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    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News - Page 10 Empty Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:51 am

    India has published a video of the BLT-72 bridgelayer based on the Soviet T-72 tank

    Those stones sticking out of the road appear to be a very good way of stopping people cutting corners at an intersection....

    Regarding the Leclerc... it looks like Micron is offering joint production with India for their new tank to replace the Leclerc.... so the deal would not be to replace the T-72s and T-90s with Leclercs... it would be with vapourware.

    Now I can see why France would make this offer... no idea what state their next new tank programme is in and at the moment how many foreign partners are involved but going by history there will be disagreements and frustration and most countries will go it alone... so getting an order for almost 2K tanks would be a good idea for France because it would stop it from being too expensive for them to just buy for themselves.

    For India I can see how they want to diversify their weapons purchases... and by 2030 they would have plenty of time to look at the T-14 and see what issues it may have by then... of course by then they might have the T-14M2, but it means they can sign up to a deal with France and just wait... just like the 5th gen fighter deal with Russia... if you don't like the way it is going or they want money for investing in the project then drop out and just buy off the shelf later on.

    I am obviously biased of course, but with the Russians they can go for a combination of vehicles including tracked heavy and medium, as well as wheeled medium and wheeled light vehicles for a variety of environments and situations.... and they can use them as individual vehicles like tanks and BMPs, or they can adopt the whole family concept...
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:21 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Last year India announced that it wants to replace 1770 T-72 tanks and that it wants to start replacement in 2030.

    It's pretty clear that it's homegrown pile of crap Arjun is up to the job. And that project was a complete waste of time and money.

    India operates mainly T-72 and T-90. To which production rights given, as well as Indian own upgrades. So why they would even consider buy the leclerc tank is just completely stupid, not only is tank not up to the current level of the T-90 India are using, it's a completely different calibre, and maintenance and parts are not in common with T-72 and T-90. It makes sense to keep, parts, maintenance, training and calibre similar/the same. Indian back in 2019 placed order for over 400+ T-90 so the T-90 isn't going anywhere. They would be better in either upgrading the T-72 or building more T-90. However if they do want to replace the 1770 T-72 with a new generation of tank then the only option on the market is Armata, and I am sure Russia would allow production rights if they were going to replace the whole 1770 with Armata. Let me hope India sees sense and goes for Armata. As come 2030 leclerc no Matter what upgrades u put on it will be not be a tank of the future.

    https://www.firstpost.com/india/after-rafales-aukus-snubbed-france-likely-to-offer-its-leclerc-main-battle-tanks-to-india-10260481.html/amp
    India's tank fleet is both qualitatively and quantitatively head and shoulders above Pakistan, the only land power that India would have to fight with tanks. The latter is armed mostly with modified T-55 variants - its no contest at all. Modernizing their tank force is not a priority compared to preparing the army for a showdown above the Himalayas. For that you would need mountain-capable vehicles, which quite unfortunately is not that popular of a design trait with the only purpose built vehicles mostly made in China - and I doubt India would be willing to buy Chinese anytime soon.
    RTN
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    Post  RTN Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:49 pm

    lyle6 wrote:Modernizing their tank force is not a priority compared to preparing the army for a showdown above the Himalayas. For that you would need mountain-capable vehicles, which quite unfortunately is not that popular of a design trait with the only purpose built vehicles mostly made in China
    At those altitudes a war will have to be fought and won or lost by the Air Force. Army/Rocket artillery can only play a secondary role.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:38 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Last year India announced that it wants to replace 1770 T-72 tanks and that it wants to start replacement in 2030.

    It's pretty clear that it's homegrown pile of crap Arjun is up to the job. And that project was a complete waste of time and money.

