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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 14, 2021 9:19 am

    Rumours that the summit location will be in Reykjavik, just as it was between Reagan and Gorbachev

    Is that where Putin is expected to sell Russia again is it?

    Probably just some BS put out by our domestic commentators, doubt Russia will take the offer of a summit there if offered, knowing the connotations.
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    Post  kvs Fri May 14, 2021 2:05 pm



    Russia is only going to do a summit with the Bidet regime if Kiev abides by the Minsk agreements.

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    Post  franco Fri May 14, 2021 2:30 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Rumours that the summit location will be in Reykjavik, just as it was between Reagan and Gorbachev

    Is that where Putin is expected to sell Russia again is it?

    Probably just some BS put out by our domestic commentators, doubt Russia will take the offer of a summit there if offered, knowing the connotations.

    Perhaps Russia should suggest China Twisted Evil

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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 14, 2021 4:07 pm

    franco wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Rumours that the summit location will be in Reykjavik, just as it was between Reagan and Gorbachev

    Is that where Putin is expected to sell Russia again is it?

    Probably just some BS put out by our domestic commentators, doubt Russia will take the offer of a summit there if offered, knowing the connotations.

    Perhaps Russia should suggest China Twisted Evil

    How about Yalta? Wink

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri May 14, 2021 7:05 pm

    Interesting, Biden stated that there is no evidence that the Russian Gov was behind the hack but did say the hackers lived in Russia.

    I call this interesting because me and pretty much everyone else expected he would blame them regardless of if they where innocent or not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQFRXIdnvU&t=343s

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 15, 2021 3:17 am

    I call this interesting because me and pretty much everyone else expected he would blame them regardless of if they where innocent or not

    Well Duh... it would not surprise me if the perpetrators in Russia are actually Ukrainians wanting to drop Russia in it... because western governments are so dumb, or so dirty they don't care about the truth, they just want someone to blame and Putin and Russia are in their sights.

    I like that Russia is going to link talks with the US on Kiev living up to their commitments at Minsk... the US has something it wants and Russia can get something it wants in return... nice...
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    Post  franco Sat May 15, 2021 3:59 am

    Expanding the Scope for Statecraft in U.S. Russia Policy
    Samuel Charap
    May 14, 2021
    Commentary

    Extreme pessimism about what can be achieved with Russia now plus unjustified optimism about what will be possible in the future is not a good strategy

    https://warontherocks.com/2021/05/expanding-the-scope-for-statecraft-in-u-s-russia-policy/

    The view of US Russia relations from one of the RAND people.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat May 15, 2021 5:33 am

    franco wrote:Expanding the Scope for Statecraft in U.S. Russia Policy
    Samuel Charap
    May 14, 2021
    Commentary

    Extreme pessimism about what can be achieved with Russia now plus unjustified optimism about what will be possible in the future is not a good strategy

    https://warontherocks.com/2021/05/expanding-the-scope-for-statecraft-in-u-s-russia-policy/

    The view of US Russia relations from one of the RAND people.

    To be realistic and positive dealings with russia and the US will not come for at least a hundred years, right now the people in power on both sides are just to entrenched in the cold war mentality.

    Only when these people pass on will you have any real chance of decent relations between the two countries.

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    Post  lancelot Sat May 15, 2021 6:14 am

    I have read worse. But if they think they can have normal relations with a country they continuously try to destabilize by actively financing politicians and insurgencies both in Russia and the near abroad then they have another thing coming. Whatever Russia did in the US was a mere fraction of what the US does continuously.

    One example was the war on Chechnya. We know very well that the weapons the insurgents used came via Turkey and we know who financed and supplied them.
    The same people who are financing and supplying the war on Syria.

    The US's love of 'democracy' means they get people they select, who favor their economic elites objectives, getting control in those countries. Such 'democracies' include the House of Saud and Pinochet among others.
    Doing coups against elected governments, as they indeed did in Ukraine, Brazil, Bolivia, attempted in Venezuela, Belarus, is just part of their 'democracy'.
    The US does not want democracies they want banana republics. That is why they particularly hated the Soviet regime, it didn't give any traction to their oligarchs.

