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    Mistral News thread

    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:40 pm

    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20141027/194674252/France-to-Deliver-First-Mistral-to-Russia-Around-Mid-November.html

    SAINT-NAZAIRE (FRANCE), October 27 (RIA Novosti) – The ceremony for France handing over to Russia the first Mistral helicopter carrier will occur in mid-November of this year in the city of Saint-Nazaire, a representative from the port city's worker's union told RIA Novosti on Monday.

    "The ceremony of France transferring the first Mistral helicopter under the name of the Vladivostok to Russia is [scheduled for] November 14 of this year," the representative said.

    He said the date is not yet official, but the wharf's employees are preparing for the ceremony.

    STX shipbuilding company expect delivery of Mistral ship Vladivostok in November 14th.
    sepheronx
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    Mistral News thread - Page 21 Empty French corporations refuse to disclose dates of Mistrals’ delivery to Russia

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:17 pm

    PARIS, October 27. /TASS/. French naval shipbuilding corporations DCNS and STX do not plan to release information on presumable dates of delivery of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, Emmanuel Gaudez, an official spokesman for the DCNS told TASS on Monday.
    DCNS is the chief designer and contractor in the project, while the ships are built at the STX yards in Saint Nazaire.
    Gaudez said the corporations’ officials refrained from releasing any information on the issue, adding that the company’s stance reflected the extremely delicate political character of the contract.

    Not worth working with France. Seems to me that France should face economic threats from Russia over this. If France refuses to return money + extra based upon contract, then Russia should kick out Thales from Russia, and allow UOMZ to build the thermals as well as the Domacles pod without license, and sell to whom they want, over damages to Mistral.

    Screw France.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:25 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    PARIS, October 27. /TASS/. French naval shipbuilding corporations DCNS and STX do not plan to release information on presumable dates of delivery of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, Emmanuel Gaudez, an official spokesman for the DCNS told TASS on Monday.
    DCNS is the chief designer and contractor in the project, while the ships are built at the STX yards in Saint Nazaire.
    Gaudez said the corporations’ officials refrained from releasing any information on the issue, adding that the company’s stance reflected the extremely delicate political character of the contract.

    Not worth working with France.  Seems to me that France should face economic threats from Russia over this.  If France refuses to return money + extra based upon contract, then Russia should kick out Thales from Russia, and allow UOMZ to build the thermals as well as the Domacles pod without license, and sell to whom they want, over damages to Mistral.

    Screw France.
    Not worth working with any NATO country when it comes to the defense industry, and to be honest this Mistral mess was inevitable. Russia has already stated that they will take France to international court (whatever it is called) if the deal is cancelled. I doubt France wants to give billions to Russia right now, if ever.... France knows what could happen, as does Russia. The deal will continue, mark my word.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:32 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    PARIS, October 27. /TASS/. French naval shipbuilding corporations DCNS and STX do not plan to release information on presumable dates of delivery of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, Emmanuel Gaudez, an official spokesman for the DCNS told TASS on Monday.
    DCNS is the chief designer and contractor in the project, while the ships are built at the STX yards in Saint Nazaire.
    Gaudez said the corporations’ officials refrained from releasing any information on the issue, adding that the company’s stance reflected the extremely delicate political character of the contract.

    Not worth working with France.  Seems to me that France should face economic threats from Russia over this.  If France refuses to return money + extra based upon contract, then Russia should kick out Thales from Russia, and allow UOMZ to build the thermals as well as the Domacles pod without license, and sell to whom they want, over damages to Mistral.

    Screw France.
    Not worth working with any NATO country when it comes to the defense industry, and to be honest this Mistral mess was inevitable. Russia has already stated that they will take France to international court (whatever it is called) if the deal is cancelled. I doubt France wants to give billions to Russia right now, if ever.... France knows what could happen, as does Russia. The deal will continue, mark my word.

    Well, for France's case/image, I hope you are right. But international courts are European by nature and will work against Russia (already has when trying about the Yuko's case even though it was thrown out of another international court. But brought it up again thanks to politics).

    But France also knows a lot of their projects are in the red in Russia if this deal doesn't go through and may lose billions as well as secretive technology to boot. So for their sake, I hope you are right.
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:37 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    PARIS, October 27. /TASS/. French naval shipbuilding corporations DCNS and STX do not plan to release information on presumable dates of delivery of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, Emmanuel Gaudez, an official spokesman for the DCNS told TASS on Monday.
    DCNS is the chief designer and contractor in the project, while the ships are built at the STX yards in Saint Nazaire.
    Gaudez said the corporations’ officials refrained from releasing any information on the issue, adding that the company’s stance reflected the extremely delicate political character of the contract.

