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    Military budget of the Russian Federation

    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:05 pm

    Denying the Russian airforce modern aircrafts to save a penny for cheaper jets. Instead, dont purchase Su-35's and just order more PAK FA's or come up with an alternative to PAK FA that is cheaper. But skimping out now to save a penny isnt smart, not in todays climate. Either that, or introduce even newer tech to current jets to help improve them, like the AESA radar for Su-30/35 aircrafts.

    But apparently they still want more PAK FA's but now extended to a later time. I think it is better to make a cheaper aircraft now, and whoever will do it will do well. If they cut back, others may not be interested in it and prices for it will stay high. If they purchase more of it, prices should drop.

    It is good they are extending the deadline rather than canceling anything. But I still think that a cheaper alternative to PAK FA needs to be looked at in order to get numbers in service as well as having something more capable.
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:24 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Denying the Russian airforce modern aircrafts to save a penny for cheaper jets. Instead, dont purchase Su-35's and just order more PAK FA's or come up with an alternative to PAK FA that is cheaper. But skimping out now to save a penny isnt smart, not in todays climate. Either that, or introduce even newer tech to current jets to help improve them, like the AESA radar for Su-30/35 aircrafts.

    But apparently they still want more PAK FA's but now extended to a later time. I think it is better to make a cheaper aircraft now, and whoever will do it will do well. If they cut back, others may not be interested in it and prices for it will stay high. If they purchase more of it, prices should drop.

    It is good they are extending the deadline rather than canceling anything. But I still think that a cheaper alternative to PAK FA needs to be looked at in order to get numbers in service as well as having something more capable.

    DId you read the article?

    They're talking about cancelling the plans for modernizing Soviet-era destroyer classes, and also cancelling plans for acquiring An-70s. The money they'll save they'll put towards things like developing hypersonic weapons.

    Shame about the An-70 really; it's the big tragedy of this whole Ukraine crisis. Can't be helped I guess.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:51 pm

    Meant to say procurement of important things (I dont count AN-70 as one since IL can create something similar and AN is Ukrainian). No cancelation in procurement. Modernozing old destroyers may not be beneficial especially if they are developing new destroyer. If the money goes towardsthe new destroyers and hypersonic weaponry, that is fine. At the moment, Russia needs more and newer Frigates. Destroyers can come later.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:23 am

    When your money situation is not good it makes sense to cut back on things that you don't really need.

    This wont effect the direction the Russian military is moving in... it will just slightly reduce the pace for a short while.

    When the light at the end of the tunnel is brighter (closer) they can increase the spending to compensate... by then what they buy will be newer and more capable and will probably be more expensive and need that extra money.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:19 pm

    I did a back of envelop calculation and found that for a SAP budget of 20 Trillion Rouble and 3 Trillion MIC till 2020

    Even a 20 % cut in 23 trillion would mean they would still spend 18.4 Trillion on both.

    Not bad if they have to cut to 20 % budget.

    I think they can reduce the number of armour they buy push beyond 2020 some projects
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    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:20 am

    Defense budget cuts to have no effect on Russia’s defense capability — lawmaker

    Russia's national defense spending is expected to be slashed to about $57 billion

    MOSCOW, April 7. /TASS/. Russia’s defense budget cuts will not affect the country’s defense capability, member of the Defense Committee at the State Duma (the lower house of Russia’s parliament), Col.-Gen Viktor Zavarzin said on Tuesday.

    The lawmaker commented on amendments to the budget discussed by the lower house of Russia’s parliament on Tuesday.

    The amendments are expected to slash budget appropriations under the "National Defense" spending item by 157,217,500,000 rubles ($2.9 billion) to 3.12 trillion rubles (about $57 billion) compared with the budget outlays approved earlier, the lawmaker said.

    The largest cuts are expected under the sub-items "Armed Forces of the Russian Federation" (by 99,741,400,000 rubles or by $1.8 billion) and "Mobilization and Reserve Officers Training" (by 654,400,000 rubles or by $11.9 million), he said.

    "Today’s defense budget cuts will not in any way affect the state’s defense capability and the state’s obligations will be fulfilled," Zavarzin said, adding that "military pensions will be increased actually by 7.5% from October 1, 2015."

