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    European Defence Industries: News

    GarryB
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    European Defence Industries: News - Page 4 Empty Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:15 am

    The UK can't be the only ones making this type of drone.

    With a 15kg payload and considering the size and likely cost of it I would guess most other countries working on such things are waiting for batteries to get better and electric motors to get more efficient and more powerful and for composites to become a bit lighter and cheaper.

    Those new batteries the Russians are working on that can be used normally at minus 50 degrees C would be ideal for this sort of thing because I suspect a lot of payload capacity is sacrificed to carry batteries and to keep them warm at 70K ft operational heights so they hold their charge.

    Equally those new solar technologies that are spray on would be useful on clear composite materials for the upper wing surfaces to collect power but also reduce weight and probably drag.

    Purely an engineering exercise with no intention of becoming a product, a teaser of sorts,

    Could say that about all joint German/French projects couldn't you? Twisted Evil
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:51 pm

    Lockheed Martin and Rheinmetall are partnering to offer a European-made rocket launcher based on Lockheed’s High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) system to Germany and its neighbors.

    https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/06/23/lockheed-rheinmetall-pair-up-to-build-europe-made-rocket-launcher/
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:50 am

    AW149 latest generation Medium Multi-Role Military Helicopter. Special emphasis seems to be on survivability features. Drawing lessons from Ukraine, i suspect.

    European Defence Industries: News - Page 4 Helo10

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:15 pm

    Franco German EMBT

    120mm smoothbore

    Coaxial .50 cal

    30mm auto cannon

    7.62 MG

    APS

    The turret high is very low. The 2 hatches for the crew on the turret are really low, it is like the hatches are only a mean of scape but the crew is below the turret.
    I looks to me like they placed to crew very low so they have minimal exposition on the external part of the turret that way they can minimise the size of the turret.
    I think this is clever thinking, it looks like a hybrid between unmaned turrets and the traditional turret with autoloader.

    There will have to be A LOT of improvements made to the frontal hull armor for it to be a viable MBT in modern combat when APFSDS is hitting the realm of +900mm of penetration. The weight savings from using an unmanned turret will help in allowing more weight to be allocated to armor protection, but that turret still seems pretty beefy and full of heavy equipment, such as what seems to be a 25, 30, or 35mm autocannon RCWS mount.

    An open platform will allow the vehicle to be upgraded as new technology develops. Automatics target tracking and detection

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    lyle6
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    European Defence Industries: News - Page 4 Empty Franco German EMBT

    Post  lyle6 Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:31 pm

    A nice attempt but the MGCS program its supposed to headline for is dead. German and French requirements are just too incompatible and both sides intractable to compromise so its just going to end the way it has always been for projects between the German and French MICs: with the joint project cancelled and each side going their own way.

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    Sujoy
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    European Defence Industries: News - Page 4 Empty Germany's press briefing at IAV24 about how German thinking is influencing the next generation main battle tank for the MGCS project.

    Post  Sujoy Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:37 am

    Germany's press briefing at IAV24 about how German thinking is influencing the next generation main battle tank for the MGCS project. Potential features:

    1⃣ Weight reduction to 50 tonnes - more compact design
    2⃣ Mobility, mobility, mobility - high power to weight ratio
    3⃣ System of systems approach - common platform with different types including gun tank, missile launcher, and uncrewed air defence wingman
    4⃣ Likely to have a larger gun - 130 mm / 140 mm and capacity to fire NLOS ATGMs
    5⃣ Uncrewed turret
    6⃣ Three-person crew located in the hull
    7⃣ Integral APS / SHORAD capability
    8⃣ Hybrid electric drive with 1,800 hp
    9⃣ Passive and Reactive protection
    🔟 Front-mounted engine

    It seems, the Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) just like the Abrams X will follow T-14 configuration.

