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    B.R.I.C.S. Discussion

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:09 am

    BRICS is not some new boys club to replace the old boys club, BRICS is about countries trying to work together but not to gang up to fight each other or anyone else.

    The goal is to trade and work together to develop link and help with growth and development in your own country and in other countries too.

    The west thinks their only chance to be comfortable and wealthy is for everyone else to be poor and to steal from them everything they have before they realise its value.

    BRICS is about helping everyone up so everyone can enjoy a more comfortable life without screwing over someone else to do it.

    Russias problem is that a portion of the population were brain washed in to thinking the west were good and fair and if Russia is nice to them and give them cheap energy and raw materials that they will not be a threat and everyone can grow and develop peacefully.

    Instead they have advanced their military bases closer and closer to Russian borders and turned countries against Russia and encouraged anti Russian feelings every where they could.

    There was no thanks for helping in Afghanistan, there was no thanks for the warning about 11/9, there was no thanks for anything at all.

    In fact there was just anger and Russia aggressively not moving back as HATO bases moved closer, with NGOs used to pollute Russian society and fund idiots like Navalny and Vagina Riot.

    Russia is not on its own, the rest of the world is supporting Russia in their neutrality and Russia does not need any more... they have a military and a nuclear weapons arsenal to say **** off America we don't need you, and as time goes by BRICS will develop a new trading currency and trading system and international organisations that are not blatantly controlled by the west and the BRICS countries can use those to disentangle themselves from the west.

    Right now they are vulnerable and their economies would not survive the way Russia has because the west never really let Russia fully join the international community through the international organisations they control and manipulate... it isn't easy for Russia, but it is good for Russia not to be tied into western institutions any more.

    Over time as BRICS expands and trade expands and these countries start to really develop and grow because the ropes the west has been using to tie the hands of the world have been removed and more countries decide to join... even Micron wanted to sit in on a session to hear what is happening... not that he will be allowed because he breaks the basic rules of BRICS... don't think it is OK to sanction another country because that country things differently about things than you do... like the US and EU and HATO do.

    Being part of BRICS any country is entitled to think the US is right about Russia in the Ukraine... you can have your own opinion and policies and state them openly without punishment. What they can't do is punish Russia because the US and EU want them to.

    Using economics as a weapon is self destructive as we are seeing with the US using its currency as a weapon, which has destroyed it, because the most important thing about currency and investments is confidence and security.

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    Post  Kiko Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:58 pm

    From Bukhara to BRICS, Searching for Light in the Darkness of Insanity, by Pepe Escobar for Strategic Culture Foundation. 08.18.2023.

    Bukhara The Noble, the “Dome of Islam”, with a history stretching back 2.500 years, bears too many marvels to mention: from the two-millennia-old Ark, a fortress around which the city developed, to the 48-meter high Kalon minaret, built in 1127, which so impressed Genghis Khan that he ordered it not to be razed.

    The elegant, single turquoise band near the top of the minaret is the earliest example of glazed tilework all across the Heartland.

    According to the Shanameh, the Persian epic, the hero Siyavush founded the city after marrying the daughter of neighboring Afrasiab. Even before the Ancient Silk Roads were in business, Bukhara thrived as a caravan crossroads – its city gates pointing to Merv (in today’s Turkmenistan), Herat (in western Afghanistan), Khiva and Samarkand.

    Bukhara’s apex was in the 9th-10th centuries under the Samanid dynasty, as it turned into a Mecca of Persian culture and science. That was the time of al-Biruni, the poet Rudaki and of course Avicenna: they all had access to the legendary Treasure of Wisdom, a library that in the Islamic world would only be rivalled by the House of Wisdom in Baghdad.

    Bukhara was largely razed by Genghis Khan and the Mongols in 1220 (yes: only the minaret was spared). When the great Moroccan traveler Ibn Battuta visited in 1333, most of the city was still in ruins.

    But then, in 1318, someone very special had been born in Kasri Orifon, a village outside of Bukhara. At first he was simply known as Muhammad, after his father and grandfather, whose origins reached Hazrat Ali. But History ruled that Muhammad would eventually become famous all over the lands of Islam as the Sufi saint Bahauddin Naqshbandi.

