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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:00 am

    Russia is way ahead of you, it has agreed with Iran on a rail link through Iran to the Persian gulf so Russia can ship goods through the Caspian Sea to Iran to the rest of Asia or Africa bypassing the Black Sea/Med route.

    They have money for this. They have no money for farmers.

    No money for farmers and no money for nurses who saved them from Covid... what they need to spend money on is exercises that will prove conclusively that HATO can defeat Russia as long as Russia follows the rules in the exercise and shows no initiative and does not use those weapons we can't shoot down or air defences we can't penetrate that will destroy our air power which we so heavily rely on.

    We will fire blanks in the exercise because we have no live ammo left and wont be getting more for some time...

    What I find most interesting is that HATO appears to have conceded Ukrainian territory to Russia... if you look a the map shown Russian territory includes the Crimea and the four regions in the east of Ukraine that have joined the Russian Federation... that is rather interesting and important...

    But what will be more important is how far west that border is going to move over the next year or so.

    Russia should be building an extensive railway network and working on constructing more transport aircraft like An-124 Ruslan to ferry stuff faster across 6000 miles of land. With a 400 ton take off weight it should be able to transport stuff like cars and other freight for cheap across Russia.. 1000s of those will literally cancel the need for ships in Russia and across the world when it comes to Russian shipments.

    Even if they develop a plane that can carry 250 tons like the An-225 and carry that 5,000km, a single cargo ship could carry 1,000 times that... 10,000 times that, and yet still be cheaper than 1,000 of those planes. Shipping is vastly more efficient than flying simply because of the volume of material shipped and the fuel useage in doing so...

    With their investments in icebreakers and new roads and rail links and airfields and upgrading ports and ship building facilities they are expanding their ability to trade with the rest of the world and I think both are going to massively benefit from this.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:34 am

    and the AD of Vietnam was impressive and extensive... even if it was mostly gun based it was rather powerful and I would add effective. wrote:

    It was effective, of course. However, it was incomparably weaker than what Ukraine had. Of course, the US Air Force used much more planes over Vietnam than Russia did over Ukraine. Operation Linebacker, or massive strategic air raids on North Vietnam. In these raids, it used a lot of bombers and tactical planes. It was over 150 B-52 bombers and tactical aviation. The involvement of the air forces was much greater than over Ukraine. It was also the Vietnamese AD and the air force that had many kills.

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    marcellogo
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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 18 Empty Let's say that actually F-22 and F-35A has obtained...

    Post  marcellogo Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:51 pm

    ... a great result, almost destroying the most powerful Air force of the world i.e. the USAF itself.

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 18 2024_i11

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 18 2024_i10

    How we could easily see there.
    How you could see now they have just a bunch of operative planes and most of them are old as hell AND even light/ underpowered compared to the average russian ones.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 10, 2024 8:59 am

    It is important to look at actual force levels rather than paper force levels... as marcellogos post above points out the US numbers are not exactly what you think... and what they could possibly send to Europe to face Russia is another matter too because they will also need aircraft in the Middle East and Asia and of course in the US itself to defend US airspace.

    I mean if the US wants to join in on the Ukraine conflict to save their nazi brothers then they have to realise that the Russians might start launching conventionally armed missiles in their direction too.

    According to that list above 110 F-22s would be likely used in the US with 55 on each coast perhaps... which is not a lot... the Russians can do what HATO is doing now and look at where their air defence planes are and send a few drones to test defences and reaction times and then launch real cruise missiles into the gaps they find.
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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:06 am

    t is important to look at actual force levels rather than paper force levels... as marcellogos post above points out the US numbers are not exactly what you think... and what they could possibly send to Europe to face Russia is another matter too because they will also need aircraft in the Middle East and Asia and of course in the US itself to defend US airspace. wrote:

    There is still the ENTIRE NATO. Besides, the US has many more F-35s than on this list. They also have F-18s in their fleet. The US and NATO air forces currently have no competitors. In this respect, the West has a significant advantage. Even considering that not all machines are airworthy, etc. Of course, in the event of a large W, some of them will certainly not even take off from airports, they will be destroyed by hypersonic missiles.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Aug 10, 2024 11:44 am

    Arrow wrote:
    There is still the ENTIRE NATO. Besides, the US has many more F-35s than on this list. They also have F-18s in their fleet. The US and NATO air forces currently have no competitors. In this respect, the West has a significant advantage. Even considering that not all machines are airworthy, etc. Of course, in the event of a large W, some of them will certainly not even take off from airports, they will be destroyed by hypersonic missiles.

