Russia - USA Relations

"Having committed what is probably one of histories greatest strategic blunders, forcing Russia and China closer together for self preservation over the past 10+ years, they are now faced with the results of those stupid, politically and MIC driven, short term decisions play out over the longer term."

This single sentence, sir, is an exercise in world shaking vast understatement. Apparently both Cookies Nuland and Blinky were told to piss up a rope when they asked Katai to 'urge' Russia to compromise, IOW Russia is supposed to bow to SehSha demands. Won't happen, plus the Chinese tossed this in for future reference: "If Washington provokes either China or Russia, the other one will not be indifferent." That, too, says reams. As I said earlier, Katai has our back as we move west.

And Iran can take care of the Middle East. No reinforcements for Europe from the american bases there.

andalusia wrote:I just found this article stating that their was no promise of NATO not enlarging and Gorbachev says no; I would like an analysis of this article.  

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

Even if there was a full binding treaty to not expand NATO east , the US would have dissolved NATO and made a new anti Russian military alliance and they would have done the same thing. So it's irrelevant.

The Russians wanted to end the cold war. The Americans wanted to keep it doing. End of.

auslander wrote:Statements from these two gentleman change nothing and unlike what Mercouris states, Mother will not wait a year or two years or five years or ten years to address this problem. In 6 months ukeland will be defacto, not officially but defacto, a nato member, ergo Mother will act long before that.

Our Flots have sailed, there are no military men on our local streets, heavy movements of units from the eastern and central military districts heading west. Last evening and afternoon our local shops were totally mobbed, everyone is stocking up. Calm, but stocking up.

But why did Putin wait all these years since 2014 ? I don't buy the idea that they were waiting to develop better weapons. Russia didn't need to develop better weapons to devastate Ukraine.

Honestly , I don't know. What was the last 8 years all about ? Why didn't Russia demand these guarantees in 2015 or 16 ?

Backman wrote:

auslander wrote:Statements from these two gentleman change nothing and unlike what Mercouris states, Mother will not wait a year or two years or five years or ten years to address this problem. In 6 months ukeland will be defacto, not officially but defacto, a nato member, ergo Mother will act long before that.

Our Flots have sailed, there are no military men on our local streets, heavy movements of units from the eastern and central military districts heading west. Last evening and afternoon our local shops were totally mobbed, everyone is stocking up. Calm, but stocking up.

But why did Putin wait all these years since 2014 ? I don't buy the idea that they were waiting to develop better weapons. Russia didn't need to develop better weapons to devastate Ukraine.

Honestly , I don't know. What was the last 8 years all about ? Why didn't Russia demand these guarantees in 2015 or 16 ?

Propably coz Russian economy was more depent in that time from West, so Putin felt Russian economy needed to be sanction proof before steping up where are we today.

The troop movements and preparations are to be expected on the Russian side... they presented the US with their red lines and security concerns and the US replied by saying no, but we can talk about agreements on missiles and location of forces and other such trivial stuff... and it seems to me that Lavrov has essentially said if you don't want to talk about our red lines then there is nothing to talk about...

The really amusing thing is that the western media are so dumb and inconsistent... don't they realise that if 100K Russian soldiers inside Russian territory constitute a real invasion threat to the Ukraine then surely the coming naval exercises off Ireland are surely clear cut evidence of a highly likely invasion of the UK.

Of course troop movements and preparations don't indicate they are going to invade anyone, but it does indicate they don't trust Kiev not to do something stupid or the US or UK mercs also in the vicinity to create a conflict... for which they will be very very ready.

Backman wrote:But why did Putin wait all these years since 2014 ? I don't buy the idea that they were waiting to develop better weapons. Russia didn't need to develop better weapons to devastate Ukraine. Honestly , I don't know. What was the last 8 years all about ? Why didn't Russia demand these guarantees in 2015 or 16 ?

8 years is a lifetime in weapons evolution and procurement. 8 years ago the dust was still settling after the fiasco of Maidan and Sevastopol/Krimea coming home to mother. 8 years ago the total rebuild of Russian Armed Forces was still at a fever pitch after the less than stellar performance of the Gruzya war in '08. 8 years ago the collective west still viewed Mat Rossiya as a neophyte in the diplomatic world, worthy of lip service only.

Today, the collective 'west' shudders at the thought of half the Russian armed forces moving west from the central and east military districts and the entire Russian Navy putting to sea on a moment's notice. Today, the collective 'west' is poleaxed by the combination of Russian diplomacy with the fist of Russian Armed Forces backing her diplomacy.

Today, in addition to Russian diplomacy and her armed forces you have to take into account the very close cooperation between Russia and Katai. This cooperation did not exist 8 years ago but today in no uncertain words Katai has our back as we move west.

None of what I just said existed 8 short years ago. VVP and his team have achieved the Labors of Hercules in these short 8 years. Mayhap you should contact VVP himself and ask him why he didn't 'react' 8 years ago. I think he, Shoigu and Lavrov did. Patience is a virtue and you ain't seen nothin' yet.

I have received reliable informations that have now been verified by a second reliable source. Seems the orcs are packing up 'sensitive documents' and moving them west under guard. Destination is not known but definitely out of the west side of Kiev.

