1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

GarryB wrote:The interesting thing is that when I talk to westerners or all the ethnic groups actually involved in the conflict except the Serbs... they say the bad guys were the Serbs.

Most of the Serbs I talk to about it say there were no good guys and everybody did very bad things, but that the Serbs tended to get the blame for everything... largely likely because of their link to Russia no doubt.

Croats, Bosnians and later Albanians had great support from Germany most notably, even weapons, Croatians were supplied for an example with significant amounts of Ambrusts. Now when Germany says something, others EU members follow. And how i see it, Germans always had thing for Croatians and their blind obidinence to German influence. For God sake they sent 10.000 men "Black Legion" to fight in Russia during WW2. They were running one of the biggest WW2 death camps, Jasenovac. So i guess that way way to repay Croats and Muslims (Yes Muslims too were members of NHD Ustaše, they were actually last to lay weapons in place called Fazlagića Kula).

See, Croats fought on German side in WW2, WW2 both times post war "hugged" by Serbs which prevented them from being listed on losing side, they never answered for their crimes aganist civilians in Serbian Mačva in WW1 (and there were plenty), then again after WW2 Serbians formed state with them included, some Ustaše were punished by new Communist regime but it was all beans compared to real scale of that organisation. And what happens? Croats only remember Blajburg, place were captured Ustaše were executed for their crimes, they never mention anything before. They actually blame Serbs directly for "killing Croats in Blajburg", which was basically Yugoslavian Nirmberg trial.

Serbs are not saints, but things that Serbs did are so sporadic, unorganised and mostly done in revenge.

Let me tell you one story, its longish but i think it will say thing or two:

Youngest person from my family to die in June 1941. by Croats was 15 years old. Croats that gathered all male Serbs from my village were our actual Croatian neighbours reinforced by Croats from city of Dubrovnik. They said various lies to make them come peacefully, my grand-grand father which was 55 at that time, was village knez (term derived from Russian, means like leader/chieftain of a sort) and they told him he needs to come to a meeting, new Independent State of Croatia needs to read him changes in laws etc, to rest of my family they said they need to give away old documents and recieve new so that they need to come too. When they left village they were tied up in long line with ropes and taken on foot to 7-8km away natural deep natural pit. Some were killed by knife and thrown, some hit in head with big wooden hammer, some thrown alive, occasionally handgrenade was thrown after them to stop screams of wounded that did not die.

Now let me come back to 15 years old guy. He was sick, and was laying near fireplace with temperature. They asked my Grand-grand mother whats up with a kid (it was brother of our Croat neighbour, his family way very poor and they would often use our land to feed their cow, and grandmother would send them every sunday big wheat flour bread, as they mainly ate corn bread, this guy however was working in Dubrovnik on docks and came here only for this "job") and she said (like many mothers would to boost sick kids morale): "He is not a kid, he is a bachelor now, he might need to marry soon". Then our neighbour, friend, copatriot said: "Then if he is a man, he should come with us too". Naturally she never saw him again, his remains were identified in 1991. taken from that same pit, decades after his mother died. Grand-Grand mother blamed herself for his death, and she never pointed out who that guy was, out of fear i guess.

Now, lets say some 15 years post WW2, was is long over, one of my far cousins talked with Croatian train conductor about my village and he apparently "had a few drinks" and said at one moment: "I am sorry of nothing in my life, but for that young <insert my surname> boy i took from <insert village>". Lets say this information came to ears of my grandfather cousins. They stopped the train one day, took conductor off it, took him to mountains on foot, tied far, far and took his brains out with a rifle bullet. None of them is alive today, police lets say "turned head away" too so i am fairly free to share this. My point, Serbs are not genuinely some butchers and maniacs like West likes to portrait us... but sure as Hell you should not make them your enemy. Coz if you do, you will have to cry out loud to Germans, Brits and Americans to save your ass.

Hey Militarov what are the feelings of ordinary Serbs in regards to Radovan Karadzic ? ... as I said before the whole reporting on the former Yugoslavia in the West was very one sided back then social media was not what it is today 17 years on from the bombing of Serbia and Montenegro

Godric wrote:Hey Militarov what are the feelings of ordinary Serbs in regards to Radovan Karadzic ? ... as I said before the whole reporting on the former Yugoslavia in the West was very one sided back then social media was not what it is today 17 years on from the bombing of Serbia and Montenegro

Uh, nice and hard question at the same time. But ill try to form some kind of picture for you.

