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    T-62s in Russian Army

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:00 am

    Nice.

    One should not underestimate the fire power of a direct fire 100mm gun... it is a very potent tool on a battlefield... and having it mounted on something as mobile as a T-62 with armour protection making you safe from small arms and fragments and a wide range of other threats on the battlefield and it is very useful.

    As mentioned it offers better infantry support than any BTR.

    BTW nice information on those BDD kits... a simple way to boost the protection of a vehicle without the added weight of solid metal but often better effective added protection than solid metal would add.

    I would suggest that ERA on the outside could make it even more effective without adding too much weight or cost... this is actually the basis for many new generation armour concepts where you have base armour (T-62) plus add on composite armour (BDD) and also dynamic active armour (NERA) with EW EO systems like Shtora and also active protection as well... say ARENA-M, and you get a medium weight tank that is rather well protected for its cost and size.

    On a modern battlefield such a vehicle could observe an enemy position from a distance and assist an infantry advance by providing devastating direct fire but also call air power and artillery while lasing targets or simply machine gunning positions.

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    Post  Hole Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:04 am

    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Jntgmi10
    TOW operators don´t like this.  No
    Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:07 am

    Well, now they shouldn't care much, as the newest TOWS might possibly finally get the penetration levels of the Soviet missiles from the 70s Laughing
    But in the 80s ... that would surprise them Laughing Laughing

    By the way, my buddy owned the T-55AM2 once Laughing Laughing
    It was hell of a fun to ride, but not cheap Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:54 pm

    What was it like to park?

    Any speeding tickets?

    When I first read that comment about TOW operators not liking BDD I thought that actually the opposite would be true, but then I realised you weren't talking about Tow truck operators who would appreciate a lighter tank to drag around the place and meant the operators of TOW missiles.

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    Post  franco Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:37 am

    Nobody talked about the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks: how an elephant was blown up from a telegram post

    You know, there is such a well-aimed saying in Russian: “I hear a ringing, but I don’t know where it is.” It should be noted that it very clearly characterizes the current media and bloggers who are chasing this very information, often simply copying it from each other. For example, we can take from nowhere the news that the T-90M is equipped with a cannon from the "Armata" - we have already analyzed this in detail here . And now a new trend has begun: "Russia is modernizing 800 T-62 tanks. " In fact, these are the next ideas that flooded the network. However, as well as rumors that the tank modernization project was being developed in an emergency mode due to a special operation.

    800 units are not only T-62

    Unlike the reports about the Armata cannon on the T-90M, the source of the news about the horde of 800 modernized T-62 tanks is quite obvious. This is the official telegram channel of State Duma deputy Andrey Gurulyov. It is noteworthy that the post in the "cart" did not carry any lies - everything is told and shown as it is. This was already figured out.

    Recently, the 103rd armored repair plant, located in the Trans-Baikal Territory, received a very large order for the repair and modernization of armored vehicles, in which the number really appeared - 800 units, but not only T-62s. Gurulyov, as a former deputy chairman of the government of the Trans-Baikal Territory, and part-time also a general, decided, as they say, to figure out on the spot what the plant and its employees lack, how to help, and so on. Well, of course, he went there. After that, a post appeared in his channel.

    It features two videos in which T-62M towers and hulls flash by, and the deputy himself talks with factory workers about problems and losses of equipment, and also, in particular, notes positive reviews about these tanks from the fronts of the NVO and calls, as they say, to tighten up and "give the country coal." But there is also a text, which, apparently, they seized on.

    Gurulev's original text

    Let's quote the main part:
    “... The enterprise works in two shifts, it is ready to work in three, we need help in this, it will not work out otherwise, there is a lot of work. Today, the entire industry is mobilized, because the plant cannot work alone - we need suppliers who supply spare parts, this comes from all over Russia. Tanks are not just being repaired, but modernized. The same T-62s will be equipped with modern thermal imagers, night sights, protection, hinged armor, protection against javelins, aft protection against grenade launchers will be fundamentally enhanced. With a modernized machine, it will be possible to adequately show themselves on the battlefield, because we still have to fight for a long time ... "

    That is, as we can see, Gurulev says that the armored vehicles arriving at the plant will not only be repaired, which is quite logical if we are talking about re-mothballing, but also modernized. As an example of modernization, he cites the same T-62s. There is no information that all 800 cars will be “sixty-twos”, no. They were simply singled out by the deputy from the total mass of tanks and other equipment as an example of the fact that the plant not only repairs equipment, but also improves its combat characteristics.

