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    Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Isos
    Isos


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    Ka-226 and Ansat-U - Page 5 Empty Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Isos Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:54 am

    The advantage of ka 266 is its modularity. Need an atgm sniper helicopter ? Put the cabin with the weapons. Need a cargo chopper ? Put the cargo cabin.

    They are also cheap and can be available in huge numbers. Export price is 4 million $. For Russia it can be as cheap as 1 million.
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:46 am

    I suspect its limitation will be the modularity.

    If they only make four or five different modules and stop there that would be OK but the number of potential uses and users suggests customised pods might be a good idea.

    A rescue pod with essentially a pod based on a modern ambulance design with all the equipment replicating a local ambulance but obviously with higher speed and no issues with heavy traffic... would be ideal for a big city with road congestion issues... just need somewhere to land and somewhere to go to... the roof of many hospitals could be designed as large flat landing areas if they invest in such helicopters.

    Equally, launch pods that can be extended out sideways or perhaps gun mounts on fixed wings with linkless belt feeds leading into the cabin, plus something similar for 57mm rockets could allow for rather significant numbers of rounds and rockets to be carried and used without having to land and reload a lot...

    A Vasilek 82mm auto mortar used a four round clip for 82mm mortar bombs, there is no reason a linkless feed for 57mm rockets could not be used to launch rockets with a stack in the cabin in the linkless feed system... such a mount would also be useful for land vehicles where a single arm launcher is reloaded by a linkless belt feed system reloaded automatically from a large rocket bin in the hull.

    You could even take advantage of the design of the shape of the hull and make the pod extend beyond the with of the cabin section with ATGM launch tubes stored horizontally pointing forward with say four or five vertical layers 5 or 6 across where the outermost tube launches and is then ejected and all the other 4 or 5 remaining missiles move out one position to be ready to fire.

    You could have two layers of Kornet (one HEAT and one HE) and perhaps a layer of Bulat with twice as many missiles and a layer of Pine that can be used against aircraft and armour...

    That might be too much weight of course so perhaps VK-1500 engines for that one?

    I still like the 23mm twin barrel gun and having it mounted on a side outrigger/wing type arrangement where it can be pointed using the gunners helmet mounted sight with the ammo stored in the cabin to the tune of thousands of rounds... I think it would be fun.

    This is so much fun it make me wonder if the Minoga might be a Ka-27 sized Ka-226T?

    Obviously so many missiles on the Ka-226 is not practical... the excess weight would turn it into a dog, even though the coaxial helicopter design is excellent. Loggers here in New Zealand who used Ka-32s said they handled like Hughes 500 helicopters despite the size and weight and power difference.

    I would think for a light scout helicopter the Ka-226 might be fitted to have two wings with a dozen to 16 ATGMs on two wing pylons and perhaps wing tip mounted sensors, and perhaps a rear facing gun turret with perhaps a 23mm gun and optics...
    Isos
    Isos


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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:41 am

    Hardly possible to put so many stuff. Max cargo weight is 1000kg. Kornet is 30kg with its tube, other air launched athm are double this weight. You also need weapon pylon and a cabin. There is also size issues. It's a small chopper. There is no need to compete with a ka 52.

    Having 4-6 missiles is very good because then it's a cheap helicopter so you will buy a lot of them. A group of 12 ka-226 in the air will cover a big area and have 60 missiles.

    Being helicopters, they can be reloaded few km from the front.
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:37 am

    Kornet is about 35kgs, but Ataka and Shturm and Khrisantema are not double their weight, they are about 40-45kgs each, and Bulat will be possibly half the weight of the Kornet, while the Pine is maybe 30-40kgs...

    The point is that with its pod it makes sense to use the capacity... otherwise no pod at all and some wings with gun pods, rockets and missiles fitted, which could be used when no pod is fitted...

    The replacement for the Helix, Minoga would be interesting if it had a modular pod system but in a heavier weight class, the Ka-29 is an attack helicopter with troop landing capacity, so there must be a Minoga to replace that in service in 5-10 years time.

