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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    powered by an electric motor can fly silently as well

    Deep behind enemy lines you want a fast UAV so normal fuelled motor with module that glides down to specific location is cheaper and faster without expensive heavy batteries.



    Ekhm 120km/h of Orion is not particularly fast. And its combustion engine which on low altitude one can hear pretty well. . If something flies with 800 km/h then is unlikely a glider. Besides drones dont have to be purely electric. Can be hybrid too.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:04 am

    The drone I was referring to is to supply special forces deep behind enemy lines. It is a modular system with a part that carries a glide module that holds the ammo and fuel and water and whatever else the forward deployed unit requires. the glide module might be released 10km away from the position of the troops it is supplying while the glide module delivers the cargo.

    If its last portion of flight is a silent glide then why would it need to be battery powered?

    I never mentioned any design name or maker name so what are you talking about?

    A drone used to deliver supplies to forward deployed troops covertly is hardly going to fly at low level all the way with some noisy engine to give away their position...

    Troops somewhere like Afghanistan half way up a mountain watching an enemy base and transmitting information is not going to appreciate some noisy slow drone flying in and landing next to them and giving away their position.

    On the other hand a drone that flys at high altitude and releases a glider that flys in an lands directly on their position in the middle of the night with no engine noise would be a useful way to resupply a unit.

    They might deliver water or ammo or food or they might deliver a heavy calibre rifle or ATGM to deal with a threat that was not previously anticipated, or could not be carried up the mountain they are on covertly.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:21 pm


    MiG is working on strike drones between 1 and 15 ton weight

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2949903.html
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:23 am

    GarryB wrote:The drone I was referring to is to supply special forces deep behind enemy lines. It is a modular system with a part that carries a glide module that holds the ammo and fuel and water and whatever else the forward deployed unit requires. the glide module might be released 10km away from the position of the troops it is supplying while the glide module delivers the cargo.

    If its last portion of flight is a silent glide then why would it need to be battery powered?

    Whatever has engine flies in more controllable way. Can make ups downs, make second round in landing place and has chance to return with anything if needed.  



    GarryB wrote:
    I never mentioned any design name or maker name so what are you talking about?


    But I did, the real one in Russian AF called Orion.




    GarryB wrote:
    A drone used to deliver supplies to forward deployed troops covertly is hardly going to fly at low level all the way with some noisy engine to give away their position...

    Troops somewhere like Afghanistan half way up a mountain watching an enemy base and transmitting information is not going to appreciate some noisy slow drone flying in and landing next to them and giving away their position.

    On the other hand a drone that flys at high altitude and releases a glider that flys in an lands directly on their position in the middle of the night with no engine noise would be a useful way to resupply a unit.


    Electrical motor lets you fly low and virtually noiseless. Unlike high flying drone it is harder to spot on couple of meters above ground.



    GarryB wrote:

    They might deliver water or ammo or food or they might deliver a heavy calibre rifle or ATGM to deal with a threat that was not previously anticipated, or could not be carried up the mountain they are on covertly.

    this is not the question of glider ot powered but payload and concept of use right?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    MiG is working on strike drones between 1 and 15 ton weight

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2949903.html


    Most important part:

    DUBAI, November 14th. / TASS /. The Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG is working to create shock and reconnaissance drones weighing from 1 to 15 tons, their prototypes will appear in the coming years Laughing Laughing Laughing . This was announced on Tuesday by the official representative of the corporation Anastasia Kravchenko at the exhibition Dubai Airshow 2017.
    "These are reconnaissance and strike targets, different classes for different tasks," she said, answering the relevant question.
    Kravchenko added that prototype drones will be created "in the coming years." These devices will be in three categories - from one ton to five, from five to ten and from ten to fifteen.

    According to her, domestic engines are being developed for all classes of unmanned vehicles.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    Yup, couple of yearscso 2? 5? 10? 15?

    But good that at least those are not equipped with GE engines like MS-21 Smile
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:39 am

    MiG is jumping to the game rather late. Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner. Engine wise is no different either as they are using Russian engines for the new drones anyway.

    As for the MS-21, well, technically the PD-14 engine was given boost for it, as the MS-21 is to be given 2 kinds of engines, PD-14 and GE. One of Russia's carriers is the first customer for MS-21 with PD-14.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:34 am

    miketheterrible wrote:MiG is jumping to the game rather late.  Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner.  

    I think thet MiG/Sukhoi are working on jet drones so different class then Orion & CO

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:26 am

    Whatever has engine flies in more controllable way. Can make ups downs, make second round in landing place and has chance to return with anything if needed.

    An electric engine would need batteries and would be very slow and lack range.

