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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    Hachimoto


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    Post  Hachimoto Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:00 am

    Cyberspec wrote:


    and this....

    At the time, I was working for a newspaper which issued the first joint Russian-American publication entitled "We." Materials were prepared in Moscow and Washington, D.C., and printed in the United States. Color print was not used for weeklies in Russia in the early 1990s. The KA-50 general designer and I decided to write an article about two helicopters - the Russian Kamov vs. the American Apache. We compared the characteristics mentioned in ad booklets. The Shark surpassed the An-64 Apache in cruise speed and some other indicators. The Apache was better fitted our for night operations. This was an unbiased comparison.

    We were very surprised to see the proofs which arrived from Washington. All characteristics of our Ka-50 were downgraded compared to the Apache. They quoted the Shark's cruise speed with Apache' attack speed, which is bound to be higher than in normal flight. We showed these official documents to the Russian editor. He corrected everything in our presence and sent the proofs back to the U.S. But the newspaper was published with the U.S.-preferred figures.

    Can you please put the direct link to the source of this interesting 'quote' study
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:09 am

    You can bet that those western media people looked at the figures the Russians gave and... not knowing anything about aircraft compared them with the Apaches figures and decided they were propaganda and therefore changed them to more conservative numbers that they would describe as being more "realistic".

    They probably thought they were doing right by their readers... cutting through the Russian propaganda and giving the true figures... Rolling Eyes
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:59 am

    If i am not wrong, in one documentary about the Ka-50, Sergey Mikheev has said about exact this happening of Ka-50 in Farnsborough that they had no Visas and where stucked and that he had to consult many of his contacts to draw his last possible aces to get the Ka-50 and their crew,mechanics and whatever they had withem to the "startpoint".

    I guess it was the documentary "Черный призрак" (black ghost).
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    Post  Hachimoto Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:47 pm

    Any details about FLIR system ?
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:20 am

    Hachimoto wrote:Can you please put the direct link to the source of this interesting 'quote' study

    I don't have the direct link. The source is in my original post. The quote should be from some old aviation magazine.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:22 am

    I remember the first time the Ka-50 was displayed in the west... it had been assembled for display but there were important components missing from the main rotor structure so there was no chance of having a flying display that year. I would guess if it was assembled via phone call that they might have simplified the process to make it easier knowing there would be no pilots there to fly it anyway.
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:33 pm

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201303271339-pzk7.htm

    Whole squadron of 12 ka-52 is now operational in Krasnodar region in Southern military district.
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:02 am

    medo wrote:http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201303271339-pzk7.htm

    Whole squadron of 12 ka-52 is now operational in Krasnodar region in Southern military district.

    Nice to hear.
    How much KA-52 in total are current in Russian Forces operating?
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:52 am

    http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/29949.html

    In 2012, Progress made 20 Ka-52s (some of them shipped for assembly at Rostov.)
    Cost per bird was 26 million USD.

    Also 11 Ka-226 were built last year.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:45 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3O801sVuVo

    Awesome Ka-52 video. Good footage of all systems, including Arbalet.
    medo
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    Post  medo Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:14 pm

    Excellent video. It seems Vikhr will be standard ATGM for Ka-52.
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    Post  Werewolf Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:26 pm

    medo wrote:Excellent video. It seems Vikhr will be standard ATGM for Ka-52.

    Hermes-A will come into service 2014/15 maybe later untill than or untill the official active service of Hermes-A they will remain with Vikhr which is today still most powerful,reliable,accurate and has the longest range for Helicopters in service.
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    Mindstorm


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    Post  Mindstorm Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3O801sVuVo

    Awesome Ka-52 video. Good footage of all systems, including Arbalet.



    The two most important avionic elements of Ka-52's, contributing to its enormous potential, are without any doubt :  

    L370-5 "Vitebsk" DAS , capable to cope with any type of missile homing.  







    and "Arbalet" multi-frequency radar , not only  1.5 times superior (both in range and accuracy) to US corresponding "Longbow" helicopter radar in the words of its same designer, but also effectively capable to work as a MAWS.


    http://old.redstar.ru/2008/03/05_03/4_02.html







    Now the open question remain : Mi-28N/NE has been openly neglected in the integration plan of similar DAS and radar suit with the effect of a significative reduction of its export potential in comparison with foreign competitors otherwise markedly inferiors, under a mere parametrical point of view, to Mi-28NE.
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    Post  Austin Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:37 pm

    I read the Mi-28NM now under development and scheduled to be available by 2015 will have all the bells and whistles including MMW radar ,maws etc.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:55 pm

    Still it is perplexing that Mil has been so behind Kamov in these systems.
    We have already seen Mi-28NE demonstrator flying with MAWS sensors, and yet, current examples being delivered to Russian AF do not have them.

