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    T-62s in Russian Army

    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:36 pm

    Meet the Griffin II, America's future light tank:
    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 7 US-Armys-new-light-tank-and-latest-FCS-may-be-produced-by-GDLS-1
    >35 tons
    >105 mm rifled gun
    >Aluminium armor that's barely autocannon proof
    >1100 hp engine
    >crew of 4
    >$12 million a piece
    That's right, America needed 60 years and the latest in armor technology to make a T-62 equivalent. Razz
    For a single Griffin II the Russians can literally field an entire fucking battalion of T-62s - and still have enough pocket change for another fucking company! Razz
    They should call it the Grift instead, since this vehicle is such a perfect microcosm of everything that is wrong with the US procurement system Razz

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:42 pm

    ... and that alu armor package will get somewhere near the 450 RHAe the 62Ms had 40 years ago?
    Laughing Laughing

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    Post  franco Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:44 pm

    limb wrote:
    It's an admission only to you

    No-one else is dumb enough to believe that Russia has lost its stockpiles of thousands of T-72s in the Ukraine

    Im talking about the the optics of the sutuation.

    So, are you demoralized by the announcement that the Russian army can afford to purchase 800 more tanks in the near future in an active combat reserve? Can you tell me which of the NATO countries is capable of such a thing?
    Yes, because these are tanks from the 1960s. It depends on what tanks. At least its better than 800 more upgraded T-55s or god forbid T-34s.

    France, US and germany can upgrade their AMX-30s, M60s and leopard 1s, but they choose not to because its a waste of money.

    Would you support upgrading MiG-21s and MiG-19s with AESA radars?

    I have not heard that US residents have ever ridiculed the program LCS, F-35, several attempts to develop new armored vehicles, or the use of the T-38 in the US Air Force until now.
    Im talking about the residents of this forum.

    I think you will find that the Russian's care not a fiddler's f#*k about optics, especially to the west and yes even the members of this forum attack

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:49 pm

    T-62 are very good. They are cheap to operate and with a modern engine they can burn far less fuel than t-72 series.

    It's not any less protected than other modern tanks against new atgm. They will go through unless you hit the upper frontal part of the tank. Anti tank teams will aim on side or top so that change nothing anyway.

    It's gun is powerful but require smaller rounds so easier to support. Can take out any ukro vehicle including t-72 if they get newest apfsds.

    I would upgrade 5000 t-62 any day.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:08 pm


    Im talking about the the optics of the sutuation.

    You are saying it looks bad to upgrade and use old vehicles... we don't even know who they might be for...

    They might have decided to gift or sell these tanks to Syria, for which the 115mm smoothbore gun is perfectly fine for their use and perhaps transfer production of the ammo to Syria for their own use.

    Or they might plan to equip their new regions with these vehicles... with ERA and APS systems their protection would not be worse against most anti tank weapons than much heavier and more expensive vehicles.

    France, US and germany can upgrade their AMX-30s, M60s and leopard 1s, but they choose not to because its a waste of money.

    No, they don't upgrade them because that might risk sales and production on new more expensive vehicles.

    Would you support upgrading MiG-21s and MiG-19s with AESA radars?

    With a modern AESA radar and new air to air missiles the MiG-21 is small and cheap to buy and to operate.

    During training exercises with India the Americans said they had problems with the MiGs because they were small and hard to see.

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    limb
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    Post  limb Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:22 pm

    You are saying it looks bad to upgrade and use old vehicles... we don't even know who they might be for...

    They might have decided to gift or sell these tanks to Syria, for which the 115mm smoothbore gun is perfectly fine for their use and perhaps transfer production of the ammo to Syria for their own use.

    Or they might plan to equip their new regions with these vehicles... with ERA and APS systems their protection would not be worse against most anti tank weapons than much heavier and more expensive vehicles.

