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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    GarryB
    GarryB

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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Page 5 Empty Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:50 am

    They forget it is the US military umbrella that has kept them safe and free to let their armies atrophy for decades.

    Free from what exactly... the Cold War was just a lie... the idea that after living through and dealing with the consequences of Stalin and the German invasion, the Soviet Union did not want war, and the way it was built up and designed clearly was not prepared for or planning a war against Europe that would involve occupation... they simply didn't have the logistics... they would have needed to be equipped more along the lines of HATO in fact with their mobile IADS and attack system based around AWACS and JSTARs aircraft that could go anywhere for spreading communism.

    The west played the greatest magic trick of all... made the world think they were the good guys by blaming everyone else for doing things they had done or for things they were planning to do.

    Europe became a prison with the guards being the US instead of the Soviets as the US constantly suggested. The threat of invasion by the Soviet Union allowed them to control and spy on europe at an unprecedented level... and they have used it ever since to control who the west trades with and more importantly who they don't.

    The US keeping Europe safe... my arse.

    For now while there are still politicians in power that think more rationally about global events, this can be mitigated.

    Are you kidding... the UK essentially admitted they had former intel people operating a so called think tank whose express purpose was to find any politicians in the entire EU that might not be hard line anti putin and anti Russia and start actions against them to make sure they never get into any positions of power by spreading rumours to make sure they never get elected. Would you believe there is only one such organisation? The UK government funded this group to the tune of several million pounds over a rather short period of time. Do you think there are not dozens of other groups doing the same thing... ensuring the EU does as it is told and does not consider alternatives... or they will get accusations of being anti semetic like Corban in the UK or accused of rape like Assange was...

    But really.... who cares... why would Russia want good relations with the EU... they have been doing the wrong things so long they don't understand the difference between right and wrong anymore anyway.

    However, we also have conscription and efforts by citizens and government to promote patriotic education. Yes, people on the street in Moscow can't even name a single WW2 battle, but the people in the small towns and the villages still live and breathe like Russians. That has always been the case, our state is held up on the backs of people who fill the voids between the few large europeanised metropolises.

    I think that is more a problem... what the west calls westernisation is just urbanisation... there is nothing particularly western about urbanised people becoming detached from reality.

    I remember having a chat in the 1990s to a guy who lived in a big city in South Korea and we were talking about military units using ropes and what sort of boots to wear and that sort of thing. He couldn't believe that anyone could fall over when moving cross country on uneven ground carrying a heavy pack and rifle... (to be clear I have never served in the military but I have been out in the bush hunting with a rifle and a heavy pack). When moving through serious mountains sometimes it makes sense to have one guy leave his gear and climb down and then up a ravine with a rope which he can secure on the other side and then move the entire group across by rope rather than having everyone climb down and up with full kit... in fact most of the time that is easier where there are no tracks.

    He couldn't agree... he thought it was stupid to use ropes, and didn't accept that every soldier wasn't much better than any mountain climber but with a heavy pack and rifle as well. He also didn't think people fell over in the bush... of course he had seen all sorts of videos and read books but had never been out in the bush himself but only a loser or clumsy person would fall over moving cross country in heavy bush or long grass on uneven terrain and a big heavy backpack and rifle don't matter either...
    Maximmmm
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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Page 5 Empty Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Maximmmm on Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:24 am

    GarryB wrote:
    They forget it is the US military umbrella that has kept them safe and free to let their armies atrophy for decades.

    Free from what exactly... the Cold War was just a lie... the idea that after living through and dealing with the consequences of Stalin and the German invasion, the Soviet Union did not want war, and the way it was built up and designed clearly was not prepared for or planning a war against Europe that would involve occupation... they simply didn't have the logistics... they would have needed to be equipped more along the lines of HATO in fact with their mobile IADS and attack system based around AWACS and JSTARs aircraft that could go anywhere for spreading communism.

    The west played the greatest magic trick of all... made the world think they were the good guys by blaming everyone else for doing things they had done or for things they were planning to do.

    Europe became a prison with the guards being the US instead of the Soviets as the US constantly suggested. The threat of invasion by the Soviet Union allowed them to control and spy on europe at an unprecedented level... and they have used it ever since to control who the west trades with and more importantly who they don't.

    The US keeping Europe safe... my arse.


    I mean I agree with you 100%, but when a society is militarized to at least some extent there is a collective understanding of the realities of the world.
    My point was more that because of the US military presence, people in Europe get to reduce the size of their militaries and pretend like they've unlocked the hidden cure for world peace while the only reason they aren't being gutted apart by hyenas is the US military presence. It's very striking when you talk to people and their opinion boils down to "but why have an army in the first place". I mean they even manage to ignore everything going on in Ukraine since 2014 like it's a parallel universe.



    Are you kidding... the UK essentially admitted they had former intel people operating a so called think tank whose express purpose was to find any politicians in the entire EU that might not be hard line anti putin and anti Russia and start actions against them to make sure they never get into any positions of power by spreading rumours to make sure they never get elected. Would you believe there is only one such organisation? The UK government funded this group to the tune of several million pounds over a rather short period of time. Do you think there are not dozens of other groups doing the same thing... ensuring the EU does as it is told and does not consider alternatives... or they will get accusations of being anti semetic like Corban in the UK or accused of rape like Assange was...