    What’s in a name? Everything. Bahauddin means “the light of religion” and Naqshbandi means “chaser”. His upbringing was enriched by several pirs (“saints”) and sheikhs living in and around Bukhara. He spent almost all his life in these oases, very poor and always relying on his own manual labor, with no slaves or servants.

    Bahauddin Naqshbandi ended up founding a highly influential tariqa – Islamic school – based on a very simple concept: “Occupy your heart with Allah and your hands with work”. The concept was developed in other 11 rules, or rashas (“drops”).

    What’s coming out of those “five fingers”

    A visit to the Bahauddin Naqshbandi complex outside of Bukhara, centered around the tomb of the 14th century Sufi saint who is in fact the city’s spiritual protector, is an illuminating experience: such a peaceful atmosphere enveloping an appeasing network of holy stones, “wishing trees” and the odd sacrificial offering.

    This is the essence of what could be defined as a parallel Islam infusing so many latitudes across the Heartland, combining an animist past with formal Islamic teachings.

    At the complex, we meet scores of lovely, colorfully dressed Uzbek women from all regions and pilgrims from all over Central Asia but also from West and South Asia. Uzbek President Mirzoyoyev, extremely popular, was here late last week, and he came straight from the nearby, brand new, airport.

    This oasis of peace and meditation offers not only a sharp contrast to the toxic turbulence of the times but also inspires us to search for sanity among the madness. After all, one of Naqshbandi’s rashas states, “our way is conversation, good deeds are found only in mutual communication, but not in seclusion.”

    So let’s apply Sufi wisdom to the upcoming, possibly ground-breaking moment that should solidify the path of the Global Majority towards a more equitable, less deranged pattern of international relations: the 15th BRICS summit in South Africa next week.

    Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has coined a concise definition that embodies a fascinating mix of Confucianism and Sufism: “The BRICS countries are like five fingers: short and long if extended, but a powerful fist if clenched together.”

    How to clench these fingers into a powerful fist has been the work of quite a few sherpas in preparation for the summit. But soon this will not be a matter related to a fist, but to fists, arms, legs and in fact, a whole body. That’s where BRICS+ comes in.

    Among the network of new multilateral organizations involved in preparing and acting out a new system of international relations, BRICS is now seen as the premier Global South, or Global Majority, or “Global Globe” (copyright Lukashenko) platform.

    We are still far away from the transition towards a new “world system” – to quote Wallerstein – but without BRICS even baby steps would be impossible.

    South Africa will seal the first coordinates for the BRICS+ expansion – which may go on indefinitely. After all, large swathes of the “Global Globe” already have stated, formally (23 nations) and informally (countless “expressions of interest”, according to the South African Foreign Ministry) they want in.

    The official list – subject to change – of those nations who want to be part of BRICS+ as soon as possible is a Global South’s who’s who: Algeria, Argentina, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Egypt, Ethiopia, Honduras, Indonesia, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Morocco, Nigeria, the State of Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Thailand, UAE, Venezuela and Vietnam.

    Then there’s Africa: the “five fingers”, via South African President Cyril Ramaphosa, invited no less than 67 leaders from Africa and the Global South to follow the BRICS-Africa Outreach and BRICS+ Dialogues.

    This all spells out what would be the key BRICS rasha, to evoke Naqshbandi: total Africa and Global South inclusion – all nations engaged in profitable conversations and equally respected in affirming their sovereignty.

    The Persians strike back

    A case can be made that Iran is in a privileged position to become one of the first BRICS+ members. It helps that Tehran already enjoys strategic partnership status with both Russia and China and also is a key partner of India in the International North South Transportation Corridor (INSTC).

    Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian has already stated, on the record that, “the partnership between Iran and BRICS has in fact already started in some areas. In the field of transport, the North-South transport corridor connecting India to Russia via Iran is actually part of BRICS’ transport project.”