    Not worth working with France.  Seems to me that France should face economic threats from Russia over this.  If France refuses to return money + extra based upon contract, then Russia should kick out Thales from Russia, and allow UOMZ to build the thermals as well as the Domacles pod without license, and sell to whom they want, over damages to Mistral.

    Screw France.
    Not worth working with any NATO country when it comes to the defense industry, and to be honest this Mistral mess was inevitable. Russia has already stated that they will take France to international court (whatever it is called) if the deal is cancelled. I doubt France wants to give billions to Russia right now, if ever.... France knows what could happen, as does Russia. The deal will continue, mark my word.

    Well, for France's case/image, I hope you are right.  But international courts are European by nature and will work against Russia (already has when trying about the Yuko's case even though it was thrown out of another international court.  But brought it up again thanks to politics).

    But France also knows a lot of their projects are in the red in Russia if this deal doesn't go through and may lose billions as well as secretive technology to boot.  So for their sake, I hope you are right.
    Agreed... Hopefully the courts will be as unbiased as possible, though, like you said, they are pro-NATO in general. 

    Thankfully France can be threatened via their technology and projects inside of Russia. This gives Russia a lot of power in this matter, power that will not go unnoticed by France or NATO for that matter. France has so far seemed to understand the consequences of canceling this deal, hopefully they continue to do so...

    News on crew training aboard the Mistral indicate that things are going fine, so there is no need to be worried...
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:26 pm

    What is up with the Mistral? TASS says that Russia will receive the ship on the 14th, and France denies that.... 

    France to hand over first Mistral helicopter carrier to Russia on Nov.14

    France gives no confirmation of Mistral delivery set for Nov. 14

    First Mistral helicopter carrier may set out for Russia on November 15 to 20 — source

    Confused yet? Then there is an article on building them at the Baltic Shipyard...

    Russia’s Baltic Shipyard ready to build Mistral helicopter carriers
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:31 am

    A comment about the Mistral deal.

    Original language: Vietnamese

    Huy Phúc wrote:APF claimed that on 6 November, French Prime Minister stated that it had not been the right time yet to deliver the Mistral ships to Russia.

    Ha ha, bullshit.

    EU is amusing. It has just spent several billion USD for Ukraina to pay the debt to Russia and to contiue the oil/gas supply to next year. That means EU has to spend the money to pay for its own stupidity.

    The fact is that at the moment, European farmers have already started the massive protest against the sanction upon Russia. Below video clips is event at Nancy. And in Paris, potatoes have been thrown to the streets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elcp0wi8FW0

    In such circumstance, the claims of French goverment officers cannot do anything to calm the public anxiety. They are just servant who are barking for their master, that is the United States. At the moment, Obama's reputation is suffering terribly with the loss of both Upper and Lower House to the Republicans, and his support rate is only 30%. In politics, Obama is completely checked. In such circumstance, international activities of the American mafia has to be supported with everything they has.

    Four Mistrals are about 300-500 mil of euro, means 80-120 mil each. But the problem is that, the Mistral contract serves as the counterbalance for the 1 billion USD Soyuz contract in the Gallileo GPS project. In more details, since Soyuz has already occupied the market of Ariane and kicked Ariane out, Russia and France have to create a compensation contract to keep Ariane ands its lackeys alive. After all, French goverment's life force is the parasites and bullshit who stick their mouths to the main manufacturing enterprises.

    And that is the Mistral. The Mistral contract creates thousand of jobs for French workers. The price of Russian-bought Mistrals is extremely high compare to the original prices, but that is not a problem since EU has provided subsidises. Well, actually Russian public has been criticized this Mistral contract due to the abnormal expensiveness. Russian people dislike this contract.

    You can say that the Mistral is a naked human body. And in this contract, Russia supplies the underwear for that naked body. That underwear is the whole cable system of the ship. The driver for hydrodynamic system is also created by Russia. And what France does is simply build the hull.

    In order to calm down the anxiety of the public about the Mistral project, the propaganda machine of the West has constantly been blabbering that:

    1)If the contract is abandoned, French Army will use the Mistral itself. However the problem is that, EU is suffering the economical depression and so is France.
    2)If France cannot, NATO will use it. This information was provided by Eliot Engel, Michael Turner, the U.S. congressmen who deal with EU problem, in a letter to NATO. However, EU public protested violently and the proposal was driven to the ground.
    3)Canada will buy the Mistral. Canada said "WTF ?"
    4)Japan will buy the Mistral. And Japanese people protested. Japanese is still frightening about the three arrows of Shinzo Abe and Japan is building their own amphibious ship so there is no reason to buy foreign ones.

