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    Mistral News thread

    Flyingdutchman
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    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:10 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

    Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

    What consequences?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:00 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

    Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

    What consequences?

    A huge fine stipulated in the contract, that is in fact many times larger than the sum of money to deliver the Mistrals (because Moscow predicted their would be problems). Francois Hollande truly is an imbecile, so I'm not surprised that he's one of the least popular politicians in recent French political history.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:08 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

    Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

    What consequences?

    A huge fine stipulated in the contract, that is in fact many times larger than the sum of money to deliver the Mistrals (because Moscow predicted their would be problems). Francois Hollande truly is an imbecile, so I'm not surprised that he's one of the least popular politicians in recent French political history.
    I've recently heard that the minimum payment to Russia if the deal is cancelled, is ~3.8 billion... That would be pretty devastating, more so when they already built the ships. That being said, Russia could put that money to good use... Maybe a carrier, or a couple more Boreis with that money would sure as heck send a message!  Twisted Evil
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:19 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/753719

    Once again france, Ukraine is not a stipulation in the contract. Point of a contract is you cant change it upon will and if there is a date set for delivory, they cant change it over something none related. If EU wants to out pressure on Russia, Russia needs to apply pressure back and tell france either delivor it on time or face the consequences. France then will show their true face then.

    What consequences?

    Consequences are:

    -Payback for going against contract is much more than the ships value
    -Losing the image of being a trustworthy supplier. Could damage image and thus prevent further sales in the future from Russia and other countries.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:51 am

    I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future. I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships. Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?
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    Post  Mike E on Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:58 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future.  I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships.  Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?
    Yeah, cause wiki is such a great source... In all honesty, the armament of the Russian Mistrals appears to be highly secretive, though I doubt they'd resort to -630's. Anyone know more on this subject?

    I think that it will be equipped with the Palash (at least) myself, as RU Navy is using them on the Gorshkov. A couple of them plus a Pantsir-M or 9M100 system of some kind would be more than adequate...

    EDIT; From what I just found, it will have two Palash CIWS, two Gibka launchers, two twin-barreled A-220M guns, and two AK-630's... If this is true, that would add up to a pretty capable defensive armament. Can this be confirmed?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:36 am

    Wiki is just amateur speculation that actually sounds just like the Russian equivalent of the French armament.

    And the Russians are known to give their ships good armaments.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:03 am

    GarryB wrote:Wiki is just amateur speculation that actually sounds just like the Russian equivalent of the French armament.

    And the Russians are known to give their ships good armaments.

    What about Russian Wikipedia ?
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:07 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Wiki is just amateur speculation that actually sounds just like the Russian equivalent of the French armament.

    And the Russians are known to give their ships good armaments.

    What about Russian Wikipedia ?

    It wouldn't be any better... The problem is the terrible editors + open source "design". Anyone who has access to the site can change it.

    GarryB is right about the "equivalent" part. That being said, it is still hard to find good info on the armament.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:05 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I read in wikipedia that the mistral will only have AK-630 and seperate gibka launchers . Although its still better than brownings this ISN'T a step into the future.  I guess garry's and my excpectations for a pantsyr or kashtan armed mistral were wrong. I don 't understand why the russians of all people would choose such a minimalistic AA armament approach for one of their most important ships.  Couldn't they just slapped on a palash if space was a concern(which I serously doubt)?

    This has been known for a while.

    You might get Duet if you have been extra good this year, but don't count on it.

    I expect Gibka and AK-630.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:04 am

    I remember a poster than included Gibka, but it also included a 57mm gun turret and Palma.

    Mistral News thread - Page 20 Cwxo1710

    Translations?
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:10 am

    It has a radar positiv-ME1, palash ciws,gibka. Want me to translate further?
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:35 am

    OK GarryB, that matches up with what I found... Good!

    russia russia russia
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:13 am

    Want me to translate further?

    The critical part... bottom left... last line...

    Does it say sources: and then name manufacturers of the weapons?

    I can tell it is Itar-TASS.

    What I want to know is is this official or just speculation...

    BTW Palma with laser homing missiles and 30mm gatlings, plus a 57mm gun turret with laser homing shells offers quite effective defence, with Gibka and Duet.... any attacking threat would face several significant barriers to reaching these ships.

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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Want me to translate further?

    The critical part... bottom left... last line...

    Does it say sources: and then name manufacturers of the weapons?

    I can tell it is Itar-TASS.

    What I want to know is is this official or just speculation...

    BTW Palma with laser homing missiles and 30mm gatlings, plus a 57mm gun turret with laser homing shells offers quite effective defence, with Gibka and Duet.... any attacking threat would face several significant barriers to reaching these ships.


