the Tu-22 were improved, like happens in higher or lower degree to almost every military design, and the Tu-22 as a whole development is a very successful aircraft that will have outstanding performance in the form of the Tu-22 M3M variant, almost 60 years after entering in service.

The shadow of the "flying wing": what will be the combat aviation of the future?

https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/t/20186251451-wadNK.html


Alexei Leonkov, military expert of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland

dino00 wrote:
The shadow of the "flying wing": what will be the combat aviation of the future?

https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/t/20186251451-wadNK.html


Alexei Leonkov, military expert of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland

Would agree with the author, but I guess the PAK-DA will not be as much an strategic missile carrier (or at least it shouldn't) as a multifunctional platform with roles including bombing, reconnaissance, communication node, U(C)AV control etc. In those roles and counting with DEW the extended range and persistence of a flying wing could make sense while speed is not critical

In todays world every aircraft, every military vehicle, is multirole. Modern electronics make it possible. Today every aircraft or tank can use its optics to reconnoitre an area and send the information in real time.

LMFS wrote:

dino00 wrote:
The shadow of the "flying wing": what will be the combat aviation of the future?

https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/t/20186251451-wadNK.html


Alexei Leonkov, military expert of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland

Would agree with the author, but I guess the PAK-DA will not be as much an strategic missile carrier (or at least it shouldn't) as a multifunctional platform with roles including bombing, reconnaissance, communication node, U(C)AV control etc. In those roles and counting with DEW the extended range and persistence of a flying wing could make sense while speed is not critical

The following quote is of the traslation of the article linked by dino00. If something like this happens to a potentially subsonic Tu-PAK-DA, ther is a question:

The fact is that in 1991, American experts were able to get acquainted with the MiG-29, which from the GDR Air Force was in the united FRG. Two planes the Germans handed over to their NATO ally: one for NASA, and the second for the US Air Force. The Americans studied and "wept". It turned out that the MiG-29 apparatus sees the B-2 even against the background of the earth.

Which aircrafts will win the orders for procurement? Being in charge, which option would you order?

- Subsonic Tu-PAK-DA with stealth advantage lost.
- Modernized Tu-160, Modernized Tu-22.

This is the way to analize how critic is the speed for the future Tu-PAK-DA, that should have a cycle of life of approximately 50 years.

They don`t need to rush the PAK-DA, but if you build make it count!

Don`t seem to be a problem for the Russian 6 generation fighter to be hypersonic...why is a heresy to have a hypersonic bomber.

If we are going to keep the strategic aviation we need a replacement.  The Tu-95 was a beast of its day but I am almost embarrassed that we still fly it.  At least we should have built more Tu-160 to replace those until a new generation could be conceived.  If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

Vladimir79 wrote: If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

But Russia will build more tu160m2

dino00 wrote:

But Russia will build more tu160m2

They said it would begin production in 2019, then it was rolled back to 2021 with deliveries in 2022, then 2023.  At this rate it will be 2025 before anything is inducted which is the due date for PAK-DA. The entire time to be flying the old Tu-95.

Vladimir79 wrote:If we are going to keep the strategic aviation we need a replacement.  The Tu-95 was a beast of its day but I am almost embarrassed that we still fly it.  At least we should have built more Tu-160 to replace those until a new generation could be conceived.  If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.

Why would Russia need to be embarrassed for using the Tu-95 while it is useful? It is old but B-52 is older and planned to be serving for a century until 2050s by those guys operating the dollar printing machine...

"Strategic Aviation will be lost". Pease, stop this BS. Like Isos said, the Tu-95MS is a missile carrier. Even a Tu-214 would do it.

Isos wrote:For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.

There is no cruise missile with that range nor will you find any tests of it that far. Every test to date has been under 2000km on the Kamchatka or Kazakhstan ranges. With the vast aerial refueling capabilities of the USAF even their fighters can patrol out to launch points of easily detectable Tu-95.

Hole wrote:"Strategic Aviation will be lost". Pease, stop this BS. Like Isos said, the Tu-95MS is a missile carrier. Even a Tu-214 would do it.

You are missing the point, they do not have the speed or stealth to avoid escape. As I just stated the cruise missile range is nothing like people think it is.

I trust when the manufacturer says it has those ranges. And what MoD also says. So we can "assume" it does vs it doesn't but they state it does so it probably has those ranges.

Khinzal was stated with 3,000km range by the president. Fact is, cruise missiles like Kh-101 would have more

miketheterrible wrote:I trust when the manufacturer says it has those ranges. And what MoD also says. So we can "assume" it does vs it doesn't but they state it does so it probably has those ranges.

Khinzal was stated with 3,000km range by the president. Fact is, cruise missiles like Kh-101 would have more

The manufacturers are not able to state the ranges of strategic weapons as they are classified and has always been the case. It is estimates by scaremonger analysts that make those claims. The only estimate based in fact is demonstrated range.

The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

Putin word

The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact. Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.

dino00 wrote:The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

Putin word

Just because Putin says something that doesn't make it true, Things need to be backed up with facts not "He said, she said".

Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

Say the Americans...

dino00 wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

Say the Americans...

Actually it was the Russian Defence Ministry...

Russian strategic Tu-95 missile carriers struck terrorist targets in Syria using Kh-101 cruise missiles from a distance of around 1,000 km, destroying three large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition as well as a terrorist command post on the border of provinces of Hama and Homs, Russia's Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/07/c_136423482.htm

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

dino00 wrote:The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

Putin word

Just because Putin says something that doesn't make it true, Things need to be backed up with facts not "He said,  she said".

``He`` is the president...should deserve some credibility.
We don`t have proofs to the contrary...by your standard we can`t talk about almost any weapon.
Putin Said it has 4500km range when alot of information, was that the missile had an even greater range.