    It would not land as much as crash in a controlled way... like a parachute drop of supplies which is what it really is.

    If you want it to return send a helicopter.

    Electrical motor lets you fly low and virtually noiseless.

    And really slowly over relatively short range and not with a particularly heavy payload.

    Unlike high flying drone it is harder to spot on couple of meters above ground.

    It wont get within 20km of the supply position so there is little chance of it being seen or heard.

    this is not the question of glider ot powered but payload and concept of use right?

    It is about supporting a covert position in a way that makes it remain covert deep behind enemy lines.

    A low flying slow battery powered UAV is just too slow and vulnerable. A higher flying faster drone that releases its payload 10-20km away from the covert position that can glide to the location in the dark is the best option.

    Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner.

    They are going to end up with hundreds of different UAVs and UCAVs in different weight classes from hand held to bigger than their heavy recon planes like the M17. Each service is going to need some of very different types and even civilian forces in Russia will need plenty too... there is plenty of scope for lots of makers to get involved here.
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    Post  Azi Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:18 pm

    Electrical motor for UAV makes sense only with high span of wings and high efficient solar cells on it. So its possible to let a drone fly for weeks without landing. Only capacitors or batteries without solar cells would make the UAV too heavy. Simply google pictures for "solar UAV".

    By the way...
    High efficiency solar cells are existing, they are be used on satellites, but they are expensive, really expensive. A whole fleet of solar UAVs with high efficient solar cells would be expensive. With normal solar cells the span would be higher, nearly double.

    A electric UAV makes sense for long time observation, I doubt it would be usefull for heavy warfare zone.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:14 am

    Azi wrote:Electrical motor for UAV makes sense only with high span of wings and high efficient solar cells on it. So its possible to let a drone fly for weeks without landing. Only capacitors or batteries without solar cells would make the UAV too heavy. Simply google pictures for "solar UAV".


    GarryB wrote:
    An electric engine would need batteries and would be very slow and lack range.

    +

    And really slowly over relatively short range and not with a particularly heavy payload.








    Oh really? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil  solar batteries or chemical ones is just abput desnity of enrgy right? then hybrig seems to be a good solution. Silent part can be flown on batteries for example.  Razz  Razz  Razz
    http://news.mit.edu/2017/hybrid-drones-carry-heavier-payloads-greater-distances-0804


    []
    Over the past several years, Top Flight has continued to develop major innovations for the microscale hybrid engine concept, called a “digital gearbox.” Engines for vertical takeoff aircraft, such as helicopters, are complex and difficult to manage, consisting of thousands of mechanical parts. Top Flight’s digital gearbox behaves like those systems but uses electricity to control everything. Gasoline runs to a small generator, creating electric power, which the digital gearbox controls and sends in pulses to the electric motors and electronics. This makes the powering flight much simpler and more efficient, Phan says.
    “By pulsing the electricity to the motors, we can control the amount of torque and revolutions per minute of the motor,” Phan says. “We can … achieve the same benefits as a traditional mechanical transmission system, but it’s much more efficient, cost-effective, and scalable.”

    mmediate applications for Top Flight’s drone capabilities may include inspecting infrastructure in remote areas. Some U.S. utilities companies are already tasking drones with inspecting power lines and pipelines that go without routine inspection due to their remote locations. Top Flight’s drones could greatly increase the range of those drones while reducing costs and improving worker safety. They could also help pre- and post-disaster recovery efforts by surveying damage to the networks after natural disasters.
    As for delivery drones, Phan says Top Flight can increase the overall value related to increased range. Amazon, Google, UPS, and other large international firms are developing drone-based solutions that can deliver packages to consumer doorsteps. But they’re restricted to carrying, say, a single textbook and maybe 30 minutes of battery life, limiting their range.
    “By increasing the range by an order of magnitude, you can capture 100 times more value, due to the increased area coverage, compared to traditional battery drone systems,” Phan says. “[Delivery drones] are not just a gimmick. They’re very feasible soon.”
    Top Flight’s drones also hold promise for improved military missions, Phan says. A flock of 1,000 small drones could be deployed for longer times to gather reconnaissance data at a cost similar that of a single large military aircraft.
    When Top Flight completes its 100-kilowatt hybrid electric engine, that same concept could also be used to haul, say, barrels of oil, divided into smaller amounts for military convoys in dangerous zones. Generally, this type of shipping is expensive and hazardous due to transportation costs and various risks on the road. “Instead of carrying really big loads in the tons, you use many drones to carry small loads in the 100-kilogram increments, like a pack of mules,” Phan says.
    Currently, Top Flight uses an internal combustion engine in its microscale hybrid power systems. Moving forward, the company aims to hybridize gas turbine engines, which are used to power jets and helicopters. “Heat and vibration issues will be magnified, but at the same time they’re much more powerful and almost 100 percent more energy efficient than comparably-sized internal combustion engines,” Phan says. “That’s our next challenge.”