    Certainly the light Ka-226 could be used from smaller ships and its modular capacity with different pods would make it versatile and useful.

    A redesign of the pod system that allows the pod to extend forward under the cabin so that for instance the search and rescue pod could include under nose search lights and EO balls for searching the sea, or an armed pod for light attack could include EO balls and nose mounted radar antenna , while an anti sub pod could include a centrally mounted dipping sonar with torpedoes and a nose mounted AESA radar to spot periscopes.

    The Russian small sized anti sub torpedoes are about 400kgs each so at least two could be carried but the Russian concept is for ballistic rocket delivered torpedoes be carried by ship and sub so when a platform of any type detects a sub threat the nearest platform can launch an attack immediately ( at Mach 2.5 but without alerting the sub it is under attack till the torpedo splashes down right on top of it.)
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:45 am

    Actually... how about this for thinking outside the square... with Kornets weighing 35kgs each you could stack them pointing sideways in a rigid structure with a grid 5 wide and 5 high... equalling 25 missiles ready to fire... = 850kgs... add 100kgs for the structure and wiring, which can be light fibreglass... and a helicopter roof mounted stabilised EO sight with laser for the beam riding Kornet missiles... you can fly around finding targets and when you have found some the helicopter turns sideways and launches a missile... you can then turn the helicopter head on... there is no wire and the missile is guided by laser beam so as long as you keep the EO ball pointing at the target you should get a hit... but when flying around you get no extra drag from the missiles you are carrying and all are ready to fire with a quick 90 degree turn away from the target to launch.

    The coaxial helicopters design means pedal turns can be performed in flight at up to 100km per hour... firing a missile from 8km away but flying in a tangent to the target you can perform a pedal turn and launch a missile and then turn back with the pilot flying forward but not towards the target while the gunner looks sideways and watches the flight of the missile to impact and then decides if another missile is needed...
    Isos
    Isos


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    Ka-226 and Ansat-U - Page 5 Empty Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Isos Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:49 pm

    Good idea with a stabilized 360° Gimbal EO you don't care where the chopper is pointing at.

    But frankly that's too many missiles. Mi-28 and ka-52 can carry 16 atgm and some rocket pods yet they barely carry that much in Ukraine.

    But that's a good idea and tgat would just require to create the cabine not redesign the helicopter.

    There is a huge niche market for the ka-226 if they are smart enough to create the modules.

    GarryB likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38913
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:25 am

    The issue I have is that there is a large volume of space where the pod is located... if you only want to carry 6 to 8 missiles then you could just build some stub wings... you don't even need a pod.... unless you have a huge fuel pod as well to extend flight range.

    Wings mounted next to the main pod are directly under the rotors so the weight is centralised so you can fill it with fuel and weapons and as they are used up the balance of the aircraft should not be effected.

    Maybe a compromise could be two wing mounts for 8 Kornet ATGMs total, but a central pod/compartment of the helicopter with fuel but also some drones that could be released downwards to fly forwards and scout ahead for targets... any air defence platforms start opening up and they get a supersonic Kornet for breakfast, while the drones if they are not attacked can look around the place for targets and enemy positions... you could launch higher flying recon drones and is there is resistance you have Kornets to take out air defence and also some suicide drones to attack other targets.

    The recon drones you could design to be recoverable with a net or a hook the drone flys into hanging under the helicopter... or just both land and manually recover... hook a line on it and take off and wind in the line..... hang on... wasn't there a system shown on the drone thread on this forum about a drone system that launches and recovers drones that could be used on fighters and bombers and transport aircraft... that would be ideal...

    The sniper concept matches because it can take out specific targets with missiles or drones but it also gathers intel on enemy positions and transmits that information to HQ in real time.

    I still think a more custom made version makes sense with smaller flat armoured windows, an with an engine power increase...

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