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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty very informative thanks

    Post  Gazputin Sun May 01, 2022 1:46 am

    yeak Zak hates Putin I'm aware of that

    rolling away from the launch complex makes a lot of sense too
    I was intrigued that they started the roll so soon after takeoff ...

    re fuel load
    I remember Rogozin talking about the new Angara pad at Vostochny
    he said it was built to withstand the equivalent of a tactical nuke missile strike .... most of it is underground
    he was talking about the fuel load of an A-5 going up on the pad ....

    (I also vividly remember that image of the fertiliser going up in Lebanon's Beirut harbour .... )



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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza Sun May 01, 2022 2:58 am

    Zak is a spiteful little jew russophobe, and like so many ex-Russians with an ideological axe-to-grind, he willingly does his part of the US civilizational attack on all things Russian. I liken his to teh space industries version of Masha Gessen, though he is not (to the best of my knowledge at least) a degenerate homosexual freakozoid like the Gessen creature.

    I'm curious as to what good info sits behind his sites paywall, but as a matter of principle, I refuse to send a single kopek in his direction. I would encourage others to do the same.

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    GarryB
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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB Sun May 01, 2022 9:35 am

    The simple fact of the matter is that for a rocket going into earth orbit vertical speed is not as important as eventual horizontal speed... they certainly have to climb to get to altitude but most of the climb is a horizontally accelerating rocket.

    Once in orbit to climb to a higher orbit they don't just point upwards and fire their rockets to climb to a higher orbit because they are actually moving sideways around the planet which is the direction they actually have to accelerate to climb to a higher orbit... firing rockets directly down towards the earth will push them up to a higher orbit but because they haven't increased their orbital speed they would drop back down below the orbit they were in and bob back and forth till they return to the orbit they were in before they fired their rockets.

    To climb or decend they have to fire the rockets backwards to increase their speed which will raise their orbit, or forwards to slow down to lower their orbital height.

    In the US space shuttle thrusters are used to turn the shuttle around so it is pointing backwards and then the main rocket engines are fired to slow the shuttle down to allow it to descend into the atmosphere... when they finish their burn the thrusters then turn the shuttle around so the heat shield and wings are presented to the atmosphere as it reenters to help slow the craft down further.

    Slow down too much and you come in almost vertically which means you are coming in too fast and will burn up, not enough and you will skip off the atmosphere and back into space and miss your landing window.
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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Angara 1.2 - did an extra altitude test .. on the side

    Post  Gazputin Tue May 03, 2022 1:15 pm

    "The observations of what appear to be the deorbit burn of the Angara-1.2 AM stage over western Europe at 2303 UTC Apr 29 aren't quite consistent with the TLEs from Kosmos-2555, and suggest that the AM stage raised its orbit to around 500 km apogee after deploying the sat.."


    picking up on Garry's horizontal flight model ....
    .... its a pity they didn't use the extra flight time to put that AM stage on a horizontal trajectory
    through the bedroom window of that vacuous moron Liv Truss ....


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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Angara tower at Vostochny - 11th floor in .... 6 to go

    Post  Gazputin Mon May 09, 2022 7:52 am

    Angara service tower in Vostochny: the 11th floor in place

    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/08/tour-de-service-angara-a-vostochny-le-11eme-etage-en-place/

    they are good at "big stuff" like this .... no question

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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Rogozin is on a roll

    Post  Gazputin Mon May 09, 2022 8:03 am

    pardon the pun ....

    the onsite tram service at Vostochny cosmodrome from the new airport to the launch complexes and the town of Tsiolkovsky
    (and apparently to the nearby Amur Gas plant and its new town - this bit to be funded by Gazprom)

    will be made by UKVZ .... a tram making enterprise that is a wholly owned subsidiary of .... Roscosmos

    an unmanned tram .... driven by an alien instead ?

    "The Roscosmos enterprise will begin assembling an unmanned tram at the end of the year"

    "Earlier, on January 8, the head of the UKVZ announced plans to develop a high-speed tram that will be used to transport employees of the Vostochny cosmodrome. The tram will be divided into three sections, while five-section trams will be used in the Tsiolkovsky district and at the cosmodrome."

    https://vpk.name/en/597921_the-roscosmos-enterprise-will-begin-assembling-an-unmanned-tram-at-the-end-of-the-year.html





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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Vostochny - Angara pad and new airport - ISS cosmonaut photos

    Post  Gazputin Thu May 12, 2022 8:51 am

    surprised the airport is progressing so fast ... but there it is

    4.4km long runway ..... pretty big ....
    allows for flyback Angara 1 stage(s) apparently

    map of the site for reference

    http://wikimapia.org/24635490/Vostochny-Cosmodrome#/photo/4942445

    and Kosmos photos ...