    They correctly understood this information, for example, in the Kommersant newspaper:

    "... The State Duma deputy of the Russian Federation did not specify which models of tanks were being repaired, mentioning only the T-62, which will be retrofitted with "modern thermal imagers, night sights", as well as enhanced protection - "mounted armor against javelins."

    Rossiyskaya Gazeta, which is the official mouthpiece of the Russian government, reacted a little more extensively, but in the right style. They did not talk about almost a thousand modernized T-62s, but they considered in great detail (within the framework of the publication format) a possible option for refining these machines.

    Well, then ... Then we know what happened. For example, you can take ANNA-News:

    “Deputy of the State Duma Andrei Gurulev visited the 103rd armored repair plant in the Trans-Baikal Territory. He said that the enterprise would have to return 800 T-62 tanks to the Russian army from military equipment storage bases.

    The deputy Gurulev also said that the 103rd armored plant located in Atamanovka near Chita was loaded with orders for three years. It is during this period that these 800 T-62 tanks should return to service. He explained the need for their return to service by large losses in equipment in the initial period of a special military operation in Ukraine ... "

    But in fact, " Russia is modernizing 800 T-62 tanks " is an even more or less mild wording of some headlines. Otherwise, their tone changes from a sharply decadent mood and ending with ridicule in the style of "all the tanks lost." But it is worth paying tribute: the majority of the media refrained from this topic, which, of course, is correct. But, having driven in the corresponding request in the same Yandex, you can find a lot of posts of a similar plan.

    Indeed, one of the main specializations of the 103rd BTRZ is the repair of the T-62. The company has owned this technology since Soviet times. It is logical that they will be modernized there. However, in addition to these tanks, the company is able to master bringing into combat condition other vehicles, including, for example, tanks of the T-72 type and light armored vehicles. There is no doubt that there are T-62s in the order for 800 units, but their share in this number is by no means one hundred percent - it's just the total amount of equipment, work on which was laid down 3 years in advance. And you can't find anything else in any official source.

    The very same modernization of the T-62 did not arise from scratch, but the reason for its initial appearance is far from being a special operation.

    Was the T-62 modernization project designed exclusively for the NWO?

    First of all, you need to understand that the T-62s have been in the mobilization reserve for almost 11 years, that is, no one sent them to eternal parking. These tanks, mostly located in storage bases in the eastern part of the country, are still maintained in more or less good technical condition. Not all, of course, but a significant amount. For this, the production of new 115-mm cannon barrels was even launched, about which UralVagonZavod reported more than three years ago. There were also references to the production of shells, but information on this matter is now deaf.

    And since there are tanks, projects for their modernization will also be proposed. The enterprise that implements it will receive funding, and the machines, if they are not going to be written off, will improve their combat effectiveness.

    The 103rd Armored Repair Plant was no exception. The T-62M modernization project, which they are now trying to pass off as created in an emergency mode and designed literally on the knee because of a special operation, actually appeared at exhibitions long before it.

    For example, one of the last mentions of a modernized tank from the 103rd BTRZ was in the fall of 2021, when the tank was shown at one of the shows. There is also a mast with a multispectral module in the form of a thermal imager, a near-range IR camera and a laser rangefinder, there is also dynamic protection, and a thermal imaging sight-rangefinder at the gunner. Everything is in the best traditions of any tank factory in any country: to exhibit your new product in the “expensive-rich” style, and then bargain with the customer – it is always profitable to start from the top price ceiling.

    As a result, as we can see, the order was nevertheless issued, which to a large extent contributed to the SVO. So far, not a single serial machine of this type has been noticed, but we can say with confidence that the project will be significantly changed. Most likely, they will abandon the mast with a multispectral module - too expensive. In addition to the rest, they will put a “visor” on the roof from the Javelins and equip the frontal projections of the tank with dynamic protection.

