Russia - USA Relations

Don't take my word for it:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/13/5-million-russian-citizens-left-russia-under-putin-a75246


I met a young lady that moved to Medellin Colombia over Russia. Very smart, university educated, multiple languages etc.

The Moscow times is owned by someone from the Baltic states and is not a good source of information about Russia, except if you want an EU or HATO view of things there...

Lots of young people decide to leave their countries of origin because they hear things are better in other places... the lure of big money or the easy life.

Finland helped in the kidnapping of a Russian human rights activist by the US. At every stage of the "arrest" there were
violations of international conventions and domestic laws. She was subjected to the legal equivalent of torture including
beatings and solitary confinement (no daylight and no physical exercise) for one year. In total she was confined for
nearly 900 days.

She got some of that Julian Assange treatment from western "democracies".

Sounds like the treatment of Maria Butina is not the exception but the standard... she was another Russian woman who thought America was wonderful and Russia would be better if they were more like the US...

She might have changed her mind since then of course...

mnztr wrote:Don't take my word for it:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/13/5-million-russian-citizens-left-russia-under-putin-a75246


I met a young lady that moved to Medellin Colombia over Russia. Very smart, university educated, multiple languages etc.

I very much prefer such people to move abroad rather than start a ruckus at home over Navalny or whatever other fool the CIA sends over.

And I don't care how many languages they speak. I've talked a lot with people like this, who want to move abroad, and too often I'm dumbfounded by their naivety and lack of worldview. Think they'll be moving into a house on Easy St.
They have no idea what it entails to move to a country where you don't speak the language well if at all, have no relatives there, no citizenship, with a slim wallet and a university degree that might not even be recognized by your new country.
I say go live in LA, or London, or Paris, or wherever for a while, why not. It might introduce them to life's realities, and make them appreciate life in Russia more - or not, and they indeed made the right choice for themselves by moving, and weren't going to be of much use here in comparison.

Bon Voyage!

My own half-sister (she's quite young) moved to Israel a couple years ago. Then the war started this year and she's still shell-shocked from the rockets, wants to get out of there. But with the Covid restrictions there's nowhere to go, and she doesn't want to go back to Russia, rather another promised land or whatever.
I found the whole situation ridiculous. Such crass naivety about the country you're emigrating to.
I myself moved back to Russia after spending most of my life abroad. But I had no illusions. I knew it was cold in the winter. I knew the salaries were lower. I knew I'd have military service to do. I knew the bureaucracy here can't be taken lightly. I knew what's up, I was prepared for it, I had Russian citizenship already, relatives in the country still, even some childhood friends - and in the end I did fabulously here, on balance. But it was still a lot of work, and only steady, incremental progression. I had to learn a lot along the way.

Personally, I'm more interested in attracting bright and talented people from other countries to Russia. Believe me, it's all for the best.

flamming_python wrote:I very much prefer such people to move abroad rather than start a ruckus at home over Navalny or whatever other fool the CIA sends over.

Despite the overwhelming presence of the FSB, you give CIA more credit than they deserve.

Good paying jobs in Russia are very few. However, Russian universities are belting out thousands of grads. It's therefore quite natural that Russian college graduates migrate to the West especially the U.S in search of jobs.

You might well appoint Navalny as President but this issue of unemployment in Russia won't change, you can try.

Navalny would need to increase his popularity by about 10,000% to become Russian president, and even then, the number of people he has robbed or tricked out of money he probably could never be president of anything.

Has been very quiet about him though... see how quickly the western media gets bored of a story...

Honestly I would be more worried about whether creepy joe will last a full term and what Trump is going to do when he gets re-elected...

Every country has problems, and some people just like hot weather... there is not really much you can do about that... I mean look at the ISIS brides... going from a nice chushy life in Britain with little to actually worry about and then in the middle of a war zone expecting to be mother to your new husband... most 15 year old girls can't look after themselves let alone the 3 or four kids they are going to have in the next 3-4 years...

People make mistakes and people have regrets... right now Russia seems to have a good economy and a sensible leader who protects their interests even if he doesn't do everything perfectly.

