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    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

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    cracker


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    Post  cracker Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:57 pm

    ok, and you have photos or drawings of the components of ammunition of both 152mm families?
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.

    Well that is pathetic, considering they can got standard rounds to 41km in 2011 from the 52 calibre MSTA...

    Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822



    Garry, Izevstiya is a joke that you should not waste your time reading.

    ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:08 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Garry the 48km was rocket assisted.

    Normal rounds were in the 30-35km+ range.

    Well that is pathetic, considering they can got standard rounds to 41km in 2011 from the 52 calibre MSTA...

    Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822



    Garry, Izevstiya is a joke that you should not waste your time reading.

    ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    Is there any word of glide-kits for Koalition's artillery shells? Glide kits can actually help extend the range of already extended range shells to a significant margin. The US Navy has had some good results with glide-kits, like plus 100 km's of range, and of course I know naval guns have the advantage of a much bigger platform, with better stabilization, with a longer gun (62 calibers for the Advanced Gun System and the LRLAP rounds) and more powerful propellants, but still a 40 km+ extended shell could have a additional 15-20 km's with a glide kit.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:04 am

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    So surely the brand new Coalition should do rather better?
    2SPOOKY4U
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:34 am

    You never know, Mindstorm has informed us of the Smerch's 200km range munitions, perhaps a similar case of self-reinforcing bandwagon-type of figures have arisen here?

    It would not be the first time.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    So surely the brand new Coalition should do rather better?

    Well it already does - 48km is certainly an improvement.

    Plus mind you they are not exhausting the range potential of the weapon- the shells seen so far are pretty evolutionary with the biggest improvement being in those fancy corrective fuses.

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    That quote you took doesn't refer to 'normal rounds', but 'old rounds'.
    Specifically, that using old rounds, the new Msta-S SPA will only shoot at a 10% increased range; i.e. from 29km up to 32km.

    But the article doesn't mention what it's range would be with new rounds.
    And we can imagine the Coalition SPA will improve further on that too. +40km with new rounds from the Coalition SPA is quite conceivable, if 32km is the range the latest iteration of the Msta-S SPA gets with old rounds.

    And if the Coalition would get +40km with ordinary rounds; that would place the range of its rocket-assisted ammo at well over 50km.
    The 48km figure therefore, could well be refering to the range for ordinary, new rounds.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:35 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    TR1 wrote:ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    That quote you took doesn't refer to 'normal rounds', but 'old rounds'.
    Specifically, that using old rounds, the new Msta-S SPA will only shoot at a 10% increased range; i.e. from 29km up to 32km.

    But the article doesn't mention what it's range would be with new rounds.
    And we can imagine the Coalition SPA will improve further on that too. +40km with new rounds from the Coalition SPA is quite conceivable, if 32km is the range the latest iteration of the Msta-S SPA gets with old rounds.

    And if the Coalition would get +40km with ordinary rounds; that would place the range of its rocket-assisted ammo at well over 50km.
    The 48km figure therefore, could well be refering to the range for ordinary, new rounds.

    Don't forget glide-kits.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:02 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    The 48km figure therefore, could well be refering to the range for ordinary, new rounds.

    It was confirmed on a forum insider as the current rocket assisted ammo they are testing right now.

    With the guided fuses though.
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:03 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    TR1 wrote:ALSO, in the article you linked:

    "Военный эксперт, главный редактор журнала «Арсенал» Виктор Мураховский пояснил «Известиям», что старыми боеприпасами даже новая «Мста» будет стрелять лишь на 10% дальше, чем старая, то есть максимум на 32 к

    Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/501822#ixzz3UwgJZrq4"

    Itself states with normal rounds the new MSTA has a 32km maximum range.
    The 41km is clearly assisted rounds.

    That quote you took doesn't refer to 'normal rounds', but 'old rounds'.
    Specifically, that using old rounds, the new Msta-S SPA will only shoot at a 10% increased range; i.e. from 29km up to 32km.

    But the article doesn't mention what it's range would be with new rounds.
    And we can imagine the Coalition SPA will improve further on that too. +40km with new rounds from the Coalition SPA is quite conceivable, if 32km is the range the latest iteration of the Msta-S SPA gets with old rounds.

    And if the Coalition would get +40km with ordinary rounds; that would place the range of its rocket-assisted ammo at well over 50km.
    The 48km figure therefore, could well be refering to the range for ordinary, new rounds.

    Don't forget glide-kits.

    Are there any glide kits for 152mm rounds?

    I am not aware of any.
    zg18
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    Post  zg18 Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:53 am

    2S35 being transported by rail

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:13 am

    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm - Page 8 TxCiP
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:07 pm

    Hmm I'm kinda... hmmm sad..because the 2 barreled version doesn't got adopted.

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    Post  cracker Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:04 pm

    and i'm glad about it, nothing more stupid than this system... too heavy, too expensive, too much. It's great that they made it real but it really has no use in the real world
    Zivo
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    Post  Zivo Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:12 pm

    cracker wrote:and i'm glad about it, nothing more stupid than this system... too heavy, too expensive, too much. It's great that they made it real but it really has no use in the real world

    It could end up on ships.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:17 am

    cracker wrote:and i'm glad about it, nothing more stupid than this system... too heavy, too expensive, too much. It's great that they made it real but it really has no use in the real world

    I always thought that the concept of having 2 x 152mm shells land on a target in quick succession was a little.. superflous perhaps?