    The Russian government will also not cut expenditures on the state armaments program, although the fulfillment of some of its parts will be shifted to a later period, the lawmaker said.
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:37 am

    I am very glad no cuts at all to procurement. But the cuts mentioned..,, does that include army training.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:52 pm

    Russia’s Defense Ministry plans no army downsizing despite budget cuts

    The ministry will not cut expenditures on socially important budget items

    MOSCOW, April 9. /TASS/. Russia’s Defense Ministry does not plan to reduce the numerical strength of the Russian Armed Forces or expenditures on servicemen’s pay, despite budget cuts, Deputy Defense Minister Tatiana Shevtsova said on Thursday.

    "The Defense Ministry of Russia does not plan to make a decision on reducing the personnel of the Armed Forces or the size of pays," Shevtsova said at a meeting with the heads of financial bodies in Rostov-on-Don.

    Russia’s Defense Ministry will not cut expenditures on socially important budget items, she said.

    "These are the expenditures on personnel that include servicemen’s money allowance, pays to civilian personnel and compensation payments and pensions," the Defense Ministry official added.

    Russia’s Defense Ministry will be able to avoid cuts in spending on personnel through optimizing expenditures on the army maintenance and equipment, she said. In particular, this will be done through the implementation of the Effective Army program, she added.

    The deputy defense minister said in late March that the Defense Ministry would not reduce allowance and pays, cancel or cut some types of payments. She said that servicemen’s money allowance had not been indexed since 2012 but had grown constantly through incentive pays. Last year, the servicemen’s monthly pay averaged 62,000 rubles ($1,190 at the current exchange rate).
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    Post  Kimppis on Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:36 pm

    George1 wrote:Defense budget cuts to have no effect on Russia’s defense capability — lawmaker

    Russia's national defense spending is expected to be slashed to about $57 billion

    When I read that part I was like "what the fuck is this shit!? 57 billion!?" But then I almost immediately remembered ruble's exchange rate. Cool  So yeah, doesn't seem to bad at all.
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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:57 am

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/789540

    $40b this year for state arms program, no cuts in there but there will be cuts overall in military, or stiffening spending at least. So I imagine certain things being repaired wont or reduced spending there and who knows but they said to be keeping same or more personnel and no cuts in procurement but some other cuts.... dunno, quite vague, especially since they opened new arctic bases.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:15 am

    Kimppis wrote:
    George1 wrote:Defense budget cuts to have no effect on Russia’s defense capability — lawmaker

    Russia's national defense spending is expected to be slashed to about $57 billion

    When I read that part I was like "what the fuck is this shit!? 57 billion!?" But then I almost immediately remembered ruble's exchange rate. Cool  So yeah, doesn't seem to bad at all.

    That quote is epic retardation. A forex change is never termed this way when pretty much any country aside from Russia is
    discussed. It's like saying the Russia GDP was slashed by 40%. It looks like there will not be much of a deficit in 2015. There
    was lots of anticipation that Russia's economy would slide but it hasn't. In my view this is yet more evidence that Russia's
    GDP is underestimated. I can see the Russian government deliberately doing this to make itself seem like less competition for
    NATO. But I guess NATO has smelled the coffee and is banging the war drums.

    The CBR overstates the inflation in Russia so its GDP deflator is too high. The very small GDP growth we have seen over the last
    few years is dubious. It is inconsistent with the growth in real incomes. If the GDP was anemic, then so would be the worker
    wages. They are set by free market rules and not central planners. from 2000 until now, real wages have grown by over 10%
    per year. This looks like a good first estimate for the GDP growth rate, especially under current conditions since any large
    transition adjustments would have happened early during this period. The low unemployment rate in Russia is another good
    indicator of the health of the economy.

    So expect that for some "bizarre" reason, the military budget over the next few years will be fulfilled. Officials in Russia are
    likely tasked with making things look worse than they are.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:17 am

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/russia/789540

    $40b this year for state arms program, no cuts in there but there will be cuts overall in military, or stiffening spending at least. So I imagine certain things being repaired wont or reduced spending there and who knows but they said to be keeping same or more personnel and no cuts in procurement but some other cuts.... dunno, quite vague, especially since they opened new arctic bases.