    You are missing the main point.
    What is the case here, is a fact that nafo herd lives in a bubble of delusion where murica is an almighty superpower with no real adversary.
    It is totally and utterly bullshit.
    The numbers provided are taken straight from their arses and have nothing to do with the real ones.
    Even if combined with F/A-18, it will turn out that the US operates in a range of 1500 planes of all types. Including bombers.
    This number is still impressive, but that number would be quite similar to the Russia operated.
    The numbers formally given for them is about 800 fighters and 600 attack planes.
    What is more shocking, the bulk of the US planes are much older than Russian ones, which means perfectly what it means.
    If we will consider the number and scope of air defense assets, it would be like beating a dead horse - US operate a pathetic air defense which are not even a match to the Soviet originated ones. And those are four decades old...
    If compared to the systems that were designed and acquired in Russia, the situation becomes devastating. Russkie AD is a serious force multiplier.
    Last but not least, while US arsenal must be spread across entire planet, Russkie can accumulate entire fleet at two directions only.
    Things looks much different from the common opinion, which was created on myths and propaganda.

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    JohninMK
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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 18 Empty Temp US air power realistic assessment

    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 10, 2024 1:10 pm

    Shouldn't these last few posts be an a US thread? They will be lost here.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 10, 2024 1:41 pm

    There is still the ENTIRE NATO

    An entire HATO that has taken 2.5 years to struggle to send a dozen old F-16s to the Ukraine.

    Who is going to fly their aircraft close to Russian air defences first?

    Plus fighting Ukraine is one thing but fighting all of HATO means the gloves are off so airfields nuked and military bases nuked too.... and with hypersonic attack missiles the vast majority of them will hit their targets... in comparison less than 20% of HATO missiles are likely to reach their target areas...

    The Ukraine conflict, whether you believe it or not, is a rescue mission to save Ukrainian Russian speakers from a nazi dictatorship.

    A conflict with HATO is the start of WWIII so population centres become legitimate targets in countries that tolerate the armies of the US and other countries with no legitimate reason to be there.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Aug 11, 2024 11:16 pm

    The numbers formally given for them is about 800 fighters and 600 attack planes. wrote:

    600 attack aircraft? Where does this number come from? I've seen a number of around 350 at most. It should be added that Russia's strategic aviation is also younger. Very Happy

    If we will consider the number and scope of air defense assets, it would be like beating a dead horse - US operate a pathetic air defense which are not even a match to the Soviet originated ones. And those are four decades old... If compared to the systems that were designed and acquired in Russia, the situation becomes devastating. Russkie AD is a serious force multiplier. wrote:

    Right
    In general, since the beginning of the Cold War, the USSR has placed great priority on AD systems. Already in the 1950s, they were building a huge AD for Moscow and then other cities. They developed them throughout the decades of the Cold War. Now they have the best AD in the world. The West had a different doctrine and the priority was always the air force, which was to bear the entire burden of defense and attack. However, the Russians focused on both strong AD and aviation, which complement each other. From today's perspective, this turned out to be a very good solution. The West, on the other hand, has a huge gap in AD systems. Relying solely on air forces for defense is a bad idea. They are vulnerable to missile and drone attacks themselves. The current multi-layer AD can combat many advanced threats that air forces cannot cope with. For example, drones or ballistic and hypersonic missiles.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:59 am

    The western doctrine was attack, it was colonially based and involved making things mobile so you can flit from third world country to third world country seizing resources and putting down uprisings by pretending they are defending the world from communism, when in fact it was all white european colonialism that was the problem.

    The Soviets and Russians naturally developed defences to defend themselves... it is pretty obvious who the actual aggressor was.

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