    Finally, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitru Rogozin has made things clear. He accepted the invitation to come to France for receiving the first Mistral ship.

    http://vietnamese.ruvr.ru/news/2014_11_06/279681830/

    So it is clear. The things about Japan, Canada, bla bla is just propaganda and jerking off to fool the people. France cannot sell the ship to anyone other than Russia because the information system and some parts of the ship is built by Russia. If Russia doesn't agree, France can't sell. If France want to use these Mistral for their own, it has to use the software provided by Russia.

    And France has no choice but to provide the first Mistral ship in 14 November.

    In fact Mistral should have been delivered in October already. The deliveruy is delayed and France has to pay the punishment fee. After 3 months delay, the contract is broken.

    But wait, no France cannot break the contract. Because Russia has already invested their materiel and money into the information system and parts of the ship. The contract is broken means France has to give a compensation money. After all he and she have a child and even if they are divorced, they cannot split the child into two.

    And Mr. Yves Destefani, French Director of the Mistral project also said the same thing about deliverly in 14 November. And he was sacked.

    http://vietnamese.ruvr.ru/news/2014_11_01/279490160/

    And Russia counter-attacked by recognizing the Novorossiyan election. And put a sanction agaisnt European farm products.

    In short, the French goverment is a servant of foreign power i.e. the United States. And in order to please its U.S. master, French goverment declared war against its own people.
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    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:26 pm

    Soviet LHD Project 11780
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:45 pm

    Only reason Russia bought the mistrals from france is because they have their ship builders very busy with other orders and will have been more expensive to do it themselves and start from zero ,building a ship that its done from scratch .  Also Russia wanted to learn new ways of ship building from france make their hulls. More a appearance thing than anything.. Russia do not make their ships with so soft curves and clean look like france do , Russian techniques are more traditional in ship building their hulls..

    Now Russian Technicians knows how the magic works and could do a mistral completely identical to how France do theirs without reinventing the wheel in a quick way.

    You can see that with Russia latest warships.. Russia is looking to improve not only the functionality of their warships but also its appearance too , radar reduction and modern look ..

    compare the Russia newest gorshkov class frigates
    Mistral News thread - Page 21 U5JnLf9

    versus French La Fayette frigates..
    Mistral News thread - Page 21 FS_Surcouf

    Look at those nice lines in la fayette warship.. the Gorshkov follows a more traditional non stealthy design.
    Even though the russian frigate is far better than the french one, the elegance of how france design their ships is way superior to Russian shipbuilders..
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:00 am

    Elegance? Looks? Are you serious?

    While I'd argue that the French frigate is more stealthy, that means next to nothing in an actual engagement where the ships would be found within hours.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:04 am

    Hmmm.. comparing an incomplete vessel still in dry dock with almost no superstructure fitted with a photo of an operational ship and talking about elegance?

    what exactly is this modern look?

    And how can you tell which is more stealthy?

    I would argue the AESA radar arrays of the Russian vessel will be rather more potent and stealthy than those fitted to that French vessel and I am very certain that Onyx and Kalibr are a much more potent weapon load too.

    Looking at the weak self defence armament of the Mistral I would question the defence capabilities of French vessels in general.

    Russia part built the Mistrals and got no access to the designs of other French vessels, so I really don't know what stealth secrets they might have gained from producing Mistrals.

    Currently the best ship builders in the world would be South Korea and as there is a joint venture to build a port in Russia that uses South Korean boat building technology and technique I would wonder out loud why spend money on a french helicopter barge.

    Indeed the war in 8 8 8 opened the Russian eyes to what happens when its troops are attacked... western public opinion will always go against them so they have to be ready to defend their own interests. That means in the Kurile Islands and in the arctic they need to have forces that can defend their interests... plans are for two Mistrals in the pacific and two in the arctic, but I am sure they could make do with one in each area if need be.

    the point is that the mistral are proven designs that were ready to produce... they could easily have designed from scratch much better (for them) vessels but it would have taken a decade... which they felt they didn't have.

    they paid for Mistrals because they could have two in service by the end of 2015... if they knew they couldn't have them till 2025 then they would not have bought them.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    the point is that the mistral are proven designs that were ready to produce... they could easily have designed from scratch much better (for them) vessels but it would have taken a decade... which they felt they didn't have.

    they paid for Mistrals because they could have two in service by the end of 2015... if they knew they couldn't have them till 2025 then they would not have bought them.

