Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Vladimir79
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2951
    Points : 3827
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:57 am

    In the United States have failed the test of Israeli missile defense system
    24.07.2009

    Israel and the United States held a July 22 joint test of Arrow 2 missile defense, which took place on the coast of the U.S. state of California. As Reuters reports, citing sources in the Pentagon, launch rocket interceptor was not implemented, because before that were not fulfilled all the prerequisites.

    According to the agency, the trial involved three U.S. missile interceptors, as well as a modern system of the Israeli Arrow 2. At the Pentagon reported that it had successfully tracked dropped from aircraft and military transport aircraft, C-17 conditional goal, as well as the exchange of data in real time with the U.S. missile defense sites.

    Nevertheless, according to the U.S. military, to run the Arrow interceptor missile, were not implemented all the conditions and therefore it was not running. " Other purposes has been achieved. Currently, according to an interlocutor agencies, military analyze test results.

    Recall that, as reported earlier, Israeli media, the joint tests missile interceptor Arrow had to act against the goals, located at a distance of more than 1000 kilometers. This is significantly higher than previous tests in the Mediterranean region, where there is no way to conduct such launches.
    23.07.2009

    The rights to this material belong Lenta.ru
    nightcrawler
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 522
    Points : 634
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 31
    Location : Pakistan

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Israel to test Arrow-3 interceptor by mid-2011

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:21 am

    Israel to test Arrow-3 interceptor by mid-2011

    The first fly out of Israel's new Arrow-3 anti-ballistic missile interceptor will be performed by mid-2011.

    Israel Aerospace Industries, which is developing the Arrow-3, is currently performing ground testing of the new missile, which will intercept incoming ballistic missiles using kinetic kill instead of proximity warhead detonation as with the operational Arrow-2.

    Israeli sources say the Arrow-3 will be the most advanced ballistic missile interceptor in the world. They say it will be "very energetic" and have "super manoeuvrability", enabling it to change its trajectory to engage another target that was detected after launch.

    The sources say the Arrow-3 will be deployed in parallel to the Arrow-2, and the type to be launched will be determined by the fire control system.

    The need for a longer-range kinetic kill interceptor stems from the threat posed by Scud-type missiles with 400-600km (216-324nm) range that Syria deploys, and designs with a 2,000km range, like Iran's Shihab-type weapons.

    The Arrow-3 will provide an additional layer in Israel's multi-layered defence system, which the nation has built to protect its territory from rockets and missiles.

    Rafael's Iron Dome system has recently proved its capability to destroy salvos from short-range rockets. The company and Raytheon are also developing David's Sling, a system designed to intercept longer-range rockets like the Iranian-designed Fatah-110 by Hezbollah militants in Lebanon.

    The Arrow-2 and Arrow-3 missiles will provide the upper layer, with the two planned to work separately or together to improve interception probabilities.

    Israel to test Arrow-3 interceptor by mid-2011

    Ogannisyan8887
    Ogannisyan8887

    Posts : 62
    Points : 111
    Join date : 2011-01-07
    Age : 28

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:21 am

    opps more american money down the drain tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue
    avatar
    Austin

    Posts : 7619
    Points : 8016
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Israel has moving to Arrow-3 with KKV capability , Arrow-2 had warhead

    Post  Austin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:05 am

    Israel has moving to Arrow-3 with KKV capability , Arrow-2 had warhead

    Boeing Links Up With IAI On Arrow-3

    The two companies, which cooperated in developing the operational Arrow-2, on Jan. 23 announced an agreement to jointly work on the Arrow-3. “This new agreement is the next logical step in our relationship with Boeing and a strong opportunity for both companies to play a bigger role in the missile defense market,” says IAI President and CEO Itzhak Nissan.

    The Arrow-3 is designed to intercept missiles above the atmosphere and at longer range than the Arrow-2, thus enabling several interception attempts against any incoming missile and increasing the likelihood of success. Specifically, Israel is developing the Arrow-3 to anticipate a nuclear threat from Iran. “Israel is too small to absorb a nuclear strike,” a senior defense source says. “The Arrow-3 will minimize the chance of enemy missiles penetrating our defense shields.”