    Conclusions

    There is absolutely no open and reliable information about how many modernized T-62Ms are planned for release. There may be ten units, maybe a hundred, or maybe all two hundred - no one talked about it. But to think out too much and bring this number to eight hundred, it turned out for many. However, as with the modernization project itself, which was allegedly created solely because of a special military operation in Ukraine.

    Such dubious news cannot carry anything but unjustified negativity. For some, this is a reason to gloat, they say, Russia has already lost all the equipment, they will soon remember the T-34. For others, it is a cause for indignation.

    But there is still a fly in the ointment in this situation. All sorts of positive reviews about the T-62M in the special operation zone are a wagon and a small cart, but in fact the car is already rather outdated. Yes, the modernization, which includes the installation of thermal imaging sights, dynamic protection and other elements, will take the tank to a new level.

    However, we have a sufficient number of T-72s at the storage bases, and there are also T-80s. They are revived and put into operation, which, by the way, the 103rd BTRZ will also do. And just thermal imagers and other means would suit them more than the “sixty-two”. We hope that the Ministry of Defense will pay attention to this situation. We need tanks, and it's not just about SVO. Tanks are needed, not the reports of small-town bloggers that metal shells do not burn, and the absence of an automatic loader guarantees the absence of breakdowns.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/203730-o-modernizacii-800-tankov-t-62-nikto-ne-govoril-kak-iz-posta-v-telegram-razduli-slona.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  lancelot Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:38 pm

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583796679102599171

    "Krasny Yar training ground, during the training of mobilized reservists, the first modernized T-62M tanks with new gunner's thermal imaging sights were installed."

    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Image22

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:15 am

    franco wrote:Nobody talked about the modernization of 800 T-62 tanks: how an elephant was blown up from a telegram post

    Well, they did in the provided material, so this is not a nothing burger.
    And that was said that they have already DID modernize them rather than will be, at least if my memory is not fooling me.
    62Ms are being vastly used for years, including shipping them in numbers to Syria.
    On the film made in the repair plant, we can easily count a dozen of decomposed tanks at different stages of repair/upgrade.
    Nothing was wrong with the "800" number from the presented perspective.
    Maybe the guy was on hurra's optimism scenario, still, nobody had a point to deny it.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:24 pm

    lancelot wrote:

    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Image22

    This appears to be a regular T-62M with it's original sight and downgraded armour. It must be the wrong image.

    The original T-62M for comparrisonT-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Og_og_1453353327255488656

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:39 pm

    If you Ask me, it is not 62M at all, but vanilla 62 pimped up. Lacks the laser emitter for Bastion. Some pieces in that famous repair plant were such, with provisional mountings for ERA blocks welded to the plain armor. Optional, the laser channel is combined with the maine sight... But that would overcomplicate the whole job.
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    Post  TMA1 Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:28 pm

    Does anyone know if the 3bm-28 is indeed the best apfsds for the t-62 tank? People say it was the last soviet design made. Did Russia ever develop a newer apfsds for the 115mm cannon?
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:48 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    This appears to be a regular T-62M with it's original sight and downgraded armour. It must be the wrong image.
    I wouldn't call it a downgrade. ERA is the more effective and efficient applique. Weighs less, is more effective on a pound-for-pound basis and has a more complete coverage than BDD. Of course the best approach is to have ERA on top of the BDD for maximum protection still.

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    Post  limb Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:18 am

    lyle6 wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    This appears to be a regular T-62M with it's original sight and downgraded armour. It must be the wrong image.
    I wouldn't call it a downgrade. ERA is the more effective and efficient applique. Weighs less, is more effective on a pound-for-pound basis and has a more complete coverage than BDD. Of course the best approach is to have ERA on top of the BDD for maximum protection still.

    Kontakt 1 is thoroughly obsolete. It needs at least relikt.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:45 am

    lyle6 wrote:
    I wouldn't call it a downgrade. ERA is the more effective and efficient applique. Weighs less, is more effective on a pound-for-pound basis and has a more complete coverage than BDD. Of course the best approach is to have ERA on top of the BDD for maximum protection still.

