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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    LMFS
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  LMFS Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:01 pm

    And besides they were crappy ships, so the VMF was rather relieved by losing them Wink
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:11 pm

    LMFS wrote:And besides they were crappy ships, so the VMF was rather relieved by losing them Wink

    Not so crappy. They ordered them.

    Sure if you compare them to kirovs they are crappy but if you compare them to other russian landing ships they are better than anything else.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    LMFS wrote:And besides they were crappy ships, so the VMF was rather relieved by losing them Wink

    Not so crappy. They ordered them.

    Sure if you compare them to kirovs they are crappy but if you compare them to other russian landing ships they are better than anything else.
    Well they were under-armed, and needed to be treated for Artic/Sub-Arctic conditions. Ideally IMO the new landing ships should have an element of ice-breaking ability built in to the stern.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:44 pm

    Who was minister then? That says it all. The industry and the military were not specially amused about the deal, as with so many of his incompetent decisions.

    The vessels were not warships in the sense Russia understands it. They got their money back and now they will build something hopefully better, everybody happy thumbsup
    Isos
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  Isos Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:05 pm

    Deal sucked for Russia but the ships are very good for their role and their role isn't to be armed like destroyers.

    Defensive weapon on turret like kashtan can be easily added but the ship isn't supposed to go in a contested zone alone and will wait that enemy anti ship forces are destroyed before being used for landing. It would also be protected by at least 2 other ships all the time during a war.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:03 am

    They would have used them if they had been allowed to get them, and despite not being ideal for their purposes I think they would have been decent ships.

    No ships are perfect and all have some vices... by now the Russians would have had both Mistral ships in service and would likely be looking to order the next two... I would expect the first two would have gone to the Pacific Fleet and the second two to the Northern Fleet operating at each end of the new North Sea Route as well as the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.

    But France decided that Russia is evil and dangerous and having two Mistral class carriers would be the end of the world so they said no.... you can't have what you paid for and partially built already.

    The idea for Russia was speed... it was an already established design that was operational and fully tested so they should expect no surprises and it can go into serial production straight away... they wanted at least four, but if could have been expanded to 6 if they found them useful... which is likely.

    Well the speed was correct they had two built rather quickly, but a political decision means it is not to be.

    Russia got some ship building experience and got to look at an example of a Helicopter carrier inside and out, and Russian companies made quite a bit of the internal bits on those two carriers as well as building helicopters and other things for it too.

    Now they have laid down their own ships... it will of course take much much longer, but they can think about the design of the Mistral and make their own changes and add ons to get a ship that suits them better.

    Russia essentially wanted a ship to operate in the arctic, which I am pretty sure was never part of the design specification for the Mistral, so in that regard they can change the design to be more suitable to their needs.

    The extra time should also allow the development of new systems and equipment too... perhaps a decent large radar set they will be planning for their newbuild cruisers could be used to improve situational awareness, and I would think at a very minimum they would fit Pantsir batteries in each corner and waist positions and TOR systems as well just as basic close in defence.

    Buying the Mistrals from Egypt was never part of any plan AFAIK... they just chalked it up to a lesson in commerce and worked on creating a Russian solution to a Russian problem.
    zardof
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty tarentul get new contol

    Post  zardof Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:36 pm

    Tarentul missile ship is getting a new fire control system of the RFS 962 Shuya, Sevastopol, December 2020.
    Does that mean new missiles will be installed ? or just for trial ?

    https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1338131564211867656/photo/1
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy

    Post  COMMANDER Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:06 pm

    I'm new to the forum. I have a few questions. I'm sorry for my bad english...

    1- How is the Russian navy now? (as technology)
    2- How against america ?
    3- How is sea power ?

    Thank you from now Smile
    PapaDragon
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty m new to the forum. I have a few questions.

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:40 pm

    COMMANDER wrote:I'm new to the forum. I have a few questions. I'm sorry for my bad english...

    1- How is the Russian navy now? (as technology)
    2- How against america ?
    3- How is sea power ?

    Thank you from now Smile

    Surface navy:

    1) Technology is better than ever, missiles are best ones in existence

    2) Close to home waters great thanks to coastal assets, away from home waters they are completely outnumbered (for non nuclear war)

    3) They still don't have sufficient number of ships to have proper "power" away from home, it will be about a decade or two before they get to that point (shorter if they commit to building more Gorshkov frigates)

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:22 pm

    COMMANDER wrote:I'm new to the forum. I have a few questions. I'm sorry for my bad english...

    1- How is the Russian navy now? (as technology)
    2- How against america ?
    3- How is sea power ?

    Thank you from now Smile

    Introduce yourself pls here:
    https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules
    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:46 pm

    Admiral Levchenko Udaloy-class:
    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 1612341700-1ceb6458e7071a5963855f16901285e9

    dino00, Hole and TMA1 like this post

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:16 am

    Tarentul missile ship is getting a new fire control system of the RFS 962 Shuya, Sevastopol, December 2020.
    Does that mean new missiles will be installed ? or just for trial ?