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    Post  mnztr Thu May 20, 2021 9:11 am

    Some.very hopeful developments at the arctic conference. The putin/biden meeting will likely happen. If a more cordial relationship can happen then perhaps some world issues can be solved without all the cock blocking
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    Post  LMFS Thu May 20, 2021 11:35 am

    Forget it, the West needs Russia gone and the Dems are the champions of Russophobia

    From Martyanov:

    I will not mince words here: Russia doesn't need meeting with Biden (or whoever is running this POTUS avatar), US establishment (large portion of it), on the other hand, needs this meeting badly. Both sides know it, but Russians, who learned to calculate the US actions (not that difficult, actually) several steps ahead are perfectly fine with playing such a role. Russia does not need the US for a number of reasons, few main of which are:

    1. Russia is largely secure economically from the US. De facto allied relations with China and friendly relations with with Asia more than compensate for whatever Russia may lose (or already lost) in her trade with combined West;

    2. Militarily, Russia has the edge over the United States even the Soviet Union couldn't have dreamed about;

    3. Russians know damn well that US crisis (I write about it for years) is systemic and even under the worst global circumstances short of all out thermonuclear war, Russia has all the time she needs and may even not strain herself doing much observing this train-wreck of a combined West exiting global stage as a decisive force.

    4. Last, but not least... Russians know that the US needs this summit. Russians even know why the US needs this summit and Russia is content with playing the role of a hard to get maiden, who wouldn't? Especially knowing that whatever may be negotiated and settled with the US at this possible summit will not be worth the paper it will be written on. It never is, because the US is non-agreement capable.

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2021/05/probing-limits.html

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    Post  Kiko Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm

    Kommersant: Putin-Biden summit may take place in Switzerland.

    With less than a month left before the date that Washington proposed for a summit between Presidents Joe Biden of the United States and Vladimir Putin of Russia, Moscow has not yet officially agreed to the meeting. Kommersant’s sources in Russian state agencies say that the final decision will largely depend on talks between the two countries’ top diplomats, Sergey Lavrov and Antony Blinken, scheduled for May 19-20. If Moscow green lights the summit, it may take place in Switzerland, sources say.

    Joe Biden earlier proposed a meeting with Vladimir Putin in a European country on June 15-16. The dates are convenient for Washington because the US president will be in the United Kingdom for a G7 summit on June 11-13 and will participate in a NATO summit in Brussels on June 14. Moscow is still weighing the pros and cons as, on the one hand, a summit can help ease tensions between the two countries, while on the other, there is a risk that Washington will take advantage of the meeting give Moscow a lecture in the public eye.

    The newspaper’s sources say that the situation will become clearer later in the week in Reykjavik, where Sergey Lavrov and Antony Blinken will meet for the first time on the sidelines of an Arctic Council ministerial meeting. They are expected to discuss the modalities of the summit and an outline agenda. Russia views strategic stability issues as crucial.

    According to the paper’s sources, if Putin and Biden finally get to meet each other, Switzerland may eventually host the meeting. The sources note that no decision has been made yet but that the country is the most likely location for the summit.

    https://tass.com/pressreview/1290741
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    Post  lancelot Thu May 20, 2021 7:50 pm

    Putin can meet with Biden in Switzerland and Zelensky in Liechtenstein. At least it should be larger than the Vatican.
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    Post  Kiko Thu May 20, 2021 10:02 pm

    Lavrov found a common language with American "hawks".
    May 20, 2021.

    For the first time, Sergei Lavrov held face-to-face talks with his colleague Anthony Blinken, during which the problems of strategic stability and issues of the regional level were raised. At the same time, the nature and tone of assessments of the past meeting by Moscow and Washington turned out to be completely different. What exactly is this difference and how will the talks that have been held affect the preparations for the summit of Presidents Putin and Biden?

    The day before , the first face-to-face meeting between Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken took place in the Icelandic capital . Lavrov assessed the negotiations as useful, and also spoke about the results of the meeting with the US Secretary of State and the agreements reached.

