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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:16 am

    25 seems to be the max for current helicopters.

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 000156
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:09 am

    Nice and flexible... 10, 15, 20, 25... I wonder what options heavier aircraft have like Su-25, Su-24, Su-34...

    I wonder if they will bother with 57mm pods... I would assume they will go for 122mm pods for the S-13 rockets...

    I wonder if they are compatible... so the bottom 5 rockets could be 80mm rockets and the pod above it is a 5 shot pod of 122mm rockets and the top pod, say 20 shot 57mm rocket pods...
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    Post  Hole Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:59 pm

    Looking at the shape of the pod I would say it is made for helicopters, not planes (except the Su-25, maybe).
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:50 am

    Would normally agree but round or flat probably wouldn't make too much difference in terms of aerodynamics... box shaped is probably better for RCS or some such rubbish.

    Putting them on the back of a ute the box shaped ones are probably better too...

    It is possible it could also be designed for drones... in fact the box shape could be incorporated into the aircraft or drone design where it sits fully recessed and is lowered to launch its payload and then retracted back up into the body of the aircraft perhaps?

    With guided rockets then upward angled pods could be used mounted on the back of an aircraft wing or rear fuselage as long as the rocket exhaust is deflected away from soft components like antenna covers etc...

    Certainly on the side of an armoured vehicles turret... manned or otherwise a few of these pods would be interesting with guided rockets allowing max ballistic range to be used...
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:20 am

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    Post  George1 Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:56 am

    Engineering and development work for Ka-52M helicopter to be over in 2022

    https://tass.com/defense/1206301

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    Post  Werewolf Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:48 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    The prevalent issue with the Ka-52 fuselage design protruding right up to the trajectory of the muzzle break which induces this absurd vibrations. The effect on the accuracy and decreased durability of the gun should be obvious.

    The fuselage of the Ka-50 didn't interfere with the muzzle break's redirected exhaust gases, so the flex of the barrel was not bigger than what is already natural for the design of the 2A42. The design itself needs a supporting frame/arm similar to the German Puma IVF. The flex reduction would not only increase the accuracy and durability but also the yaw on the helicopter's flight trajectory, which is more a problem for chin-mounted guns like on Mi-28, AH-64, EC-665 Tigre in cannon engagements outside of the 15° degree of the frontal arc.

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnorthstarmodels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Fpushka_2A42

    The slight tilt of the muzzle break on the Ka-52 was meant to reduce exactly this however it didn't terminate it, but the gun itself, even when very accurate suffers from this issue. The BMPT would also greatly benefit from such  a supporting frame/arm for the 2A42 auto cannon.

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:01 am

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-113
    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-114
    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-115
    Ka-52 launching a Vikhr-1

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:36 am

    Hole wrote:Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-113
    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-114
    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Vihr-115
    Ka-52 launching a Vikhr-1
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    Post  LMFS Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:29 pm

    About modernizations of the Ka-52

    https://iz.ru/1085847/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/ka-byt-obnovlennye-udarnye-vertolety-letiat-na-iug

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:53 am

    Nice... a few interesting things I noticed:

    It was reported that the deeply modernized Kamov combat helicopter will be able to use even longer-range ammunition than the "Vortex" family. It, as well as on the Mi-28NM, will be installed a new light multi-purpose guided missile, known as the"product 305". There was also information about plans to use even longer-range Hermes-A complexes with a range of up to 100 km from these new combat vehicles.

    So product 305 isn't Hermes... it is supposed to have IIR guidance with a two way datalink... which sounded a bit elaborate for Hermes which seems to be optically guided but not so sophisticated (or as expensive perhaps?)... perhaps just simple optical laser target marker detector...

    For better interaction with its troops, the helicopter will be able to automatically interface with the Sagittarius reconnaissance, control and communication complex. Soldiers on the battlefield will be able to quickly and accurately point pilots at the target, as well as designate their positions to avoid erroneous strikes on them.

    So direct contact between troops on the ground and helicopter air crew to mark targets and friendly positions... F-14 pilots used something like this in Afghanistan before they were retired...