    AFAIK the four Moskit or SS-N-22 Sunburn missiles are going to be replaced with 16 Uran missiles, and a Pantsir-M system is going to be fitted too to replace any AK-630 system.

    The new fire control system and phased array radars will replace the search radars of the Pantsir-M in the detection and search role.

    2- How against america ?

    The Soviet and Russian navy even at their height were never about facing the west let alone just the US on its own and it was only ever intended for survival and trying to keep US carriers away from Russian or Soviet shores.

    With Kinzhal and MiG-31s as well as corvettes and frigates and land based anti ship missiles and weapons they have pretty much achieved the ability to be safe from US conventional naval threats.

    Their frigate programme is not going to effect their global reach really... they have sailed corvettes and frigates around the world in testing, but both ship types lack the endurance for global use and will replace cold war corvettes and destroyers in terms of coastal and near coastal Russian use. Note they are designating their upgraded cold war destroyers as frigates too even though their size means more endurance and more space is available.

    They will start looking to expand to global reach when they start making new destroyers and new cruisers even though upgraded cruisers and their existing carriers will allow international visits to allies and friends.

    That means they wont be a global force for probably 8-10 years at least though with the laying down of two helicopter carriers they will be laying destroyers down pretty soon in my opinion because they will need them to support their operations... but they wont be fully operational for 8-10 years as I say.

    They don't have the interest or the funding to dominate and police the worlds oceans like the US, and they wont be making anywhere near the 10 carriers and carrier groups that would be needed to have a global permanent presence.

    They will likely keep the Kuznetsov and perhaps make two CVNs in the 70-80K ton weight range, for visiting other continents with a surface group of ships that can effectively protect themselves and survive practically any attack.

    The CVNs will likely have S-500 and be pretty formidable, while the Cruisers they build will likely be amazing in terms of weapons and sensors, but they will primarily be used to build up international trade with countries that traditionally don't currently trade with Russia.

    Without carrier groups and ships that can sail to the ends of the earth the west will simply be able to blockade them like they did with Japan just before WWII started.

    The ships are for access to world trade, not to invade and bully third world countries...
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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty Will there be a project 775 successor?

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:47 pm

    The ship are in continuous use and should be replaced soon. Especially the own protection should be upgraded.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:51 pm


    Well Ivan Gren is supposed to be it

    If next two are good then odds are good that there will be double digit series ordered afterwards

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:41 pm

    They already said something about more Ivan Gren. I don't remember the numbers but they plan a lot of them.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:03 am

    Isos wrote:They already said something about more Ivan Gren. I don't remember the numbers but they plan a lot of them.
    The modified Ivan gren Class has at least twice the displacement of Ropucha class (project 775).

    I like a lot the proposed design of the modified Ivan Gren, similar to the Italian San Giorgio class, however it is already in a different niche than the Ropucha class.

    I believe there is now a niche open for a smaller amphibious ship, maybe with full load displacement between 2000 and 4000 tons.

    By the way, I saw a proposal of a russian ship for export with a displacement around 2000 tons, but it had quite a bit of imported component.
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    par far


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    Questions Thread: Russian Navy - Page 7 Empty Russian Amphibious command ship

    Post  par far Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:50 pm

    I was just wondering if Russia had something similar to the US USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) Amphibious command ship.

    Could the Admiral Kuznetsov fill the same role(when upgraded) or can the Pyotr Velikiy or Admiral Nakhimov(when re-fitted and put into service) fill the role.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:03 pm

    par far wrote:I was just wondering if Russia had something similar to the US USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) Amphibious command ship.

    Could the Admiral Kuznetsov fill the same role(when upgraded) or can the  Pyotr Velikiy or Admiral Nakhimov(when re-fitted and put into service) fill the role.

    They both can act as navy command ship but Russia doesn't such a useless ship as the Mount Whitney. It's an undefended floting target.

    That's a 180m lon landing ship transformed into an office for corrupt US admirals.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:45 am

    The nearest equivalent in the Soviet/Russian Navy would have been the SSV-33 Ural command ship based on a Kirov battlecruiser hull

    However she was laid up and scrapped eventually

    I don't know if the Russian Navy will return to the concept. I guess not as the experience with the Ural was not great, although it did succeed in controlling and monitoring a good deal of the North Pacific regardless.

    These days with the miniaturization of electronics and multitasking ship classes I guess it makes more sense to just rely on the flagman ship classes for such functionality. They already have very powerful electronic equipment, sensors and antennas. So the prospective Lider-class destroyers in other words and possibly the Super Gorshkovs. For now I think the Kirov class battlecruisers and Slavas can take on these roles to an extent.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:44 am

    The size and power of electronics back then made a mainframe ship useful to collect and distribute information, but these days most of their ships and even armoured vehicles are fitted with battle computers that show the situation in their area which they can contribute with their sensors and equipment...

    Having a separate ship to process all that info is probably redundant and would be incorporated into most large ships.

    If you have a group of corvettes one would be in charge of the group, but if there was a frigate there then the larger ship would likely take charge etc etc with destroyer, cruiser, helicopter carrier, and CVN...


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