    That makes sense on first glance, but you gotta keep in mind the large investments needed to keep them going. 115mm ammo production lines need to be restarted, because who knows what percent of 115mm ammo produced is usable. You said a few years before that it makes no sense spending money on restarting 14.5mm or 57mm S-60 production lines. How is the 115mm any different? Even in the 70s the USSR stopped producing 115mm in favor of going all in on 125mm.

    Secondly, most mechanics and engineers with intricate knowledge of the T-62s inner workings are either dead or pensionnaires. You have to spend even more money on training people to learn a tank mechanically much different from the T-72. This can be mitigated by hiring syrian or african mechanics, but still its a waste of money.

    Thirdly, the T-62 requires 4 crew members, which strains the russian already limited manpower reserve even more. You need more men to man less tanks.

    Why spend money on modern APS and ERA on a tank which costs less than those systems?  Judging by no Russian tank in ukraine being equipped with arena or afganit, there will be no APS.


    AFAIK the chita repair plant isnt the best equipped, but its just BS that they didnt give them T-72As, T-64BVs or T-80Bs to upgrade.


    >35 tons
    >105 mm rifled gun
    >Aluminium armor that's barely autocannon proof
    >1100 hp engine
    >crew of 4
    >$12 million a piece
    That's right, America needed 60 years and the latest in armor technology to make a T-62 equivalent. Razz
    For a single Griffin II the Russians can literally field an entire fucking battalion of T-62s - and still have enough pocket change for another fucking company! Razz
    They should call it the Grift instead, since this vehicle is such a perfect microcosm of everything that is wrong with the US procurement system Razz

    This is just a development of the excellent M8 Buford. US procurement was bribed by general dynamics to buy the trash stryker instead of it. The US had these types of tanks since the 80s.

    The only reason to upgrade T-62s would be because of their superior reverse speed and gun depression comapred to the T-72.


    With a modern AESA radar and new air to air missiles the MiG-21 is small and cheap to buy and to operate.

    Anything an upgraded MiG-21 can do, a MiG-29SMT or MiG-35 can do better.

    But at the same time you're against upgrading Su-17s and MiG-27s because they're too primitive and Su-25SM and Su-34 exist.

    Well T-62Ms shouldnt be upgraded because T-72As, T-64BVs and T-80Bs exist.


    It's gun is powerful but require smaller rounds so easier to support. Can take out any ukro vehicle including t-72 if they get newest apfsds.

    The T-62's RoF is only 4-6 rpm. The T-72 has 7-8 rpm. also T-62s dont have ammo concentrated on in one hard to hit spot like the T-72.


    Last edited by limb on Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:31 pm

    limb wrote:
    France, US and germany can upgrade their AMX-30s, M60s and leopard 1s, but they choose not to because its a waste of money.

    Russia can upgrade its T-62s with its spare capacity though. This random tank repair plant in Chita keen on the T-62 that I didn't even know existed. An excellent idea actually.

    But it does go to show the power of vehicle and aircraft repair workshops as auxiliaries to full on production plants. I made some notes about that in one of the threads on Soviet-era equipment in reserve.
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5846p75-soviet-era-reserve-vehicles#377790
    Glad to see they're kinda taking my advice  clown

    You use your plants to produce the very latest things. Such as T-14 Armatas, T-90M Proryvs or T-80BVM upgrades.

    However their capacity and personnel will be occupied with said production. If you wish to upgrade T-72As or T-72Bs, you'll have to divert resources to it and the result is the plant will be split between building T-90Ms and upgrading T-72s, and won't be as streamlined as it could be with either.

    Would you support upgrading MiG-21s and MiG-19s with AESA radars?

    No as those are quite complicated pieces of equipment for which all spare parts and instruments have long been ceased production for and everyone capable of flying is retired; which makes doing anything with them more trouble than they're worth.

    However I would support converting old An-2s into low-speed, very low-altitude, big-payload suicide drones at some aircraft repair plant somewhere that isn't currently occupied with anything more important.