    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/11/le-cosmodrome-vostochny-vu-de-lespace/

    nowhere near the EU .... won't that piss them off ....
    "oooo burt we arrr soooo impor-tunt !"




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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Angara 1.2 already pretty useful

    Post  Gazputin Thu May 12, 2022 2:06 pm

    I thought this was interesting
    Russia will start recycling ICBMs in 2024 via Rokot-M with Ukrainian parts replaced

    that means for the foreseeable future Russia has 2x light launchers
    the Angara 1.2
    and the Soyuz-2.1v with the left over engines from the N1 - the NK-33 - how many are left ? not sure

    it does seem then that the Angara 1.2 is already a pretty useful rocket ...

    Rogozin on the "Colossal arsenal"
    has he gone "green" ? recycling ..... old ICBMs

    About the Rokot-M launcher
    "Rokot-M is a conversion missile with a Russian control system. Previously, the Rokot was equipped with a Ukrainian control system for the manufacture of the Kharkov Hartron company. All work on import substitution has been carried out and the Khrunichev Center (part of Roscosmos) is ready to start creating this complex.
    This is a very important subject, because we are using the colossal arsenal of the Strategic Nuclear Forces in order to provide on its base not scrap metal, but functional missiles that can reconstitute the orbital group of Roscosmos and the Russian Ministry of Defense."

    re the Soyuz 2.1v - they were saying that when the NK-33s run out they will switch to a less powerful version of the RD-191
    used in the Angara 1.2

    the Russians have the most amazing parts bins to play with .... compared to .....


    meanwhile in the UK "space command"
    they are launching cubesats from under the wing of old 747s .....

    cubesats are about the same size as a toaster .... seems very apt to me

    "The launch is carried out in the interests of the British military. "
    "Space technology is critically important in the development of measures in the field of defense, and the launch of Prometheus-2 represents another step forward on the way to its own space program," said British Deputy Secretary of Defense Jeremy Queen.

    what a load of delusional drivel ....

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    GarryB
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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB Fri May 13, 2022 1:26 am

    The advantage of using recycled ICBMs is in 5 years time when the extended new start treaty needs to be replaced and the US gets all pissy and demands Chinese missiles and Russian missiles get counted together but UK and French and Israeli missiles are missiles of soverign countries and therefore can't be counted with US missiles and of course thunderbird and Poseidon have to all be added to numbers too, then of course Russia will have to say no... so the natural result will be a missile race to make the other side want to get some limit...

    During the arms race madness when both sides are making as many ICBMs as they can the Russians can be happy that if any agreement is eventually signed they can use all these ICBMs and perhaps SLBMs as satellite launchers rather than just scrapping them.

    The SS-19 missiles had a good record for reliability so they were popular as ROKOT launchers.... they likely have a few left to make this Russification worth while.

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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty new Angara A-5 headed to Plesetsk

    Post  Gazputin Sat May 14, 2022 3:19 am

    only problem with having lots of recyclable ICBMs it makes your "domestic" small rocket developers payback on any project impossible
    so to me these lightweight launchers are mostly a waste of capital in Russia

    I do think though that flyback Krylo-SV rocket/UAV mutation is worth pursuing - if only to create interesting work for your people
    who is funding it ? .... you can bet it is the military

    meanwhile ...

    Rogozin has been out and about in Moscow lately it seems ... a few visits

    Khrunichev sending another Angara A-5 to Plesetsk (made in Omsk but quality checked at Khrunichev as I understand it)
    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/13/un-nouvel-exemplaire-du-lanceur-lourd-angara-a5-a-ete-envoye-vers-le-cosmodrome-de-plesetsk/

    probably to be launched around October ?

    meanwhile .... slightly off topic

    whilist in Moskva ... Rogozin dropped into Mikron ..... is his new tailor the guy that does Kim Jong-Un's clothes ?
    or is the "North Korean" fashion look taking off in Moscow ?
    maybe he needs a new haircut ? and his hair dyed ?

    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/13/rogozine-visite-mikron-lentreprise-de-circuits-integres-de-zelenograd/

    (who is that woman .... Rogozin has a new attack dog ?
    standing there nonchalantly with her hands in her pocket .....
    something tells me she doesn't suffer fools gladly .... )





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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  lancelot Sat May 14, 2022 4:22 am

    That is just some kind of overall suit so they can enter some sort of clean area in the chip fabrication facility.