    The accuracy of firing of the built-in 30 mm gun will be increased by installing a new digital drive for it. It will help to hold the target more accurately in the sight and provide improved stabilization when shooting.

    Better gun stabilisation should allow for compensating for muzzle brake vibrations... perhaps a new muzzle brake could be developed for the aircraft... there is no hard and fast reason why that particular shape has to be used... something with lots of holes directing the gas away from the airframe but still pulling forward should be possible (ie countering/reducing recoil).

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:13 pm

    Hole wrote:25 seems to be the max for current helicopters.

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 000156

    The use of drones from the rocket pods is particularly interesting. Ideally I would like to see the Zala Aero suicide drones be modified so that they can be shot from these rocket pods. The suicide drones from Zala Aero have max ranges up to 40km, say they were fired from Ka-52M at max altitude/speed you could say the max ranges would be greater than 40km. 60, 80, perhaps even 100km range?

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Russian_k_1597060092

    As shown above, Ka-52M having 6 hardpoints (3 per side) means it can hold 6 '25 shot' rocket pods, with 150 shots in total. Imagine 150 suicide drones attacking OPFOR's SHORAD? But in real life case if the air launched version of Zala Aero suicides drones in these rocket pods managed to reach a new maximum range of 100km, then they would probably be one 25 shot pod on each wing with a total 50 suicide drones, and the rest dedicated to Hermes ATGM. The Zala Aero suicide drones should be very useful for tenderizing an area before the Hermes carries out a strike.

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:37 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Hole wrote:25 seems to be the max for current helicopters.

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 000156

    The use of drones from the rocket pods is particularly interesting. Ideally I would like to see the Zala Aero suicide drones be modified so that they can be shot from these rocket pods. The suicide drones from Zala Aero have max ranges up to 40km, say they were fired from Ka-52M at max altitude/speed you could say the max ranges would be greater than 40km. 60, 80, perhaps even 100km range?

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Russian_k_1597060092

    As shown above, Ka-52M having 6 hardpoints (3 per side) means it can hold 6 '25 shot' rocket pods, with 150 shots in total. Imagine 150 suicide drones attacking OPFOR's SHORAD? But in real life case if the air launched version of Zala Aero suicides drones in these rocket pods managed to reach a new maximum range of 100km, then they would probably be one 25 shot pod on each wing with a total 50 suicide drones, and the rest dedicated to Hermes ATGM. The Zala Aero suicide drones should be very useful for tenderizing an area before the Hermes carries out a strike.

    Are you referring to these?

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Lantse10

    Does it have folding wings?

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/idex/2019/02/18/russias-kalashnikov-unveils-kamikaze-drone/

    "Kalashnikov did not respond to a request for clarification on how the drone delivers its payload to its targets before this article was published. However, Russian media reports elaborate that KUB is, in fact, a suicide drone that detonates itself when in range of the target. With a payload of 3 kilograms, it is probably something akin to a flying grenade. Kalashnikov is displaying a 1:2 scale model of the drone at IDEX. The real KUB is also tiny, sporting dimensions of 1210х950х165 mm, according to the Kalashnikov statement. The drone was developed by Kalashnikov subsidiary ZALA Aero, a major Russian drone manufacturer. Russia still lags behind the U.S. in terms of large strike drones."

    Remember those are some big ass wings I am assuming that 1210mm is the length and 950mm is wings and 165mm is diameter so a 2.290 meter length rocket moter could be attached to the back. But those drones have wide ass wings that if you did fold them backwards they will take alot of room inside the missile and might effect the 40km range it was designed for.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:04 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Are you referring to these?

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Lantse10

    Does it have folding wings?

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/idex/2019/02/18/russias-kalashnikov-unveils-kamikaze-drone/

    "Kalashnikov did not respond to a request for clarification on how the drone delivers its payload to its targets before this article was published. However, Russian media reports elaborate that KUB is, in fact, a suicide drone that detonates itself when in range of the target. With a payload of 3 kilograms, it is probably something akin to a flying grenade. Kalashnikov is displaying a 1:2 scale model of the drone at IDEX. The real KUB is also tiny, sporting dimensions of 1210х950х165 mm, according to the Kalashnikov statement. The drone was developed by Kalashnikov subsidiary ZALA Aero, a major Russian drone manufacturer. Russia still lags behind the U.S. in terms of large strike drones."