    European Defence Industries: News - Page 4 German10

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Wed Jan 24, 2024 4:00 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Germany's press briefing at IAV24 about how German thinking is influencing the next generation main battle tank for the MGCS project. Potential features:

    1⃣ Weight reduction to 50 tonnes  - more compact design
    2⃣ Mobility, mobility, mobility - high power to weight ratio
    3⃣ System of systems approach - common platform with different types including gun tank, missile launcher, and uncrewed air defence wingman
    4⃣ Likely to have a larger gun - 130 mm / 140 mm and capacity to fire NLOS ATGMs
    5⃣ Uncrewed turret
    6⃣ Three-person crew located in the hull
    7⃣ Integral APS / SHORAD capability
    8⃣ Hybrid electric drive with 1,800 hp
    9⃣ Passive and Reactive protection
    🔟 Front-mounted engine

    It seems, the Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) just like the Abrams X will follow T-14 configuration.



    1: That has never gone well outside of Russia.

    3: The idea of an unmanned AD vehicles is absurd, extremely unreliable at best and more likely a bigger threat to your own airpower than the enemy's.

    4: Unless those are gun launched that likely means less ammunition and armour, not a good idea.

    7: Integral SHORAD, this is not Battletech, you cannot fit that on a tank under 50 tons.

    8: Will it catch fire like their previous attempts?

    9: I am guessing they will skip the heavy ERA in favour of an overpriced APS system that will attract anti radiation missiles.

    10: Not impossible to do while retaining decent frontal armour, I doubt they will manage to.

    All in all more sci-fi nonsens and buzzwords, if put into metal it would likely result in an underarmoured mess with a big gun and no more than a few rounds to feed it.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:12 am

    Doesn't German thinking on tank design seem rather parallel to Russian tank design with the T-14?

    Should be flattering I suppose even if they wont admit it.

    They are essentially learning how to design a new tank from the Russians... but then the last war the Germans did learn how to make decent tanks from the Soviets then too.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:13 pm

    The 50 ton weight is hilarious. The 70 ton tracked discos from NATzO are no longer a fad after some reality percolated into the brains of some of the planners.

    I am waiting for an analogue of Bolton to chime in that "Russia stole precious NATO tank tech".



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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:15 am

    They can't even manufacture simple heavy caliber shells in the required amounts for modern warfare. And yet these clowns are talking about designing and manufacturing advanced MBTs... Razz

    Nice try, but these cheap PR stunts can only impress favelaos. Pull another one.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:39 pm

    This would be the first new tank the Germans have designed in 50 years. Expectations that the process will go smoothly... eh good luck with that.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:10 am

    Not just a new tank but a new everything is what they need... they will start in teams and then break up into smaller groups and then individual countries and end up making 5 or 6 different things with different parts and different support requirements that are not compatible... ask the Ukrainians.

    They will likely also want a 6th gen fighter if they get F-16s into combat and they don't last long...

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:26 pm

    Doesn't German thinking on tank design seem rather parallel to Russian tank design with the T-14?
    There will be at least one similarity: both will be runnig with microchips from German washing machines.
    lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:36 am

    There will be at least one similarity: both will be runnig with microchips from German washing machines.

    German washing machines made in the US of A because Germany wont be making anything soon...

    Imagine a new German leader that stands up for Germany, who is realistic to realise what Russia has done in the last almost 35 years... they went from a western occupied colony in the 1990s to an independent and free democracy... and they did it so quickly... and despite all western efforts to make them subservient and dependent.

    Imagine a European power with the balls to kick the Americans out of Europe... because they do more harm than good and only think of themselves.

    Better do it before some French guy does it and becomes the new Napoleon and does it first...

    Written any good books recently Hole? Twisted Evil

    You can say it is absurd but I am sure everyone would think the same when a certain book was written too.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:55 pm

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:10 am

    Interesting new British drone based on Turkish original.

