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    Russian Gun Artillery Thread

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 07, 2023 12:44 pm

    This is Ukraine but it fits here as well

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    Robert.V


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    Post  Robert.V Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:56 pm

    Do they mean rocket assisted. or regular ones. Because rocket assisted rounds had that range.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:33 pm

    Its a base bleed round (OF61) with a maximum range of 29 km.

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    Post  Robert.V Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:56 pm

    Mir wrote:Its a base bleed round (OF61) with a maximum range of 29 km.

    That's right! I forgot about that one on account of it being frozen in development multiple times. Wasn't it supposed to have been induced into service like back in 2015-17 ? So they only started to produces it now ?
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:14 pm

    To my knowledge it was introduced into service during the period you mentioned. Perhaps the specific unit only received the BB rounds recently?

    Russian sources I just checked all mention the OF61 as available but no intro date.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Does anyone have any information on the Krasnopol type guided missiles using GLONASS guidance in terms of extended range, because like the Excalibr they could be fired at full velocity and therefore achieve closer to max flight range.
    With zero knowledge of Russian this is the latest that I could find. Krasnpol-D is being used.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:46 am

    So if they rejected it because it lacked range it brings to question why they wanted the larger calibre.

    Did they want longer range and a heavier shell or are they just not happy with the lack of range and the bigger shell is good enough?

    I would think bringing back a recoil spade and perhaps a longer recoilling gun might make 152mm guns practical... if you look at the truck mounted and vehicle mounted 152mm guns above they are not super heavy vehicles but do seem to be using recoil spades to transfer recoil into the ground directly.

    They are working on new 170-180km range 152mm artillery rounds for naval use, which would require assistance in the form of base bleed and perhaps ramjet propulsion as well as a subcalibre HE projectile, so a light vehicle might be able to fire such rounds from a shorter lower recoil gun to perhaps 50-60km maybe?

    With zero knowledge of Russian this is the latest that I could find. Krasnpol-D is being used.

    Nice. Considering the normal range of the gun 43km is actually a very good result for that gun.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:56 am

    Excalibur's max range is misleading. Excalibur does not have a SAL seeker until the latest variants - and those that do lose the range advantage to Krasnopol.

    As it is GPS guided Excaliburs have the effectiveness of a wet fart in Ukraine. Can't be used against moving targets and EW denies easy hits against static targets.

    They're supposed to give Ukraine that valuable deep strike capability but all they are hitting are abandoned Russian tanks at the periphery of Russian EW coverage.

    Sad and low energy type of shit.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:48 pm

    Didn't want to create a new thread so here is a video about the Vasilek 82mm automatic mortar:

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    Post  limb Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:10 pm

    lyle6 wrote:Excalibur's max range is misleading. Excalibur does not have a SAL seeker until the latest variants - and those that do lose the range advantage to Krasnopol.

    As it is GPS guided Excaliburs have the effectiveness of a wet fart in Ukraine. Can't be used against moving targets and EW denies easy hits against static targets.

    They're supposed to give Ukraine that valuable deep strike capability but all they are hitting are abandoned Russian tanks at the periphery of Russian EW coverage.

    Sad and low energy type of shit.


    I mean it isnt much of a problem since the russian army is pretty static like here.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:29 pm

    Loving the nazi propaganda videos I see... I am sure your grandmother is proud.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:24 pm

    The Rostec company has completed state tests of the first Malva wheeled howitzer for the Russian army.

    The first in the Russian Federation wheeled self-propelled howitzer "Malva" is being prepared for deliveries to the troops. This was announced by the industrial director of the cluster of weapons, ammunition and special chemicals of Rostec Bekhan Ozdoev.

    The "Malva" howitzer, thanks to the wheeled chassis, is able to quickly turn around in position and leave it, avoiding return fire, which is very important in counter-battery combat. This is a modern and powerful weapon that can be used to destroy almost any objects at a distance of more than 24 km.

    The rate of fire of the howitzer is more than seven rounds per minute, and the ammunition consists of several dozen shells.