    Remember those are some big ass wings I am assuming that 1210mm is the length and 950mm is wings and 165mm is diameter so a 2.290 meter length rocket moter could be attached to the back. But those drones have wide ass wings that if you did fold them backwards they will take alot of room inside the missile and might effect the 40km range it was designed for.

    I suggested a modified version and obviously it would need to 'slim down' but the rocket pods in question seem to be much longer than the Zala Aero drones, so it would need to decrease it's width and increase it's length. As far as the range is concerned (after the design considerations) by launching at max altitude and speed ideally speaking they could reach significantly greater than the ground launched version. If it doesn't exceed 40km range I'd be fine with that too, the main thing I want is munitions that can compliment Hermes airstrikes. I'm less concerned about the drones HE-Frag payload and although a thermobaric warhead would hit harder, I'm more interested in EMP (as well as chaff dipoles) warheads for these drones. Imagine 50 of these swarming drones detonating their EMP warheads above and around enemy SAM's all at the same time, only a minute prior to Hermes ATGM's arriving. I'd liken the air launched Zala Aero suicides drones to a swarm of bees/hornets that distracts the enemy from a charging grizzly bear attack (Hermes).

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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:44 am

    Not a bad idea, though I don't think the Kamov could carry rocket pods on all three pylons... two yes, but I suspect the outer pylons will be reserved for either 4 Verba or 4 Igla-S missiles.

    They have those launch tubes in 80mm and also 122mm, so the scope for flying drones would be interesting... as a suicide drone speed would be useful so smaller swept wings and perhaps a ramjet motor with a tiny solid rocket motor to eject the whole rocket with the ramjet accelerating it up to cruise speed it would be rather interesting...

    Zala also have shown a dedicated drone launcher box carried by the Kamov that drops large flat flying wing type drones... I seem to remember 4 to 5 drones per box that could be released in flight and directed to fly forward into enemy territory to look for targets and threats... in a disposable form with a warhead to take out any single target spotted during the mission.
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    Post  George1 Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:39 am

    Russian Ministry of Defense receives new Ka-52 Alligator combat reconnaissance and attack helicopters

    Russian Aviaton » Friday November 27, 2020 13:22 MSK

    Arsenyev Aviation Company "Progress" named after N.I. Sazykina of the Russian Helicopters holding handed over to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation all the Ka-52 Alligator combat reconnaissance and attack helicopters scheduled for delivery in 2020 in accordance with the terms and conditions of the state contract. This reported by Rostec press-service.

    In addition, the company is currently working on the modernization of the Ka-52 helicopter in conjunction with JSC NCV Mil and Kamov design bureaus.

    “This year was challenging, first of all, from the point of view of the epidemiological situation. Despite the difficulties in the pandemic, we managed not only to fulfill all our obligations under the state contract on time, but also to lift our first modernized Alligator, the Ka-52M, into the sky”, said Yuriy Denisenko, Managing Director of “Progress”.

    The new Ka-52M is equipped with an upgraded optoelectronic system with an increased target detection and recognition range and a new digital drive, which will improve the accuracy of cannon firing. The upgraded Ka-52 also received a new radar system with an active phased antenna array and a long-range guided missile.

    https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2020/11/27/15626/

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:42 am

    I know that the ka-52m is supposed to have an AESA radar but I thought that the ka-52k variant was to have one as well. they even had pictures of it on display with open raydome at one of the recent big weapons forums. what caused the change?
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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:45 am

    George1 wrote:

    Arsenyev Aviation Company "Progress" handed over all the Ka-52 scheduled for delivery in 2020 in accordance with the state contract.

    This means the long term contract has been completed,

    Then more of 140 Ka-52 were delivered (probably 143 , after 3 Ka-52 were lost)
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    Post  mnztr Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:43 am

    What is the cost difference between KA-52 vs MI-28? I heard KA is a lot more but I don't really see why as there is no complexity for the rear rotor offset by a slightly more complex gearbox for the KA.
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    Post  franco Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:52 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    George1 wrote:

    Arsenyev Aviation Company "Progress" handed over  all the Ka-52  scheduled for delivery in 2020 in accordance with  the state contract.