    In parallel to breakthroughs on BRICS+, the “five fingers” will be relatively cautious on the de-dollarization front. Sherpas have already confirmed, off the record, there will be no official announcement of a new currency, but of more bilateral trade and multilateral trade using the members’ own currencies: for the moment the notorious R5 (renminbi, ruble, real, rupee and rand).

    Belarussian leader Lukashenko, who coined “Global Globe” as a motto as strong, if not even more seductive than Global South, was the first to evoke a crucial policy coup that may take place further on down the road, with BRICS+ in effect: the merger of BRICS and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

    Now Lukashenko is being echoed in public by former South African ambassador Kingsley Makhubela – as well as scores of “Global Globe” diplomats and analysts off the record: “In the future, BRICS and the SCO would match to form one entity (…) Because having the BRICS and the SCO running in parallel with the same members would not make sense.”

    No question about that. The key BRICS drivers are Russia and China, with India slightly less influential for a number of complex reasons. On the SCO, Russia, China, India, Iran and Pakistan sit at the same table. The Eurasia focus of the SCO can easily be transplanted into BRICS+. Both organizations are “Global Globe”-centered; driving towards multipolarity; and most of all, committed to de-dollarization on all fronts.

    It is indeed possible to have a Sufi reading of all these geopolitical and geoeconomic tectonic plates in motion. As much as the promoters of Divide and Rule as well as assorted dogs of war would be clueless visiting the Naqshbandi complex outside of Bukhara, the “Global Globe” may find all the answers it seeks as it engages in a process of conversation and mutual respect.

    Bless these global souls – and may they find knowledge as if they were revisiting the Treasure of Wisdom of 10th century Bukhara.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/from-bukhara-to-brics-searching-for-light-in-the-darkness-of-insanity/

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    Post  gc3762 Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:57 pm

    ⚡Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE - Invited to be FULL BRICS Members from Jan 2024

    Just In @RT_India_official

    MORE INFO:

    https://sputnikglobe.com/20230824/argentina-iran-saudi-arabia-egypt-uae-and-ethiopia-get-brics-membership-1112840923.html

    The Johannesburg-hosted BRICS summit is running from August 22 to 24, with the leaders of China, India, Brazil and South Africa in attendance. Russia is represented by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, while Russian President Vladimir Putin is taking part in the event via videoconference.
    The new members of the BRICS will be Argentina, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Ethiopia. They will become full members from January 1, 2024.
    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said that BRICS leaders believe that the time has come to use local currencies and alternative payment systems.
    Earlier, South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor said that BRICS had agreed on the issue of enlargement, and adopted a document outlining its principles.
    BRICS unites the world's largest developing economies, namely, Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. About two dozen other countries have expressed their interest in joining the club, South Africa's BRICS Sherpa Anil Sooklal said earlier this month.
    South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor speaks about the BRICS nations adopting key principles of the group's expansion. - Sputnik International, 1920, 23.08.2023
    World
    BRICS Countries Adopt Document Containing Principles of Enlargement

    The Johannesburg-hosted BRICS summit is running from August 22 to 24, with the leaders of China, India, Brazil and South Africa in attendance. Russia is represented by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, while Russian President Vladimir Putin is taking part in the event via videoconference.
    Sputnik comes to you live as South African President and BRICS Chair, Cyril Ramaphosa, announces the outcomes of the 15th BRICS Summit at the Sandton Convention Centre in Johannesburg.
    Ramaphosa is expected to announce the names of countries that will be invited to join the BRICS group of nations as full members after BRICS leaders conclude their discussions on the issue.

    Earlier, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi voiced his support for expanding BRICS during his speech on the second day of the historic summit.
    President Vladimir Putin said that Russia, which will assume the rotating presidency of BRICS next year, will host the bloc's next summit in the city of Kazan in October 2024. Putin noted that the association of five nations, "has established itself as a respected entity on the international stage and has consistently strengthened its position in international affairs."


    Last edited by gc3762 on Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Update)

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 24, 2023 4:13 pm

    Excellent news.

    An economic group that does not demand all members conform or be ruled over by one member...