Most countries on the planet are not in such a good position, with economic stagnation, and the difference between the haves and have nots getting bigger and bigger... to the point where the haves have more money than they could possibly need, and the have nots have to rely on charity to get by... but more importantly the government is more interested in hosting democracy events so they can whinge and complain about other countries that don't follow their orders...

RTN wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I very much prefer such people to move abroad rather than start a ruckus at home over Navalny or whatever other fool the CIA sends over.

Despite the overwhelming presence of the FSB, you give CIA more credit than they deserve.

Good paying jobs in Russia are very few. However, Russian universities are belting out thousands of grads. It's therefore quite natural that Russian college graduates migrate to the West especially the U.S in search of jobs.

You might well appoint Navalny as President but this issue of unemployment in Russia won't change, you can try.

Bullshit. Plenty of good paying jobs here. Good paying as in enough for a middle class lifestyle and a mortgage in Russia, no real worse than in Western Europe. Plenty of people getting those jobs. Even people from neighbouring countries coming and getting them.

The people emigrating are the ones looking for fabled easy st., or people just looking to live abroad for a few years, or established people buying a 2nd home in a warmer country.

flamming_python wrote:Bullshit. Plenty of good paying jobs here. Good paying as in enough for a middle class lifestyle and a mortgage in Russia, no real worse than in Western Europe.

Really? How much would a software engineer with 10 yrs of experience draw in Moscow?

The precious NATzO propaganda narrative is that Russian youth can't stand "Putler's" Russia and all want to leave.

Obviously NATzO fanbois will try to claim that this is true, even to people who actually know the truth by either living
there or having family there. It's all one big conspiracy to deny NATzO's God Given Truth (TM).

RTN wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Bullshit. Plenty of good paying jobs here. Good paying as in enough for a middle class lifestyle and a mortgage in Russia, no real worse than in Western Europe.

Really? How much would a software engineer with 10 yrs of experience draw in Moscow?

At least 200,000 rub per month after tax.

flamming_python wrote:

mnztr wrote:Don't take my word for it:

I very much prefer such people to move abroad rather than start a ruckus at home over Navalny or whatever other fool the CIA sends over.

And I don't care how many languages they speak. I've talked a lot with people like this, who want to move abroad, and too often I'm dumbfounded by their naivety and lack of worldview. Think they'll be moving into a house on Easy St.
They have no idea what it entails to move to a country where you don't speak the language well if at all, have no relatives there, no citizenship, with a slim wallet and a university degree that might not even be recognized by your new country.
I say go live in LA, or London, or Paris, or wherever for a while, why not. It might introduce them to life's realities, and make them appreciate life in Russia more - or not, and they indeed made the right choice for themselves by moving, and weren't going to be of much use here in comparison.

Bon Voyage!

My own half-sister (she's quite young) moved to Israel a couple years ago. Then the war started this year and she's still shell-shocked from the rockets, wants to get out of there. But with the Covid restrictions there's nowhere to go, and she doesn't want to go back to Russia, rather another promised land or whatever.
I found the whole situation ridiculous. Such crass naivety about the country you're emigrating to.
I myself moved back to Russia after spending most of my life abroad. But I had no illusions. I knew it was cold in the winter. I knew the salaries were lower. I knew I'd have military service to do. I knew the bureaucracy here can't be taken lightly. I knew what's up, I was prepared for it, I had Russian citizenship already, relatives in the country still, even some childhood friends - and in the end I did fabulously here, on balance. But it was still a lot of work, and only steady, incremental progression. I had to learn a lot along the way.

Personally, I'm more interested in attracting bright and talented people from other countries to Russia. Believe me, it's all for the best.

Indeed, Bon voyage and good riddance.

I like your "Easy street" term.
I live in Canada and I can say that there is no such thing as "Easy st." or "Free lunch". Most people have to work hard (really hard) to have a half-decent life.
Yes, there is plenty of opportunity in the West, but relatively few people become rich: they do it by either working very hard, or very smart and sometimes by rough-elbowing others and stepping on other people's feet.

The American continent used to be called "the land of opportunity" which was true then, but the term no longer applies.
In my opinion, the "Land of opportunity" title for the 21st Century belongs to Russia: where the land is vast, the resources plentiful, the national economy and finances are more responsibly managed, education is excellent, life is safe, public healthcare is available and retirement is secure - relatively speaking for all the above.