    This means the long term contract has been completed,

    Then more of 140 Ka-52 were delivered (probably 143 , after 3 Ka-52 were lost)

    I have seen a figure of 146 for the Ka-52's total orders.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:12 pm

    I know that the ka-52m is supposed to have an AESA radar but I thought that the ka-52k variant was to have one as well. they even had pictures of it on display with open raydome at one of the recent big weapons forums. what caused the change?

    AFAIK they are totally different in the sense that the Ka-52M is a land based aircraft expected to engage ground targets using Ku and Ka band high frequency radar, while the K model is used in open ocean or landings and uses Ku and Ka band radar but also centimetre longer wave radar that has much better tracking range to much greater distances for ships and aircraft that is less effected by weather and moisture content in the air...

    The new AESA radar for the M operates in a higher frequency range and is more intended for use against ground targets and close air targets, though I would think the introduction of new longer range missiles would require extended detection ranges too.
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    Post  thegopnik Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:01 pm

    Radar information for ka-52K http://www.promweekly.ru/archive/kret/2021/KRET_1-2021.pdf

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Ka-52k10

    "JSC "Corporation" Fazotron-NIIR "in accordance with the state defense order since 2011, has been carrying out serial delivery of on-board radar systems
    (BRLK) FH01 for combat reconnaissance attack helicopters Ka-52 of the Aerospace Forces of the Russian Federation (VKS RF).
    Its export version FH01E is equipped with
    helicopters K-52E for foreign customers. BRLK FH01
    is a dual-band radar
    station (radar) operating in the millimeter and decimeter frequency ranges. She
    provides detection and tracking
    ground and air targets, low-altitude
    flight, warning the pilot about attacking
    helicopter missiles, as well as meteorological
    in the "Meteo" mode. main destination
    combat reconnaissance and attack helicopter Ka-52 - this is fire support for ground
    troops, amphibious assault and suppression of positions
    enemy.
    Along with the serial production of the radar
    FH01 in the Corporation is being modernized in the following main areas:
    ♦ introduction of the synthetic aperture mode into the software of the complex
    in millimeter Ka-range of working
    frequencies for obtaining a higher resolution in radar mapping of the area;
    ♦ introduction of a synthetic aperture mode in the decimeter range to obtain a radar map of the area
    with side view and air attack warning mode;
    ♦ in addition to the existing radar software, a mode of detection of stuck or moving with a small
    helicopter speed;
    ♦ integration with the onboard complex
    defense helicopter blocks L-band from
    composition of the FH01 airborne radar, providing warning of an air attack.
    Currently, the priority area in the Corporation's activities is
    development of a new airborne radar system FH03 for the Ka-52K sea-based combat reconnaissance and attack helicopter.
    The main feature of this complex
    is the combination of a radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR) of the X-frequency range and a modernized radar with a slot antenna array (SHAR) of decimeter
    L-frequency range (Figure 1).
    The X-band radar is a forward looking station with a fixed AFAR with electronically controlled beam deflection in the zone of ± 85
    degrees, and the L-band radar consists of four independent slot antenna arrays,
    located on all sides of the fuselage, creating an all-round view of the space for
    pilot warnings about attacking helicopter
    rockets. Block diagram of the radar
    complex is shown in Figure 2. Additionally, the L-band radar can operate in terrain mapping mode in side view zones, including with the ability
    detection of objects disguised in the forest.
    The FH03 radar, day and night, in simple and difficult weather conditions, will provide the following tasks in the front hemisphere in the ± 85 ° azimuth zone:
    ♦ survey and radar mapping of the sea (earth) surface, detection of the coastline and specified
    landmarks in low, medium and
    high resolution;
    ♦ search and detection of moving and stationary surface (ground) objects
    at ranges up to 250 km;
    ♦ taking for tracking, determination of coordinates and parameters of movement of radio contrast objects;
    ♦ detection and selection of ground and surface moving targets;
    ♦ detection of obstacles such as irregularities
    relief for information support of the obstacle collision warning mode;
    ♦ review of the airspace and detection of air objects in oncoming
    and catch-up courses at ranges over
    100 km;
    ♦ tracking air targets, determining coordinates and parameters of their movement;
    ♦ recognition of the class of air objects;
    ♦ detection of a hovering helicopter;
    ♦ detection of radar contrast
    landmarks, including for the tasks of correcting the flight and navigation complex;
    ♦ detection of dangerous meteorological formations
    at ranges up to 250 km;
    ♦ detection of transponder beacons;
    transmission of information for airborne guided weapons;
    ♦ exchange of information with the onboard radio-electronic equipment of the helicopter,
    including transmission and reception of target designation;
    ♦ increased secrecy of work (one-time mapping mode);
    ♦ determination, together with the state identification equipment of the state
    accessories of the discovered surfaced,
    ground and air objects;
    ♦ issuance of radar information for
    alignment with a digital terrain map.
    The FH03 BRLK provides high operational reliability due to the absence of mechanical moving parts due to the installation
    Antennas with electronic scanning and replacement
    transmitting device to a distributed system of amplification of the probing signal using group transmitting and receiving modules.
    Increase in FH03 radar view area by
    azimuth up to 170 °, as well as the use of radar of the decimeter range for implementation
    side view will allow the Ka-52K helicopter
    carry out practically circular radar surveillance.
    We emphasize that radars operating in the centimeter wavelength range provide
    significantly lower power losses than
    millimeter-wave stations, and
    they are much less affected by the moisture saturation of the environment.
    Therefore, they are best suited
    for equipping sea-based helicopters.
    Onboard radar complex
    FH03 gives the Ka-52K helicopter the ability to conduct long-range radar patrol and increases the range of used
    weapons."