As i am originally from Bosnia and Herzegovina, my family actually, as i was just a kid during 1991. war i came to see two sides of medal regarding Serbs as nation. Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina (at least its part Republic of Serbs( people praise Radovan as some his actions saved thousands of lives, not only his but also few other "war criminals" as they portray them on the West. Did bad things happen in that war? For sure they did, however there is deeper reason for that happening. In 1941. villages in Bosnia and Herzegovina and todays Croatia that had Serbian population were massacred, belive it or not Germans and Italians on more than few occasions were the one trying to defend Serbs from Croats and Muslims. Very few or none were punished for thousands and thousands dead in those massacres.. so imagine hatred that was growing in many common people that lost father, older brother... mom?

So when war broke up more than few took justice in their own hands if they got a chance. It was almost never organised by military or police, and those happenings were quite sporadic. Take note also that many "mass graveyards" were actually just mass graves for dead combatants, or ppl that died from desease, noone was going to dig separate graves if you have 30 dead people, however post war they all became "Victims of Serbian butchers".

However as you cross into Serbia, you will hear more and more of "Filthy Serbs from Republic of Serbs killing those innocent Croats and Bosniaks". Simply coz they never saw war with their own eyes, never lost anyone from family in those wars etc etc, reasons are countless. So lets say like this 85% of Serbs in Republic of Serbs support Radovan and consider him their warleader that saved them, in Serbia itself its more like 60ish...% maybe even less, since they barely ever were in any threat during Yugoslav civil war so they dont even care whatsoever. Also Serbs in Serbia would sell their mothers for sack of potatoes if chance would appear. Not all naturally but sadly big percentage is like that.

In my personal opinion, if you care for it anyways, is that Radovan Karadžić was right man in a wrong time, so to say. Him and Ratko Mladić probably saved more Muslim lives than anyone during that war, however you wont hear that from anyone ever, especially not in the west. My father that served in that war was giving his field rations to Croats in village they were stationed at, later after the war they claimed in Dubrovnik how they were tortured, kept in 1 room and similar stuff.

Militarov wrote:

Godric wrote:Hey Militarov what are the feelings of ordinary Serbs in regards to Radovan Karadzic ? ... as I said before the whole reporting on the former Yugoslavia in the West was very one sided back then social media was not what it is today 17 years on from the bombing of Serbia and Montenegro

Uh, nice and hard question at the same time. But ill try to form some kind of picture for you.

As i am originally from Bosnia and Herzegovina, my family actually, as i was just a kid during 1991. war i came to see two sides of medal regarding Serbs as nation. Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina (at least its part Republic of Serbs( people praise Radovan as some his actions saved thousands of lives, not only his but also few other "war criminals" as they portray them on the West. Did bad things happen in that war? For sure they did, however there is deeper reason for that happening. In 1941. villages in Bosnia and Herzegovina and todays Croatia that had Serbian population were massacred, belive it or not Germans and Italians on more than few occasions were the one trying to defend Serbs from Croats and Muslims. Very few or none were punished for thousands and thousands dead in those massacres.. so imagine hatred that was growing in many common people that lost father, older brother... mom?

So when war broke up more than few took justice in their own hands if they got a chance. It was almost never organised by military or police, and those happenings were quite sporadic. Take note also that many "mass graveyards" were actually just mass graves for dead combatants, or ppl that died from desease, noone was going to dig separate graves if you have 30 dead people, however post war they all became "Victims of Serbian butchers".

However as you cross into Serbia, you will hear more and more of "Filthy Serbs from Republic of Serbs killing those innocent Croats and Bosniaks". Simply coz they never saw war with their own eyes, never lost anyone from family in those wars etc etc, reasons are countless. So lets say like this 85% of Serbs in Republic of Serbs support Radovan and consider him their warleader that saved them, in Serbia itself its more like 60ish...% maybe even less, since they barely ever were in any threat during Yugoslav civil war so they dont even care whatsoever. Also Serbs in Serbia would sell their mothers for sack of potatoes if chance would appear. Not all naturally but sadly big percentage is like that.

In my personal opinion, if you care for it anyways, is that Radovan Karadžić was right man in a wrong time, so to say. Him and Ratko Mladić probably saved more Muslim lives than anyone during that war, however you wont hear that from anyone ever, especially not in the west. My father that served in that war was giving his field rations to Croats in village they were stationed at, later after the war they claimed in Dubrovnik how they were tortured, kept in 1 room and similar stuff.

a lot of atrocities against Serbs were hushed up in the Bosnian conflict ... apart from 1 incident where a entire village of Serbs were murdered by Croats and Colonel Bob Stewart opened fire on the Croats outside the village after he told the croat commander what he thought of him and his mens actions and their were also reports of muslims butchering Serbs and that was hushed up as well .... I fully understand Serbs feelings towards Croats/Muslims you have been victims for hundreds of years by these people ... I have this book about the Waffen SS "Loyalty is my Honor" I bought it because I wanted to understand why they did it .... and several sections go on about Croats and their treatment of Serbs .... complaints were made to OKB and Himmler about Croats being inhuman and that coming from the Waffen SS .... I like to think of myself to being open minded ... I don't like being told from just the one side

During Kosovo's war, serbian army downed two -as Pierre Sprey- F-117, and one B-2 A, but for evident geopolitic reasons US could not admit..