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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:54 pm

    https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2023/08/24/brics-getting-bigger-but-is-it-any-stronger/?fbclid=IwAR0zxmY1lMG-JpwnzwMnt77QMDguZjhu9tk7n13GFyFB8zkx0cfzhrkxb3Y

    Michael Roberts wrote:The five BRICS nations now have a combined GDP larger than that of the G7 in purchasing power parity terms (a measure of what GDP can buy domestically in goods and services).

    [However], in nominal dollar terms, which in my opinion is what matters, the BRICS countries are still well behind the G7. Combined, the BRICS bloc had a GDP of USD26trn in 2022, which is about the same as the US alone.

    From this summit, more countries have been invited to join as full members:  Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.  But even if that happens, the BRICS group will remain a much smaller and weaker economic force than the G7 imperialist bloc.  Moreover, the BRICS are very diverse in population, GDP per head, geographically and in trade composition.  And the ruling elites in these countries are often at loggerheads (China v India; Brazil v Russia).

    So, unlike the G7, which has increasingly homogenous economic objectives under the hegemonic control of the US, the BRICS group is disparate in wealth and income and without any unified economic objectives – except maybe to try and move away from the economic dominance of the US and in particular, the US dollar. And even that objective is going to be difficult to achieve. As I have pointed out in previous posts, even though there has been a relative decline in US economic dominance globally and in the dollar, the latter remains the most important currency by far for trade, investment and national reserves. (...) multilateral institutions that could be an alternative to the existing IMF and World Bank (controlled by the imperialist economies) are still tiny and weak.

    Even so, international rivalry, politically, economically and militarily, is going to hot up in this decade.  The days of complete domination by the imperialist bloc under the US are over – because globalization ie unimpeded trade and financial flows of the last two decades of the 20th century, is over.

    As the profitability of capital fell back in the major economies in the first two decades of this century, the struggle for surplus value by the major capitalist economies has intensified.  And this is leading to a fragmentation of economic power.  The US-led imperialist bloc is still dominant, but its dominance is being questioned as never before.
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:38 pm

    They needed to set clearer requirements for new BRICS members first. Ethiopia is on the brink of the civil war.
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    Post  par far Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:01 pm

    I don’t think that the BRICS now and expanded, will have much of an effect because too many countries in the BRICS expanded have too much west influence.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:41 am

    The five BRICS nations now have a combined GDP larger than that of the G7 in purchasing power parity terms (a measure of what GDP can buy domestically in goods and services).

    [However], in nominal dollar terms, which in my opinion is what matters, the BRICS countries are still well behind the G7. Combined, the BRICS bloc had a GDP of USD26trn in 2022, which is about the same as the US alone.

    Who cares?

    BRICS is not about having all the money, it is about working together despite China being a communist country and other countries being democracies, and having different religions and cultures, but trading and helping each other to develop and grow in the direction they want to develop and grow in, instead of being replications of the US and its laws and rules.

    BRICS countries can have any laws about the death penalty or abortion or alphabet people they want and should not be pressured by other members to change their views.

    The group is going to grow and develop faster than the stagnating western based G7, and with new countries that is only going to increase growth and development and lift weak economies up and help poor economies to develop and expand and give their people a better and more comfortable life for more of their people instead of a few rich people.

    But even if that happens, the BRICS group will remain a much smaller and weaker economic force than the G7 imperialist bloc.

    That does not matter, what matters is that BRICS is not an imperialistic bloc.

    And the ruling elites in these countries are often at loggerheads (China v India; Brazil v Russia).

    That does not matter, because they are not invading third countries or starting a fourth Reich like the G-7 is trying to do.

    They are just a trading group that does not impose culture or politics or religion on other countries in the group.

    As I have pointed out in previous posts, even though there has been a relative decline in US economic dominance globally and in the dollar, the latter remains the most important currency by far for trade, investment and national reserves. (...) multilateral institutions that could be an alternative to the existing IMF and World Bank (controlled by the imperialist economies) are still tiny and weak.

    Any alternative starts out tiny and weak, til it gains momentum and US actions to stop it only encourage it to expand faster and faster, while G-7 nations are stagnating or going backwards... ironically in some cases because of the actions of the US... like the destruction of the Nord stream pipes delivering energy security to Germany and Europe... with friends like that...