    Like the Arrow-2, the Arrow-3 is a two-stage, solid-propellant interceptor but is equipped with an exoatmospheric kill vehicle that is designed to hit to kill and not use a proximity warhead like the Arrow-2. The overall interceptor is slightly smaller than the Arrow-2 and uses the same launch system. IAI tested the launcher using a model of the Arrow-3 interceptor last September and is preparing for the first flyout test in the second half of 2012.

    Arrow-3 will use the next-generation “Green Pine” active, electronically scanned array radar, known as “Great Pine,” which is believed to have a detection range of 900 km (563 mi.). It will also receive data from the U.S. AN/PTY-2 X-band radar deployed in southern Israel, enabling an early detection of incoming missiles and a longer preparation time for interception
    avatar
    Austin

    Posts : 7619
    Points : 8016
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Austin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:17 am

    I think Arrow-3 will have anti-IRBM capability like THAAD with ability to intercept IRBM with a range of 3,500 km which is what best Iran would develop.

    The GP radar of Arrow-2 has a range of 600 km while with Arrow-3 they have increased the range to 900 km , both are AESA.

    While for S-400 the range of the radar was declared as 600 km but it was a PESA , I read S-500 will have a X band AESA with a range of 1500 km.
    collegeboy16
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1145
    Points : 1146
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 24
    Location : Roanapur

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:47 am

    Iron Dome (Hebrew: כִּפַּת בַּרְזֶל, kipat barzel) is a mobile all-weather air defense system[4] developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems.[3] It is a missile system designed to intercept and destroy short-range rockets and artillery shells fired from distances of 4 to 70 kilometers away and whose trajectory would take them to a populated area.[5][6] The system, created as a defensive countermeasure to the rocket threat against Israel's civilian population on its northern and southern borders, uses technology first employed in Rafael's SPYDER system. Iron Dome was declared operational and initially deployed on 27 March 2011 near Beersheba.[7] On 7 April 2011, the system successfully intercepted a Grad rocket launched from Gaza for the first time.[8] On 10 March 2012, The Jerusalem Post reported that the system shot down 90% of rockets launched from Gaza that would have landed in populated areas.[6] By November 2012, it had intercepted 400+ rockets.[9][10]
    The Iron Dome system is also effective against aircraft up to an altitude of 32,800 ft (10,000 m). [11]
    -wikipedia
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2888
    Points : 3043
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:18 am

    Seems to be quite effective. Something like a 70% success rate according to info I saw, which is pretty good considering the targets. The only down side is the cost. One ID projectile/missile is estimated to cost (depending on source) between $45000-$62000, while the Fajr rockets cost between $1000-$2000.
    collegeboy16
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1145
    Points : 1146
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 24
    Location : Roanapur

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:34 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Seems to be quite effective. Something like a 70% success rate according to info I saw, which is pretty good considering the targets. The only down side is the cost. One ID projectile/missile is estimated to cost (depending on source) between $45000-$62000, while the Fajr rockets cost between $1000-$2000.
    True, every accurate attacks made with these cheap-o rockets eats about 50 grand of the Israeli budget. Having said that, it would be vulnerable to a counter such as this: if one is to use relatively accurate fireworks(nonlethal and more importantly, cheap!) than entirely live warheads to defeat this system and try to match its number of counters as a battery of these has about 180 interceptors(and that is if they intercept every target) and if you manage to lob rockets very accurately, these 50k interceptors would take out about 50 dollars worth of fireworks Twisted Evil . However the inherent effectiveness of the system may make it a favorite of everyone who has the money and the urgent need for it such as S.Kor and Taiwan.
    Russian Patriot
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1160
    Points : 2046
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 29
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Israel Successfully Tests David's Sling Defense System

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:01 pm

    MOSCOW, November 26 (RIA Novosti) - Israel has successfully tested its David's Sling defense system, also known as Magic Wand, local media reported.

    Over the past few days, David’s Sling has intercepted a test-fired mid-range missile in its first trial run of the kind, the Haaretz daily reported on Sunday.

    David’s Sling’s intercepting missile is an advanced weapon with the possibility of a greater range of activity thanks to its engine, which switches off and on a few times during the flight. The test involved no warhead, with a trial involving a warhead to be held by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in the future.

