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    Japan - Russia Kuril Islands dispute:

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    Firebird

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    Post  Firebird on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:48 am

    Here's something I didn't know. THe BBC in England did a programme on it.
    Japan's big North Island, Hokkaido only recently even became Japanese. In around the 1860s it was inhabited by a completely different ethnic group, not part of Japan. They were mostly called the Ainu, and spoke a different language, had different culture even looked different to the Japanese. Anyway, the Japanese invade the Ainu's island and began to ban the language and culture. Just 5% of the Hokkaido today (it was a new Japanese name) are the original indigeneous inhabitants. With a few more, of mixed descent.

    So not only are the Kurils NOT Japanese, the whole of Hokkaido isn't really Japanese either. Infact given that Russia's ethnic groups are generally happy, you could argue that the Ainu would have been better off under Russia. Infact, Japan invaded modern day Hokaido partly because they thought it would join Russia. It also invaded Hokaido because Japan has a history of bloody imperialism.

    So it all kind of fucks up Japan's claim to the Kurils...!
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:07 pm

    Return to 1956 declaration implies no transfer of Russian territories to Japan - Peskov

    According to the Kremlin spokesman the sides will reach a compromise that will not run counter to their interests

    MOSCOW, November 18. /TASS/. The return to the 1956 Joint Declaration in the Russia-Japan peace treaty talks in no way implies an automatic transfer of Russian territories to the Japanese side, Russian president’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Sunday.

    "Over these days we have heard a great variety of different speculations, political guesses about some sort of a separate deal on the transfer of the islands and so on. This is not true and cannot be true," he told the Moscow. Kremlin. Putin program of the Rossiya-1 television channel, commenting on the Russian-Japanese agreement to continue the peace treaty talks on the basis of the 1956 declaration.

    Read also
    Putin: Negotiations with Japan on peace treaty require deep analysis

    "Can we say that it means automatic transference of any territories? Absolutely no. This is what President [of Russia Vladimir] Putin was saying when he answered journalists’ question," Peskov said.

    According to the Kremlin spokesman, the sides will reach a compromise that will not run counter to their interests. "Naturally, a compromise will be needed. We can say it already now that this compromise will not be in conflict with the national interests of either of the sides," he said. "Obviously, having such a vast experience, Russia cannot ignore Japan’s allied relations with other countries, first of all, with the United States. It is taken into account during the talks and this matter will need a solution."

    "Despite the complexity of the topic of the peace treaty with Japan, this problem can be settled. Such difficult problems are solvable all the same, and the experience of territorial talks with China is a good example of that," Peskov stressed.

    After Putin’s meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Singapore, Peskov told journalists that the two leaders had agreed to intensify the peace treaty talks on the basis on the 1956 declaration.

    Since the mid-20th century, Russia and Japan have been negotiating a peace treaty after World War II. The main stumbling block to this is the issue of the ownership of the southern Kuril Islands. After the end of World War II, all Kuril Islands were incorporated into the Soviet Union. However, Japan challenged the ownership of Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan islands and a number of uninhibited islands of the Lesser Kuril Ridge called the Habomai Islands in Japan.

    In 1956, the Soviet Union and Japan signed a joint declaration on ceasing the state of war. The two countries resumed diplomatic and other relations, however no peace treaty has been signed until now. The Soviet Union committed to paper in the declaration its readiness to hand over Shikotan, Habomai and a number of uninhibited small islands to Japan as a gesture of good will after the peace treaty is ultimately signed.

    However following Japan’s signing a security treaty with the United States in 1060, the former Soviet Union revoked its liabilities concerning the transference of islands. The Soviet government said back then that the islands would be handed over to Japan only when all foreign forces were withdrawn from its territory.


    More:
    http://tass.com/politics/1031368
    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel on Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:16 pm

    I don't personally have a problem with a return to the 1855 border if it is part of a comprehensive peace and trade accord, including Japan's recognition of all other Russian territorial claims (including Crimea), favorable trade conditions for Russia (including potential Sakhalinsk-Hokkaido pipeline), massive Japanese payments for the relocation of those islands' populations, etc.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:31 am

    zorobabel wrote:I don't personally have a problem with a return to the 1855 border if it is part of a comprehensive peace and trade accord, including Japan's recognition of all other Russian territorial claims (including Crimea), favorable trade conditions for Russia (including potential Sakhalinsk-Hokkaido pipeline), massive Japanese payments for the relocation of those islands' populations, etc.

    Trust me, never concede to screeching hyper-victims. Shinzo Abe doesn't even recognize that the Imperial Japanese committed any atrocities during WW2 (that includes the Nanking Massacre), he believes the Japanese were the victims not the perpetrators. What's even crazier is that his historical revisionism of Imperial Japanese victimhood  is being used (by the neocons) to antagonize war with China.