    #source
    @Slavyangrad

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    Post  xeno Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:14 am

    Russian Gun Artillery Thread - Page 27 Ee_2e110

    Russian MOD loves light tracked SPG instead of light wheeled SPG. They would rather restart a project suspended 30 years age in such a rapid speed...
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:14 am

    I heard that the piece is meant for battalion-level artillery, which at the moment Russia critically needs. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) the losses in Ukraine consisted of a significant portion of battalion guns and somehow the revived 2S18 fills the niche.

    I don't know if the revived 2S18 manages to fix all the issues found during the Soviet times, for example the inferior range of the gun.
    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:31 am

    higurashihougi wrote:I heard that the piece is meant for battalion-level artillery, which at the moment Russia critically needs. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) the losses in Ukraine consisted of a significant portion of battalion guns and somehow the revived 2S18 fills the niche.

    I don't know if the revived 2S18 manages to fix all the issues found during the Soviet times, for example the inferior range of the gun.

    Still is problem, for that gun, small range...they need to go in different direction and produced malka in great numbers but with koalitia guns not MstaS gun...Malka still have small range compair to the nato wheeled arilery...26km.is short for today standards...they need at least 35-40km.range for their arilery if they wanna make hell for ukrainians....

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    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:29 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:I heard that the piece is meant for battalion-level artillery, which at the moment Russia critically needs. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) the losses in Ukraine consisted of a significant portion of battalion guns and somehow the revived 2S18 fills the niche.

    I don't know if the revived 2S18 manages to fix all the issues found during the Soviet times, for example the inferior range of the gun.

    Still is problem, for that gun, small range...they need to go in different direction and produced malka in great numbers but with koalitia guns not MstaS gun...Malka still have small range compair to the nato wheeled arilery...26km.is short for today standards...they need at least 35-40km.range for their arilery if they wanna make hell for ukrainians....

    Forgive my ignorance but for a battlion-level gun, how long the range is needed and do you think 2S18 is sufficient to fill that niche ?

    As far as I remember (hopefully my memory doesn't fail me) during the Soviet times the 2S18 was criticized for its short range, even shorter than the D-30, but then the USSR collapsed before addressing that issue. Wonder if Russian Army has done some improvements and modifications about it today ?

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:44 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    Still is problem, for that gun, small range...they need to go in different direction and produced malka in great numbers but with koalitia guns not MstaS gun...Malka still have small range compair to the nato wheeled arilery...26km.is short for today standards...they need at least 35-40km.range for their arilery if they wanna make hell for ukrainians....



    I think you are confusing Malva to Malka, Malva is the new wheeled arty with 152mm gun while Malka is tracked with 203mm gun, anyways, what is this NATO wheeled artillery that out range the Russians? are you referring to the Archer?

    I agree with arming the Malva with the Koalision gun, I initially think that Malva is the wheeled version of the Koalision SV but apparently, they decided to put the MSTA gun on it instead, perhaps the Koalision gun has not yet passed its tests? Whatever the circumstances are, i believe Russia needs to hurry up and invest more in developing better artillery systems to match and even surpass NATO Nazi capabilities.

    The updated 2S18 I think is a welcome development provided that they equip this with a longer ranged gun like the Koalision, the MSTA and Koalision SV both seemed too bulky, they needed a lighter artillery (for purpose of ease of transportation) like that of the Akatsia, but with a longer range (Krasnopol capable) to compete with more advanced NATO counterparts.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:08 pm

    They want to replace the 2S1 Gvozdikas with the 2S18s, neither has a better range than the other, so it's not a downgrade. Albeit with modern technologies perhaps they can improve the 2S18s performance.

    The Gvozdikas are simply getting too long in the tooth by now with wear & tear & damage, and probably have suffered a significant amount destroyed. The 2S18 also offers a larger calibre, although no doubt less round capacity.
    It's a stop-gap measure to replace losses, not some new generation whatever.