    I dare to dispute.
    It is Kontakt of the 1st gen applied.
    It has perfectly zero influence for kinetic protection and MAYBE adds some 200-250 mm against the chemical one.
    BDD is much more efficient than that, yet sure heavier - that is why 62M gets a boosted engine.
    That adds one more point to the opinion that we see a vanilla 62s, just improved a bit with the Kontakt blocks, while BDD is not available in numbers, and would require an increase in the power of the engine.

    TMA1 wrote:Does anyone know if the 3bm-28 is indeed the best apfsds for the t-62 tank? People say it was the last soviet design made. Did Russia ever develop a newer apfsds for the 115mm cannon?

    Not only Russia.
    Some other projectiles have been designed for commercial purposes, even by the Israelis.
    Belgian MECAR offers a piece with much improved characteristics.
    Russkie have at least one more modern projectile from the end of the 80s, and a rumored one coming in line when 62s proved still potent in Chechenya.
    This is really effective gun system.

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    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:39 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    I dare to dispute.
    It is Kontakt of the 1st gen applied.
    It has perfectly zero influence for kinetic protection and MAYBE adds some 200-250 mm against the chemical one.
    BDD is much more efficient than that, yet sure heavier - that is why 62M gets a boosted engine.
    That adds one more point to the opinion that we see a vanilla 62s, just improved a bit with the Kontakt blocks, while BDD is not available in numbers, and would require an increase in the power of the engine.

    Except why would you need KE protection? The possibility these tanks would encounter armor and get shot at with APFSDS arrows would be rather rare by the time these tanks arrive in Ukraine and given the nature of their use as fire support vehicles against fortifications. The vast majority of the time its going to be attacked with single charge RPGs for which the Kontakt-1 is perfectly fine.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:41 pm

    Sure, yet BDD is still more potent than Kontakt-1.
    That wouldn't make much sense in the case of 62Ms.
    But not 62s.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:37 am

    It is Kontakt of the 1st gen applied.
    It has perfectly zero influence for kinetic protection and MAYBE adds some 200-250 mm against the chemical one.

    In context I would suggest the vast majority of threats to these vehicles wont be pure kinetic rounds and HEAT rounds being the normal threat... actually putting ERA blocks on the outside of cage armour used to store extra equipment for the crew would add HEAT protection and essentially add spaced armour and extra storage space which would provide extra capacity to defend against HEAT threats at little extra weight that would therefore not require more engine power.

    BDD is much more efficient than that, yet sure heavier - that is why 62M gets a boosted engine.

    I would say the question of BDD or not BDD is whether they want to spend money upgrading the engine, but if they do then BDD plus ERA would be a good combination against HEAT rounds that are the main threat to such a vehicle most of the time.

    Sure, yet BDD is still more potent than Kontakt-1.
    That wouldn't make much sense in the case of 62Ms.
    But not 62s.

    Surely both would be the best solution. The BDD option means new engine so if you are spending on a new engine old ERA should not break the bank yet adds a further layer of protection for the vehicle.

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    Post  Sujoy Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:In context I would suggest the vast majority of threats to these vehicles wont be pure kinetic rounds and HEAT rounds being the normal threat... .
    Could be APFSDS as well. Even an APS cannot stop a APFSDS round.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:22 am

    Could be APFSDS as well. Even an APS cannot stop a APFSDS round.

    These vehicles are for militia or rear area troops and not for front line use for invasion or assaults on enemy positions so the likelyhood of enemy armour operating in Russian rear areas is pretty low so the chance of APFSDS threats to this tank are very very low... most will be ambush and terrorist groups with ATGMs and rockets... a tank would be too difficult to keep running because they burn too much fuel behind enemy lines.

    The APS for Armata can stop APFSDS rounds, and the old ERA only effected HEAT rounds but the newer ERA reduces the penetration of HEAT and APFSDS rounds too.

    In fact if enemy APFSDS becomes a threat newer ERA could be used, which together with BDD armour might be good enough over medium ranges to stop enemy APFSDS rounds... especially 105mm ones.

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:44 am

    If you ask me, those tanks will be used the same way the Israelis used Magachs - as mobile strongpoints.
    Gaza was full of that. You place a tank on the crossroads, build a wall of sandbags around it, and you have a bunker in two hours. And can relocate it in another 2h if needed.