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    Post  Scorpius Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:57 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    How do you expect he will answer being a zoo exhibit?
    Laughing  Laughing
    All NATO and "western" countries that have any serious armor force not only keep the equivalent tanks in ranks but carry the modernization as well.
    And calling M48/60/L1 "an equivalent" is a big favor for them  Laughing  Laughing
    Let's say Israel took the last Magach only in 2014, but they are muchly more privileged.
    Turkey still operates and carries modernization of M48.
    Same Greece.
    South Korea is phasing out the M48 only now, having a replacement program running at full swing.

    T-62M is a killer if compared to M48/M60/Leopard 1. Not only much better armored, but more mobile, with a much more powerful main gun and FCS with ATGM channel.
    It is actually much better than the ones that can be supplied to 404.
    Czech 72M4Cz will be slightly better, but Czech had a whole 30 (THIRTY) pieces.

    By the way, there are tons of new friends in Africa that will take those tanks without a single doubt. The whole project can be much more complex than we might think.
    There is also a fairly simple explanation. Without a third plant engaged in the modernization of T-62 tanks, Russia can exhibit about 250 tanks annually. With this plant, this number increases to 500. But that's not all. Two new armored car factories will also be created in Russia with a total number of employees approximately equal to the number of 103th armored plant.   T-62s in Russian Army - Page 7 1f609


    Last edited by Scorpius on Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:07 pm

    Russkie have thousand of those in storage. Some speculate that about 6-7k.
    It will be a perfectly fine tank for heavy gear national guard they seem to reconstruct at the moment.

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:06 am

    ALAMO wrote:Russkie have thousand of those in storage. Some speculate that about 6-7k.
    It will be a perfectly fine tank for heavy gear national guard they seem to reconstruct at the moment.

    https://223.rts-tender.ru/supplier/auction/Trade/View.aspx?Id=2534949&sso=1&code=-5#1
    https://223.rts-tender.ru/supplier/auction/Trade/View.aspx?Id=2534936#1
    https://223.rts-tender.ru/supplier/auction/Trade/View.aspx?Id=2534943&sso=1&code=-5#1

    Right now, Russia is buying suburban electric trains worth a little more than a billion dollars. That's exactly what a country that almost ran out of tanks in the war is doing, isn't it?  T-62s in Russian Army - Page 7 1f609

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:57 am

    That makes sense on first glance, but you gotta keep in mind the large investments needed to keep them going. 115mm ammo production lines need to be restarted, because who knows what percent of 115mm ammo produced is usable.

    Again, we don't know what the situation is with the 115mm gun and its ammo... the export market means all sorts of different rounds are still in production long after becoming obsolete.

    The 303 rifle bullet is still produced for instance.

    AFAIK there are guided rounds for the 115mm gun but it is not custom designed... it is the same as the 100mm calibre missile used in the BMP-3 and the T-54/55 and also the MT-12 smoothbore 100mm gun... so four different variants of the same missile.

    Properly stored the ammo would be fine for decades, and putting new ammo into production makes sense if these tanks get upgraded and taken out of storage and put back into service because that creates a demand.

    You said a few years before that it makes no sense spending money on restarting 14.5mm or 57mm S-60 production lines. How is the 115mm any different?

    If they had scrapped all their T-62s to get rid of the calibre from their armed forces then selling off the ammo production equipment to another country that uses that calibre still and then they don't need to worry about that calibre any more would reduce logistics complexity, and wont impact front line performance because it really didn't do anything the smoothbore 100mm or 125mm calibres couldn't do.

    But if you have a use for something then it makes sense to use it in areas or locations where newer more expensive options wont be any more effective.

    Fitted with APS and ERA a T-62 is not a bad tank and would be protected from a lot of anti armour weapons that dominate the worlds battlefields like the RPG-7.

    With its BDD add on armour upgraded and improved its armour protection might actually be rather good for its weight and mobility.

    Even in the 70s the USSR stopped producing 115mm in favor of going all in on 125mm.