    The days of complete domination by the imperialist bloc under the US are over – because globalization ie unimpeded trade and financial flows of the last two decades of the 20th century, is over.

    The point is that the US leads a block with money and military might and a demand for resources that a tiny third world country would need relations with if they want farm machinery or mining machinery or expertise, and consumer goods etc etc so they had to have relations with the west, but BRICS is creating an alternative block that wont make you open your markets exclusively to their predatory companies so they can make money on your resources while bribing a few top officials in your government leaving the rest of your country in poverty.

    France was robbing Niger of its Uranium resources for peanuts at a time when 90% of Nigers population didn't have electricity... get some Russian or Chinese companies in there to develop their uranium resources and pay them what they are worth and that money alone could pay for all sorts of infrastructure and development for their country.

    That is what BRICS offers and why more and more countries will want to join.

    Six new countries at the start of next year and that is just the beginning because the more countries the more cooperation and trade and the more nation building... asian countries don't want to become the US, they want to become Singapore... law and order and comfort for more than just a few.

    They needed to set clearer requirements for new BRICS members first. Ethiopia is on the brink of the civil war.

    BRICS is not military and would not be obliged to send troops to help.

    Membership of BRICS might help stability and allow the country to grow and develop... it is not like the existing BRICS members have no experience of civil wars and there would be a lot of advice available if requested.

    I don’t think that the BRICS now and expanded, will have much of an effect because too many countries in the BRICS expanded have too much west influence.

    The point is that previously progress demanded ties with the west because China on their own or Russia on their own could not provide the breadth and depth of trade to completely replace western countries for growth and development... but now they are together as BRICS there is more breadth and depth and also the lack of an active hand trying to hold you back and stop you from getting out of that third world box they put you in.

    And it is not just them helping you, you can help them too... it is mutual growth and development.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:56 am

    caveat emptor wrote:They needed to set clearer requirements for new BRICS members first. Ethiopia is on the brink of the civil war.

    Ethiopia's civil war ended, despite whatever attempts by outside actors to prolong it or keep trying to destabilise the situation. It was in any case just confined to part of the country.

    And Ethiopia is the 2nd most populous country in Africa after Nigeria and a major friend of both Russia and China. Not a surprise at all that it was accepted.

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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:43 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Ethiopia's civil war ended, despite whatever attempts by outside actors to prolong it or keep trying to destabilise the situation. It was in any case just confined to part of the country.
    You're wrong. You're thinking about war with Tigray, which is indeed over. But, this is not what I was talking about. There's a constant strife in a region of Oromia, which is populated by biggest ethnic group in Ethiopia, and also in Amhara, which is one of the two major Habesha groups that basically made Abyssinia and later Ethiopian identity ( Amhara and Tigray). Those two groups are also main proponents of Tewahedo Orthodox Church. 
    Unfortunately, Ethiopia is  ethnically very divided and tensions between ethnic groups are running high atm. I could also tell you that thing with Tigray is still not closed for a specific reason, but that would take too much space and it's not worth it. 
    As for the country itself, outside of AA and Bahir Dar it is one of the poorest countries in the world. Great demographics (large and very young population) with very undeveloped provinces and big ethnic and systemic problems. 

    In any case, it looks like Argentina is not certain, since both houses need to vote for it first and current president is on his way out. Other two main candidates are strongly opposing BRICS ( Milei is very libertarian and pro-USA and wants to introduce USD and recognize Taiwan and Bullrich is also conservative center right and, at the moment, has most votes in polling).
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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:01 pm

    The two opposition candidates in Argentina spoke out against the BRICS. In case of winning, they will cancel the entry
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    Post  Begome Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:30 pm

    They should have invited Algeria instead...
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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:51 pm

    Indonesia was a perfect candidate, but they it is still too early for them. I expect to see them becoming members in the future.
    In any case, we will need to see more BRICS cooperation agreements being signed to be able to judge real impact organization will have.
    Building a currency clearing mechanism and setting up proper credit markets should be a first step, imo.