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    Post  Sujoy Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:53 am

    GarryB wrote: In context I would suggest the vast majority of threats to these vehicles wont be pure kinetic rounds and HEAT rounds being the normal threat.
    All these ‘ fire and forget’ ATGMs with seeker tech have a critical tech drawback. The seeker head has to be cooled before locking onto a target and then launched. During war this means a time delay which is a major disadvantage. Please don't go by what company brouchers say.
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:54 am

    GarryB wrote:The APS for Armata can stop APFSDS rounds, and the old ERA only effected HEAT rounds but the newer ERA reduces the penetration of HEAT and APFSDS rounds too.
    That would be speculation. Hard kill APS rarely have more than 2-4 rounds available on each aspect.

    When you look at projectile APS, most have 2-4 rounds (either ready rounds like an Iron Fist, or reloads like a Trophy). There are some exceptions, QuickKill had 8+ but that single pod covered all aspects, versus 2 or 3 per aspect on more traditional systems. So, 2-4 is the norm.


    APS adds tremendous weight to the Tank. Therefore, you have to counterbalance the APS with yet more weight and space claim.

    Even if everything works perfectly, when an APS defeats an ATGM or RPG, a large volume of fragmentation and debris is projected over the vehicle.

    That frag cloud will wash over the vehicle as that was the path of the projectile and will impact exposed systems. APS is not a behind armour system, it is located on the surface of the vehicle and even the wiring is typically in exposed conduits on the surface. Things like radars and EO sensors cannot be readily armoured, and the mechanisms of the effector turrets similarly are vulnerable to damage.

    That is why we should see some sort of ABM/Frag/HE secondary armament for the next Generation of tanks. Something to soften the target up before hitting it with the KE or maybe ATGM.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:15 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    That would be speculation. Hard kill APS rarely have more than 2-4 rounds available on each aspect.

    When you look at projectile APS, most have 2-4 rounds (either ready rounds like an Iron Fist, or reloads like a Trophy). There are some exceptions, QuickKill had 8+ but that single pod covered all aspects, versus 2 or 3 per aspect on more traditional systems. So, 2-4 is the norm.
    That's because a hard kill APS only really needs to spoil the surprise first shot of the ambush. The APS takes the initiative and gives it to the defender who can now return accurate fire with a loaded gun, deploy smokescreens, reorient to better receive hits and or relocate to a more favorable position.

    Sujoy wrote:
    APS adds tremendous weight to the Tank. Therefore, you have to counterbalance the APS with yet more weight and space claim.
    Arena with the massive tower antenna tips the scales at 1100 kg. Pretty hefty, but nothing compared to the dead weight of armor to supply the same level of protection at a fraction of the coverage. The Afghanit should be even lighter and more compact with more modern electronics.

    Sujoy wrote:
    Even if everything works perfectly, when an APS defeats an ATGM or RPG, a large volume of fragmentation and debris is projected over the vehicle.

    That frag cloud will wash over the vehicle as that was the path of the projectile and will impact exposed systems. APS is not a behind armour system, it is located on the surface of the vehicle and even the wiring is typically in exposed conduits on the surface. Things like radars and EO sensors cannot be readily armoured, and the mechanisms of the effector turrets similarly are vulnerable to damage.

    That is why we should see some sort of ABM/Frag/HE secondary armament for the next Generation of tanks. Something to soften the target up before hitting it with the KE or maybe ATGM.
    Probably one of the reasons why everyone is suddenly packing programmable fragmentation shells. Instead of opening with the subcaliber shot in an armored duel either side would seek to blind each other's sensors first with fragmentation shells before switching to subcaliber to kill.

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    Post  RTN Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:56 pm

    Abrams uses sponsons, but places forward radars on the front of the sponson rather than the turret face. AbramsX had a similar approach, though instead of a sponson the side extensions were more blended into the turret structure.

    AbramsX is an exception as it has 3 effectors, allowing greater multi-threat capability for saturation attacks, faster response that does not require turret slew and could allow 3rd effector at rear to be configured to provide dedicated top attack protection.
    GarryB
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    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: T-62s in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:18 am

    All these ‘ fire and forget’ ATGMs with seeker tech have a critical tech drawback. The seeker head has to be cooled before locking onto a target and then launched. During war this means a time delay which is a major disadvantage. Please don't go by what company brouchers say.