    That is not true... they even had T-34s in reserve in the 1970s and the Naval Infantry used T-55Ms in Afghanistan in the 1980s because they tested Drozd on them there.

    The conflict in Afghanistan was fought with T-55s and T-62s and some T-72s because they didn't need anything better.

    Secondly, most mechanics and engineers with intricate knowledge of the T-62s inner workings are either dead or pensionnaires. You have to spend even more money on training people to learn a tank mechanically much different from the T-72. This can be mitigated by hiring syrian or african mechanics, but still its a waste of money.

    Mechanics who can work on T-72 engines should be able to pick up a manual for the T-62 engine and quickly work out how to keep it running... it is not more complex... in many ways it is probably a lot simpler, but likely more maintenance intensive compared with new engines.

    Thirdly, the T-62 requires 4 crew members, which strains the russian already limited manpower reserve even more. You need more men to man less tanks.

    You also have more men for maintenance and guard duty and other jobs like loading ammo.

    It is not an enormous burden... for all we know they might be used in the rear areas in Ukraine, or perhaps be sent to Syria... that conflict continues too.

    Why spend money on modern APS and ERA on a tank which costs less than those systems?

    Because mass production reduces waste and costs and allows them to develop and evolve and get better... with feedback from their use they become more effective and useful, and the money going into the companies developing ERA and APS systems means more money for developments and improvements in design... better testing and development... perhaps supercomputers to allow theoretical testing of different materials before money is spend in real tests...

    Judging by no Russian tank in ukraine being equipped with arena or afganit, there will be no APS.

    Maybe experience so far has led them to want to trial a batch of say 800 tanks with APS to see how they go.

    APS is more useful on vehicles whose armour the enemy weapons might otherwise penetrate.

    Anything an upgraded MiG-21 can do, a MiG-29SMT or MiG-35 can do better.

    Totally agree, and for Russia the choice is very clear because their MiG-21s are gone as far as I know... but for a smaller country whose defence needs are not the same if they had MiG-21s then a dozen upgraded MiG-21s and your existing fleet upgraded to that level is a very cost effective solution to improving the fleet, without the serious expense of buying new bigger aircraft for which all your hangars and support equipment are not right for any more.

    I think even for India that the idea of a Tegas light plane and a medium plane like a Rafale is not a good use of their resources and money... I personally think the light aircraft concept could be replaced with the MiG-29M which is cheap to buy and to operate, but has growth potential, and by eliminating an extra different aircraft type from the inventory make serious savings... the Medium Planes... Rafales could be replaced with MiG-35s or invest in their 5th gen light fighter replacement for the 35.... the Kh-69 could replace the storm shadow sneaky land attack missile and to replace Meteor they could joint develop an equivalent scramjet powered AAM that flys at double the speed and can reach out enormous distances to touch...

    The enormous difference in price between the MiGs and the Rafales would leave billions to spend on anything you think needs work and because it will be your billions paying for it instead of renting Rafales from France instead then you would own the technology developed and use it in SAMS and other AAM types... even ATGMs and artillery rounds...

    Instead they pay billions to France for a fourth gen fighter.

    But at the same time you're against upgrading Su-17s and MiG-27s because they're too primitive and Su-25SM and Su-34 exist.

    Older equipment has potential for upgrades but I don't think Russia should put MiG-21s or MiG-23s or any of their older aircraft back into production and replace existing newer models with upgraded older planes.

    Not every job needs a 125mm HE or 125mm APFSDS round. Often even a 100mm round will do, but then part of the upgrade of these T-62s might be replacing the turrets with T-72 turrets, which solves the problems with ammo, but some allies and customers of Russia don't need anything better.

    It is not like they are not upgrading them and in fact if those images of older upgraded tanks with mast mounted EO sights in some aspects they are better than most in service tanks anywhere.

    Smaller lighter cheaper rounds that still get the job done is a good thing.