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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty of course

    Post  Gazputin Sat May 14, 2022 7:40 am

    of course just a joke
    don't you guys get my twisted mind yet ?
    when you read my posts .... I always cross reference back to numbers

    I am a hard core numbers and logistics guy ..... with a twisted sense of humor
    and yeah - I was involved in "creative" stuff too ..... but I never accepted "different" for the sake of being "different"
    I only ever signed off on numbers that made sense ....

    I always liked Omar Bradley's line ...

    AMATEURS TALK STRATEGY AND PROFESSIONALS TALK LOGISTICS

    Omar Bradley was a U.S. General during World War II, and was known as a no-nonsense leader that had a continual focus on planning.
    He once said “amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics”

    spot on .... show me the "numbers"

    spare me the "strategy" .....


    GarryB
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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB Sat May 14, 2022 12:12 pm

    only problem with having lots of recyclable ICBMs it makes your "domestic" small rocket developers payback on any project impossible
    so to me these lightweight launchers are mostly a waste of capital in Russia

    They will be ICBMs first and foremost so when they are made they wont be ready or used for satellite launches... the main user might be the Russian military to launch satellites.

    A custom designed lightweight launcher should be cheaper than these missiles which will likely be liquid propellent rockets using storable liquid propellent.

    They only become efficient because when they are surplus to requirements as ICBMs or even IRBMs that they are essentially free.

    In fact that could be the thing too... design them to be full power ICBMs with three stages, or with super heavy payloads as IRBMs for all those hostile new targets in Europe, or just make them with two stages and just normal IRBMs for medium range targets to trash... the thing is that with two stages you have one high energy stage to get airborne and the whole weapon moving and out of the atmosphere and then the second stage takes it 4-5 thousand kms to its target in Europe or Japan or Alaska... but it would be easy to fit two of those first stages to end up with three stages... two energetic fast burning "first" stages and then a third stage to get it around the world to the US of A.... such flexibility in design would be as useful for an IRBM/ICBM as it would for a satellite launcher.. the IRBM would get most payloads to orbit but heavier payloads can add an extra stage or for higher orbits the extra stage could be used.

    You can then vary your number of ICBMs and IRBMs based on the number of first stages you make... and when IRBMs retire making some extra first stages would allow IRBMs to launch high orbit payloads or heavy payloads too.

    They will have rockets for lighter payloads too, which will use more efficient cryogenic fuels.

    I do think though that flyback Krylo-SV rocket/UAV mutation is worth pursuing - if only to create interesting work for your people
    who is funding it ? .... you can bet it is the military

    Well if the first stage is reusable for space launches (would be redundant for ICBMs and IRBMs) then you could make a dozen or so and use them with hundreds or thousands of IRBMs to make them equivalent to ICBMs in terms of orbit heights and payload weights... if you could carry them around on the back of a truck it would offer the ability to rapidly replace lost satellites if needed, which would be a useful military capability.

    Some conflicts will start without warning so being able to drive a truck to a specific location and launch a temporary satellite that might only last a few months to a year would be a valuable capability... not to mention the ability to replace lost satellites in a conflict too.

    Conversely the ability to launch things into orbit like that would also be useful for shooting down or attacking enemy satellites too.

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    Gazputin


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty nice shot of Angara pad site in this article

    Post  Gazputin Sat May 21, 2022 12:48 pm

    2nd last photo ... gives you a good perspective with all the little humans on the site

    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/20/vostochny-le-gaz-a-tous-les-etages/

    and the airport
    3.25km long ..... as opposed to my previous post from space that said 4kms

    I must admit I thought that was pretty long
    so I drove to the local Navy air base and its runway is about 2kms long .... looked down its length
    and I thought "twice as long as that ?" .... that's bonkers

    and it was

    seems to be control tower being built ? in these shots

    https://kosmosnews.fr/2022/05/17/piste-de-laeroport-de-vostochny-35-km-de-long-sur-60-m-de-large/



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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty 14th floor of the Angara tower in .... 3 to go

    Post  Gazputin Wed May 25, 2022 2:03 pm



    At the cosmodrome #Восточный, the 14th level of the future Cable-filling tower is installed in the design position 🏗

    Let's start the countdown, there are 3 left... 🚀

    The heart rejoices when you see how the new cosmodrome of Russia is growing!

    Now 3200 workers are involved in the construction of the second stage of Vostochny, not counting hundreds of technical specialists of the Center for the Operation of Ground Space Infrastructure (TsENKI) of Roscosmos, who install their technological equipment for refueling and missile control systems in the constructed ground and underground structures of the Angara launch complex.

    photos on Rogozin's Telegram channel

    https://t.me/s/rogozin_do


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Vostochny airport will be extended to 4.4 kms in the 2nd phase

    Post  Gazputin Thu May 26, 2022 12:00 am

    "We began to build the vostochny Cosmodrome airport complex quite recently. A little more than a year ago, a frail forest stood on this site, geodetic work was carried out. And at the end of this year, we plan to test the runway for the first time.