    The test brought Israel closer to possessing an active defense shield protecting the country against Islamic militant group Hezbollah’s projectiles, the Jerusalem Post daily reported on Sunday.

    The newspaper said the David’s Sling missile defense system, now being developed by Israel’s defense company Rafael and US defense contractor Raytheon, is designed to “fill the gap between Iron Dome’s short-range protection and the Arrow 2 long-range ballistic missile defense program.”

    The system, to become operational in 2014, would defend Israel against missiles with a range between 70 kilometers (44 miles) and 300 km (187 miles).

    The Jerusalem Post said that according to the IDF, there are some 200,000 rockets and missiles pointed in the direction of Israel from Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas.

    An Egyptian-brokered ceasefire between Israel and Hamas came into effect on Wednesday. Both the IDF and the Islamist group praised the deal, in line with which, Israel ended its Operation Pillar of Defense against the Gaza Strip, a Palestinian enclave of 1.7 million that has been governed by Hamas since 2007, and Hamas stopped launching rockets into Israel.

    The Pillar of Defense started on November 14 with an airstrike that eliminated the head of the military wing of Hamas, Ahmed Jabari. The airstrike came after a reported surge in rocket attacks on Israeli border towns from Gaza.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121126/177735058.html
    nemrod
    nemrod

    Posts : 832
    Points : 1330
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty US, Israeli missile experts report Iron Dome's success rate as low as zero

    Post  nemrod on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:09 pm


    It’s very hard to see how it (Iron Dome’s success rate) could be more than 5 or 10 percent.
    MIT physicist Theodore Postol.

    This subject could be linked to this topic
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2365-missile-s-shield-plan-and-us-military-complexe-victime-of-the-reality
    As US provide money, and experts, it is the same technology as Missile's shield.
    This so-called Missile's shield -Iron dome- is as their JSF F-35, or F-22. Supposed to be invicible, but in front of the reality, these hardware become useless. Yes the real is, was, and stay far to be virtual. The hype is there for that, you pay, you pay, you pay.
    If their shields are not effective against the poor, and old fashionned palestinian's craft's rockets, how it could be effective against the russian's state of the art SS-24, SS-25, SS-27 ,SSNX20, SSNX-23, SSNX32, I think this shield -I mean US/Israeli this is the same product- is innefective against MIRV like the old SS-20, SS-17, SS-18, SS-19.
    I doubt if their shield can do something against the old SS-4, SS-5, and SS-11.



    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/21/294645/iron-domes-success-as-little-as-zero/


    As American President Barack Obama hailed the ‘resounding success’ of Israel’s US-financed Iron Dome antimissile system on the first of his tour there, missile experts have newly unveiled that Iron Dome’s success rate during the regime’s November war on Gaza was as low as zero.


    While Obama used his Wednesday’s tour of an Iron Dome installation, “celebrating a technological wonder built with the help of American dollars” and seeking to showcase US support of the Zionist regime, there was no mention about the “intensifying debate” on whether the promotion of the system’s success rate was “more illusory than real,” says a The New York Times article on Thursday.

    Contrary to Israeli claims that Iron Dome’s success rate in destroying incoming Palestinian rockets during the regime’s massive military strikes against the blockaded Gaza strip was 90 percent, studies by weapons experts in the US and Israel suggest that the anti-missile system “destroyed no more than 40 percent” of the rockets “and perhaps far fewer,” the report emphasizes.


    Many rockets, they argue, were “merely crippled or deflected” but not destroyed as claimed, allowing intact or dying rockets to fall on populated areas.

    Following the wildly exaggerated claims by the Israeli regime about Iron Dome’s success rate, the US Congress also described the system as “very effective,” pledging an additional USD680 million for deployments through 2015.

    According to the report, Richard Lloyd, a weapons expert who has written a critique of Iron Dome for engineers and weapons designers, and Theodore Postol, a physicist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) who helped reveal major Patriot antimissile failures in 1991, analyzed new videos on the performance of the Israeli anti-missile system and found that Iron Dome “repeatedly failed to hit its targets head-on.”

    “It’s very hard to see how it could be more than 5 or 10 percent,” the report quotes Dr. Postol as saying.