    Russia sent T-55s and T-62s to Afghanistan in the 1980s because better vehicles were not required.... if these tanks are going to Syria that might be because that is what they want.

    Well T-62Ms shouldnt be upgraded because T-72As, T-64BVs and T-80Bs exist.

    MSo you upgrade these newer vehicles... what do you do with the T-62s you have in stock?

    Just throw them out, or scrap them?

    Odds are they had T-55s there too but probably no T-34s because they actually bought some... when it comes to bringing things out of storage it makes sense to bring the oldest back first... it appears the orcs are not getting HATOs latest... and even if they did they have lots of anti armour rounds to burn those up.

    The T-62's RoF is only 4-6 rpm. The T-72 has 7-8 rpm. also T-62s dont have ammo concentrated on in one hard to hit spot like the T-72.

    The T-72 also has ammo in a protected ammo cassette magazine, but the rate of fire can be variable... when you fire a round the system looks at the selected type of ammo and finds the closest round of that type in the ammo cassette.

    It is possible that you end up with the equivalent of a fragged ammo bin, but there is no defragging option for the future so the rate of fire can certainly go down.

    With a human loader they can mix and match the ammo quickly and might be faster for short periods but will certainly slow down, but can also man a roof mounted HMG when enemy drones are about.


    However I would support converting old An-2s into low-speed, very low-altitude, big-payload suicide drones at some aircraft repair plant somewhere that isn't currently occupied with anything more important.

    Would be interesting... removing the crew and cargo spaces to reduce weight and you could probably load several tons of explosives...  

    They seem to be working on  a range of new air launched weapons with the goals of simple and cheap and therefore affordable and effective to be used widely.

    If that Iranian drone costs $800 to make then by all means make lots.                                          

    Didn't they mention a small accurate cruise missile with a range of 1,000 to 1,500km that would be super cheap to mass produce that would be able to be carried by smaller aircraft and in larger numbers than the current 6m 2.5 ton missiles...

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    Post  Hole Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:48 pm

    The main job of these T-62Ms will be infantry support. They will form tank units inside motorized rifle batallions/regiments. A few weeks ago we saw what a BTR-82A with his 30mm cannon can do to poor M113s. Now imagine what a T-62M can do with his 115mm gun.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:33 pm

    Hole wrote:The main job of these T-62Ms will be infantry support. They will form tank units inside motorized rifle batallions/regiments. A few weeks ago we saw what a BTR-82A with his 30mm cannon can do to poor M113s. Now imagine what a T-62M can do with his 115mm gun.

    They will be a land equivalent of "fleet in being".
    Germans were using archaic tanks to control the insurgencies across Europe well into 1944. Some of the tanks were from the 30s. It is still an issue for insurgents.

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:32 am

    Against an M113 or MRAP the T-34 is overkill.  Laughing

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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:11 am

    Hole wrote:Against an M113 or MRAP the T-34 is overkill.  Laughing

    With a modern upgrade it would be wonderful on the front. Small, fast and effective. Its gun can punch through any vehicle but tank and contrary to heat or apfsds its round explode inside the target.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:08 pm

    A few weeks ago we saw what a BTR-82A with his 30mm cannon can do to poor M113s. Now imagine what a T-62M can do with his 115mm gun.

    If that is what they intend to use it for it would be interesting to develop an APHEI round that punches through decent but not huge layers of armour, or perhaps the built up mound wall in a trench and the explodes inside the target with a decent HE charge with incendiary elements to start fires.

    They should already have a full range of ammo types like HVAPFSDS and HEAT and HE Frag, and also the guided missile to hit moving targets at 5km, but I think an APHE round with less penetration and more bang than would be needed for an actual tank target would be a valuable and effective round.

    They could carry a few APFSDS and HEAT and missiles and the rest HE and APHE.