    I think a clamp down on Serdyukov era corruption has borne fruit. The budget is always a challenge to implement when corruption turns
    the organization into a sieve. We have seen with the Sochi Olympics that Russia can indeed get its sh*t together.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:51 am

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/russia/789540

    $40b this year for state arms program, no cuts in there but there will be cuts overall in military, or stiffening spending at least. So I imagine certain things being repaired wont or reduced spending there and who knows but they said to be keeping same or more personnel and no cuts in procurement but some other cuts.... dunno, quite vague, especially since they opened new arctic bases.

    I don't believe them when they say there will be no cuts to purchases.

    Already we see certain figures magically "trimmed" compared to claims from 2014- for example Irkut's deliveries of Su-30s and Yak-130s this year.

    The budget has a huge gap to make up, and it would be insane not to dip into the military to make up the difference. Especially since they have seen larger increases in budget spending than most other sectors of the economy.
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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:29 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/russia/789540

    $40b this year for state arms program, no cuts in there but there will be cuts overall in military, or stiffening spending at least. So I imagine certain things being repaired wont or reduced spending there and who knows but they said to be keeping same or more personnel and no cuts in procurement but some other cuts.... dunno, quite vague, especially since they opened new arctic bases.

    I don't believe them when they say there will be no cuts to purchases.

    Already we see certain figures magically "trimmed" compared to claims from 2014- for example Irkut's deliveries of Su-30s and Yak-130s this year.

    The budget has a huge gap to make up, and it would be insane not to dip into the military to make up the difference. Especially since they have seen larger increases in budget spending than most other sectors of the economy.

    They said no cuts to procurement but possibly extending deadlines. So instead of getting 100 Su-35 (just example) by 2020 they will recieve 80 with 20 more at a later time. I rember reading that they may extend sap2020 to 2025 but with same procurement budget meaning it is stretched out by another 5 years to spend per year on procurement. $40B this year is lot for procurement already.

    And this is why SAP programs are great. They are able to adjust it but still meet the number of equipment.

    As well, Putin, and the entire defense community said no cuts to procurement. So a way to save money per year is moving certain number of procurements to a later date and they can shave off how much is spent in one year. As for numbers of su-30 and yak-130 for this year, that can be a sign that they may get the remaining 2 su-30's next year and then repeate for next year for the year after that.

    PAK FA was mentioned best. 12 from initial 50 by 2016/17 but plan is still for 250 of them.

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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:44 pm

    If SAP2020 is extended to SAP2025 then lets do the math:
    Sap2020 is what, roughly $500B in procurement for 9 years (2011-2020) so that is around $55B per year. If they extend it another 5 years then (2011-2025): that is $35.7B that is already shaving off close to $20B per year. This year they spend $40B on procurement so this may be indication they are going this route.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:53 pm

    Importantly for Russia by extending the production programmes the Russian manufacturers can set aside more production capacity for export orders that generate income in foreign currency which is rather more valuable now when converted to roubles so they can offer reduced prices and still keep a decent profit margin and have the spare production capacity to meet production commitments.
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    Post  Austin on Fri May 29, 2015 11:10 am

    What is budget for Defence for 2016 ?

    Are they reducing it by 10 %
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    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:53 am

    Russian Military Spending: Drawing Blood From A Stone

    Military budget of the Russian Federation - Page 7 RussiaMilSpending

    Military budget of the Russian Federation - Page 7 Russianrealmilspending

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    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:20 am

    Austin wrote:What is budget for Defence for 2016 ?

    Are they reducing it by 10 %

    By end of 2014 , after the crisis of RUble.. i saw one report where the Defense ministry told
    the Defense budget will NOT be affected by the Cuts in Russian budget.. and they actually
    told the defense budget will increase in 2015 and even more in 2016.. something
    between 10% to 15% more.

    The last word about Pak-fa for example is that they will buy [i] As many as Sukhoi can produce [/u]. So it seems Russia is now aiming at Hundreds of them for 2020 and thousands beyond 2020.. and is preparing /arming for a potential war.

    i hope they do the same with Pak-da and Armata..

    Unfortunately not all is nice.. the Space Industry budget was slashed by 10%. Sad
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    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:48 pm

    MOSCOW, June 8 - RIA Novosti. Nearly 4 billion rubles to the federal budget received from the sale of property released Armed Forces of the auction, most of which was scrap metal from decommissioned equipment, said Monday the director of the Department of Property Relations of the Ministry of Defense Dmitry Kurakin.