    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed May 01, 2024 2:27 pm

    France-Italy: a rapprochement of defense industries
    Directorate: Ministry of the Armed Forces / Published on: April 30, 2024

    Monday April 29, the Minister of the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu and his Italian counterpart, Guido Crosetto, announced a strengthening of industrial cooperation between the two countries from Corsica. They also signed a letter of intent calling for the creation of a European industrial center for land defense.

    https://www.defense.gouv.fr/actualites/france-italie-rapprochement-industries-defense
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu May 02, 2024 9:53 pm

    France, Germany sign MGCS phase 1A agreement

    https://www.defense.gouv.fr/actualites/allemagne-signature-phase-1a-du-programme-char-du-futur

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:11 pm

    Surely this has to be the US or the UK or Japan or even in the EU? But no, its Turkey and probably Muslims to boot. 

    Oh how the glory days have passed.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:56 pm

    https://www.analisidifesa.it/2024/06/il-programma-europeo-esoca-per-un-sostituto-degli-antonov-an-124-ucraini/

    The European ESOCA program for a replacement for the Ukrainian Antonov An-124
    June 26, 2024
    Maurizio Sparacino


    The European Commission has launched the Esoca program

    https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/document/download/cc98a1de-a7d4-481c-b6e8-0e565d491d1c_en?filename=EDF-2023-RA-PROTMOB-SATOC%20ESOCA.pdf

    ("European eco-System for Outsized Cargo Airlift", in Italian "eco-sistema europeo per un aereo da trasporto strategico"), allocating for its implementation a first tranche of 20 million euros from European Defense Fund.

    The project clearly envisages the creation of a large military transport aircraft with the first phase of the program dedicated to R&D (Research and Development) which should take a year and a half to complete.

    According to the official parameters contained in the program, strategic airlift capabilities are needed to quickly and efficiently move large numbers of personnel, heavy equipment and large cargoes to meet the military needs of European and allied countries, and therefore the possibility of strategic airlift to ensure operational projection over long distances around the world.

    Europe is therefore looking for its own alternative to the Ukrainian Antonov An-124s on which it depends (until a few years ago also the Russian ones considering that the Volga Dnepr operator carried out flights for the NATO consortium "Ruslan Salis" which employed them above all to transfer material to Iraq, Afghanistan and Africa until in 2018, following the tightening of sanctions against Russia, he decided to no longer renew the contract with the Atlantic Alliance ).

    Among the countries penalized by this dependence we certainly remember first and foremost France which has constantly benefited from the An-124s of the two main operators (Antonov Airlines and Volga Dnepr) in recent years, especially for the transfer of vehicles and material to its contingents located in Africa.

    As if that wasn't enough, the An-124 remains the largest operational transport aircraft since the gigantic An-225 was destroyed at the beginning of the war between Moscow and Kiev .

    It seems clear that the EU is forced to look for a way out of the impasse it finds itself in: turning to Russian operators after the attack on Ukraine is practically impossible, while Kiev in any case will not be able to maintain its position for much longer. airworthiness of its fleet of An-124s and as is known at present there is no service provider in the world that has sufficient capacity to meet the needs of EU Member States.

    Companies from Italy, France, Germany, France, Spain, Greece, the Netherlands, Poland and Finland will participate in the new project and apparently, the main drivers of the program will be Airbus and Leonardo.

    All in contradiction with European aid to Kiev's defense industry which concerns various sectors (primarily that of drones) but to the exclusion, needless to say, of the company par excellence that creates transport planes and who would have the most substantial experience to carry out a similar project, i.e. JSC Antonov .

    Despite the nice words, it seems that no Western political and industrial protagonist really intends to help this large company in increasingly obvious difficulties . On the contrary, the impression is that in the West they want to encourage its crisis and exit from the market.

    Ukrainian Antonov is dead, so they cannot hope for anything from them. They do not have anymore manufacturing capabilities, and all their previous work needed Russia anyway.