    Yes, it states the sources the source kbtochmash.ru they produce Palma
    http://www.kbtochmash.ru/productions-service/production/

    typhoon-jsc.ru produces the Positive-ME1 radar.
    http://typhoon-jsc.ru/index.php/production-and-services/special-purpose/pozitiv-me1

    and ratep.ru does not give much information

    So yes this are not just speculations but manufactorers numbers.
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    Mistral News thread - Page 20 Empty Mistral class ships

    Post  par far on Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:00 am

    What technology, weapons and Helicopters does Russia plan on using for the Mistral class ships(assuming Russia gets them?

    Which Fleet will get the Mistral class ships?

    What part of the world will Russia use the Mistral class in?
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:17 am

    AFAIK, when it comes to weapons, it will have....  Two Palash CIWS, two Gibka launchers, two twin-barreled A-220M guns, and two AK-630's 

    So it looks to be a capable defensive armament. If I'm wrong, it will have one of each system.
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:29 am

    It will have Ak-630 and Gibka, and probably nothing else.

    The big technology (apart from building process) that is supposed to come with them is Zenit.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:33 am

    TR1 wrote:It will have Ak-630 and Gibka, and probably nothing else.

    The big technology (apart from building process) that is supposed to come with them is Zenit.
    Sources and the picture-thingy GarryB posted suggest otherwise, though the AK-630 and Gibka are the only confirmed weapons so far. We'll need to wait on this one, there is a lack of information to say the least!
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:40 am

    Those sources are typical infographics that are always innacurate as hell. Is there any good source that points to it?
    The graphics made by the French builder shows the Russian spec ship with only Ak-630 and Gibka.

    For example, can you show me that double barell A-220M exists? Burevestnik has only started testing the single barrel version, and it has not even been mounted on any vessel yet. The Mistrals contract wise are/were supposed to be handed over very soon, I doubt they planned to get the ships, then wait years for new weapons to become available, before commissioning the ship.

    It doesn't add up. But Gibka and good old AK-630 does.
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:47 am

    TR1 wrote:Those sources are typical infographics that are always innacurate as hell. Is there any good source that points to it?
    The graphics made by the French builder shows the Russian spec ship with only Ak-630 and Gibka.

    For example, can you show me that double barell A-220M exists? Burevestnik has only started testing the single barrel version, and it has not even been mounted on any vessel yet. The Mistrals contract wise are/were supposed to be handed over very soon, I doubt they planned to get the ships, then wait years for new weapons to become available, before commissioning the ship.

    It doesn't add up. But Gibka and good old AK-630 does. 
    Here we go again...

    And? Who said the French builder is aware of the exact armament? The Palash's can be mounted with ease, probably even with modifications to the ship...

    Nope, but can you show me that is doesn't exist? A double-barreled variant wouldn't be hard to design or produce when the original is completed. This could be an add-on over time kind of thing anyway.

    It doesn't add up... That is the Russian equivalent of the Frenchs' armament and not much more.
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:19 am

    I'll be sure to bump this when the armament is exactly as I claim it will be.
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    Post  Mike E on Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:41 am

    TR1 wrote:I'll be sure to bump this when the armament is exactly as I claim it will be.
    Ok! Not saying it isn't Gibka + AK-630, as I said earlier, those two are just about confirmed. The others seem to be on-board as well, only time will tell...
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    Post  Werewolf on Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:01 am

    There is plenty of space on the Mistral and russia is not under arming their weapon plattforms like other countries do, russia is prone of using lot of weaponary on vessels.
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    Post  Mike E on Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:50 pm

    Kremlin Threatens to Sue France Over Possible Mistral Contract Breach

    SOCHI, October 23 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will sue France if Paris refuses to honor a contract on construction of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers for the Russian Navy, Kremlin chief of staff Sergei Ivanov said Thursday.
    "We will file a lawsuit and demand compensation [if the contract is not fulfilled], as it's commonly done in a civilized world," Ivanov told reporters.
    "It's up to Paris to decide whether to honor thecontract or not," he said.
    "We share long-running history of Russian-French relations, and we would not want to see these relations being sacrificed for the sake of fleeting [political] trends, Ivanov added.
    Russia and France signed a 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion at the current exchange rate) deal for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The first carrier, the Vladivostok, is expected in Russia by the end of 2014. The second ship, the Sevastopol, is supposed to arrive in 2015.
    The completion of the deal has been at risk since the West started implementing targeted economic sanctions against Russia over the Ukrainian crisis.
    In September, French President Francois Hollande threatened to suspend the ships' delivery over Russia's alleged involvement in the conflict in Ukraine, which Moscow has repeatedly denied.
    Hollande later stated he would make a decision on the ships' delivery in late October. The French president said that the delivery of the ships would be dependent on two conditions: an observed ceasefire in Ukraine and a political settlement of the conflict.
    On September 30, deputy director general at Russia's state arms exporter Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov said Russia and France could sign the act on delivering the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia in late October or early November.

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