These are the true concret result of NATO bombing's campaign agaisnt Serbia in 1999.

As you can realize, -this is what I claimed for a while - the damage on the serbian army was at most very very low. In fact the serbian army was completely  intact, and ready to resist US agression against this little country, in a fair ground battle. But US did not want, in fact they feared serbian ground forces. The US coward trap on Iraqi army in Kuwait during Desert Storm few years before did not function against serbian army. For US it was like a joker, you could use it only once, but not twice times. After the losses of F-117s and the B-2 NATO aircrafts bombed at higher altitude, but at this range, the bombardments were completely inaccurate. Now, Talk me about the so called effectiveness of this shits of A-10 Warthog, M1 Abrams, or F-16, or F-15 E, F-15 C etc.... Nothing,... just a hype.

Enjoy "nice" movie about Serbs and 1999.

Militarov wrote:

Enjoy "nice" movie about Serbs and 1999.

First thing I will watch when I get home from work

Eternal glory to the heroes from Košare



Members of 63rd para brigade of Yugoslav army

"Gen. David Goldfein, a battle-tested command pilot who flew combat missions in the Gulf War, the Afghanistan War, and in NATO's 1999 air war to force the president of the former Yugoslavia to end his campaign of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, has been nominated to be the service's next chief of staff, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

If approved, Goldfein will succeed Gen. Mark Welsh, who is retiring July 1. He has been the Air Force's vice chief of staff since August 2015.

"I'm extremely humbled by the nomination to serve as the Air Force's 21st chief of staff," Goldfein said in an Air Force release. "If confirmed, I pledge to serve our airmen and their families unwaveringly and honor our remarkable heritage and legacy of integrity, service and excellence."



Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James and Welsh also lauded Goldfein's selection in the release.

"Gen. Goldfein possesses the experience and vision needed to address dynamic global challenges and increasing military demand," James said. "He knows how to build and sustain key partnerships, has important warfighting experience, and will exercise the critical judgment required to balance our manpower and resources as we shape tomorrow's Air Force. There is not a better person to lead our airmen into the next century of airpower dominance."

So, guy that was shot down over Yugoslavia is to become commander of US Airforce.






Source: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2016/04/26/goldfein-nominated-next-chief-staff/83542108/

General David Joofein ? Well I never did ! A worthless propagandist who has been 'tested' in combat (and failed), is now leading anti-Russia propaganda in the airforce is a joo. I would never have guessed.

On this day, 17 years ago commander of 204th fighter squadron Milenko Pavlović died flying over city where he was born trying to intercept NATO aircrafts.



This is him flying just a year earlier over Batajnica airfrield.

Order from High command came that they are to try fly and defend important storage facilities near Valjevo and ammunition factory (what was left of it). Some young pilot pulled the shortest straw, however Milenko called and said ground crew to keep the pilot from entering aircraft, because "if someone has to die today its him". He flew aganist advancing group of 16 NATO fighter-bombers in region around town of Valjevo.

He flew very agressive trying to scare them off, which he for short period of time even managed however his power generator failed during flight so he went blind without radar. He was hit 12 minutes later by missiles launched from Netherlands F16s. They launched 3 missiles aganist him from long distance and teritory of Bosnia and Herzegovina. His last words to ground control were "They have me", after his SPO device started blinking.

UCK fighter 1999. powered by black eye and dislocated shoulder

Militarov wrote:

UCK fighter 1999. powered by black eye and dislocated shoulder

Aarrrggh!

GarryB wrote:

Of course they still needed Typhoon because there were Flankers but the MiG was no longer something to be worried about. And that is why I think they should make them because the very low western opinion of the aircraft family will bite them in the ass if they ever actually come up against some for real... ones that have been properly maintained and have modern missiles etc.

They did come up against MiG-29s in Serbia, which were soundly defeated due to massive AWACS/EW/numeric advantages.

First of all they was Yugoslavian MiGs, not Serbians, because in 1999 my country name was Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Second our MiGs lack of maintenance. They all was bought in 1987. and they dont go to cap overhaul after 7 years because FRY was under UN sanction between 1992-95 . After 1995 when sanction was abolished we have opportunity to send our MiGs to Belarus, to overhal and partial modernization but our president Milosevic didnt send them from his known cause. When NATO start bombing my country in 1999 on our MIG-29s expired all possible resources and they was junks at that time...on many planes radars stop working, SPOs, they lost power on their main systems....so they was easy targets to NATO pilots and planes because all NATO planes engage our MiG at range 30+ km...