    But really.... who cares... why would Russia want good relations with the EU... they have been doing the wrong things so long they don't understand the difference between right and wrong anymore anyway.



    I agree with this as well. That's kind of my point, there's still politicians in the west that promote their country's interests, including by using methods you describe. When the nationless generation comes to power, everything is just going to lock down or drift apart.


    I think that is more a problem... what the west calls westernisation is just urbanisation... there is nothing particularly western about urbanised people becoming detached from reality.

    I remember having a chat in the 1990s to a guy who lived in a big city in South Korea and we were talking about military units using ropes and what sort of boots to wear and that sort of thing. He couldn't believe that anyone could fall over when moving cross country on uneven ground carrying a heavy pack and rifle... (to be clear I have never served in the military but I have been out in the bush hunting with a rifle and a heavy pack). When moving through serious mountains sometimes it makes sense to have one guy leave his gear and climb down and then up a ravine with a rope which he can secure on the other side and then move the entire group across by rope rather than having everyone climb down and up with full kit... in fact most of the time that is easier where there are no tracks.

    He couldn't agree... he thought it was stupid to use ropes, and didn't accept that every soldier wasn't much better than any mountain climber but with a heavy pack and rifle as well. He also didn't think people fell over in the bush... of course he had seen all sorts of videos and read books but had never been out in the bush himself but only a loser or clumsy person would fall over moving cross country in heavy bush or long grass on uneven terrain and a big heavy backpack and rifle don't matter either...

    Exactly, that's basically the point of my previous message. That the west is really underestimating how useless and stateless these urbanized populations are for the preservation of a nation-state.
    kvs
    kvs

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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Page 5 Empty Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:24 pm

    The clown who denied that uneven terrain is a problem with a heavy back or even without one sounds like a moron. But I guess he is typical of
    those who never were exposed to the situation. So for him it was all "theoretical" and his limited information and mental capacity produced
    an alternative "theory". But really, there ware too many people who seem to be mentally deprived when it comes to noticing details. Even
    going up some steps with a heavy pack should give you an idea how unstable it is.
    Maximmmm
    Maximmmm

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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Page 5 Empty Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Maximmmm on Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:58 pm

    kvs wrote:The clown who denied that uneven terrain is a problem with a heavy back or even without one sounds like a moron.    But I guess he is typical of
    those who never were exposed to the situation.   So for him it was all "theoretical" and his limited information and mental capacity produced
    an alternative "theory".   But really, there ware too many people who seem to be mentally deprived when it comes to noticing details.  Even
    going up some steps with a heavy pack should give you an idea how unstable it is.  

    I'm sure we've both met our fair share of people like that in Canada lol1
    Some of the vancouver city people... christ it's like a melting pot of stereotypes.
    GarryB
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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Page 5 Empty Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 am

    I got the feeling that his experience of running everywhere was from Half Life, and the very thought that moving across unknown uneven terrain that has had a foot path or road built there already is alien to him.

    I have similar arguments with greenies who think all nature should be protected, but when you talk to them they have never been out of the city and they use plastic wrap for food because it is convenient... if they were to list the bad guys of the world it would be hunters, because they destroy and kill for fun... they must be bastards. They don't realise that nature is being damaged by all of us. Traditionally a hunter would kill what he needed and he would carefully select the prey he hunted because he knew if he killed all the young strong males and all the females then pretty soon he would need something else to hunt and eat.

    Modern civilised... and most would add western, but that is unnecessary because any civilisation that concentrates human populations also need to mass produce food. Intensive crop farming has few ethical issues, but battery farming of chickens and pigs and other animals is shocking and quite distressing... I can certainly understand a lefty urban person being upset about that if they knew, but I know from experience hunting, you don't go out and just shoot everything... it is not some mass murder spree... this is hunting over an enormous area for specific animals that have lived a relatively long life in the wild compared to any battery farmed animal. It has been able to roam and live their lives not cooped up in a tiny cell where they get fed rubbish food and growth hormones so they have lots of meat by the time they are slaughtered when they are 3 or 4 years old... when they find out most urban people become vegans, which is good because if they became hunters there honestly isn't enough wild animals to feed the populations of most countries anyway.

    The problem is human expansion into natural habitats, and that is what is causing the loss of species we haven't even discovered yet.

    I am sure the people in control are working on something to make people infertile and they intend to use it against the poor majority... the scary and sad thing is that I think it would probably be the best thing for the world at large, but would like to see the people planning it removed from the gene pool first because their track record so far show they have been the worst thing for human kind in terms of direction and control in terms of morality and ethics...

    BTW he was also certain that Russia was totally finished as a world power and that by now they would have withdrawn from the UNSC and handed in their nukes and MiG and Sukhoi would be gone and their new fighters today would be handmedown F-16s from Europe as they adopt their new F-35 super fighters.

    He was right about China becoming more powerful, but he assumed the US would still be all powerful and moving forward...

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