    []

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:26 am

    Yeah, that is really nice but I am talking about practical systems for Russia.

    Sure they have developed new solar panels that are more efficient and very cheap... it is on the technology thread where they said something like 22 percent efficiency compared with normal 9 percent efficiency with a new material that is cheap.... but I repeat again...

    Deep behind enemy lines and covert resupply at NIGHT.

    A high flying fast aircraft that gets to 10-20km from the op site and releases a supply of weapons or ammo or equipment or water or whatever which then glides in to the op site silently.

    There are plenty of other things they could use electric motors and solar cells for.... in fact the combination of fuel cells and solar panels and electric motors and an air ship would be very useful.... but in this case night operation and deep behind enemy lines suggests a combustion engine and a glider as the simplest and cheapest and easiest options.
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    Post  Project Canada Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:33 pm

    Russia is lagging behind in the development of military drones in five years

    Russia is lagging behind in the development of military drones from the leading producer countries for about five years, said RIA Novosti head of the center for advanced research group "Kronstadt" Vladimir Voronov.
    A backlog of about five years. Unfortunately, there are a number of issues in the health industry. Unmanned system — it's not only the aircraft but also communication, control system and a number of other high technologies. The whole set of them needs to be at a high level so that the product was at the same level," — said the ravens.

    According to him, without a state program to catch up is impossible.

    "Our competitors are not standing still. Group "Kronstadt" reduces this lag. Our investor Sistema strongly supports our work, so that more demand from them impossible. If the state wants it to be, we are here," — said the ravens.
    As previously reported, according to the forecast Voronov, the beginning of cargo transportation in Russia with the help of drones could begin in two years, and the transportation of people may begin after 2025.

    Currently in Russia on creation of complexes of unmanned aerial vehicles operate four companies: MiG, Sukhoi, Simonov design Bureau and a group of "Kronstadt". They develop a range of reconnaissance and strike drones weighing from 1 to 20 tons.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:25 pm

    It became known about the armament of the Russian supersonic drone

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201802261325-y16f.htm

    A promising supersonic drone aircraft will carry controlled and unguided aircraft weapons, said deputy head of the research department of the Central Research Institute of the Air Force Alexander Nemov.

    In the new issue of the program "Military Acceptance," he talked about the creation in Russia of a long-range unmanned vehicle that could fly like a cruise missile.

    "At present, the development of a long-range unmanned system is underway, which will be able to perform an automatic low-altitude supersonic flight," he said.

    According to Nemov, the new UAV can hit both stationary and mobile targets in operational strategic depth with the help of guided and unguided missiles.

    Nice I wonder if from will be rather closer to Tu-143 then MiG Scat
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:04 pm

    Holy shit... low altitude supersonic flight... that is very very impressive....

    Most things are not supersonic at low level or if they are they are not supersonic for very long...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:16 pm

    Russian high-speed helicopter will receive an unmanned version

    https://rg.ru/2018/02/26/reg-cfo/skorostnoj-vertolet-rf-poluchit-bespilotnuiu-versiiu.html

    A promising Russian high-speed helicopter can get an unmanned version. This "Star" was informed by Pavel Shchavelev, head of the Research Institute of Airborne Radio Equipment and Aircraft of the Central Research Institute of the Air Force of the Russian Defense Ministry, where they are working on a new car.

    The head of the Air Force Institute noted that both a classic version with a crew and an unmanned complex were being developed. They will act in the interests of the Army, Pavel Shchavelev said.

    As Sergei Chemezov, the head of Rostek, reported earlier, it is planned that the prototype of a prospective helicopter will first rise to the sky in 2019. Its speed will be 400 kilometers per hour.






    GarryB wrote:Holy shit... low altitude supersonic flight... that is very very impressive....

    Most things are not supersonic at low level or if they are they are not supersonic for very long...

    In vid they say that this drone is supposed to have a "strategic depth" . Whatever this means. This text is copied form description. On vid I am not so sure if this military was not talking about "supersonic flight" and "low level terrain following like cruise missiles" but not necessarily all together.

    But if so then level of AI is incredibly high ... imagine current autonomous cars...or drones all is very slow.

