Isos wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:Isos wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:Pretty sure those orders are for India.
The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.
unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.
India has ordered a licence to build them at home.
Grigorovitch my be inferior to Gorshkov but it is still a good ship. Better than all the other ships they have in service if we take out Gorshkov, kirov and Slava.
Sure if you wanna set the bar that low, its a subpar ship by today's standards no way around that
What standards exactly ?
Nato ships come with 16 AD missiles and 8 subsonic anti ship missiles.
This ship comes with 24 AD missiles and 8 multipurpose missiles.
It's a new and well designed ship. Yes Gorshkov is better but this one is ready, modern that would replace one of the old ships and increase number of modern ships that use UKSK.
There are only positive points to finish it.
They can even redisign it to replace shtill with redut, replace the radars and add another UKSK instead of the rbu and paket NK instead of 533mm torpedo.
If they fully redesign it they can spend a considerable amount of time and money to obtain something similar to the baseline Gorshkov class (that than will need to be properly tested).... what is the purpose in that?
It would stop having the cost advantage at that point... and the engines are still not there.
Again let's repeat it; Russia is not going to produce engines for this class and it is not going to modify the design to adapt it to a different powerplant.
Anyway 11356 is not a fully new ship: it is the third and latest modernisation of the soviet Krivak class frigate.
It is a relatively cheap frigate with decent capabilities (probably on par with the chinese Type 054A or a bit better. If it loses its "cheapness" it will not be interesting anymore for Russia. I know that only a few countries have more advanced frigates than grigorovich class (and noone has a better frigate than Gorshov class) but not many countries are allowed to buy such equipment from Russia.
In addition, among these countries which regularly buy from Russia, probably only India can excercize pressure on the Ukraine for the sale of the engines.
And they already operate several other ships of the same class.
Egypt or vietnam could have been interested in it as well, but since they do not operate other ships of this class, it would not be really worth for them (and for Russia it would not make sense to submit again to the blackmail of the ukraine).
But I would not sell it with a discount, India needs it more than Russia.
So for Russia it only makes sense to complete the last ship (and only that, it would be counterproductive to start building additional ships of this class) if a potential customer manage to obtain the engine from the Ukraine.
As I wrote before, only if in the near future Nikolaev would pass into Novorossian hands (or directly into Russian hands) (and of course before the Ukrainians are able to destroy even Zorya Mashproektand its supply chain) it could make sense to propose again this class as relatively cheap export frigate. But not for Russia. Even in that case only the already partially built ship would be built for the Russian Navy (and if the Indians would make a good offer for that, not even that one should be completed for the Russian Navy).
So if Zorya Mashproekt would per absurd be tomorrow in Russian hands, it would make sense to use the increased capacity (Zorya + Saturn for gas turbines (and Zorya + Zvezda for gearboxes)) to build more power plants for additional Gorshkov class ships, and produce the old generation of power plants only for repairs or for cheap export ships
Anyway, this would not be the first time that Yantar shipyard had issues with incomplete old ship projects
In 2016 the same Yantar shipyard scrapped two ships, the third Neustrashimyy-class frigate Tuman and the training ship borodino (that was previously conceived also as light frigate/patrol ship and was also proposed to foreign customers)
the director of the Yantar shipyard announced the incomplete hull was to be scrapped as the high cost of completing the ship to an outdated design was considered inefficient and the space freed up by its disposal could be employed on more cost-effective projects.
Note: I am not suggesting to scrap it, absolutely not.
I just mean not to sell it at too cheap price to India
For Novik and Neustrashimyy-class it was a different issue and they had much more outdated systems (even if both of them were originally thought as replacement of the Krivak class)
But Russia can still wait a bit before taking a decision.