    Believe me you can't rationalize with the mentally ill, nevermind offering them concessions.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:19 pm

    In the USSR, they foresaw the conflict around Kuriles 60 years ago
    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/06/02/japan/

    Update: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2643363.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:54 pm

    Kurils islands has tens of thousands of Russian citizens. When Russia settled border dispute with China in 2004 Russia never gave any inhabited land to China. Giving Kuril islands to Japan will mean end of Putin. Not only that, once Japan gets Kuril islands, Japan will renounce San Francisco treaty and lay claim to Sakhalin island which used to be part of Japan which Japan took in Russia Japan war in 1904 on the basis Ainu once lived there and Japan considers all lands once inhabited by Ainu are Japanese land.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 01, 2020 9:29 am

    As the status of the Crimea shows... you can think what you like... it does not matter... it changes nothing on the ground.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:As the status of the Crimea shows... you can think what you like... it does not matter... it changes nothing on the ground.

    That's right. Kurils is nothing to Japan. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. If Japan gets Kurils next they ask for Sakhalin and then Kamchatka. Hell, Japan considers all lands inhabited by Asians as Japanese land.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri May 01, 2020 6:43 pm

    If Japan gets Kurils next they ask for Sakhalin and then Kamchatka.
    even if not, they would allow Americans on bases there. IMO, Japanese politicians know they won't get them but keep the issue for domestic consumption. It must be a tough pill to swallow having an Emperor but not an empire anymore.

    Hell, Japan considers all lands inhabited by Asians as Japanese land.
    not true. Asians live in Europe, Australia, Oceania, Africa & the Americas, incl. the largest Japanese diaspora in Brazil- it would be stupid to claim them all as belonging to Japan.
    Don't worry, the Japanese population is aging & they will have to allow more immigration to stay in business. In a few decades, they'll become Cinicized, if not in ethnicity, in culture & political allignment.
    A case in point: after being allied with the US, the Philippines r now getting in bed with China.
    Taiwan would be given an ultimatum: join the PRC or get destroyed & raped like Nanking & Korea were.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri May 01, 2020 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri May 01, 2020 6:47 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    If Japan gets Kurils next they ask for Sakhalin and then Kamchatka.
    even if not, they would allow Americans on bases there. IMO, Japanese politicians know they won't get them but keep the issue for domestic consumption. It must be a tough pill to have an Emperor but an empire anymore.
    Hell, Japan considers all lands inhabited by Asians as Japanese land.
    not true. Asians live in Europe, Australia, Oceania, Africa & the Americas, incl. the largest Japanese diaspora in Brazil- it would be stupid to claim them all as belonging to Japan.
    Don't worry, the Japanese population is aging & they will have to allow more immigration to stay in business. In a few decades, they'll become Cinicized, if not in ethnicity, in culture & politics.
    A case in point: after being allied with the US, the Philippines r now getting in bed with China. Taiwan would be given an ultimatum: join the PRC or get destroyed & raped like Nanking was.

    Japan considers the entire world as Japanese land. Every country does this. If there is no one left in the world except the people of a country, you can bet your ass the government will allow its citizens to settle the entire world.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri May 01, 2020 7:08 pm

    That's a hypothetical scenario that has nothing to do with any possible reality.
    If some1 in Japan rally thinks that, they should be in a mental assylum. There's not enough Japanese to claim & settle the whole Earth, even if they wanted to.
    Japan being a volcanic island chain would get uninhabitable before the rest of the world, even w/o any nuclear strikes/accidents.
    Their time as "a special nation protected by gods" is over. They been adopting to survive, Westernizing, conquering & eventually losing wars/lands since the 2 Imjin Wars of 1592–1598: https://www.ancient.eu/article/1398/the-japanese-invasion-of-korea-1592-8-ce/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasions_of_Korea_(1592%E2%80%931598)

    A good film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOxe1jvKoE


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat May 02, 2020 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sun May 03, 2020 1:51 am

    Japanese don't care about Kurils. Japanese want Sakhalin and Kamchatka, which were partially inhabited by Ainu whom Japanese consider as Japanese (which they are not). Getting Kurils is only a step to ask Russia for Sakhalin and Kamchatka.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun May 03, 2020 5:06 am

    Is it ur best guess or do u have references to back it up? Sure, they could use those lands but I never heard that their long term goals r to get them after the S. Kurils.
    If it's no secret to u, the Russians would know it too. They'll have a constitutional amendment against giving out any territory.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-territory/putin-wants-constitutional-ban-on-russia-handing-land-to-foreign-powers-idUSKBN20Q1DE

    Japan can forget about getting anything she claims.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:57 pm

    The Kuril Islands will remain with Russia, the discussion with Japan will be closed after the entry into force of amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation - Klintsevich

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    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:24 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The Kuril Islands will remain with Russia, the discussion with Japan will be closed after the entry into force of amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation - Klintsevich

    Thank god. Now we can stop listing to that stupid Japanese rant year after year. Abe won't be attending the summit in Vladivostok this year like he did every year. There's no reason for him to go.

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