    It is more than 3 km and will allow receiving heavy cargo aircraft.
    At the second stage, the runway will be extended to 4.4 km.

    In 2023, a modern cargo-passenger terminal will be built. Thus, heavy and vulnerable spacecraft with expensive and unloving vibration and shaking electronics will be carefully delivered directly to the cosmodrome.

    I am not talking about the convenience for the residents of Tsiolkovsky and the workers of the cosmodrome - in order to fly to another city in Russia, now they have to get to Blagoveshchensk, and this is more than 240 km.
    The presence of a multifunctional modern cosmodrome is a guarantee of our full independence in the field of space activities, we understand this perfectly well, so we are building it at an accelerated pace."


    why so long ? 4,400 m
    hmmmmm ..... I wonder ....
    how long is the runway at Cape Kennedy for the Space Shuttle ?

    "The Shuttle Landing Facility at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida has a single 15,000-foot (4,600 m) concrete runway, 15/33. "

    now isn't that interesting ..... a remarkable coincidence .....





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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty more runway stuff - re X-37B and Space Shuttle

    Post  Gazputin Thu May 26, 2022 1:21 am

    the X-37B uses the same runways as the Shuttle used to

    Cape Kennedy 4572m
    Vandenberg AF Base 4572m
    Edwards AF Base 4579m

    spaceplane dimensions
    the X-37B dimensions are largely dictated by the launch rocket used
    normally the Atlas which uses the RD-180 engine .....

    Article on new Russian spaceplane
    seems dimensions are largely dictated by the Soyuz rocket - which is similar to the Atlas
    so you end up with much the same craft .... needing much the same runway length for landings

    it's real - it seems .... this Vostochny Cosmodrome is starting to look like a cool place

    info source :
    A reason for optimism: a promising spaceplane from NPO Molniya
    https://en.topwar.ru/181268-povod-dlja-optimizma-perspektivnyj-kosmoplan-ot-npo-molnija.html

    "The first technical details were published by RIA News March, 25. According to their source, the project from "Lightning" is being developed on an initiative basis. AKC is created for commercial use in the interests of various customers. The orbital plane is planned to be unmanned; it will have to send into orbit and return to Earth only cargo.

    The new Russian spaceplane will be similar in size to the American Boeing X-37B. The latter is less than 9 m long and has a wingspan of approx. 4,5 m and weighs no more than 5 tons. The limited dimensions and weight reduce the requirements for the launch vehicle. In this capacity, it is planned to use one of the Soyuz missiles in the promising AKS.

    It should be noted that information about the small dimensions of the spaceplane is indirectly confirmed by official reports. The full-size mock-up of the orbital aircraft was demonstrated in the closed pavilion of Army-2020. "


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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am

    Zhukovsky international airport is 4.6km and Ulyanovsk is 5km of reinforced concrete for heavy planes...
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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News - Page 19 Empty yeah I know

    Post  Gazputin Thu May 26, 2022 1:52 pm

    you wouldn't be trying to land spaceplanes at Zhukovsky though - far too close to a big urban area
    but yeah Ulyanovsk would be suitable

    although I think they would probably prefer to put a strip in at Kapustin Yar as the Western landing strip ?
    I'd be thinking that way
    all of those US bases are all at similar latitudes closer to the equator
    Kapustin Yar is roughly the same latitude as Vostochny too

    guess I will be reading this stuff next week or so
    I have that huge book on the Buran project - I haven't read much of it yet

    https://www.amazon.com/Energiya-Buran-Soviet-Shuttle-Springer-Praxis/dp/0387698485

    it has chapters on all the spaceplanes not just Buran
    (I remember going inside a Buran shuttle - think it was the Sydney Olympics - it was on display
    was around same size as a DC-9 - but had a really enormous cargo bay - as it didn't have rocket engines in the back like the US Shuttle)
    so I've had a lingering interest in spaceplanes all these years ... why I bought the book)

    ( I guess that Krylo-SV "returning stage" would need a decent sized runway too - but then it can deploy a wing better suited to subsonic flight ? )

    this is the most recent image I've seen of a proposed Russian spaceplane design

    https://www.flightglobal.com/russia-tests-reusable-spaceplane-design/113064.article

    the other question that comes to mind ..... if they start building a pad for the Soyuz-5 at Vostochny
    with twice the lifting capacity of the Soyuz ..... we may see an even bigger spaceplane in the future
    the Soyuz based one may well be the first round ...

    time to open that book ...




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