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    Post  LMFS Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:36 pm

    Great find! I have been for a good while wondering how the new radar would be realized in the Ka-52, and it really looks impressive both in sophistication and performance.

    Some pictures from the KRET magazine linked above which are interesting I think:

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Aesa_010

    Figure: 2. Block diagram
    BLK FH03
    Onboard digital computer
    Calculating machine
    Rx - receiver
    ZG - master oscillator
    K - switch
    USM - power amplifier
    FOS-M module - module
    shaping and processing
    signals
    ADC - analog-digital
    converter
    PD - data processor
    PS - signal processor

    I had also wondered whether a curved or multiple angle arrangement could be feasible for an AESA for extended FoV, and we saw some other configurations with rotating active antenna, so this drawing is definitely interesting:

    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force - Page 27 Aesa_011

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    Post  thegopnik Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:55 pm

    What I find cool is that it has like the MIRES kind of set up the Su-57 has using different radars like X and L-band. But it uses the Ka-band for SAR resolution 26.5–40 GHz. Photonic radars have higher resolutions with 100GHz but hey its good to know where they stand and what they are willing to reveal like the ka-27 radar information and now some information on the ka-52Katran. This makes me look forward to the Ka-52M

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    Post  LMFS Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:57 pm

    thegopnik wrote:What I find cool is that it has like the MIRES kind of set up the Su-57 has using different radars like X and L-band. But it uses the Ka-band for SAR resolution  26.5–40 GHz. Photonic radars have higher resolutions with 100GHz but hey its good to know where they stand and what they are willing to reveal like the ka-27 radar information and now some information on the ka-52Katran. This makes me look forward to the Ka-52M

    Sure the Ka-52M with new radar/ ECM suite and new EO systems is going to be quite interesting. The platform was always outstanding, but the technology and systems were simply old. Now they have the opportunity to show what they can do from a technological point of view, and I think it is going to be very really nice.

    As to the SAR, normally this is done with X band radars and gives pretty decent resolution, with Ka band it should be outstanding. With the advantage that the combination of frequencies removes the vulnerability of the Ka band to meteorological conditions. Russians seem to be investing heavily on using multiple bands in their new radar systems, this has a number of advantages among them anti-stealth capability.

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