    Bingo, and the truth is so clear that I wonder why people still argue about it.  If I was the RusFedGov I would much rather have 2 helicopters carriers in 2015 than have nothing but plastic models in a showcase and PowerPoint presentations for the next 10 years.  It also frees up Russian shipyards to turn out more Corvettes and Frigates which are going to be the basis of Russias new littorial (ie homewater) defense.  All up, its a solid and sensible decision.

    Now we simply need the weak-kneed Gaullic cheese-eating surrender monkeys to grow some @$%&ing backbone and tell the warmongers of Morodor on the Potomac to go and shove their well-laid plans up their well-laid ar$se$..   Twisted Evil
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    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:36 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    the point is that the mistral are proven designs that were ready to produce... they could easily have designed from scratch much better (for them) vessels but it would have taken a decade... which they felt they didn't have.

    they paid for Mistrals because they could have two in service by the end of 2015... if they knew they couldn't have them till 2025 then they would not have bought them.

    Bingo, and the truth is so clear that I wonder why people still argue about it.  If I was the RusFedGov I would much rather have 2 helicopters carriers in 2015 than have nothing but plastic models in a showcase and PowerPoint presentations for the next 10 years.  It also frees up Russian shipyards to turn out more Corvettes and Frigates which are going to be the basis of Russias new littorial (ie homewater) defense.  All up, its a solid and sensible decision.

    Now we simply need the weak-kneed Gaullic cheese-eating surrender monkeys to grow some @$%&ing backbone and tell the warmongers of Morodor on the Potomac to go and shove their well-laid plans up their well-laid ar$se$..   Twisted Evil

    If they don't, the workers who are building the Mistrals will go to the parliament building and throw the ship into their faces.

    For Paris, the question is simple. You choose Washington DC or you choose your own working people ?

    Due to the sanctions, farmers in EU is protesting in the cities and throw shits to the EU rulers now. Can't wait to see industrial workers do the same thing.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:19 am

    Moscow to seek damages if Mistral ship not delivered by end Nov - source
    Moscow will make financial claims to France if the first of two Mistral warships built for Russia are not delivered by the end of November, according to a source. However, France said that its actions will not be “dictated.”

    The warning came from a high-ranking source and was published on Friday by RIA Novosti news agency. It comes after France missed a mid-November deadline for handing over the first of the amphibious assault ships to Russia.

    "We are preparing for different scenarios. We are waiting until the end of the month [the fulfillment of Mistral deal], then we will make serious claims," the source said on condition of anonymity.

    According to the source, experts are currently analyzing possible damage to Russia if the deal is not fulfilled, and the estimated sum will be made public.

    "This amount [of compensation] will not be secret," the source added.

    The veiled threat prompted reaction from French leadership.

    Looks like time is running out for France.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:37 am

    Looks like french is happily a slave of US empire and their political games.
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    Post  Mike E on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:25 am

    Werewolf wrote:Looks like french is happily a slave of US empire and their political games.
    Unfortunately true... Though I still think they will be *forced* to deliver the ships.
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    Post  medo on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:19 am

    France will deliver Mistrals. If not earlier, they will absolutely deliver them in 2017, when Marine Le Pen will become French president.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:43 pm

    France was hoping to keep holding onto Mistral as either 1) a carrot to dangle over Russia's head over the Ukraine affair or (2) to hold out till this whole thing blows over. Looks like neither of these options is now gonna be the case.
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    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:38 am

    Second Mistral-class ship built by France for Russia floated out
    12:46 November 21, 2014 Interfax

    The second Mistral-class helicopter carrier currently under construction at a shipyard in Saint Nazaire, France, for the Russian Navy has been floated out, a military-diplomatic source told Interfax-AVN on Friday.

    "The helicopter carrier Sevastopol was floated out at 3:00 a.m. local time on Friday," the source said.

    On Thursday, the first Mistral-type helicopter carrier, the Vladivostok, was transferred to the opposite shore of the port and was moored alongside the dry cargo carrier Bartholomeus, he said.

    Russian state arms trader Rosoboronexport and France's DCNS signed a contract to build two Mistral-class helicopter carriers in June 2011. St. Petersburg-based Baltiysky Zavod, part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, built the sterns. The STX France Saint Nazaire shipyard attached the sterns to the bows and put the finishing touches to the ships.