    I can think of things that would survive two 152mm shells (not many), and I can think of things that wouldn't survive one shell; but just what kind of target would survive one 152mm shell landing on it; but not two?
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:26 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    I always thought that the concept of having 2 x 152mm shells land on a target in quick succession was a little.. superflous perhaps?

    I can think of things that would survive two 152mm shells (not many), and I can think of things that wouldn't survive one shell; but just what kind of target would survive one 152mm shell landing on it; but not two?
    well with two guns per vehicle you can halve the number of needed vehicles to service a target- and have the other half engage in another fire mission simultaneously.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:53 am

    The point is not landing two 152mm shells on one target at one time... the point is that 15 seconds after the first artillery shell lands most vulnerable troops out in the open have taken cover in ditches or along walls or anywhere there is protection so after 15 seconds the effects of the shell is massively reduced.

    That means the shells that explode first and in the first 2-3 seconds are also the most effective.
    With a gun howitzer you can vary the angle by a wide range and the propellent charge by a wide range, which means with a modern gun you can fire 5-6 rounds with different angles and different propellent loads so all those rounds land on the target area within a couple of seconds of each other... even just with one barrel. With two barrels you can land twice as many rounds in that critical first few second period... it is those first few seconds that count...

    Modern 30km plus range rounds will likely be supersonic and therefore arrive without warning.

    Note with two guns on each vehicle you wont reduce the number of vehicles you need... you should just manage to get twice as many effective rounds on target before you move out to void counter battery fire.
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    Post  TheArmenian Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    That means the shells that explode first and in the first 2-3 seconds are also the most effective.
    With a gun howitzer you can vary the angle by a wide range and the propellent charge by a wide range, which means with a modern gun you can fire 5-6 rounds with different angles and different propellent loads so all those rounds land on the target area within a couple of seconds of each other... even just with one barrel. With two barrels you can land twice as many rounds in that critical first few second period... it is those first few seconds that count...

    That capability is over-glorified. It can be used only at short to medium ranges.
    Over longer distances, you need the maximum charge with gun elevations (angles) around 45 degrees. You can't play much.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:33 am

    With a computer ballistics program and variable charge propellent you can literally land 5-6 rounds at one time on one place.

    As you mention of course you can't do it at max range, but max range is generally used for counter battery fire anyway. (Rockets are faster anyway and have the advantage of generally all landing rapidly too).
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    Post  collegeboy16 Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:58 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:

    That capability is over-glorified. It can be used only at short to medium ranges.
    Over longer distances, you need the maximum charge with gun elevations (angles) around 45 degrees. You can't play much.
    all the better then- with a heavily armored chassis Koalition would be able to shrug off all but direct hits from enemy arty fire and end the arty duel with the enemy a burned out husk amidst a smoking crater.
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    Post  Cyberspec Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:29 am

    Remotely controlled 6S21 turret (12.7mm) for Coalition-SV

    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm - Page 8 Th_688437818_modul_6c21_002_122_379lo 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm - Page 8 Th_768843883_modul_6c21_003_122_158lo
       

    http://topwar.ru/71530-koaliciyu-sv-zaschitit-turelnaya-ustanovka-6s21.html

    Something interesting from the above link...

    - The Coalition has a pneumatic loading mechanism and microwave ignition system.
    - Formation of modular propellant charge is carried out automatically.
    - Data entry in the shell fuses is also carried out automatically.

    ...

    P.S.

    There's an oppinion that the T-14 tank will also be equipped with a 6S21 turret....maybe in this configuration

    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm - Page 8 Th_689529767_6S21_TM_2014_10_122_352lo
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:10 am

    all the better then- with a heavily armored chassis Koalition would be able to shrug off all but direct hits from enemy arty fire and end the arty duel with the enemy a burned out husk amidst a smoking crater.

    Well we don't know how well protected the turret is, but the crew in the hull capsule should be the safest artillery men in any army....

    - The Coalition has a pneumatic loading mechanism and microwave ignition system.
    - Formation of modular propellant charge is carried out automatically.
    - Data entry in the shell fuses is also carried out automatically.

    WOW... formation of modular propellent charge... sounds like fully variable charge... I wonder if they mean it uses Binary propellent.

    I suspect the ballistics computer calculates the trajectory and uses information like air temperature and propellent temperature etc to determine how much propellent to use for a particular shot and then loads that amount.

    The automatic fuse setting is necessary and was previously used on the T-90 with the ANEIT system that could set shells to air burst over the target using a timing fuse.

    Perhaps these 48km test shots are just the beginning and much greater ranges are potentially possible... binary propellent would certainly make the turret much safer in the event of a penetration as the two or more components of propellent might not even burn when separately stored.

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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:48 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:all the better then- with a heavily armored chassis Koalition would be able to shrug off all but direct hits from enemy arty fire and end the arty duel with the enemy a burned out husk amidst a smoking crater.

    Koalitsiya doesn't need and wouldn't have the posibility for having a heavily-armored chassis.
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    Post  TR1 Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:09 am

    Where does it say the propellant is modular?

    All I have seen so far is the projectiles are modular, nothing specifically about the propellant.

    I will repost the word for word translation:

    -Chassis is indeed modified T-90. Strengthened to withstand fire stress, system is long ready and waiting for Armata chassis.
    -Turret is entirely unmanned.
    -Combustible modular ammunition.
    -New fire control system, with radar on the chassis that communicates with the shell fuse.
    -Currently testing rounds @ 48km range.
    -New EMP rounds among the whole brand new ammo selection.

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