    Of course the Mil camp is claiming half of Ka-52s systems don't work, but hey, gotta talk if  you are behind.

    Radar I can understand however, the Ka-52 has a MUCH simpler assembly in the nose.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:40 pm

    Mi-28 could very well be more advanced than Ka-52 simply by having the mmw radar mount on the top but they don't seem to have any other than the ones shown in tests. As long as Ka-52 has its radar mount, and President-S defense suite, it makes it a better helicopter overall. Once Ka-52K is produced and it is fielding the Zhuk-A AESA radar, it will be significantly better than Mi-28, even if it has its radar.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:42 pm

    How is radar being on top more advanced?

    If anything the radar will be gimped in performance since it simply cannot be as big as the Arbalet in Ka-52s nose.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:44 pm

    TR1 wrote:How is radar being on top more advanced?

    If anything the radar will be gimped in performance since it simply cannot be as big as the Arbalet in Ka-52s nose.

    Not more advanced, but gives it 360 degree views rather than having the front the copter always be facing the area of the target.
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:46 pm

    True, though the Ka-52s ability to spin on its axis with extreme speed and easy does negate this somewhat.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:27 am

    Still it is perplexing that Mil has been so behind Kamov in these systems.
    We have already seen Mi-28NE demonstrator flying with MAWS sensors, and yet, current examples being delivered to Russian AF do not have them.

    Both were starved of funds and radars are not cheap.

    Kamov has plenty of experience with radar on helos from the Ka-25 and Ka-27 to the Ka-31 AEW aircraft.

    A big problem with radar on helos is vibration... nose mounted being easier to do than mast mounted.

    Once Ka-52K is produced and it is fielding the Zhuk-A AESA radar, it will be significantly better than Mi-28, even if it has its radar.

    Not really. Only the naval Ka-52K is getting AESA and that is for detecting enemy aircraft and ships at longer range as on the flat ocean they are a much greater threat. Also spotting periscopes and life boats etc is useful too...

    The Mi-28NM will have a 360 degree CM wave radar for air targets, and a 120 degree MMW radar forward looking for ground targets.

    A much more capable radar setup... though more complicated.

    True, though the Ka-52s ability to spin on its axis with extreme speed and easy does negate this somewhat.

    Not something they will be doing as regularly as the Mi-28NMs radar could and much less of a problem to do continuously on listen mode.

    The Ka-52Ks AESA will likely be air to air mostly so it will probably be CM wave band for extra range.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:53 am

    Indeed, AF has so far not shown big interest in AESA on Ka-52....I guess they are happy just to get Arbalet working.

    I am interested in the weight of the set, I suspect that will be an issue.

    Garry I am not aware of the Mi-28NM planning any radar past Arbalet on the top.

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86494&stc=1&d=1118844246

    Interestingly enough Ka-52 used to have a "Arbalet lite" on top of the rotor...and there are other questions:
    In that pic you can see the lower optics system is the Tor system that was replaced on the Kamov, but is used on the Mi-28N.
    The Ka-52 also used to have a TOES-521 FLIR for the pilot, right to the side of the GOES turret, but isn't anywhere to be seen on serial birds. This turret is of course on the serial Mi-28s as well.

    Very confusing picture in terms of what is being bought and with what. On the upside attack helo numbers are probably the best in terms of new equipment, as far as Russia is concerned.
    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:51 pm

    There is a difference between Ka-52 and Mi-28. In Mi-28 pilots sit in their own cockpits, while in Ka-52 they sit side by side and could use same displays. Also Ka-52 have MMW Arbalet radar, with good resolution for ground maping, so he could fly with radar picture, while Mi-28N doesn't have radar and pilot need his EO ball. Arbalet give advantage to Ka-52 in a heavy smoke or fog as well in flying as in target engagement.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:10 am

    The Mi-28NM will have two radar antenna... one forward looking MMW radar with a field of view of about 120 degrees for engaging ground targets, and an antenna in the cm wavelength for searching for aerial targets that can scan 360 degrees.

    On the Kamov they planned a nose mounted MMW radar and a mast mounted air to air radar... the latter seems to have been dropped because of issues with vibration.

    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:16 pm

    I also think Ka-52 doesn't need additional AA radar. Ka-52 itself have very capable ESM suite comparable with Spectra (if we take Spectra as a measure for full ESM suite) and it will detect airborn treat around it without additional radar.
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    Post  Cyberspec Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:32 am


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