    India operates mainly T-72 and T-90. To which production rights given, as well as Indian own upgrades. So why they would even consider buy the leclerc tank is just completely stupid, not only is tank not up to the current level of the T-90 India are using, it's a completely different calibre, and maintenance and parts are not in common with T-72 and T-90. It makes sense to keep, parts, maintenance, training and calibre similar/the same. Indian back in 2019 placed order for over 400+ T-90 so the T-90 isn't going anywhere. They would be better in either upgrading the T-72 or building more T-90. However if they do want to replace the 1770 T-72 with a new generation of tank then the only option on the market is Armata, and I am sure Russia would allow production rights if they were going to replace the whole 1770 with Armata. Let me hope India sees sense and goes for Armata. As come 2030 leclerc no Matter what upgrades u put on it will be not be a tank of the future.

    https://www.firstpost.com/india/after-rafales-aukus-snubbed-france-likely-to-offer-its-leclerc-main-battle-tanks-to-india-10260481.html/amp
    India's tank fleet is both qualitatively and quantitatively head and shoulders above Pakistan, the only land power that India would have to fight with tanks. The latter is armed mostly with modified T-55 variants - its no contest at all. Modernizing their tank force is not a priority compared to preparing the army for a showdown above the Himalayas. For that you would need mountain-capable vehicles, which quite unfortunately is not that popular of a design trait with the only purpose built vehicles mostly made in China - and I doubt India would be willing to buy Chinese anytime soon.

    Modernising tanks isn't priority for who? You? Maybe you forgot the part where Indian government wants to replace 1770 T-72 tanks. Their words not yours or mine.

    When you talk of T-55 copies which I presume you mean the Al Zarrar tank which is a heavy upgrade to the current standard and carries 125mm which is a notable upgrade to the old type 59/T-55, and it also has much better armour, a tank I would say couldnt be ignored. Pakistan also upgraded it's Type -85 including replacing the gun to 125mm make up around half of the force if u take into consideration of ongoing replacement. They have over 400 Al-Khalids tanks which are based on the Chinese Type 90 series of tanks, and building 50+ tanks every year to replace older tanks, they also have a fairly decent amount of T-80 tanks, and Chinese VT-4, and replacement is on going.

    I would say that India has clearly seen a need for replacement considering they have put their feelers out to various countries. I personally think either more T-90 to be produced with homegrown upgrades, or look for Armata production. I certainly wouldn't be looking at the leclerc.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:48 pm

    RTN wrote:
    lyle6 wrote:Modernizing their tank force is not a priority compared to preparing the army for a showdown above the Himalayas. For that you would need mountain-capable vehicles, which quite unfortunately is not that popular of a design trait with the only purpose built vehicles mostly made in China
    At those altitudes a war will have to be fought and won or lost by the Air Force. Army/Rocket artillery can only play a secondary role.

    T-80 gas turbine engine would be the go to tank if any. When I travelled the Pamir highway, our diesel 4x4 struggled with the altitude/lack of air, and guy had a petrol 4x4 which was slightly better but still struggled, at one point we went off the main highway and went over a higher pass and you could have walked faster than the 4x4. At around 15,000-16,000ft. I read that an exercise China did was held at around 4,000m (13,000ft roughly). Your right most aircraft and artillery/rockets would be mostly used. Armour would most likely be used in defensive methods, protecting important passes, and overlooking choke points.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:09 pm

    In 2050 this program will still exist.

    They will ask for local production of Leclerc with ToT for Arjun 3 or 4, they will pay and get nothing so they will order 50 of them and beg russians for a real contract. But europeans will offer their new euro MBT so indians will start a new program and after getting nothing out of it they will beg russians again for the t-14.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:22 pm

    Isos wrote:In 2050 this program will still exist.

    They will ask for local production of Leclerc with ToT for Arjun 3 or 4, they will pay and get nothing so they will order 50 of them and beg russians for a real contract. But europeans will offer their new euro MBT so indians will start a new program and after getting nothing out of it they will beg russians again for the t-14.

    Yeah, pretty much this.

    Indians never learn from their mistakes.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:23 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Modernising tanks isn't priority for who? You? Maybe you forgot the part where Indian government wants to replace 1770 T-72 tanks. Their words not yours or mine.

    When you talk of T-55 copies which I presume you mean the Al Zarrar tank which is a heavy upgrade to the current standard and carries 125mm which is a notable upgrade to the old type 59/T-55, and it also has much better armour, a tank I would say couldnt be ignored. Pakistan also upgraded it's Type -85 including replacing the gun to 125mm make up around half of the force if u take into consideration of ongoing replacement. They have over 400 Al-Khalids tanks which are based on the Chinese Type 90 series of tanks, and building 50+ tanks every year to replace older tanks, they also have a fairly decent amount of T-80 tanks, and Chinese VT-4, and replacement is on going.