    “We confirmed our proposal to start a dialogue, considering all aspects, all factors affecting strategic stability: nuclear, non-nuclear, offensive, defensive. I have not seen a rejection of such a concept, but the experts still have to work on this, ”the Foreign Minister noted.

    “We agreed to continue our joint actions, which are developing quite successfully, in regional conflicts where the interests of the United States and Russia coincide. This is both the nuclear problem of the Korean Peninsula and the situation with the efforts to restore the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action on the Iranian nuclear program. This is Afghanistan, where the expanded "troika" of Russia, China, the United States and Pakistan is actively working. And they said how at this stage we can make all our joint actions more effective, ”Lavrov said.

    He noted that following the talks, the respective reports will be prepared for the presidents of both countries. “We will report, and the presidents, I hope, will determine further ways to correct the obviously unhealthy situation in bilateral relations,” the minister added.

    The US State Department also summed up the results of the meeting, revealing some aspects of the negotiations. At the same time, after the talks, Blinken said that the purpose of his meeting with Lavrov was to " test the proposal" on more stable and predictable US-Russian relations. At the same time, Lavrov, answering the question of whether Moscow agreed to a meeting between the presidents of Russia and the United States, Vladimir Putin and Joe Biden, noted that "we are not customs to give the go-ahead."

    Later, the official representative of the Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, noted the constructive nature of the meeting between Lavrov and Blinken. "The press present at this meeting - American, Russian, local journalists - they were somewhat discouraged by how constructively it began," Zakharova said.

    “The meeting between Sergei Lavrov and Anthony Blinken initially did not arouse much hope. In fact, miracles did not happen either. Blinken frankly wrote on his Twitter that he was only testing proposals for establishing stable and predictable relations with Russia. And here it is meant that these were not his proposals, ” American political scientist Dmitry Drobnitsky told the VZGLYAD newspaper .

    The expert drew attention to the words of Blinken about the readiness of the United States to act decisively in protecting "national interests" in response to Russia's actions. The US also touched upon the topics of Ukraine, Radio Liberty * and the health of blogger Alexei Navalny. “Judging by these reports, Blinken is ready to add a lot to the existing problems between Russia and the United States,” the interlocutor believes, noting the propaganda nature of the statements of the head of the State Department.

    “Lavrov, in turn, called this meeting constructive. Our diplomats, as always, have a glimmer of hope that the rubble in bilateral relations will be cleared up. Moreover, all these obstructions were created even before Biden came to the White House by the forces of Congress and the Washington bureaucracy, ”the expert added.

    “In addition, the American side has not announced any specific actions to ensure strategic stability. Lavrov said, as always, something clever, kind and eternal. It can be said that the parties exchanged views in a benevolent manner and parted ways. And I don’t understand what could have been gained from the meeting at this stage, other than discussing a possible summit between Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin, ”the political scientist believes.

    “The summit will be organized by US President’s National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev. In the coming days, they should meet in one of the European cities. And the point is not even that politicians have no confidence in diplomats, but that Blinken was removed from this task because of his tough position on the Russian direction. Yes, as the head of the diplomatic department, he can talk to Lavrov, but at the same time he personifies the most hawkish faction in the United States, ”Drobnitsky explained.

    As an example, the interlocutor cited the situation with sanctions against the Nord Stream 2 operator Nord Stream 2 AG. “This is a delightful move - on the eve of the meeting between Lavrov and Blinken, the State Department is imposing sanctions, and the White House is suspending them. That is, Blinken has worked out his agenda, and the White House has worked out his own agenda, ”the expert said.

    “On the whole, this meeting confirmed my concerns about the dichotomy and lack of unity in the American administration. Therefore, when we say that a dialogue took place between Russia and the United States, we actually mean that Russia spoke with one of the representatives of the clan of the split Washington administration. Soon Patrushev will talk to a representative of another clan. It is not easy for our diplomats, because we have to keep in mind that they are talking not with a single administration, but with clans that are also opposing each other. This is the problem, ”the expert complained.