    I wonder if they will fit those mast EO sights... would be good to see over light cover and just the terrain around the tank... sort of like that god view in tank games... outside and above...
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:12 pm

    First of all, 2A20 uses quite effective HE ammo that was made in the 80s, so this thing is a great support/assault piece.
    As ammo is a full cartridge with brass case, the tank itself is quite well protected from the secondary ignition if penetrated.
    Syrian experience proved that.

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    Post  Robert.V Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:01 pm

    ALAMO wrote:First of all, 2A20 uses quite effective HE ammo that was made in the 80s, so this thing is a great support/assault piece.
    As ammo is a full cartridge with brass case, the tank itself is quite well protected from the secondary ignition if penetrated.
    Syrian experience proved that.


    Not only Syria. In Chechnya T-62 proved itself also. In some case taking ridicules amount of RPG's.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:11 pm

    The only problem with that now is, that the partial solution was opening the hatches to make HEAT gas get away and depriving it of making overpressure inside the hull.
    Now with those bloody small drones dropping IEDs or hand grenades, that part is a risky business Laughing Laughing
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:33 pm

    I must say I am quite curious as to what they will do with the T-62s, just given modern sights and basic ERA the T-62M could be better than most modern medium/light tanks.

    It makes far more sense to modernise old medium tanks than to waste resources and factory floorspace on making lighter tanks from scratch.

    I just hope they give it a remote weapon station with an AGS and an active protection system. Replacing the BDD with modern NERA would also be much appreciated.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:37 pm

    BDD is NERA.
    And quite impressive actually, as filled with high-angeled armored steel plates.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:10 am

    First of all, 2A20 uses quite effective HE ammo that was made in the 80s, so this thing is a great support/assault piece.

    Wasn't suggesting it was bad, but against light armour it would detonate externally which is always less effective than penetrating light armour and exploding.

    I presume it is like 125mm HE ammo and has different safety and fuse settings so it has a graze fuse that explodes on initial contact, and a short delay so it penetrates into a truck or a room before exploding inside... the problem is that against an IFV or medium armoured vehicles the short delay means it still does not penetrate and explodes outside the armour.

    So I am suggesting an armour piercing HE round that can penetrate heavy cover or medium to light armour and then explode... it would be a full calibre round so not really likely to penetrate and kill a heavy tank target, so you would have APFSDS and HEAT rounds for anti tank use and HE rounds for soft targets, but perhaps a quarter of those HE rounds with an armour penetration cap and a bit more velocity to penetrate medium targets... you could still fit it with a graze fuse for exploding on impact.... the shape of the nose will be very aerodynamic, so making that out of just hardened steel should make it able to penetrate MRAPs and light vehicles and log or concrete bunkers and the like.

    Such rounds were popular on the WWII battlefield with light and medium tanks risking the APDS type rounds punching right through and not destroying the tank.

    The only problem with that now is, that the partial solution was opening the hatches to make HEAT gas get away and depriving it of making overpressure inside the hull.
    Now with those bloody small drones dropping IEDs or hand grenades, that part is a risky business

    Mesh screens above the turret impedes the HMG use and likely would not be amazing against Javelin, but it would reduce the effect of hand grenades being dropped from above...

    Modern air conditioners and air filtration systems with powerful electric fans should be at the point where having to open the hatch is a last ditch measure...

    It makes far more sense to modernise old medium tanks than to waste resources and factory floorspace on making lighter tanks from scratch.

    Upgrading T-62s has a lot of potential, but they can't make it amphibious or air droppable...

    BDD is just add on armour and can be updated over time as the NERA designs and materials improve.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:39 am

    Scorpius wrote:
    limb wrote:Why is the tank repair plant in chita ordered to upgrade 800(!) T-62s with thermals and extra armor? This is so irrational. Its a complete waste of money to upgrade utterly obsolete tanks with modern electronics and apllique armor. The upgrade packages must cost more than the entire tanks.
    Or not, if these tanks will be exported to third countries, or will take the role of a reserve of the third line, or will be used as a reinforcement of checkpoints in the controlled territory.