    Moreover, the daily adds, Mordechai Shefer, an Israeli rocket scientist formerly with Rafael, Iron Dome’s maker, studied about two dozen videos and, in a study published last month, “concluded that the kill rate was zero.”

    Meanwhile, the paper underlines that Iron Dome’s performance is the key to a potential Israeli decision whether to take military action against the Islamic Republic as it has repeatedly threatened, hinging on its estimate of possible retaliatory costs, “including damage inflicted by rockets fired from southern Lebanon and the Gaza Strip,” not to mention Iran’s own long-range ballistic missiles.


    Amid the growing anxiety over any Iranian retaliatory strikes on Israel in case of an American or an Israeli attack against the country, as often threatened by officials of both allies as a ploy aimed at pressuring Tehran into abandoning its right to use peaceful nuclear technology, “the Israeli public saw Iron dome’s (reported) early successes” against rocket fire from Gaza “as proof” that it can tolerate retaliatory strikes, the report adds, citing Israeli antimissile program’s founder, Uzi Rubin.

    Following the Gaza cease-fire last year, the report notes, Lloyd began scrutinizing “hundreds of online videos of Iron Dome in action,” looking for “unambiguous signs of success: pairs of fireballs (at night) or smoke clouds (during the day) that formed as speeding fragments blew up a warhead.”

    However, “he found very few,” the daily adds, citing Lloyd.

    Lloyds method of video analysis won scientific backing during the 1991 US-led Persian Gulf war against Iraq, as the American military boasted that its Patriot interceptors, built to protect Israel against potential missile attacks by Iraqi dictator at the time Saddam Hussein, had succeeded 96 percent of the time.

    MIT scientist, however, “analyzed broadcast videos and found only misses,” according to the Time’s report.

    In Israel, meanwhile, Lloyd won support from Reuven Pedatzur, a military analyst and former fighter pilot “long skeptical of his country’s antimissile claims,” who found an Israeli police report saying that 109 rockets launched from Gaza - roughly twice the military’s figure - hit urban areas.

    Pedatzur further discovered “evidence of wide destruction” inflicted by rockets fired by Palestinian Hamas militants.

    A Finance Ministry report registered 3,165 claims of property damage, “including to cars and buildings in cities like Ashdod and Beersheba, both protected by Iron Dome battalions.”
    Zivo
    Zivo

    Posts : 1488
    Points : 1514
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Zivo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:43 am

    Keep in mind it is press TV. Not that I agree with any Israeli or US sources either.

    This would not be the first time there is a dispute on missile interceptions over Israel. If I recall, even the US and Israel still cannot agree at how effective the Patriot missile really was during the first Gulf War.

    Seems ridiculous to spend $100k on a missile to shoot down a $1 bottle rocket, but I guess it's OK if they're are not writing the checks...
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26602
    Points : 27142
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:42 am

    Seems ridiculous to spend $100k on a missile to shoot down a $1 bottle rocket, but I guess it's OK if they're are not writing the checks...

    No only are they not writing the cheques, they can make a whole industry on the development of those expensive interceptor missiles.
    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2426
    Points : 2416
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Regular on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:55 am

    so what exactly is wrong with the system? And why it only got out into publicity now. I guess some heads will roll Very Happy
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26602
    Points : 27142
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 am

    War = truth is first victim... ask most Americans... indeed most westerners and they will tell you that the Patriot defeated the Scud.

    Anybody who is interested in the subject knows that is not true, but it would be unpatriotic of the US media to dispel such a myth of US military superiority... bad for morale knowing our boys are not safe... imagine that... going to war and not being safe... how warped is that? Twisted Evil
    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2426
    Points : 2416
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Regular on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:War = truth is first victim... ask most Americans... indeed most westerners and they will tell you that the Patriot defeated the Scud.

    Anybody who is interested in the subject knows that is not true, but it would be unpatriotic of the US media to dispel such a myth of US military superiority... bad for morale knowing our boys are not safe... imagine that... going to war and not being safe... how warped is that? Twisted Evil
    I've seen this trend too. But before that they were saying that their equipment is too old and they need more and newer weapons, more soldiers, more bombs, more wmd's.
    Israel on other hand can't let illusions fool them. You don't know what will happen in the future, US is flirting with Islamists, Arab spring didn't make place safer either, Obama supports Palestine. Most likely in the future Israel will have to stand by themselves and deal with all those problems US brought to them
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5815
    Points : 6450
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 40
    Location : Croatia

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:13 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:War = truth is first victim... ask most Americans... indeed most westerners and they will tell you that the Patriot defeated the Scud.