    BTW aircraft carrie's usage woul dbe very interesting Smile
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    Post  George1 Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:06 am

    Unmanned aerial vehicles "Forpost" in the aviation of the Baltic Fleet

    Curious official material of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation of March 21, 2018 on the use of unmanned aerial vehicles "Forpost" (licensed Israeli IAI Searcher Mk 2) in the aviation of the Baltic Fleet in the Kaliningrad region. The material reported that the calculations of the unit of the Baltic Fleet UAV are learning to correct the fire of ship artillery.

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 28 5316035_original

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 28 5316577_original

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3130909.html
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    Post  George1 Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:32 am

    Official photo of the unmanned aerial vehicle "Orion" russia

    OOO "Kronstadt Group" distributed the official photo of the first prototype of the unmanned aerial vehicle "Orion" undergoing tests.

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 28 5329279_original

    On the bmpd side, we recall that the group "Kronshtadt" (St. Petersburg, which was called Transas until 2015), is part of the AFK Sistema in the development work (R & D) "Inohodets" in the development of the Orion UAV. . The created UAV belongs to the class of medium-altitude apparatus of long flight duration. It is assumed that the maximum duration of the flight will be at least 24 hours, and the ceiling - about 8000 meters.

    In October 2011, the Russian Ministry of Defense entered into a contract with the Transas company for the development of the "Inohodets" experimental design for the creation of a reconnaissance UAV with a mass of about 1 ton. In 2015, at MAKS-2015, the former president of the Transas group of companies Nikolai Lebedev said that the actual takeoff weight of the Orion UAV is 1,200 kilograms, the payload weight is 300 kilograms. According to the known data, the flight tests of the first prototype UAV "Orion" were launched in the spring of 2016.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3135974.html
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    Post  Guest Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:03 am

    https://samoletchik.livejournal.com/90914.html

    They released quite alot photos some months ago, some from the testings too
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    Post  jaguar_br Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:49 pm

    Is there any plan for anarmed version of this drone (Orion)?
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:45 pm

    I believe it is intended to be armed... occasionally you see pods under the wings that look sort of weapon like, but not any weapon I recognise though they might just be sensor pods.

    The payload bay on the belly looks more for sensors like cameras or radar or other equipment.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:41 pm

    Why is it that Russia can create the software to coordinate a swarm of maneuverable sea skimming supersonic AShMs in the 80s but its still impossible to create the software for a UAV to drop and LGB or shoot a kornet? Why could it create armed tank drones but not an armed UAV?
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:04 am

    In many ways they already had the software... VKO MiG-23s could be guided to an interception point with ground control entering the data directly into their autopilots... no voice commands were needed... all the pilot had to do was launch the missiles after confirming the target... with a camera on board showing the ground control unit what the pilot could see they could have launched it themselves.

    The problem is that they are in no hurry to have automated murder machines like the US and UK.

    Unmanned vehicles are useful for collecting information but if you load them up with weapons you shorten their range, make operations and handling more difficult, and greatly increase the costs...

    Instead of loading them up with weapons they might or might not use it makes more sense to pair them up with armed platforms.

    Syria is a good example where artillery or bomber aircraft or cruise missile attacks benefit from up to date information from UAVs.

    They could easily make a UCAV that could carry a couple of bombs but after the first target then they need to return to base to rearm.

    When another platform delivers the weapons the recon asset can remain on station and monitor the results and call in follow up strikes if needed.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:45 pm

    So basically Russia is prepared for a conventional war where UCAVs arent important, and ithe US has much lighter materials and powerful drone engines that make the predator have such long range, while Russia doesnt?
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    Post  Hole Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:17 pm

    The Predator was a pure reconnaissance drone till some General said "Let´s put a few bombs on it, so we can kill brown people."

    Russia is developing UCAV´s: Okhotnik (20 tons) and Gonshchik (5 tons).
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    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:15 am

    So basically Russia is prepared for a conventional war where UCAVs arent important, and ithe US has much lighter materials and powerful drone engines that make the predator have such long range, while Russia doesnt?

    Russia could easily reduce the performance of the few drones they use operationally by adding weapons to them, but at the moment their aircraft, which are not as expensive to run as the US aircraft are simpler cheaper options to putting weapons on target when the UAVs detect the target.

    The Russians are working on a wide range of specialised weapons for UAVs to carry... likely very small guided bombs that could probably be carried in large numbers by a range of small aircraft manned or unmanned... there is just no urgency for them to be able to kill people in other countries like the US does.

    The value of looking for threats and targets is much greater than being able to shoot at anything that moves as soon as you see it.

    Unlike the US, everything the Russians attack in Syria is a hospital or a school... or a childrens hospital... so there is plenty of time to engage the targets when they need to... they are everywhere in Syria.

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