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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:33 pm

    https://www.rt.com/russia/581826-west-not-welcome-brics/

    Western countries not welcome at BRICS – Moscow

    Only nations that do not enforce sanctions against the group’s members can be admitted, Russian Deputy FM Sergey Ryabkov has said


    Speaking at a press conference following the BRICS summit in Johannesburg, South Africa, Ryabkov recalled that one of the key conditions for admittance to the group is “non-application of illegal sanctions against any of the members of the association.”

    Meanwhile, Western states “are following exactly the opposite course, so there is no question of inviting anyone from this group not only to join BRICS, but even to participate in its events,” Ryabkov stressed, vowing to stick to this line.

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:36 pm

    Getting Iran to commit is a big coup in of itself. Flipping Saudi Arabia and UAE is fucking insane.

    You think OPECS+ was bad, wait till you see this monster that is the energy of the Middle East wedded to Russian hard power.

    What was China thinking? You just handed the keys to this century to Russia Laughing

    The energy weapon that did the Soviet Union in, is now going to be wielded by her successor to carve out her rightful place in history.

    Pure poetry.

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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:39 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:https://www.rt.com/russia/581826-west-not-welcome-brics/

    Western countries not welcome at BRICS – Moscow

    Only nations that do not enforce sanctions against the group’s members can be admitted, Russian Deputy FM Sergey Ryabkov has said


    Speaking at a press conference following the BRICS summit in Johannesburg, South Africa, Ryabkov recalled that one of the key conditions for admittance to the group is “non-application of illegal sanctions against any of the members of the association.”

    Meanwhile, Western states “are following exactly the opposite course, so there is no question of inviting anyone from this group not only to join BRICS, but even to participate in its events,” Ryabkov stressed, vowing to stick to this line.

    Your country should be looked as prime candidate, along with Indonesia. What was the reason for Vietnam not applying for membership?
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:48 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Your country should be looked as prime candidate, along with Indonesia. What was the reason for Vietnam not applying for membership?

    Honestly speaking this issue I do not have a solid understanding and I don't want to make wild guess, either.

    But Vietnam did attend the BRICS summit and did express its interest in the development of the group.

    And Vietnam has good bilateral relationship with two key members: China and Russia.
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:21 am

    Did Algeria want to join?

    The new members will mean that 80% of world oil export generating countries will be in one non-US-dominated organization.

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    Post  Begome Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:49 am

    kvs wrote:Did Algeria want to join?  

    The new members will mean that 80% of world oil export generating countries will be in one non-US-dominated organization.

    Yes.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:19 am

    lyle6 wrote:Getting Iran to commit is a big coup in of itself. Flipping Saudi Arabia and UAE is fucking insane.

    You think OPECS+ was bad, wait till you see this monster that is the energy of the Middle East wedded to Russian hard power.

    What was China thinking? You just handed the keys to this century to Russia Laughing

    The energy weapon that did the Soviet Union in, is now going to be wielded by her successor to carve out her rightful place in history.

    Pure poetry.

    Every balance of forces in only temporary. Any such wedding will only last while the West is still a threat and on everyone's case.
    Thankfully, the West is only too keen to continue digging themselves a hole.

    The key for BRICS is to create a multipolar world and the international practices and structures to go with it, not to function as a bloc itself. That way humanity can actually evolve a little.

    kvs wrote:Did Algeria want to join?  

    The new members will mean that 80% of world oil export generating countries will be in one non-US-dominated organization.


    Algeria wants to join. It probably will in the next round.

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:The two opposition candidates in Argentina spoke out against the BRICS. In case of winning, they will cancel the entry

    What's the mood on the street in Argentina?

    Is there enthusiasm for a different, fairer world order in general, for de-dollarization, and for BRICS?
    Because if there is, then the issue can turn out to be important enough for ordinary people for those opposition candidates to effectively disqualify themselves by voicing such opinions.

    Or are people brainwashed into neo-liberalism and globalist values in general?

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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:45 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    What's the mood on the street in Argentina?