    Anybody who is interested in the subject knows that is not true, but it would be unpatriotic of the US media to dispel such a myth of US military superiority... bad for morale knowing our boys are not safe... imagine that... going to war and not being safe... how warped is that? Twisted Evil
    I've seen this trend too. But before that they were saying that their equipment is too old and they need more and newer weapons, more soldiers, more bombs, more wmd's.
    Israel on other hand can't let illusions fool them. You don't know what will happen in the future, US is flirting with Islamists, Arab spring didn't make place safer either, Obama supports Palestine. Most likely in the future Israel will have to stand by themselves and deal with all those problems US brought to them

    I don`t think US is flirting with Islamists. I would say that they are always being used for they own goals , in some casses

    they are being brutalized and in some kept in chess with their huge soft and hard power but in all cases all for the benefit of Israel

    itself and never against.




    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26602
    Points : 27142
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:34 am

    Americans have long believed in the very very stupid principle of "the enemy of my main enemy is my friend".

    It got them into bed with Stalin when Hitler was a threat, it got them into bed with the South Vietnamese because the Soviets and Chinese backed the North, and it got them into bed with the Chinese against the Soviets.

    Any rational person would look at the 1990s and say that the west had a much better relationship with communist china than they did with fledgling democratic Russia, and you need to ask why if the west can do business and invest so much into communist china, that the cold war was such a problem? They claim they played a small commie country against a big commie country and defeated the big commie country... but the result is that they now have a powerful democracy that they still don't understand still armed with nukes and not really thinking of them as a friend.

    The obvious alternative strategy would have been to suck up to the Soviets and invest in their country and improve their living standards through the same market economy that China has used to become much more advanced, except Russia was already relatively sophisticated in military production terms compared with China, so you would end up with a modern stable communist country that was a friend rather than an enemy.

    The US has been playing with the bad muslims for some time now and has been burned on several occasions, but it is not learning the lessons. It thinks the bad muslims come from Iran but they come from Saudi Arabia and some from Pakistan... though I think Pakistan is losing interest in the US... it is realising its position will remain only as long as it is useful... which will last as long as US troops are in Afghanistan... which could be a long time.
    nemrod
    nemrod

    Posts : 832
    Points : 1330
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  nemrod on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:War = truth is first victim... ask most Americans... indeed most westerners and they will tell you that the Patriot defeated the Scud.

    Anybody who is interested in the subject knows that is not true, but it would be unpatriotic of the US media to dispel such a myth of US military superiority... bad for morale knowing our boys are not safe... imagine that... going to war and not being safe... how warped is that? Twisted Evil

    In fact Garry I can certify that I was one of the first victim of their filty propaganda.
    During the first gulf war, the live, CNN, TF1, A2, BBC, etc....Patriots downed Scud, downed Scud, downed Scud, etc...
    These filty sentences was swalowed by our poor washed brains -I was brain washed by militaries newspaper, and their so stupid TV document legend's wing, in french "les ailes de légende"-.
    They swaggered their tanks are invicibles, their F-16/F-15/F-18 best aircrafts of the worlds, Patriots can downed every Saddam's hardwares, Sam are innefective against the best army of the world. In fact, underlying US weaponnery is better than any soviet hardwares. But....
    After the war, when things were calmed you discovered, after a discret article in bottom of the page, that their filty patriots have never downed any scuds.
    Their tanks could be crippled, if not burned.
    Furthermore an old Mig-25 downed F-18, and a B-52, and missed several times to down F-15 and their F-111.
    An old Sam 6 downed very easily F-16. I don't know what's happenned in iraqi air force, but they could inflict severe damages if they were more motivied. However in that time Saddam was only interrested by power, and avoided any problems with USA.


