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    Mistral News thread

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:51 pm

    Now we look at that:

    http://rt.com/news/208655-mistral-russia-delivery-france/

    France already missed a mid-November deadline for handing over the first of the amphibious assault ships to Russia.

    On November 16, one of the France’s biggest union federations, Workers’ Force, called on Paris to fulfill the Mistral deal and deliver the two warships to Russia, otherwise 2,500 shipyard employees may lose their jobs.

    Le Figaro reported that the union expressed "shock and outrage" after Paris put off the delivery due to pressure from the US and EU, which imposed several waves of sanctions against Moscow after Crimea joined Russia amid the Ukraine crisis.

    Both Washington and Brussels have pressed Paris into suspending the contract for two Mistral ships - clearly as part of an ongoing strategy to pressure Moscow with sanctions over its perceived involvement in the Ukrainian crisis.

    Meanwhile, France faces a multibillion-dollar fine if it fails to deliver, under the terms of the contract.

    Back in September several hundred protesters gathered in western France, in the harbor of Saint-Nazaire, to protest against the French government's decision to suspend the delivery of a Mistral warship to Russia.

    People gathered by the docked Vladivostok were holding banners that read, "Hollande wants to kill Saint-Nazaire. We say no,” and “Let's deliver Mistral and provide our citizens with job" and "For the victory of Mistral, for our independence."

    Now that is clear, Hollande has to choose the side. One side is the U.S. goverment. One side is his own people. Which one do you want to choose, Hollande ?
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:28 pm

    He chose USA.

    Hopefully Russia will take France to court. Or demand money back and if france doesnt pull through, Russia then strips Frances assets in Russia as payment.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:59 am

    sepheronx wrote:He chose USA.

    Hopefully Russia will take France to court. Or demand money back and if france doesnt pull through, Russia then strips Frances assets in Russia as payment.

    The loss is not only money, but also reputation.

    Now, Russia can easily point the finger into France and say: "See ? Can you see ? Your President and his subordinates are the servants of Washington DC. They do not serve you. They do not serve their own country. They are serving Obama and the bosses in the U.S."

    Hollande and the scumbags in EU politics are being humiliated in all these affairs.
    runaway
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    Post  runaway on Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:11 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:He chose USA.

    Hopefully Russia will take France to court. Or demand money back and if france doesnt pull through, Russia then strips Frances assets in Russia as payment.

    The loss is not only money, but also reputation.

    Now, Russia can easily point the finger into France and say: "See ? Can you see ? Your President and his subordinates are the servants of Washington DC. They do not serve you. They do not serve their own country. They are serving Obama and the bosses in the U.S."

    Hollande and the scumbags in EU politics are being humiliated in all these affairs.


    Yes, this a big blow to France reputation as a weapon supplier, it may have impact on both India and other would be buyers.
    No point waiting any longer, russia should asap begin building its own version of Mistral, they now have the knowhow and experience from Mistral stern sections.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:50 am

    I think if France was going to say no they would have done so already... they seem to be holding off saying they wont supply them... either in the hope that Putin might do something they can use to justify their breaking the contract, or because they think they are getting a benefit from the current situation.

    Without knowing what threats or carrots the US is or is not offering it is hard to say one way or the other... I suspect they are likely saying something along the lines of... if you hand over the Mistrals the Russians will use them to invade and annex the whole of the Ukraine and it will be all Frances fault...

    As silly as that sounds of course... probably from the same geniuses that thought the Soviets were in Afghanistan on their way to a warm water port... the Soviet Navy was never that important to warrant such a risky enterprise.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:22 am

    More likely, the USGov is offering to waive part of the $9B penalty imposed on BNP Paribas over their breaking of US santions against Cuba, Sudan and Iran. Its a classic carrot and stick, though the stick is big and gnarly and the carrot is small and bitter. It fits in well with Washingtons penchant for punishment of disobedient Eurotrash vassals, followed by a sanctimonious pat on the head when public acts of contrition are duly offered.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:17 am

    India will dump MMRCA Deal with France :
    Russian Media Published November 26, 2014 | By admin

    SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN )

    Russian news and analysis website Pravda.Ru today has made a strange claim in its report that Indian authorities may cancel the contract that was signed with France in early September for the delivery of 126 Rafale fighters, should France refuse to supply Mistral vessels to Russia. The contract with India is evaluated from $20 to $22 billion. First of all India still has not signed any agreement with France yet and most likely it will happen only next year .France has suspended “until further notice” the controversial delivery of a helicopter carrier to the Russian navy. President Francois Hollande blamed continuing unrest in eastern Ukraine, where Russia is accused of backing separatists in their fight against the government in Kiev. It is highly unlikely that any dispute on delivery of Mistral-class amphibious assault ships to Russia will have any effect on MMRCA negotiation or India under pressure will terminate talks with France on purchase of 126 Rafale fighter jets . This is second time Russia media has linked dispute on delivery of Mistral-class ships with MMRCA in recent times , in directly warning France of hurting them in other military deals . French online publication Breizh, international experts also had warned that France risked losing the reputation of a reliable arms supplier with its decision not to ship Mistral vessels to Russia and India under Russian Pressure might back off from MMRCA deal . Russia’s Ambassador to India, Alexander M. Kadakin recently slammed India’s decision to buy French Built Rafale and said that the Dassault Aviation-manufactured fighter aircraft could be shot down like a mosquito by a Chinese-manufactured or produced Sukhoi jet should there ever be a conflict in the neighborhood. Russians might not have that level of cloud with India anymore to force India to drop plans to Purchase French Rafale fighter jets but it seems Frustrated Russia wants to hit back France and may be putting some level of pressure on India to dump MMRCA deal . Russian president Vladimir Putin will be visiting India next month and India and Russia are likely to take a call on Joint development of FGFA 5th generation fighter aircraft based on Russian Pak-Fa fighter jets .

    Copied from idrw.org India will dump MMRCA Deal with France : Russian Media | idrw.org
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:36 am

    So 5th columnist Serdyukov's entanglement of Russia with NATO in a hardware purchase is playing itself out as one would
    have expected. NATO exists to be the gang enemy of Russia. NATO clown leaders thought they won a war on 1991
    and laughed at the idea that the USSR collapsed through internal processes. They want their rewards but Russia is not
    rolling over and actually has the gall to defend its interests and the rights of Russians in Ukraine.

    France can eat those buckets. NATO has nothing to teach Russia.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:26 am

    Russia should take the money back from France and invest it in manufacturing the Project 1174 Ivan Rogov Class Landing Ship.

    This should not be a difficult job for Yantar.

    In any case DCN is not transfering critical technologies related to the Mistral.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:22 pm

    No Deal? France Says it Might Never Deliver Mistral Ships to Russia

    According to French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, there is a possiblity that France will never go throught with the delivery of the Mistral-class ships.

    PARIS, December 5 (Sputnik) — It is possible that France will never deliver to Russia the Mistral-class ships it built under a contract with the country if the situation in Ukraine does not change, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Friday.

    "At the moment we are not handing over [the Mistral ships]. It is possible that we will never do and Russia is aware of it," Le Drian told news channel BFM TV.

    He noted that France's final decision on Mistral delivery will depend on the development of the situation in Ukraine.
    http://sputniknews.com/military/20141205/1015530292.html
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:52 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:No Deal? France Says it Might Never Deliver Mistral Ships to Russia

    According to French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, there is a possiblity that France will never go throught with the delivery of the Mistral-class ships.

    PARIS, December 5 (Sputnik) — It is possible that France will never deliver to Russia the Mistral-class ships it built under a contract with the country if the situation in Ukraine does not change, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Friday.

    "At the moment we are not handing over [the Mistral ships]. It is possible that we will never do and Russia is aware of it," Le Drian told news channel BFM TV.

    He noted that France's final decision on Mistral delivery will depend on the development of the situation in Ukraine.
    http://sputniknews.com/military/20141205/1015530292.html

    Modi needs to drop the Rafale deal to show France it can't just steal money from their clients, and there's plenty of chicanery in that jet fighter deal as well. France is becoming such a vassal state, they're destroying the reputation of their dying arms industry.
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:04 pm

    Very well said!
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:06 pm

    From my impression so far i could make about modi, is that he is happily stupid with lobbism, i don't think he acts in favor of indians military capability and i don't think he realizes the situation he is maneuvering india in. I don't think he realizes that the West will destroy every BRICS member if this is what it takes to survive for the dying parasite USA. I see Modi as a lobbiest and not acting wisely.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:29 am

    Rafale is the result of lobbyism and corruption inside of Indian Armed Forces. Compared to Sukhoi and MiG, Rafale is much less cost-effective.

    One off-topic question: why the euro-canard still go with the configuration of "deltawing and cylindrical hull" (standard of MiG-21 and Ye- Cool, while US and Russia has already tagged along with "broaden hull and strong, thick wing" (standard of MiG-25) ?
    medo
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    Post  medo on Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:35 am

    France say never until 2017, when Le Pen become new president.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:49 am

    medo wrote:France say never until 2017, when Le Pen become new president.