    Political scientist-Americanist Boris Mezhuev has a different opinion. According to him, the tone and nature of the statements of Lavrov and Blinken differed "for one specific reason." “Foreign ministers are obliged to take into account the internal political situation in their country. Lavrov is optimistic because he is not afraid of accusations of surrendering Russia's national interests to the Americans. At the same time, Blinken is in a different situation, ”the interlocutor is sure.

    “He feared accusations because of yesterday's scandal over the refusal of sanctions against Nord Stream 2. Hence Blinken's rhetorical harshness, and his messages on social networks that the meeting was preliminary, and the words that he was only trying to find out proposals for establishing stable and predictable relations with Russia, "the expert explained.

    “But if the State Department is justified, this is a positive moment, which means the process of preparing a meeting between Putin and Biden. On the other hand, so far no one has directly confirmed that the decision on the summit has been made. Obviously, there are still issues that need to be worked out and agreed upon, ”Mezhuev suggested. He also predicted that the "hitch" could be associated with Ukraine, "since this problem cannot be circumvented, and it is hardly possible to reach a compromise."

    “But one should not expect any breakthroughs from the summit. Now Russia and the United States have two folders: large and small.

    The first includes topics on which our countries can agree: the Iranian nuclear deal, Afghanistan, Syria, climate, the Arctic and, to some extent, the problem of Nagorno-Karabakh, ”the political scientist enumerates.

    “On the contrary, a small folder contains all the problems on which the disagreements of the parties reach the highest acuteness: from Ukraine and NATO expansion to Nord Stream 2 and blogger Navalny. So yesterday Lavrov and Blinken, in fact, proposed not to mix the contents of these folders, focusing only on the “big folder,” the source said.

    “Thus, the rest of the questions will simply be“ frozen ”. I think that by doing so Lavrov and Blinken laid a good foundation for further negotiations on the organization of the summit of the two presidents, and Sullivan and Patrushev will deal with this issue in the near future, ”adds Mezhuev.

    Meanwhile, the American media assess the meeting between Lavrov and Blinken positively. “The heads of diplomatic departments stressed that both countries, which confronted each other during the Cold War, continue to have serious disagreements about how world problems should be resolved, but set a positive tone for the negotiations, indicating that both sides are still able to find ways interaction ", - quoted by the TV channel CNBC TASS .

    According to the Associated Press, Lavrov and Blinken "entered into a polite verbal duel." "A senior Biden administration official called the meeting a 'good start' without 'polemics', which allowed both sides to tentatively consider a wide range of issues that both presidents could discuss at the summit," AP said.

    “In the weeks ahead, Blinken and Lavrov greeted each other warmly, both of them showed determination in their opening remarks, with a warm tone. Lavrov, a veteran of international diplomacy, noted that both sides need to be open, "Politico summarizes.

    Text: Elena Leksina

    https://m.vz.ru/world/2021/5/20/1100130.html

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 21, 2021 8:28 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Interesting, Biden stated that there is no evidence that the Russian Gov was behind the hack but did say the hackers lived in Russia.

    I call this interesting because me and pretty much everyone else expected he would blame them regardless of if they where innocent or not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQFRXIdnvU&t=343s

    I think the Russian govt did it. And they did it as a limited demonstration of the economic damage Russia can do to the US if it persists in waging full scale economic war against Russia. Notice how the US has very suddenly also completely caved over Nord Stream 2? These few developements are HUGE. I think Putin showed to Biden they were on a path to war and they need to restore stability in their relationship
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    Post  mnztr Fri May 21, 2021 9:28 am

    Laverov is a real pro, a really skilled diplomat
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    Post  Kiko Fri May 21, 2021 6:07 pm

    Nicer US Tone to Russia?, by Finian Cunningham for Sputniknews. May 21, 2021.

    Russia is right to give a cautious welcome to the improved US attitude on display this week. But the watchword is "cautious" because there is a lot more that Washington needs to do in order to rebuild trust.