    After our brain washed had to believe that none countries in the world could match with US hyperpower. In order to corroborate what I mean, fortunetly few years after came Internet, and we -amazed- learned that in fact US army has never easily won any war. In Korea as in Vietnam their best fighters hardly matched with soviet aircrafts.
    Just last episode resumed what is realy US superpower.
    An old Mig 17 -subsonic fighter-, downed 2 F-105 -supersonic figther-.
    It means that without helped from Russia, US Army can never won a war.
    If in 1991 we have no bastards like Gorbatchev, Chevardnaze, Yeltsin, the gulf war's result must be another thing.



    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2426
    Points : 2416
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Regular on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:44 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    GarryB wrote:War = truth is first victim... ask most Americans... indeed most westerners and they will tell you that the Patriot defeated the Scud.

    Anybody who is interested in the subject knows that is not true, but it would be unpatriotic of the US media to dispel such a myth of US military superiority... bad for morale knowing our boys are not safe... imagine that... going to war and not being safe... how warped is that? Twisted Evil

    In fact Garry I can certify that I was one of the first victim of their filty propaganda.
    During the first gulf war, the live, CNN, TF1, A2, BBC, etc....Patriots downed Scud, downed Scud, downed Scud, etc...
    These filty sentences was swalowed by our poor washed brains -I was brain washed by militaries newspaper, and their so stupid TV document legend's wing, in french "les ailes de légende"-.
    They swaggered their tanks are invicibles, their F-16/F-15/F-18 best aircrafts of the worlds, Patriots can downed every Saddam's hardwares, Sam are innefective against the best army of the world. In fact, underlying US weaponnery is better than any soviet hardwares. But....
    After the war, when things were calmed you discovered, after a discret article in bottom of the page, that their filty patriots have never downed any scuds.
    Their tanks could be crippled, if not burned.
    Furthermore an old Mig-25 downed F-18, and a B-52, and missed several times to down F-15 and their F-111.
    An old Sam 6 downed very easily F-16. I don't know what's happenned in iraqi air force, but they could inflict severe damages if they were more motivied. However in that time Saddam was only interrested by power, and avoided any problems with USA.


    After our brain washed had to believe that none countries in the world could match with US hyperpower. In order to corroborate what I mean, fortunetly few years after came Internet, and we -amazed- learned that in fact US army has never easily won any war. In Korea as in Vietnam their best fighters hardly matched with soviet aircrafts.
    Just last episode resumed what is realy US superpower.
    An old Mig 17 -subsonic fighter-, downed 2 F-105 -supersonic figther-.
    It means that without helped from Russia, US Army can never won a war.
    If in 1991 we have no bastards like Gorbatchev, Chevardnaze, Yeltsin, the gulf war's result must be another thing.



    And it has nothing to do with outdated equipment, monkey models, bad morale and bad training of Iraqi army? Even Iran kicked their asses while being outnumbered. Outcome wasn't surprising. Insurgency was harder than both wars. Don't know what Gorbatchev, Yeltsin and Chevarnadze has to do with it can You tell me more?
    nemrod
    nemrod

    Posts : 832
    Points : 1330
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  nemrod on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:02 pm

    Regular wrote:
    And it has nothing to do with outdated equipment, monkey models, bad morale and bad training of Iraqi army? Even Iran kicked their asses while being outnumbered. Outcome wasn't surprising. Insurgency was harder than both wars. Don't know what Gorbatchev, Yeltsin and Chevarnadze has to do with it can You tell me more?

    Everyone can err, me the first.
    I cannot say you that Iraqi army was better armed than US army. But enough to inflict significant blow to US agressors. Nevertheless, as I said the regime Iraq/Syria select their military personel chieftly their army regarding their regime's loyalibility.
    It does not mean iraqians are more stupid or less inteligent than americans. Furthermore, we don't know the true figures of US losses. They must be more significants.

    Back to Gorbatchov, and watching what he did for Russia, the record is low gloss. Soviet Union was superpower when he came at power, after Yelstsin, Russia looked as worst than an under developped country. Fortunetly now she straighten the head, and is back as it was, and as it desserve.
    If Gorbatchov, Chevardnaze, and Yetlsin's administration betrayed Russia, and russian'people, how can we expect from these leaders to defend Russia's interrest in the world. Especially regarding Iraq's war.


    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26602
    Points : 27142
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:14 am

    Even Iran kicked their asses while being outnumbered.