Cat seems to be out of the bag, complements of Spain.

https://elpais.com/infografias/2022/02/respuesta_otan/respuesta_otan_eeuu.pdf

auslander wrote:Cat seems to be out of the bag, complements of Spain.

https://elpais.com/infografias/2022/02/respuesta_otan/respuesta_otan_eeuu.pdf

...It's as we thought, it was a complete Nothing Burger, with a side of non-existent Freedom Fries, complimented with a large Bilk Shake.

Pretty clear what is going to happen... HATO has essentially said Russia or any other country has no right to dictate who can or cannot join HATO.... it is between HATO and the country concerned.

So Putin can therefore say, well in that case any defence agreements with Iran and North Korea and Cuba and Vietnam and Venezuela and Nicaragua and a range of other countries and Russia is none of HATO business... only Russia and China and the countries concerned.

I rather suspect BRICS might expand and get more attention as an economic organisation working to help all the members work together and grow and develop their own countries.

The US rejecting Russian resources is a bad mistake, but pushing those resources and technology and know how to help China and India and the third world might knock them off their pedestal and realise being totally selfish is not going to cut it in the 21st C and moving forward... the world isn't big enough for all countries to act like the US has.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

auslander wrote:Cat seems to be out of the bag, complements of Spain.

https://elpais.com/infografias/2022/02/respuesta_otan/respuesta_otan_eeuu.pdf

...It's as we thought, it was a complete Nothing Burger, with a side of non-existent Freedom Fries, complimented with a large Bilk Shake.

Now you made me want a big ol' burger with a huge side of fries

But why did Putin wait all these years since 2014 ? I don't buy the idea that they were waiting to develop better weapons. Russia didn't need to develop better weapons to devastate Ukraine.

Honestly , I don't know. What was the last 8 years all about ? Why didn't Russia demand these guarantees in 2015 or 16 ?

This situation is an internal civil war between two groups of Ukrainians... the country had a coup and the government was overthrown in 2014 and certain regions resisted the rule of that new regime.

The Minsk agreements were supposed to facilitate dialogue between the warring factions so they could talk things through and work things out... instead Kiev kept refusing to talk to the opposing faction and demanding to talk to Russia which is totally ironic because it shows a mirror to reality... both Poroshenko and Zelensky are trying to prove to everyone especially their own people that this is a fight between Europe and Russia with Kiev representing Europe and the Donbass and Lugansk region people being a Russian invasion.

It is ironic because in actual fact Kiev does not decide anything and if Russia wants progress then they need to talk to the facilitators... the ones feeding loose change into Kiev to keep it afloat and aggressive.

All this time Putin has refused, quite rightly because he has no mandate to tell these groups what to do... they are not Russia.

Now things are boiling over... HATO wont stop expanding and therefore wont stop the anti Russia rhetoric which hinders trade and good relations for Russia and its neighbours, and Russia is getting to the point where they don't actually need the west any more and cutting them off and turning both to China but also to the rest of the world has better future prospects that banging their heads against a wall like they are doing with the west.

Turning to the rest of the world isn't forever... if the EU ever grows a pair and wants to cooperate and trade with Russia, Russia will of course be interested... but Russia wont be dictated to or lectured and certainly will no longer accept western meddling in her internal affairs as has been happening in the past.

Future attempts like Navalny might result in Russia actually starting to agitate and destabilise the west for a change.... how stable is that house of cards? I suspect not very.

The ideal result for Russia in this situation would be for Kiev to follow the Minsk accords and talk to the breakaway regions before they make the breakaway more permanent.

I suspect many would be happy if they just drop that law regarding speaking Russian... but after 8 years of bullshit and shelling they might have had enough of Kiev by now and want independence... but whose fault is that?

Sounds like the US is in panic mode lol

US warns China against helping Russia

State Department spokesperson Ned Price threatened Chinese businesses with economic punishment if they decide to work with Russia through any hypothetical sanctions imposed by US President Joe Biden.

During a press conference on Thursday, Price claimed the US has “an array of tools that we can deploy if we see foreign companies, including those in China, doing their best to backfill US export control actions, to evade them, to get around them.”

“If Russia thinks that it will be in a position... to mitigate some of those consequences, by a closer relationship with [China], that is not the case. It will actually make the Russian economy, in many ways, more brittle,” Price warned, in reference to hypothetical US sanctions against Moscow over a hypothetical Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Price continued to warn Russia it cannot survive without the West, claiming that “if you deny yourself the ability to transact with the West, to import with the West, from Europe, from the United States, you are going to significantly degrade your productive capacity and your innovative potential.”

In the same press conference, Price claimed to have US intelligence evidence that Russia was planning a false flag attack in Ukraine to justify an invasion of the country. Price was berated, however, by an AP journalist for refusing to provide a single piece of evidence to the public to justify such claims.

Moscow has repeatedly dismissed accusations that it’s planning an invasion of Ukraine as “hysteria” and "fake news," and even Kiev at one point has criticized Western officials and media for damaging its economy with constant fear mongering about an “imminent” war.

https://www.rt.com/russia/548266-us-warns-china-russia/

Foggy Bottom going after Katai with 'sanctions against Russia' is the same as taking your Colt 1911, shoving it down the front of your trousers and pulling the trigger. They are insane.

Incredibly childish outburst, even for their standards. Someone change their diapers please

LMFS wrote:Incredibly childish outburst, even for their standards. Someone change their diapers please.

Stupud is as stupud does. Unbelievable, to be honest. Sanction your backshop and main supplier? Damn.....