    Bilateral relations have been severely damaged over several years going back to the Obama administration as well as under former President Trump. The Americans are the ones who have largely sabotaged relations, from making false and provocative allegations to wielding sanctions, ripping up arms-control treaties, and issuing personal insults against Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

    Just because America's top diplomat Antony Blinken showed a modicum of decorum this week when he met Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov at a summit in Iceland does not mean a significant thaw in Washington's Cold War attitude. Nor does the announcement that the Biden administration is waiving sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 project between Russia and Europe.

    We have become so accustomed to arrogant American lecturing that when it stops it almost seems like a breakthrough. It was good that Blinken refrained from the usual American sanctimony and hypocritical hectoring when he met Lavrov this week in Reykjavik for the Arctic Council summit. But such restraint is a basic courtesy.

    It was the first high-level meeting between the Biden administration and the Kremlin. Lavrov gave a cautious welcome to what he discerned to be a willingness for future dialogue based on mutual respect between the world’s two nuclear superpowers. Well, time will tell if Blinken’s more businesslike attitude does indeed mark a genuine improvement on Washington’s relentless Russophobia.

    As for the US decision to waive sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 project, that is also nothing to praise. It's about time that Washington desisted from its outrageous bullying and unlawful interference in energy trade between Russia and Europe. Dropping sanctions is not commendable conduct. It is a minimal sign of more reasonable behaviour.

    There is too a bigger picture to keep in mind when viewing the apparent American overture. That is, the Biden administration's determination to confront China's rise as an economic power eclipsing the United States.

    The Biden White House has repeatedly called for allies to coordinate policy on challenging China. Unlike the boorish Trump, Biden knows that he needs to have European allies onboard if the US is to succeed in hampering China.

    This is part of a wider American attempt to build international coalitions against China which Biden has embarked on with Australia, India, Japan, South Korea, and other Asia-Pacific nations.

    To that end, the US has been fervently mending ties with the European Union by abandoning trade disputes which Trump had instigated. The reason is openly stated as realigning transatlantic relations in order to confront China.

    That's what the move this week to waive sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline seems to be really about. Biden knows he can't stop the project because Germany – Europe's economic powerhouse – is adamant about completing it. Rather than antagonizing Germany and other EU members, Washington knows the sanctions are futile and that the priority is to keep European allies aligned on its policy of confronting China.

    So why be nice to Russia? This may be a ploy by Washington to split Russia from its strategic partnership with China.

    The American foreign policy establishment has been advocating the Biden administration to "wean" Russia away from China in order to make Beijing more vulnerable to US objectives. Articles published by the Atlantic Council (see Toward a new American China Strategy) and the Council on Foreign Relations (see Biden's Foreign Policy Needs a Course Correction) have called for a reversal of the Nixon-era policy in the 1970s when Washington courted China to undermine the Soviet Union.

    Such a ploy seems implausible as a workable tactic given how the Russian and Chinese leaderships have consolidated close relations over the past decade with regard to Eurasian economic development, expanding bilateral trade, and a shared vision of a multipolar world. Presidents Putin and Xi have personal and cordial relations.

    Nevertheless, any such warming of relations by Washington towards Moscow must be viewed with scepticism until the American side demonstrates that it is indeed willing to cooperate for genuine beneficial reasons. The Americans have willfully damaged trust and it will take time for that trust to be repaired, if ever.

    The suspicion and caution remain that Washington's belated overtures to Russia are more a gambit for ulterior reasons (China) rather than a genuine effort to normaliыe relations with Moscow.

    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202105211082958080-nicer-us-tone-to-russia/
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    Post  mnztr Fri May 21, 2021 7:02 pm

    Its seems Biden and Blinken are at odds, just before the Arctic summit, Blinken puts sanctions re: NS2, and then almost immediately Biden issues waivers. Something is afoot.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 22, 2021 2:24 am

    mnztr wrote:Its seems Biden and Blinken are at odds, just before the Arctic summit, Blinken puts sanctions re: NS2, and then almost immediately Biden issues waivers. Something is afoot.