No wonder that millions of young people (mostly from the ex-Soviet countries) go to Russia for jobs - because jobs are available.

But then again: whiners will always whine, haters will always hate and assholes will always be assholes.

There is no pleasing anyone.... here in New Zealand we have a tradition where you have an OE, or overseas experience... when you have finished your studying you go for a year or two to the UK and drink a lot and get part time jobs and live in squalor and experience life before you move on to a real job or university.

The most common destination is London, because everyone knows someone who went there and they had a great time and you can stay with friends still there... etc etc... you basically get a part time job to pay the rent and live on pot noodles and baked beans.

I have friends who went in the early 1990s... most came back after 6 months or so, but a few stayed on... one never came home because she was murdered.

Sometimes you find the right job or the right new friends and so you put up with the stuff you don't like and other times you don't and you hate it.

mnztr wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

RTN wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Bullshit. Plenty of good paying jobs here. Good paying as in enough for a middle class lifestyle and a mortgage in Russia, no real worse than in Western Europe.

Really? How much would a software engineer with 10 yrs of experience draw in Moscow?

At least 200,000 rub per month after tax.

Ok well that is not much at all. According to Numbeo, Moscow is about 40% cheaper then Toronto but your take home is around 40% to 50% of what you can make here. In some other catagories like school teachers, the top scale in canada is over 100K Doctors..start at about 250K Police start at about 78K and can hit 200K with overtime. Deduct about 35% for tax

Starting in 2015 I was up to making 200k rub after tax and had made my war to senior after even less than 4 years experience as a software engineer, and in St. Petersburg, not Moscow

But then I'm awesome, and I don't expect most of you mortals to reach my level of performance. I'd say 200k is what you should be willing to agree to with 10 years experience and in Moscow. It's good money and from then the main criteria then should be whether you like that specific company and the stuff you'll be programming. But easily possible to make more. I don't know what the average is, but it does keep climbing.

Salaries for teachers here are dire.
For doctors, definitely not as much of a valued position in salary terms as in Europe or North America.. salary is just respectable, like maybe 80-90k rub after tax for a mid-level doctor with experience. Some specialist doctors at high-level hospitals with a lot of experience maybe up to twice that. That's for St. Petersburg, dunno about Moscow.
Police, dunno. 50k rub maybe? Plus the bribe 'tips' of course.

As for Moscow only 40% cheaper than Toronto - don't know what statistics abracadabra came out with that but it's gonk
Moscow is an expensive city, but only by Russian standards.
Rent is what, starting from 30k rub for a studio, maybe 45k-50k for a 2-bedroom apartment further from the centre. It's peanuts compared to London, where I once lived.
In London I could make up to x2.5 as much as a software engineer. Yet what good is that if real estate prices are x9 as much as St. Petersburg, where I live now?

Gas/electricity/water bills, transport, taxis - all far cheaper in Russia. No comparison. Can't speak for gasoline prices, don't have a car, but I think they're considerably cheaper as well - and far less annual payments compared to the UK.

Basically Russia is good if you have a skill that can pay well, and the Russian language skills if they're needed. But for most professions the salary is just way lower than in Canada or what not.
In IT, the salary difference between Russia and Canada/Europe/whatever is not that huge, and the much lower costs make it immensely worth it. But then again with programming skills you can live and work remotely in Cambodia if you want.

Ameritards have come up with a new way to blame Russia. New England is experiencing a deficit of natural gas because the LNG
traffic went to east Asia (Japan, China, South Korea, etc.) and US law prevents non US shipping of LNG. Naturally the foaming
at the mouth yanqui haters are blaming Gazprom.

1) US LNG is not going to U-rope so this claim is totally retarded.

2) Gazprom is not obliged to sell anything on the spot market. It is not obliged to export its natural gas at all.

I really do hope that the Yankess and its chihuahua lapdogs exhaust all their sanction options so Russia can orient its economy to be completely independent from crooked NATzO economies.

US lawmakers urge pre-emptive sanctions, Ukraine arms to deter Putin


A group of US lawmakers on Tuesday called for pre-emptive sanctions on Russia and expanded arms shipments to Ukraine, fearing that action so far may not dissuade President Vladimir Putin from invading.

