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50 posters

    B.R.I.C.S. Discussion

    lancelot
    lancelot


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    B.R.I.C.S. Discussion  - Page 12 Empty Re: B.R.I.C.S. Discussion

    Post  lancelot Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:25 pm

    kvs wrote:Behind the curve how?   Russia does not need this crap domestically.   When BRICS pay is organized, which is primarily a political issue,
    then this curve lag will evapourate.  

    Pioneering is a bit of hyperbole.   Alternatives to SWIFT are happening because of the current geopolitical climate.   If there was no
    coercive incentive then SWIFT would be used indefinitely.    
    Remember how the US threatened to cut access to SWIFT to the Turkish banks which accepted the Russian SPFS and Mir card? How the Turkish banks acquiesced? How they are now doing the same to Chinese banks? What makes you think the US wouldn't do the same to this BRICS pay? The only way BRICS pay will go through is if there is more transaction volume between BRICS nations than between them and Western nations. This is only conceivable because today China is a large trading partner for most of the world. Between China with most of the manufactured products you could want, and Russia and the Persian Gulf nations having loads of oil and other mineral resources, you won't need to trade with the West. The more the West continues trying to block other nations from using SWIFT the faster this move will happen.

    China also already exports more to the third world than to nations like the US. They could drop US trade like a stone if they wanted. The USs attempts at decoupling their economy from China have only assisted in this process.

    Like I said the main obstacle to this in BRICS is India. They insist on remaining tied together industrially more to the West than China, and a lot of their trade deficit is balanced because of income from services rendered to the West. Russia needs to figure out a way to balance its trade with India and reduce their economic links with the West.

    sepheronx likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    B.R.I.C.S. Discussion  - Page 12 Empty Re: B.R.I.C.S. Discussion

    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:59 am

    Remember how the US threatened to cut access to SWIFT to the Turkish banks which accepted the Russian SPFS and Mir card? How the Turkish banks acquiesced? How they are now doing the same to Chinese banks? What makes you think the US wouldn't do the same to this BRICS pay?

    But they can't, because if no one can pay Russia for energy or fertiliser or Uranium then no one can buy it.

    If no one can buy these things from Russia then the international price will go up which will hurt the US.

    Only recently the US told the Ukraine to stop hitting Russian oil refineries because the effect on energy prices was hurting the US at election time...

    Turkish and Chinese banks are afraid of getting kicked off SWIFT because there is no BRICS Pay yet to use as an alternative.

    Once BRICS Pay is available then the US wont threaten anyone regarding SWIFT or they will just create demand for BRICS Pay and destroy SWIFT.

    Amusing the Europeans that run SWIFT have let the US bully them into bullying other countries over this so called international financial system because in doing so they are essentially destroying it.

    But of course it is all Putins fault obviously.

    The only way BRICS pay will go through is if there is more transaction volume between BRICS nations than between them and Western nations.

    BRICS Pay is going to work because the countries that are members of BRICS already have equal or better economic power than the G-7, so there will be plenty of money flowing through the system to make a healthy safe system... and of course depending on what the US does with SWIFT threats and bullying it will certainly be the only way for many countries to buy things from Russia and China...

    The west might even have to join BRICS Pay to buy from Russia and China... I rather doubt BRICS Pay will share information with the US the way SWIFT most likely does so the transactions will be private.

    That is a problem the west has been having regarding Russian energy exports... sales through western markets and shipped via western shipping companies and insured by western insurance agencies... they pretty much had advanced warning of what was going to whom and when. Now it is a black box... Russian ships and non western insurance don't have to tell the west anything.

    This is only conceivable because today China is a large trading partner for most of the world. Between China with most of the manufactured products you could want, and Russia and the Persian Gulf nations having loads of oil and other mineral resources, you won't need to trade with the West. The more the West continues trying to block other nations from using SWIFT the faster this move will happen.

    Indeed... it is going to be successful because we can rely on the US pushing countries one after the other away from SWIFT and this will be a viable alternative.


    China also already exports more to the third world than to nations like the US. They could drop US trade like a stone if they wanted. The USs attempts at decoupling their economy from China have only assisted in this process.

    Putin could not have achieved the level of independence from the west without the support of the west pushing Russia away, and Xi is going to find it easier to push away from the west with idiots like both Biden and Trump who want to make Russia and China enemies of the US of A.

    Of course if either woke up and smelt the roses and realised partnerships and cooperation will benefit America more than competition and confrontation I don't think either Xi or Putin would believe they were sincere anyway.

    Like I said the main obstacle to this in BRICS is India. They insist on remaining tied together industrially more to the West than China, and a lot of their trade deficit is balanced because of income from services rendered to the West. Russia needs to figure out a way to balance its trade with India and reduce their economic links with the West.

    I am sure it will fix itself... as the west starts to fall apart and demands India go to war with China to damage China.... ironically the way Russia has damaged the Ukraine.... then I suspect India will decline that offer and the US and the west will get the hump and do something that pushes India away for good...

    The voters of America don't get any choice... it all comes down to the 1% and they want idiots or old men that will do as they are told, and even if they got someone into the seat of President who could make real changes the US system is designed to stop him. How much damage can he do in two terms? Enough to make things worse so the next guy will just reverse all the changes before it has time to actually make a difference and start making things better.

      Current date/time is Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:49 pm