    Upgrading 800 T-62s is also demoralizibg. Its a tacit admission that Russian tank losses are so huge that not even T-72s are enough to replace them.
    So, are you demoralized by the announcement that the Russian army can afford to purchase 800 more tanks in the near future in an active combat reserve? Can you tell me which of the NATO countries is capable of such a thing?

    Doesn't Russia have enough T-80s and T-72Bs in storage to upgrade at least 2000 more tanks into B3M and BVM standard?
    When preparations are underway for a big war, no tank will be superfluous for the defense of our territories.


    If the US or Germany were upgrading their M60s and leopard 1s in 2022, im sure the residents here would ridicule them for weeks.
    I have not heard that US residents have ever ridiculed the program LCS, F-35, several attempts to develop new armored vehicles, or the use of the T-38 in the US Air Force until now.

    P.S. As far as I understand from the news, a separate tank repair plant in Transbaikalia will be engaged in the modernization of the T-62, so the capacities of the Omsk and Tagil plants will continue to be engaged in the production and modernization of the T-72, T-90 and T-80.

    It creates jobs in the region. Good jobs.
    It creates hardware that can be used as infantry support, Logistic lines protection, export to friends. It lifts the number of heavy weapons with good armor. Nothing is wrong.

    The German Empire had the Stug III until the end of the war. A T-62 tank can do the same. There are other options for heavy tanks. Only a T-62 will hardly see a heavy tank T-80 or Leo2. But there are many easy goals and thus the winner.

    The available amount on the battlefield is crucial.

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    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:04 am

    Hole wrote:The main job of these T-62Ms will be infantry support. They will form tank units inside motorized rifle batallions/regiments. A few weeks ago we saw what a BTR-82A with his 30mm cannon can do to poor M113s. Now imagine what a T-62M can do with his 115mm gun.
    I think these tanks would be given to Russian irregular units: Wagner, LPR/DPR militia, volunteers, Cossacks, Chechens, etc. These units don't enjoy as much mechanization as the Russian Army proper so this little bit of armor injection should go a long way in expanding their capabilities for further more offensive inclined operations.

    ALAMO wrote:First of all, 2A20 uses quite effective HE ammo that was made in the 80s, so this thing is a great support/assault piece.
    As ammo is a full cartridge with brass case, the tank itself is quite well protected from the secondary ignition if penetrated.
    Syrian experience proved that.
    That and there are entire warehouses full of the stuff.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    BDD is just add on armour and can be updated over time as the NERA designs and materials improve.

    BDD hardly needs any improvements, as it was made with steel plates - something that is not so obvious these days.
    Soviets benefited vastly from the fact, that the tanks modified with these add-on panels were light, so didn't have to care much about the weight itself.
    A whole concept was actually brilliant, but that turned out to be so only later.
    Add on cage consisted of 30mm hardened steel cover with several (T-55AM turret panels had the most) 5mm thick armored steel plates spaced by the very thick resin sometimes referenced as "rubber".

    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 7 C85CpPT

    Well, it was not a rubber per see, but a polymer created to be elastic still very dense and objectively hard. The effect was, that a shock wave - both from the HEAT jet or AP ammo - made that vibrate and transfers the shock wave inside the panel. The effect was, that the steel plates were vibrating either, and doing so in a noncoordinated manner. The end effect was kind of similar to the heavy type of reactive armor - jest was disrupted, a penetrator could have been broken or had a penetration cap guillotined.
    For T-55 and T-62 glacis, in most cases the LOS of this add on package was about 330mm, and considering the angle of attack, there were at least 3 steel 5mm plates to be penetrated, angeled much more than the main armor.

    T-62s in Russian Army - Page 7 JNtGmIx

    This shit really put the effective total RHAe much above the 300mm for kinetic, and up to 450 for chemical energy. When created, it really made the old tanks much immune to the most powerful L7 gun of the time and gave them a decade of really effective potential.

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