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150608/1068759316.html&usg=ALkJrhjKCKN6zSYFj0zcATJQ3z4Y6XsXIg
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    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:14 pm

    Siluanov: Russian military budget expenditures declined, but less than other articles

    Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said that the decision on military expenditure was made when considering the budget for 2015. The Ministry of Finance proposed to balance military spending subject to the decisions of 2015, extending them to the years 2016-2018.

    MOSCOW, June 25 - RIA Novosti / Prime. Military expenditure budget of Russia will be reduced, just like everyone else, but the percentage of the optimization will be lower, said Finance Minister Anton Siluanov told reporters.

    "The decision on military expenditure was made last year, when we looked at the budget for 2015. Military spending, we also offer a balanced view of the decisions of 2015, extending them to the years 2016-2018. It is about the fact that we have decided on the ... reduce inefficient spending. By optimizing the percentage of defense spending was lower, but the amount that has been optimized in this year, we also offer to extend for the next years ", - he told reporters Siluanov.

    "It will be a little less," - said Siluanov, responding to a clarification question of journalists about what we are talking about optimizing less than 10%.
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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:40 pm

    So it assentially proved my point that they will extend it (Unless i am reading it wrong) Less than 10% though, so they wont be saving much. Unless they are just cutting the useless program. (if there are any).

    Curious though, they said they will not cut procurement but the other areas (mentioned before) but they are building new bases in arctic. So what can they cut? What exactly are they cutting?

    I cant seem to find anything on tass other than simple 2016 defense budget will be slashed by less than 10%. That was it. Does anyone here know exactly what the cuts entail?
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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:32 pm

    So apparently, this year, orriginally budget was set at $20B higher than last year (roughly $81B). So if there is a cut by less than 10%, so lets say 8%, then that means budget is roughly $74.5B this year, which makes it about $13B higher than last year. Next year, budget for defense was set at roughly around $90B so we can expect next years defense budget set at around $80~ B.

    Although, I cant find anything much on this and what is being cut, cause on Tass, Putin went on to say further modernization of weapons and as well, only states for 2016 budget to be reduced by less than 10%.

    If anyone can provide assistance on this, would be nice. I noticed you posted this on keypub forum Austin, so I will be checking that out to see replies. As well, why are you not posting the flight magazine here as well? Many would love to read it!
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    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:52 am

    Finance Ministry proposes to cut military spending in Russia’s 2016 budget

    That means a reduction of ineffective spending on state programs, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said

    MOSCOW, June 25. /TASS/. The military spending in Russia’s budget for 2016 will be cut but by less than 10%, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov told reporters on Thursday.

    "It will be less (than by 10% which is foreseen for other sectors)", he said.

    The Minister added that his ministry proposes to reduce the military spending taking into account the decisions of 2015 and making them valid also in 2016-2018.

    "That means a reduction of ineffective spending on state programs. As for military spending the percentage of optimization of this program was lower this year but the sum that we managed to cut we also want to extract from the spending in the coming years," Siluanov said.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:41 pm

    Thanks to Austin for posting this at Keypub forums:
    http://vpk.name/news/135793_minfin_prizval_peresmotret_rashodyi_na_oboronu.html

    Effectively, finance minister wants to bring back MiC (which is second largest or first largest employers in Russia, brings in 10's of billions in revenue and billions in taxation, as well as work for all those people who buy goods) back to 90's era level by wanting to get gov to reduce the budget to 2% from 4%. Let me remind you that next year, it wont even be 4% and will be less than $80B due to cutting the budget next year, so he is flat out a lying f*** on the numbers of what they are spending, but as well, effectively stops the procurement plan altogether. The recent climb in defence spending is due to sap2020 and replacing all the needed equipment that is falling out of the sky, killing people/pilots, all so some idiot can save a kopek on paper but damage the Rus economy even more in long run. He wants to drop it to $40B per year, which means it wont even come close to funding sap 2020 and one would have to forget about it, all for austerity. He uses example of what BRICS nations spend on average, but doesnt take into consideration that nukes alone would cost 1/4 of those funds, if it was $40B, and they dont need to cover the same amount of space as Russia does. Not to mention, average wage of Russians are higher than even Chinese so costs will be higher too.

    If they do this, they will do exactly as they did before, no issues will be fixed, and Russias security and economy will drop to the gutter and will lose their airforce eventually cause of costs and lack of money to replace the birds falling from the skies, or funds for training.

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