    Blinken represents the old establishment which originated from Europe and has been running the show up until now

    Biden is owned/operated by new guard comprised of non-whites and alt-lifestyle crew that has other priorities and cares little for old crusades

    Guess which one of these two are on their way out? Cool

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    Post  mnztr Sat May 22, 2021 7:27 am

    Today a host of new sanctions were announced that are pretty toothless. Russia should announce sanctions against the USS Nimitz just to mock them. But Putin is probably going along.
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 22, 2021 10:30 am

    Hopefully both...

    As the article correctly points out, the removal of sanctions on NSII is nothing at all, they should never have been put in place in the first place.

    What I thought was going to happen was that the US would piss the EU off so much that all these silk roads and trade options between Asia and the EU would lead to much increased trade between Asia and the EU benefiting both regions enough to pay less attention to what Washington actually says, but I am beginning to think that maybe America will succeed in turning the EU away from beneficial trade agreements with China and Asia and all their silk road efforts will be for nothing.

    I rather suspect if the EU shuns China that China can then direct its attention to the rest of the world and along with Russia look to create ties and trade links globally and just ignore the west completely... the latter wont be hard as they will likely sanction any ties they do have to prevent relations anyway.

    But the rest of the world has no money... well actually the rest of the world has more people than the west, people who want good quality products that don't fail after 2 years meaning you have to buy another one...
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    Post  franco Sat May 22, 2021 12:01 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Interesting, Biden stated that there is no evidence that the Russian Gov was behind the hack but did say the hackers lived in Russia.

    I call this interesting because me and pretty much everyone else expected he would blame them regardless of if they where innocent or not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQFRXIdnvU&t=343s

    I think the Russian govt did it. And they did it as a limited demonstration of the economic damage Russia can do to the US if it persists in waging full scale economic war against Russia. Notice how the US has very suddenly also completely caved over Nord Stream 2? These few developements are HUGE. I think Putin showed to Biden they were on a path to war and they need to restore stability in their relationship

    Apparently what actually happened was that there was a hack into the billing section. The Corporate executives shut the system down as they couldn't track where their product was going and therefore would not get paid for it.

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    Post  mnztr Sat May 22, 2021 8:32 pm

    franco wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Interesting, Biden stated that there is no evidence that the Russian Gov was behind the hack but did say the hackers lived in Russia.

    I call this interesting because me and pretty much everyone else expected he would blame them regardless of if they where innocent or not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQFRXIdnvU&t=343s

    I think the Russian govt did it. And they did it as a limited demonstration of the economic damage Russia can do to the US if it persists in waging full scale economic war against Russia. Notice how the US has very suddenly also completely caved over Nord Stream 2? These few developements are HUGE. I think Putin showed to Biden they were on a path to war and they need to restore stability in their relationship

    Apparently what actually happened was that there was a hack into the billing section. The Corporate executives shut the system down as they couldn't track where their product was going and therefore would not get paid for it.

    Exactly, therefore you can't really blame the hacker for taking down the pipeline system. The company shut it down. But taking down billing systems and financial systems in the US will unleash utter chaos in the economy. Its almost as bad as a neuton bomb but that be done in a very targeted manner. Just like sanctions.
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    Post  kvs Sat May 22, 2021 8:47 pm

    What a primitive billing system. And what morons. The pipeline serves long term and large customers, not some random bum off
    the street. Such corporate customers are not going to stop paying as soon as they hear the billing system is down. Also, the
    contracts are to transfer money to the bank accounts of the pipeline operator and not to the billing system. So it is not like
    the customers cold not physically pay.

    This is still a problem of over-automation. In the past we had workers that would read a meter as to how much product was piped
    and make note of it. Now we have some computerized meters sending data to the billing system. So the hackers can shut down
    the operations even without physically disrupting them. As usual, cost cutting means that there is no redundancy in the system.
    They could have had the meter readings going to back up systems, something that can be done seamlessly.

    Hole
    Hole

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    Russia - USA Relations - Page 19 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Hole Sat May 22, 2021 9:59 pm

    In March the authorities demanded the pipeline to be shut down because of leaks and a history of failures. In May a "hacker attack" happens which "forces" the pipeline to be closed for a while. Maybe some reporter should look into the matter and see if some construction work was done along the pipeline in the meantime.

    kvs likes this post


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