    Everything decent that they had concerning design has already been given to China instead, and there are no more capabilities in Ukraine to design any new aircraft (but it is true that in the recent past Antonov engineers were responsible for a very large part of the Chinese Y-20 project design).

    On the other hand, Russia instead is perfectly able to keep its An-124 airworthy and soon will be able to build more.

    Concerning this ESOCA program, it is strange that the Spanish ITP (engine subcontractor) and French  Safran engines (formerly called Snecma) are involved, but not Rolls Royce, which is the only one with experience in big engines.

    I know that Rolls Royce is UK based, but they have also branches in EU.

    Anyway, this program is only for preliminary design of a strategic airlifter. If the program is at least as complex as the one for the A400m we could see the first flight prototype around 2038.

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    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:11 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Concerning this ESOCA program, it is strange that the Spanish ITP (engine subcontractor) and French  Safran engines (formerly called Snecma) are involved, but not Rolls Royce, which is the only one with experience in big engines.
    I know that Rolls Royce is UK based, but they have also branches in EU.
    Rolls Royce is in a country which left the EU. So so much for that. This is an EU funded program.
    The UK also operates the C-17 Globemaster III. So they wouldn't be buying the aircraft anyway.

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Anyway, this program is only for preliminary design of a strategic airlifter. If the program is at least as complex as the one for the A400m we could see the first flight prototype around 2038.
    You can pretty much bet it will be if they have to design their own engine. This isn't a bad thing though since any research made here could apply to the Airbus civilian airliners.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jul 08, 2024 2:28 pm

    Analisi difesa posted an additional article concerning the
    ESOCA airlifter program, adding some reply from Ukraine.

    I am just reporting for curiosity, it is obvious that nothing will be able to be done with the ukrainian Antonov.

    Actually the idea would not have been absurd, since Airbus already build the parts for their aircrafts in many countries (and the airbus aircrafts wings are made in Bristol, England, even if the UK left the European Union).

    At the end this is mostly what Russia is going to do, i.e. modernising the An-124 with new modern avionics and new engines, transfer design and technological documentation from paper to digital and replace some old soviet internal systems with new more modern (Russian) ones.

    The interesting point, and here Kiva is right, is that even him completed ignored the french engine manufacturer Laughing (Safran Engines (previously called Snecma)).

    They do not have experience with large engines and they do not produce any high bypass turbofan alone (for the CFM56 and Leap GE is responsible for more than half of the engine and in the SaM146 of the SJ100 most issues were due to the French half of the engine.
    They make decent engines for small to medium helicopters, however.


    https://www.analisidifesa.it/2024/07/programma-europeo-esoca-le-reazioni-in-ucraina-allarticolo-di-analisi-difesa/

    European ESOCA programme: reactions in Ukraine to the Defense Analysis article
    6 July 2024 by Maurizio Sparacino


    The recent Defense Analysis article has awakened Ukrainian minds regarding the clear decision of the European Union not to involve the Antonov aeronautical company in the ESOCA program (European eco-System for Outsized Cargo Airlift), a multinational project which should lead to the creation of a new heavy transport aircraft.

    Despite the moment in which the EU partners support Ukraine in the war, the ESOCA program which aims to replace the large Antonov An-124 freighters, paradoxically does not include the involvement of the JSC Antonov, a Bureau founded in the USSR in 1946 and constantly engaged since then in the development and construction of transport aircraft exported to every corner of the globe and holders of aeronautical records that have still never been broken.

    After complaints expressed on the Ukrainian aviation portal Krila, the former president and general designer of Antonov, Dmytro Kiva, addressed an open letter to the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky, warning against the risk that the company and Ukraine they lose the ability to produce transport aircraft.

    «European countries have announced the launch of the ESOCA program for the creation of a heavy transport aircraft to replace the An-124-100. This program involves an analysis of the possibilities of creating a heavy transport aircraft requested by the EU (without the participation of Ukraine) to replace the An-124, the number of which has significantly reduced over time."