After a weekend visit to Ukraine, the three lawmakers — all military veterans — said they were convinced Putin was serious about an attack, as tens of thousands of troops amassed near the Ukrainian border.

“We need to be more concerned about deterring Putin than provoking him,” Representative Seth Moulton, a Democrat, told reporters.

“If Putin invades, I want him to know that he’ll have trouble buying a soda from a vending machine in the next five minutes, not that NATO will convene a conference to debate what to do next over the ensuing several weeks.”

President Joe Biden in a telephone call with Putin last week warned that Russia will face sanctions “like none he’s ever seen” if Moscow invades Ukraine, which has already been battling pro-Russian separatists.

Representative Mike Waltz, a Republican, said the United States should already be imposing sanctions over destabilization.

“I think promising tough action… after an invasion will do very little in terms of Putin’s calculus,” Waltz said.

He urged the Biden administration to cut through red tape and immediately deliver weapons to Ukraine, including air defense missiles.

Representative Ruben Gallego, a Democrat, said Ukraine can deter Putin by convincing him “that an invasion would be bloody and it will be long and protracted.”

“It will be an existential threat to his leadership if he has a massive loss of that kind,” Gallego added.

Like Biden, the lawmakers ruled out deployment of US troops.

Putin has ramped up pressure on Ukraine since a 2014 uprising ousted a president who had resisted calls to orient the nation closer to the West.

Putin said Tuesday he wanted immediate talks with the United States and NATO on Russia’s security, including guarantees that the Western alliance will not expand east to Ukraine.


https://www.defencetalk.com/us-lawmakers-urge-pre-emptive-sanctions-ukraine-arms-to-deter-putin-77589/

"Uprising". Sure.

Like Biden, the lawmakers ruled out deployment of US troops.

So more charity to the US military MIC... almost as if these ex military senators might be getting kickbacks from arms and weapons makers in the US to pump out some shit the US military no longer is ordering because it is not in Afghanistan any more...

I love this sort of crap... it just reminds Putin and Russia that they are doing the right thing and that it is only a matter of time before the american people wake up and rise up... how much BS are they going to endure though... so many are headed towards the poverty line that it must be above shoulder height and when it gets above their noses even when standing on tippie toes the are going to either have to act or drown.

Either way, not Russias problem.

PhSt wrote:I really do hope that the Yankess and its chihuahua lapdogs exhaust all their sanction options so Russia can orient its economy to be completely independent from crooked NATzO economies.

US lawmakers urge pre-emptive sanctions, Ukraine arms to deter Putin


A group of US lawmakers on Tuesday called for pre-emptive sanctions on Russia and expanded arms shipments to Ukraine, fearing that action so far may not dissuade President Vladimir Putin from invading.

After a weekend visit to Ukraine, the three lawmakers — all military veterans — said they were convinced Putin was serious about an attack, as tens of thousands of troops amassed near the Ukrainian border.

“We need to be more concerned about deterring Putin than provoking him,” Representative Seth Moulton, a Democrat, told reporters.

“If Putin invades, I want him to know that he’ll have trouble buying a soda from a vending machine in the next five minutes, not that NATO will convene a conference to debate what to do next over the ensuing several weeks.”

President Joe Biden in a telephone call with Putin last week warned that Russia will face sanctions “like none he’s ever seen” if Moscow invades Ukraine, which has already been battling pro-Russian separatists.

Representative Mike Waltz, a Republican, said the United States should already be imposing sanctions over destabilization.

“I think promising tough action… after an invasion will do very little in terms of Putin’s calculus,” Waltz said.

He urged the Biden administration to cut through red tape and immediately deliver weapons to Ukraine, including air defense missiles.

Representative Ruben Gallego, a Democrat, said Ukraine can deter Putin by convincing him “that an invasion would be bloody and it will be long and protracted.”

“It will be an existential threat to his leadership if he has a massive loss of that kind,” Gallego added.

Like Biden, the lawmakers ruled out deployment of US troops.

Putin has ramped up pressure on Ukraine since a 2014 uprising ousted a president who had resisted calls to orient the nation closer to the West.