    Iran greatly outnumbered Iraq... not vice versa... and it ended up more a stalemate than anyone kicking anyone anywhere.


    Back to Gorbatchov, and watching what he did for Russia,

    Gorbachev was 1000x more popular in the west than he was at home, and the irony is that gorby made all his changes... perestroika, glasnost, not to destroy the communist party, but to make it stronger... Gorby was never the leader of Russia. he was the last Soviet leader. Most westerners think he was a shining light for democracy... hahaha.

    Communism as practised in the soviet union had the same basic problems of democracy in the west... small group with all the power and money and land and the majority of the population scraping by at different levels. The west probably had a bigger middle class of comfortable people but the gap is only getting bigger now and many children being born wont be able to afford to buy a house in their lifetime.
    nemrod
    nemrod

    Posts : 832
    Points : 1330
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Gorbachev was 1000x more popular in the west than he was at home, and the irony is that gorby made all his changes... perestroika, glasnost, not to destroy the communist party, but to make it stronger... Gorby was never the leader of Russia. he was the last Soviet leader. Most westerners think he was a shining light for democracy... hahaha.

    Communism as practised in the soviet union had the same basic problems of democracy in the west... small group with all the power and money and land and the majority of the population scraping by at different levels. The west probably had a bigger middle class of comfortable people but the gap is only getting bigger now and many children being born wont be able to afford to buy a house in their lifetime.

    As I said previously, and I maintained, without Russia's help, US and its allies could no longer win a war, even against a little country as Iraq. Gorbatchev helped them in Iraq, and the filthy Yeltsin's adminstration helped USA against Serbia.

    No use to see US army's pitiables performances in Korea, and in Vietnam.
    I heard now they are talking to attack Syria, and Iran, just that...hummmm let's laugh, we will enjoy. This time the war won't be virtual, but real.
    Let's them dream, we will see what next joke!
    nemrod
    nemrod

    Posts : 832
    Points : 1330
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Israel claims : Iron Dome scores 90 percent rocket interception rate

    Post  nemrod on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:47 pm



    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/10/us-palestinians-israel-irondome-idUSKBN0FF0XA20140710

    As usual in such claims, we can easily debunk this ridiculuous lie. A lie that has many political goals, one among them is to represent this so called success in order to avoid a ground invasion that could severly blow an israeli army in deep crisis.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/528916/israeli-rocket-defense-system-is-failing-expert-analysts-say/
    and
    http://listen.sdpb.org/post/rockets-hamas-and-iron-dome-could-use-patching

    This proves again and again that any so called anti-missile'shield protection is a simple dream, selling by lobbies in order to loot the tax payer, especially american tax payer. Untill now a such anti-missile'shield protection merely does not exist, and could not exist.



    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6432
    Points : 6583
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty This is a bit off topic but apparently theirs a MIT professor

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:36 pm

    This is a bit off topic but apparently theirs a MIT professor (Theodore A. Postol Professor of Science, Technology, and National Security Policy Massachusetts Institute of Technology) that claims Israel's "Iron Dome" has a missile interception rate which is much lower than their claimed 84%. Professor Postol compares Iron Dome to the Patriot SAM's in interception success rate. I hadn't had the time to read through it however some people who have read through it are saying that he's making the case that Iron Dome's success rate is less than 20%:

    http://www.magenlaoref.org.il/IndicatorsofIronDomePerformanceMarch122013.pdf
    Mike E
    Mike E

    Posts : 2641
    Points : 2677
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Mike E on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:31 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:This is a bit off topic but apparently theirs a MIT professor (Theodore A. Postol Professor of Science, Technology, and National Security Policy Massachusetts Institute of Technology) that claims Israel's "Iron Dome" has a missile interception rate which is much lower than their claimed 84%. Professor Postol compares Iron Dome to the Patriot SAM's in interception success rate. I hadn't had the time to read through it however some people who have read through it are saying that he's making the case that Iron Dome's success rate is less than 20%:

    http://www.magenlaoref.org.il/IndicatorsofIronDomePerformanceMarch122013.pdf

    Well, I think Iron Dome proves itself with the number of Israelis killed (or lack thereof).

    Sponsored content

    Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems Empty Re: Israeli Anti-Missile Defence Systems

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:30 pm