    «At the same time, as a long-standing developer and manufacturer of transport and military aircraft, Antonov has successful experience in creating a large number of types of transport aircraft.

    The An-124-100 – continues Kiva – was intended to replace imports (Russian editor's note) with European and Western materials, equipment, engines and other components. The designers determined that the updated aircraft would have a significant advantage over the existing aircraft in terms of technical and economic characteristics (cargo range, fuel consumption, empty weight, etc.). In particular, thanks to the use of European-made materials, components, engines and equipment, the updated An-124 can have a maximum take-off weight of 450 tons with a maximum payload of 170 tons.»

    Kiva therefore proposed the following steps to participate in the program with the European Union for the creation of a heavy transport aircraft with equal involvement of Western and Ukrainian countries:

    – The basic aerodynamics and layout of the aircraft should be based on the An-124-100.

    – The engines should be British Rolls Roys or American General Electrics.

    – Install a modern “glasscockpit” cockpit with navigation equipment for the pilot (Thales, Honeywell).

    – Replace some equipment and systems with European and Western ones. Transfer design and technological documentation from paper to digital.

    – The 28 meter long pressed wing panels must be replaced with European-made structures.

    – Work on new modernized aircraft should be carried out by Airbus, Antonov and other European companies.

    – The wings of the plane should be produced in the UK, parts of the fuselage in Germany, parts of the units at Antonov and final assembly in France.

    – The development of this updated aircraft will take 4-5 years and will cost approximately $3 billion.

    In general, the development of a new European aircraft of this class will cost at least 10 billion dollars and take 8-10 years.

    The focal point of Dmytro Kiva's request (in the photo alongside), as reiterated for years by the Defense Analysis dossiers on Antonov published in 2014, 2016, 2019 and 2021, is the fact that since 2015 the Ukrainian company has not developed or mass-produced only one aircraft, losing opportunities, according to existing contracts with European and non-European partners.

    Such a European project would tend to exclude, not even so subtly, the dependence of the European and NATO Armed Forces on the use of Ukrainian Antonov An-124s.

    A step that could cost dearly to the already too precarious future of the historic aeronautical company.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:16 am

    So their new partners and best buddies... the west have decided they need a new heavy transport plane and they want to essentially replace all the Russian and Ukrainian components of the aircraft with European and western components and cut Ukraine completely out of the programme.

    Wouldn't it be funny if when this conflict ends the Europeans go cap in hand to Russia for the already digitised plans for the aircraft.... the main protagonists wont ask of course... UK, US, France, Germany, Poland etc, but they might send Hungary or the Maldives.

    All the more reason for Russia to make their own plane designs and move away from Antonovs... like everyone else will be doing...

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:58 am


    Mostly disappointing offerings with one exception. I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you choose an unmanned turret but adopt a bustle conveyor autoloader to stow the ready rounds - what's the point? You're not really saving armor mass as the turret still needs to be protected at the level of the crew at the hull and if you have to stretch the armor mass budget between the turret and the hull you just went back to square 1.

    Sole exception on the EMBT ADT 140. The only MBT that understood the assignment with an in-hull carousel autoloader a la T-14.

    Another interesting tidbit is the return of bicaliber guns. With a quick barrel change the Ascalon should be able to shoot either 140 or 120 mm caliber rounds. Personally I think the 2A82 approach of retain the same caliber but with expanded chamber for select ammo types is superior but that's just me.

    Also it seems like RCWS are indeed evolving into mini-CIWS. This is crucial, because as we've seen in Ukraine armored columns are not accompanied by any lightly-armored AD units at all. In fact the only umbrella of AD that even covers these pushes come almost solely from hidden medium ranged SAMs that ambush low flying aviation from a few kilometers behind the frontlines. For armor to stay relevant against UAVs they need effective self-defense measures beyond intercepting the enemy munitions.

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