    Modern third gen uncooled thermal imagers don't need any cooling down time at all and have sensors more like the light sensitive CCD chip like in a video or digital camera.

    IR guided AAMs needed cooling too but that didn't prevent them from being used in dogfights.

    Russian ATGMs mostly have thermal imagers for finding targets but the missiles themselves are either command guided or laser beam riding or wire guided.

    For something like Javelin it is a problem because spotting and identifying a tank from anything else including tanks taken out years before sitting on the battlefield is a real problem.

    Even during tests they had to use electric heaters to heat up the tank targets before the missiles started hitting them... and of course running the engine is not going to heat the whole tank up... just the exhaust bits and engine deck, which could easily be obscured by slat armour or nakidka camouflage.

    Meaning the super expensive Javelin has to be manually aimed for a direct fire engagement with only a 750mm penetration performance... slat armour and ERA would likely reduce that to being useless even against upgraded T-62s.

    Hard kill APS rarely have more than 2-4 rounds available on each aspect.

    In the case of a Russian attack it is more likely that the Russian guns will outnumber the nazi guns so that should be plenty.

    When you look at projectile APS, most have 2-4 rounds (either ready rounds like an Iron Fist, or reloads like a Trophy). There are some exceptions, QuickKill had 8+ but that single pod covered all aspects, versus 2 or 3 per aspect on more traditional systems. So, 2-4 is the norm.

    You talk about APS systems but don't mention any Russian or Soviet systems... does that work with everything?

    For instance do those western APS systems operate on tanks also fitted with ERA that effects APFSDS rounds too?

    APS adds tremendous weight to the Tank.

    The exact opposite is true... to get a similar level of protection in the frontal arc only you would need to add 20-30 tons of armour to a tank which would still be horribly vulnerable from the sides and rear and top and belly.

    APS is like ERA and makes the tanks protection level equivalent or better to a much much much heavier tank.

    Even if everything works perfectly, when an APS defeats an ATGM or RPG, a large volume of fragmentation and debris is projected over the vehicle.

    Sounds like a response from a western company that does not make APS systems and just wants western aligned countries to buy tanks with heavier actual armour instead of equipment and systems that make the tank lighter yet well protected too.

    That frag cloud will wash over the vehicle as that was the path of the projectile and will impact exposed systems.

    What exposed systems?

    An APS system doesn't operate in a vaccuum... you could very easily connect it to all your optics systems to shut their protective shields when the APS launches a munition.

    Getting scratched paint is not an issue.

    APS is not a behind armour system, it is located on the surface of the vehicle and even the wiring is typically in exposed conduits on the surface.

    It would not be hard to protect any external wiring from fragments, and newer models can be wireless...

    Things like radars and EO sensors cannot be readily armoured, and the mechanisms of the effector turrets similarly are vulnerable to damage.

    HEAT rounds have pathetic fragmentation performance... effectively they try to concentrate the entire forward hemisphere of explosion into one focused beam, which makes fragmentation damage a non issue.

    Even a clean hit on armour will have one small thumb sized penetration cavity and the armour around the point of impact some discolouration from the blast... but no other actual damage.


    That is why we should see some sort of ABM/Frag/HE secondary armament for the next Generation of tanks.

    That would be brilliant, because that means less penetration which makes Russian tanks even safer...

    Something to soften the target up before hitting it with the KE or maybe ATGM.

    If you have to hit an enemy tank multiple times to destroy is APS system then you are on a hiding to nothing because when they fire back you are dead... so all your surprise attack might have achieved is using up one APS munition...

    Probably one of the reasons why everyone is suddenly packing programmable fragmentation shells. Instead of opening with the subcaliber shot in an armored duel either side would seek to blind each other's sensors first with fragmentation shells before switching to subcaliber to kill.

    Which suggests new APS systems are immensely valuable, especially if their components can be duplicated or protected.

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    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: T-62s in Russian Army

    Post  jhelb Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:43 am

    GarryB wrote:Which suggests new APS systems are immensely valuable, especially if their components can be duplicated or protected.
    RPG-30 has already proved it is not.

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    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: T-62s in Russian Army

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