Putin said Tuesday he wanted immediate talks with the United States and NATO on Russia’s security, including guarantees that the Western alliance will not expand east to Ukraine.


https://www.defencetalk.com/us-lawmakers-urge-pre-emptive-sanctions-ukraine-arms-to-deter-putin-77589/

Russia has already exhausted its abilities to deal with the west in honest trade. It has already moved east and south.  It has already agreed to work with China and Iran using Mir payment system and these countries internal payment system. Hell, even Turkey now accepts Mir payment system.

The comment about putin wouldn't be able to buy a soda from a vending machine is a hilarious joke since Russia doesn't use USD as a currency but Russian Ruble, so it throws out their entire claims out the window.

You and I both know the Russians don't give a shit about sanctions anymore.

Actually, biggest joke about this is that if they ban Russia from swift (only last thing the US can do), it will **** up EU and US economies even more since they rely on Russian energy and metals for majority of their own economies.  So if they can't buy those, prices will skyrocket and Russia will make even more money in that phase.

I believe the guys at the Duran pointed this out as well.

PS. There needs to be a better alternative to Android and iOS especially for autocorrect bullshit.

I am sure all the previous sanctions have not worked because Putin has been able to get soda from a soda machine, and that was their mistake... because he is so much like them it isn't funny and all the things they are afraid of, he is afraid of because obviously he is an American just like them... NOT.

Banning Russia from SWIFT will mean western countries wanting Russian energy or materials or resources will have to buy through third parties which is going to massively increase the price and slow down the process... and also create hidden problems... what if a third party buys 1,000 tons of titanium for Boeing to build 1,000 F-35s... but China decides it wants to make some new planes too and outbids Boeing for that metal and so that 1,000 tons of Titanium goes to China... the third party makes even more money than they were expecting because China bid more... only Boeing loses...

Russia does not care, it will be selling gas and oil and Titanium regardless of the stupid games the west plays.

Banning Russia from SWIFT will accelerate adoption of the Russian alternative and make it much more widespread than it would otherwise be, and Russia will benefit from countries using it to bypass western interference... a Chinese equivalent and perhaps even an Indian equivalent could be used as well... if you trade internationally it would then make sense to join all these systems to allow flexibility in payments and also in case one does not take off you have other ways to pay.

There will probably be no agreement with the US / NATO. That was easy to predict
https://www.rt.com/russia/543522-white-house-russian-proposal/?fbclid=IwAR1KX7QhKYqdIllShoXwVe6Sax5MROlGD23l_UcytLevxPQb4n9j21xWb88

Russia calls on US to stop NATO eastward expansion in draft security treaty

https://tass.com/politics/1377261

The yanquis are trying to use their EU-tard proxies to pressure Russia to submit.   This shows everyone how totally lost
they are and unable to deal with reality.   Blocking Nord Stream 2 as boasted about by Stinkin Blinkin is a moronic joke.
How is it going to break Gazprom and Russia?   Seriously, how?   Because Russia will not get some precious US dollars
to buy wheat?   Maybe unemployment will go up in Russia because EU-tardia is not going to get the gas it wants?

Same goes for the retards in Kiev, aka Khuyiv.  They are going to "flash and storm" in the Donbass from their bogged down
trenches?   They have 125,000 "troops" deployed on the LOS and have shown no evidence of being able to make any
advances.   All they have is their usual shelling of civilians.   The "generals" of the Ukr "army" are openly talking about
needing NATzO to do the fighting for them.   So NATzO is caught in a catch 22.   It needs its Kiev proxies to invade the
Donbass but they can't do this.   So NATzO has no pretext to assist them by forcing Russia to respond.  

In spite of not having Biden's dementia, his handlers are managing to run a senile administration.   What an achievement.

HATO is an anti Russia club and it does not matter whether the Ukraine and Georgia are official members of the gang or just hangers on bitches.

They are defacto part of the gang... they just can't wear the patches...

Russia should simply say that if HATO expands then Russia support for the Donbass and any other part of the Ukraine that does not like Kiev will become open and obvious and overt like the HATO support for Kiev is.

The so called rebels can have decent body armour and modern equipment and everything they need to defend themselves from what is supposed to be their own government.