    However, French President Francois Hollande said this September that a final decision regarding the delivery of Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia would be made in late October and would depend on how events in Ukraine developed. He emphasized that the decision would be determined by the presence of a ceasefire and a political agreement between the parties involved in the Ukrainian conflict.

    Nevertheless, the ongoing sanctions on Russia allow for the execution of previous military-technological contracts. A number of NATO countries, primarily the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany and Poland, have repeatedly tried to persuade France not to deliver the Mistral-class ships to Russia.

    The Mistral-class helicopter carrier is 199 meters long and 32 meters wide. Its height at the flight deck is 27 meters, its draught is 6.42 meters and it has a displacement of 22,600 tonnes. The vessel can move at up to 18.5 knots. It has a crew of 177 people, and it can carry 481 passengers.

    As many as 400 Russian Navy sailors, who were trained to operate Mistral-class helicopter carriers, are currently awaiting the transfer of the first such ship, the Vladivostok, to the Russian Navy in Saint Nazaire. They are staying on board the training ship Smolny.

    Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - http://rbth.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/second_mistral-class_ship_built_by_france_for_russia_floated_out_41575.html)
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    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:56 am

    Russia Appoints Mistral Commander for Transfer of Warship From France

    Russian Deputy Navy Commander Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov has been chosen to take charge of transferring the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier, the Vladivostok.

    MOSCOW, November 21 (Sputnik) – Russian Deputy Navy Commander Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov has been appointed to take command of transferring the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier, the Vladivostok, from France to Russia, a military diplomatic source told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    “The leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry has named Navy Vice Admiral Fedotenkov to take command on the transfer of the Vladivostok from Saint-Nazaire (France) to St. Petersburg (Russia),” the source said.

    Russia and France signed a $1.6-billion deal for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The ships, capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 70 armored vehicles and 450 troops, are expected to join Russia’s Pacific Fleet.

    The deal, however, has been at risk since the conflict in Ukraine started to escalate. The West, blaming Moscow for its alleged aggressive policy toward Ukraine has introduced several rounds of sanctions on Russia. In October, French President Francois Hollande threatened to suspend the deliveries of the ships to Russia.

    The handover of the first ship, the Vladivostok, was scheduled for November 14, but did not take place. Russia has condemned France's failure to deliver on its contractual obligations, saying Paris would have to pay a large penalty if the deal was cancelled.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:06 pm

    I have a feeling that the first Mistral class ship (Vladivostok) will be delivered very soon.
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:50 pm

    Well, wish the mess stuff can be finished and the ship is delivered as the deal.

    Anyway as far as i heard if Mistral deals fail, the penalty would worth more than the ship, i wonder whether it'll significantly hurt France.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:38 am

    Anyway as far as i heard if Mistral deals fail, the penalty would worth more than the ship, i wonder whether it'll significantly hurt France.

    Not just contract penalties... half the hull of the first ship was built in Russia so France will have to decide what to do with the actual ship itself and may have to buy the Russian built half from Russia...
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    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Anyway as far as i heard if Mistral deals fail, the penalty would worth more than the ship, i wonder whether it'll significantly hurt France.

    Not just contract penalties... half the hull of the first ship was built in Russia so France will have to decide what to do with the actual ship itself and may have to buy the Russian built half from Russia...

    The hydrodynamic driver and all the electronic system of the Mistral is depending on Russia. France cannot use these Mistral without software from Russia.

    That means thanks to pressure from the glorious US goverment, France is stabbing it owns body.
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    Mistral News thread - Page 21 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  runaway on Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:18 pm

    Well, then i suspect the ships will be rusting away at port...


    PARIS, November 25. /TASS/. French President Francois Hollande believes the current situation in Ukraine does not allow Paris to hand over the first Mistral helicopter carrier to Russia, the French government said in a statement on Tuesday.

    “The president of the Republic believes that the current situation in eastern Ukraine still does not allow the transfer of the first Mistral helicopter carrier,” the statement reads.

    “Therefore, he has recommended postponing the issue of studying the request for the needed permission for the export of the first helicopter carrier ship of the Russian Federation until new orders are given,” according to the statement.

    Russia is currently expecting the decision of Paris on the transfer of the first Mistral ship, the Vladivostok. If France fails to honor the contract due to West’s pressure, Paris will owe Moscow millions of euros in penalties


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    Mistral News thread - Page 21 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

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