    Is there enthusiasm for a different, fairer world order in general, for de-dollarization, and for BRICS?
    Because if there is, then the issue can turn out to be important enough for ordinary people for those opposition candidates to effectively disqualify themselves by voicing such opinions.

    Or are people brainwashed into neo-liberalism and globalist values in general?

    Bro, i don't think regular guy cares  much about that, honestly. Right now, people suffer severely because of high inflation. Check up the Milei guy. He is very unorthodox, to say the least. For him to get so much traction in the polls best describes how regular people think. Since 2018 country has been plagued by very high inflation and rising poverty. Scale of mismanagement is off the charts. When you look at general picture of the country, there's no reason not to thrive ( decent demographics, high education levels, good infrastructure, rich in commodities). I think that something like BRICS is a very abstract thing and hard to put at the first place in upcoming elections.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:06 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Every balance of forces in only temporary. Any such wedding will only last while the West is still a threat and on everyone's case.
    Thankfully, the West is only too keen to continue digging themselves a hole.
    Of the 3 superpowers only Russia shares the middle east's interest to extract as much value out of their energy resources as possible - everyone else wants to get that stuff as cheaply as they can. As long as this is true, they will always gravitate to Russia.

    Only the west's then military superiority kept this natural partnership at bay. But now that Russia has demonstrated that the west isn't so powerful as everyone thought the Arabs and Persians have simply realized that it is far more profitable to have Russia as their military backer and antagonize the west than it is the other way around.

    flamming_python wrote:
    The key for BRICS is to create a multipolar world and the international practices and structures to go with it, not to function as a bloc itself. That way humanity can actually evolve a little.
    We already have a useless big tent that everyone pisses in - its called the UN. BRICS was similarly useless, but with a couple members with overlapping core interests in the membership it might finally be useful.


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    Post  Hole Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:52 am

    But Vietnam did attend the BRICS summit and did express its interest in the development of the group.
    Wait for it!  Very Happy

    Just like Algeria, Vietnam will join soon. In the meantime both countries are on such friendly terms with Russia that
    a more formal "alliance" isn´t needed to make it clear to the rest of the world.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:51 pm

    What was China thinking? You just handed the keys to this century to Russia

    But the point of BRICS is not for China or India or Russia to take the crown of the USA... the point of BRICS is to lift everyone else up and bring yourself up to where most of your people can live in comfort and security, Russia does not want to expand at the cost of any other country and they don't want other countries to try to expand at the cost of Russia like Europe was trying to do by getting cheap resources from Russia while doing everything they could politically to keep Russia weak.

    Look at the countries that made it... Argentina, Saudi Arabia and Iran... think that has anything to do with trade lines and controlling trade routes?

    Your country should be looked as prime candidate, along with Indonesia. What was the reason for Vietnam not applying for membership?

    The good thing about BRICS is that it is about free fair trade and growth and helping yourself and others to grow, so the more members become part of it the more options each member has for trade and cooperation and development.

    But Vietnam did attend the BRICS summit and did express its interest in the development of the group.

    And Vietnam has good bilateral relationship with two key members: China and Russia.

    It would make sense to look and listen and make sure it is exactly what it appears to be before signing on, but I hope they realise that in this group they wont be told what type of government they can have and what laws they have to pass and what their preferred religion must be and that if you don't agree with Russia or China or India or any other country in the group then that is fine too.


    Every balance of forces in only temporary. Any such wedding will only last while the West is still a threat and on everyone's case.
    Thankfully, the West is only too keen to continue digging themselves a hole.

    I hope they will set the ground rules to ensure what has happened with the west does not happen with BRICS or anything BRICS evolves into.

    I am sure after WWII the Americans with their economically and militarily dominant position led them to think they will clean up these old colonial European countries and get them to follow honest democratic values... truth and justice was the American way... but somehow in their fight against Communism they turned into an imperial state worse than the Europeans all rolled together in the sense that they dominated everything and everyone with a few exceptions... Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea, Iran you know the list...

    The point is that BRICS is not supposed to gang up on anyone, so using it to damage western countries wouldn't work... if the west dropped all the sanctions it has imposed on all the countries of the world for whatever reason then there would be no good reason to not let them join too... but they wont because they can't... they wont give up power like that.