    I would say that India has clearly seen a need for replacement considering they have put their feelers out to various countries. I personally think either more T-90 to be produced with homegrown upgrades, or look for Armata production. I certainly wouldn't be looking at the leclerc.
    If they are sensible it shouldn't be priority when there are lots of other things that are in much higher need of modernization and replacement - starting with their artillery park.

    Pakistan can deploy at best what, 1000 tanks with 125 mm guns, most of which are T-55 derivatives that a T-72 armed with training rounds could destroy. If they really need to reinforce the gap they could always just follow the T-72B3 route, save billions on taxpayer dollars for other purposes. Not even Pakistan's latest armor are competitive with the T-72B3.

    And India is always on the lookout for deals. Doesn't really mean anything when they are just window shopping.


    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:05 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Modernising tanks isn't priority for who? You? Maybe you forgot the part where Indian government wants to replace 1770 T-72 tanks. Their words not yours or mine.

    When you talk of T-55 copies which I presume you mean the Al Zarrar tank which is a heavy upgrade to the current standard and carries 125mm which is a notable upgrade to the old type 59/T-55, and it also has much better armour, a tank I would say couldnt be ignored. Pakistan also upgraded it's Type -85 including replacing the gun to 125mm make up around half of the force if u take into consideration of ongoing replacement. They have over 400 Al-Khalids tanks which are based on the Chinese Type 90 series of tanks, and building 50+ tanks every year to replace older tanks, they also have a fairly decent amount of T-80 tanks, and Chinese VT-4, and replacement is on going.

    I would say that India has clearly seen a need for replacement considering they have put their feelers out to various countries. I personally think either more T-90 to be produced with homegrown upgrades, or look for Armata production. I certainly wouldn't be looking at the leclerc.
    If they are sensible it shouldn't be priority when there are lots of other things that are in much higher need of modernization and replacement - starting with their artillery park.

    Pakistan can deploy at best what, 1000 tanks with 125 mm guns, most of which are T-55 derivatives that a T-72 armed with training rounds could destroy. If they really need to reinforce the gap they could always just follow the T-72B3 route, save billions on taxpayer dollars for other purposes. Not even Pakistan's latest armor are competitive with the T-72B3.

    And India is always on the lookout for deals. Doesn't really mean anything when they are just window shopping.



    Since when did India do anything sensible???

    Right and wrong Pakistan can field around 1200 125mm tanks of the T-55 copies, and a further 1100-1200 125mm of non t-55 copies making up that with T-80 (300+) and the rest made up of various Chinese and Al Khalids.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:52 am

    India’s state-owned Armoured Vehicles Nigam Ltd’s (AVANI) Avadi-based Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) will from next year begin undertaking deep upgrades of the Indian Army’s (IA) Russia-supplied T-90S MBTs.

    To date, 640 units have been procured from Russia (both as off-the-shelf units and those in semi-knocked-down condition, while another 600 have been built under licence, with the final tranche of 417 now being built (for equipping 10 Armoured Regiments).

    The uprated powerpack for the T-90S will be the A85-3AX-diesel engine capable of producing up to 1,500hp (although it is presently dowrated at 1,350hp) that will be ordered off-the-shelf from Russia’s Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant.

    Surprisingly, the Indian Army has not selected any APS, maybe because there is no place for APS-specific vectronics inside either the T-90S or T-72U. However, as a compensator, four optronic sensors or see-through-armour will be installed on the turrets of the T-90S & T-72U for enhancing all-round hemispheric situational awareness.



    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News - Page 10 T-90s_10


    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:27 pm

    Sujoy wrote:

    The uprated powerpack for the T-90S will be the A85-3AX-diesel engine capable of producing up to 1,500hp (although it is presently dowrated at 1,350hp) that will be ordered off-the-shelf from Russia’s Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant.


    That's the Armata powerpack. I'm not exactly sure if it could be made to fit within the classic T-90 hull so we might be looking at a lengthened hull akin to China's Type-99 MBT. A bit pricy either way.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:46 pm

    lyle6 wrote:That's the Armata powerpack. I'm not exactly sure if it could be made to fit within the classic T-90 hull so we might be looking at a lengthened hull akin to China's Type-99 MBT. A bit pricy either way.
    Me neither. But that's what the local media is suggesting.

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