    The Malva meanwhile clearly cannot be used to replace the Gvozdikas and seems to be optimal for shoot & scoot tactics where a road network is available.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:04 pm

    Well, it has a better range than 2S1, comparable to 2S3 - but it was considered not enough back then. Or they just have runned out of cash, who knows dunno
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:11 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Well, it has a better range than 2S1, comparable to 2S3 - but it was considered not enough back then. Or they just have runned out of cash, who knows dunno

    It's not a matter of either

    There is a production line at the moment chugging out BMP-3 hulls. Maybe at a faster rate than needed to to expand the inventory, who knows.
    And a project to fit BMP-3 hulls with a 152mm cannon was already drawn up and implemented back in the 80s.

    What else do you want to replace destroyed or degraded to the point of uselessness 2S1s with in a pinch?

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:27 pm

    That's a valid point either - hull production is at a full swing.
    They can terminate one caliber of ammo due to that, which was considered ineffective back in the 80s already.
    Switching for 152mm cal of the most republican artillery units increased effectiveness greatly. Even if they were operating really old guns like D-20.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:58 pm

    Yup. Especially when the enemy has been rearming with 152/155mm systems such as the M777, Krab, Dana, Zuzana, CEASAR, PzH 2000, M109s.. I'm sure I missed some.
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    Post  ALAMO Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:01 pm

    Yeah, zoo consists of lots of species Laughing

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:49 pm

    xeno wrote:Russian Gun Artillery Thread - Page 27 Ee_2e110

    Russian MOD loves light tracked SPG instead of light wheeled SPG. They would rather restart a project suspended 30 years age in such a rapid speed...

    The original Pat-S failed mainly because its gun lacked the range to compete with the 2S1. But with modern metallurgy there is simply no way a modernized Pat-S won't smash the performance requirements.

    Just for reference the 2A82-1M has 50% higher muzzle energy than the vanilla 2A46, and there were about 30 years between the two.

    All things being equal its also more preferable to go for tracked over wheeled. Kind of hard to provide proper fire support if you can't keep pace with the tanks.

    ALAMO wrote:
    They can terminate one caliber of ammo due to that, which was considered ineffective back in the 80s already.
    The 122 mm caliber is not ineffective - especially not with real-time high precision fire correction that nullifies the weaker explosive effect by delivering rounds closer to the target.

    Instead the Russians are making a strategic choice to streamline logistics by taking out redundant calibers. And unfortunately the 122 mm is one: for the more common fire missions within 10 km the rifled mortar is more than adequate, and the 122 mm simply lacks the range to compete with the 152 mm in counter-battery missions.

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    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:49 pm

    PhSt wrote:


    I think you are confusing Malva to Malka, Malva is the new wheeled arty with 152mm gun while Malka is tracked with 203mm gun, anyways, what is this NATO wheeled artillery that out range the Russians? are you referring to the Archer?

    I agree with arming the Malva with the Koalision gun, I initially think that Malva is the wheeled version of the Koalision SV but apparently, they decided to put the MSTA gun on it instead, perhaps the Koalision gun has not yet passed its tests? Whatever the circumstances are, i believe Russia needs to hurry up and invest more in developing better artillery systems to match and even surpass NATO Nazi capabilities.

    The updated 2S18 I think is a welcome development provided that they equip this with a longer ranged gun like the Koalision, the MSTA and Koalision SV both seemed too bulky, they needed a lighter artillery (for purpose of ease of transportation) like that of the Akatsia, but with a longer range (Krasnopol capable) to compete with more advanced NATO counterparts.

    YES I was mistake it is Malva not Malka😃

    Ceasar, Archer, even our Nora B52 witch ist still no no for ukrainians, have batter range because it use l52 guns instead of l47...any tracked artilery Nato out range any russian in almsot the same caliber...

    If you wanna hit hard enemy from safe distance you need batter range, you need modern FCS not old scool targeting, you need system taht recons and. PBL can send wia satelite you coordinate withc you will use instant...Russian to not have that yet....only tehy have is great numbers of artilery so they suppres ukrainians in that...so yeah tehy need 30+km even 40km.range for their artilery, so she can operate from safe distance in support of their troops..they need more range for their smart munitions...

    They stay in 80s with range, and they still are there...

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