    Only if the elections are actually elections and not selections like most of the time.
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    Post  GJ Flanker on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:29 am

    Beside Russia, there is, IMHO, only India as a potential customer for the 2 "Ex-Russian" Mistrals. China would buy them gladly but the Americans would never allow this. Twisted Evil
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    Post  par far on Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:45 pm

    Make the dam French pay the money back with huge penalties, if they don't deliver the Mistrals.
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:32 am

    par far wrote:Make the dam French pay the money back with huge penalties, if they don't deliver the Mistrals.

    I'm all for wringing them like a wet sponge to squeeze out every dollar. Twist it right the way around Laughing

    But I think Putin's not in the mood for it, he's willing to brush it under the rug. Big softie he is.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:49 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    par far wrote:Make the dam French pay the money back with huge penalties, if they don't deliver the Mistrals.

    I'm all for wringing them like a wet sponge to squeeze out every dollar. Twist it right the way around Laughing

    But I think Putin's not in the mood for it, he's willing to brush it under the rug. Big softie he is.

    I sure hope not.  This would give a sting to France.  Already people are pissed off at the idiot they have as a leader.  This could be even a bigger sting.  Putin has nothing to lose and everything to gain.  Not only do he make France politicians looks incompetent, he also will get his money + more back.  As well, France will lose credit on the international arms market, which is a competitor to Russia.
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:56 am

    No reason to tease France too much. LePeen is pro Russian like all nationalists and besides can't afford to be otherwise anyway. Even Sarkozy is Russian friendly.
    Only Socialists are pro Zionists but hey in 10 years there will be no leftists in Europe anyway so screw them. When people get hungry have to think right, you know where the term is coming from don't you Very Happy
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    Post  type055 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:05 pm

    GJ Flanker wrote:Beside Russia, there is, IMHO, only India as a potential customer for the 2 "Ex-Russian" Mistrals. China would buy them gladly but the Americans would never allow this. Twisted Evil





    China dont't want to buy it china has its own plan, Mistrals this type ship is easy to build by itsself Twisted Evil as i heard PLA has 30000 tons Amphibious assault ship plan Twisted Evil
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    Post  type055 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:26 pm

    I heard some news from china website, china buy Pomornik-class Large LCAC from Ukraine, but this LCAC made in Crimea. russian says we need pay them, it make china confused ,cos Ukraine and russia both are our friends ~ Shocked hard choice dunno
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    Post  type055 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:42 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    par far wrote:Make the dam French pay the money back with huge penalties, if they don't deliver the Mistrals.

    I'm all for wringing them like a wet sponge to squeeze out every dollar. Twist it right the way around Laughing

    But I think Putin's not in the mood for it, he's willing to brush it under the rug. Big softie he is.

    I sure hope not.  This would give a sting to France.  Already people are pissed off at the idiot they have as a leader.  This could be even a bigger sting.  Putin has nothing to lose and everything to gain.  Not only do he make France politicians looks incompetent, he also will get his money + more back.  As well, France will lose credit on the international arms market, which is a competitor to Russia.



    France don't afraid lose credit , they don't have any credit at first. think about Falklands War they keep Exocet missile, they don't give them to Argentina in time
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    Post  Firebird on Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:17 pm

    type055 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    par far wrote:Make the dam French pay the money back with huge penalties, if they don't deliver the Mistrals.

    I'm all for wringing them like a wet sponge to squeeze out every dollar. Twist it right the way around Laughing

    But I think Putin's not in the mood for it, he's willing to brush it under the rug. Big softie he is.

    I sure hope not.  This would give a sting to France.  Already people are pissed off at the idiot they have as a leader.  This could be even a bigger sting.  Putin has nothing to lose and everything to gain.  Not only do he make France politicians looks incompetent, he also will get his money + more back.  As well, France will lose credit on the international arms market, which is a competitor to Russia.



    France don't afraid lose credit , they don't have any credit at first. think about Falklands War they keep Exocet missile, they don't give them to Argentina in time

    Britain was absolutely furious at France due to Exocet.
    Argentine Exocets did massive damage. And France continued with tech support during the War.
    I don't know if they continued supplying them during the War, probably not.

    In British eyes this was like America supplying Al Qaeda against Canada. The pt was, both were EEC partners, the earlier version of the EU. And both were pretty much the other's biggest trade partner.

    So I'm puzzled at why the French are so cowardly against America. Altho, in fairness they do have a prior reputation..

    Maybe it was all because France wanted to supply the Mistrals with 1 forward and 6 reverse gears...

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