    The key for BRICS is to create a multipolar world and the international practices and structures to go with it, not to function as a bloc itself. That way humanity can actually evolve a little.

    Well said.

    Before we had every man for himself where a man or a woman could become a billionaire because of the tireless work of others that they clearly don't share their income fairly with, there was the village and the clan and the extended family, where you worked together to survive and helped each other... because with everyone acting on their own selfish interests can't build a house on their own... you need someone to make and deliver parts, you need a car and a dishwasher and an oven and other things you can't make yourself... the roads you drive down and footpaths you walk on etc etc... you can't make it all yourself...

    That is what it means by working from the shoulders of giants... it would take years to invent a coherent language that made sense and who knows how long to invent a number system that was actually useful and of course mathematics and physics and other things needed to do anything at all... you need teachers and parents and people to keep you safe and rules to follow etc etc.

    The US consumer model of everyone for themselves is inhumane and it leaves 99% of the population living in a trailer park as a workforce to keep the 1% nice and comfortable.

    Or are people brainwashed into neo-liberalism and globalist values in general?

    That will be the problem... the pro west pro US brigade can't win on truth and logic so they will have to lie and steal and kill to win... and don't think they wont.

    The western model means I don't give a shit about the average joe on the street, as long as I am in charge and I get the bribes and a comfortable future the entire population of my country can go screw itself.

    Look at US politics... healthcare for everyone... call it communism and it fails. Call it Obamacare and no Republican will vote for it despite it meaning affordable healthcare for all Americans. I am not endorsing Obamacare BTW, I don't know anything about it other than it is for universal healthcare, which I know is a much better system based on what I have heard about what America already has.

    We already have a useless big tent that everyone pisses in - its called the UN. BRICS was similarly useless, but with a couple members with overlapping core interests in the membership it might finally be useful.

    The UN is a joke, but BRICS is not military and it is not intended to solve problems between states, it is more of a trade group mixed with a support group to help each other sort out internal problems with advice and expertise.

    The countries in BRICS and joining BRICS are not perfect but they are joining to work together to get better without the occupation element you get from the west.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:55 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Every balance of forces in only temporary. Any such wedding will only last while the West is still a threat and on everyone's case.
    Thankfully, the West is only too keen to continue digging themselves a hole.
    Of the 3 superpowers only Russia shares the middle east's interest to extract as much value out of their energy resources as possible - everyone else wants to get that stuff as cheaply as they can. As long as this is true, they will always gravitate to Russia.

    Only the west's then military superiority kept this natural partnership at bay. But now that Russia has demonstrated that the west isn't so powerful as everyone thought the Arabs and Persians have simply realized that it is far more profitable to have Russia as their military backer and antagonize the west than it is the other way around.

    Which makes Russia and the Middle East natural competitors rather than business partners if anything

    It's just that neither appreciates having their prices, protectionist policies, govt. models, etc... being dictated to by such an overly-entitled customer as the US & pals. Hence why they've banded up.

    Truth be told though the Middle East will run out of oil within a decade or two, at least oil that's so cheap to extract. In anticipation of that they're focusing on establishing these new innovative economies right now, opening up, creating cosmopolitan and financial centers. In Dubai's footsteps are following Saudi Arabia, are following Qatar and Bahrain, etc..
    And this means that they and Russia will have a lot more to offer each other rather than simply a cartel on prices and security co-operation. We already see it in fact with the development of Islamic finance in Russia, the relocation of Russian capital to Dubai, and constantly rising Russian food exports to the Middle East too.

    flamming_python wrote:We already have a useless big tent that everyone pisses in - its called the UN. BRICS was similarly useless, but with a couple members with overlapping core interests in the membership it might finally be useful.

    That's because the UN is being griefed by the same US & pals. In fact they've pretty much taken it over. Anyone who speaks out gets a beer bottle smashed over their heads.

    You remove those anti-social elements from the equation and suddenly this sort of multi-national format is capable of crossing leaps and bounds in no time and achieving results

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