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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:49 pm

    The bomb has to be small so that the pilot can carry it to the target after his plane has been shot down.  Laughing
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:53 pm

    That makes sense!
    In this scenario we can exclude both the pilot and the plane, and just send some terrorists ... oh my bad, freedom fighters, to plant an atomic IED.

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:16 pm

    ALAMO wrote:That makes sense!
    In this scenario we can exclude both the pilot and the plane, and just send some terrorists ... oh my bad, freedom fighters, to plant an atomic IED.

    This would force Russia to fire some strategic weapons at pindostan.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:18 pm

    Why so rude?
    Why strategic?
    A nice salvo of few 20kT rounds will be just fine Laughing
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:37 am

    They have the god of the sea at their command... and it would be interesting to see what it could achieve...
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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:06 pm

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 17 Image-17
    NATO claims to be the Yosemite Sam of alliances but the war in Ukraine is showing what it really is.

    1. A bunch of small countries. Their armies number 2,000 but, taking wokeness, diversity, recruiting shortfalls, pregnancy leave and physical fitness into account, they can field 600. They possess 100 major weapons but, taking incompetent storage, broken parts and maintenance problems into account, they can field 40 of them
    2. A bunch of medium-size countries. Their armies number 20,000 but, taking wokeness, diversity, recruiting shortfalls, pregnancy leave and physical fitness into account, they can field 6,000. They possess 500 major weapons but, taking incompetent storage, broken parts and maintenance problems into account, they can field 200 of them.
    3. One big country. Its army numbers 200,000 but, taking wokeness, diversity, recruiting shortfalls, pregnancy leave and physical fitness into account, it can field 60,000. (Given the enormous number of bases that have to be manned, probably not). It possesses 5,000 major weapons but, taking incompetent storage, broken parts and maintenance problems into account, it can field 2,000 of them. (And this stuff is scattered all over the place). Some of its rulers want to fight Russia, some want to fight Germany and some want to fight China – but they’re sure they can do all three at once.
    4. Nobody has more than a month or two of ammunition and, actually, a lot less than that because they’ve give so much to Ukraine and it’s all gone. Somewhere.
    5. All this costs more than you can imagine.
    6. These countries’ GDPs are the sum of lawyers’ fees, financial flim-flam, fake numbers, real estate commissions, payoffs to politicians and non-stop printing presses. The only one of them that actually makes anything is going bust.
    7. “Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”

    By Helmholtz Smith

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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:10 pm

    The guy's views on Putin and Russia's internal matters are typical western nonsense.
    But he is on point when talking about the U.S and European policies/intent.



    He is one of these believers in the "West $tr0nk", this is in order to focus on the enemy within.
    Sadly, all this will just lead to the West's external and internal defeats.
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    Post  walle83 Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:26 pm

    NATO starts its biggest air force exercise ever. "Air defender 23" is placed in several nations in western europe and will include 250 fighters and attack aircrafts from 25 nations. 100 aircrafts from the US has been flown in to train with thier european allies.
    The exercise has been planned for 4 years.

    https://www.dw.com/en/nato-air-defender-23-is-its-biggest-exercise-ever/a-65872291
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:41 pm

    I post this as a general point. The border is not quite right and mainly this is US access/upgrading (to NATO standards) of existing Finnish military sites.

    I'd lay good money that a lot of what used to be known as 'eavesdropping' equipment will be on its way, if not already there. In a way replicating the bases in NE Turkey and Cyprus.

    Richard
    @ricwe123
    An agreement between the US and Finland has been reached to create 15 new US bases within Finland, some positioned right on the Russian border.

    Additionally, the US will have specific facilities under "exclusive access"

    Making Europe more 'safe'

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:52 pm

    Compare that to Russia (SU) which after the beginning of the 1950´s had never any bases in Romania or Bulgaria despite
    those countries being members of the Warsaw Treaty.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:28 am

    Those three bases on the coast at the bottom of Finland... there are likely three or four more along that same coast in Estonia.

    Doesn't really matter... when the money stops everything else will too so more bases means more money spent.
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:36 am

    Somewhere under the Ural mountains a dude has stopped reading a novel and typed 15 coordinates in a Soviet computer...

    This move changes nothing for the Russians. Russia has tens of thousands of nuclear warheads they can mate to their bottomless missile stocks. Finland won't even make an appreciable dent in the magazine despite offering itself up as cannon fodder. Razz

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:08 am

    Yeah, they don't need the land to make it easier to defend St Petersburg from Germany, all they need is to eliminate any threat from US forces in Europe... and as mentioned... that is 15 new sets of coordinates... and considering the distances they don't even need to break the INF treaty to hit such targets.

    I just had a play with Google Maps and there really is nowhere in Finland that is further than 500km from Russian territory... but even if there was Russia could simply launch Kinzhals and Iskanders with nuclear warheads at each of the 15 new targets with a warning that any response would lead to population centres in Finland getting the same treatment.

    Finland has made it clear that Russia is their enemy so there is no reason to preserve the population if they are not bothered by the hostile situation their government has created between the two countries.

    If Russia attacks Finland it wont be to liberate or save the population from criminal leadership, it will be self defence regarding US forces in country and if Finland objects and becomes a threat then their main cities can be hit too. If they want to gather sub machine guns and disappear into their forests then they can do that... Russian troops have no reason to enter Finnish territory... if they want to become guerillas in Russian territory well Russia can destroy a town or village till they stop...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:30 am

    Well it's not that Finland has a high population anyway.

    But the INF treaty is not relevant anymore since 2019 .And also it didn't make much sense now, since the other nuclear powers (China, France, UK, India, Pakistan) could have intermediate range missiles.

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    Post  Backman Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:Those three bases on the coast at the bottom of Finland... there are likely three or four more along that same coast in Estonia.

    Doesn't really matter... when the money stops everything else will too so more bases means more money spent.

    It looks like the US is doing everything it can to provoke Russia in Finland. What if the US decides to stock US nuclear weapons in Finland ? They will probably have F-35 bases which are nuke carriers. Russia cannot allow that. What about Agis ashore ? 

    Russia should draw up plans to bomb these sites for the future. What would the US do ? They won't be able to attack Russia land in Finland. The terrain is swamp.

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    Post  Swgman_BK Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:52 pm

    It looks like the US is doing everything it can to provoke Russia in Finland. What if the US decides to stock US nuclear weapons in Finland ? They will probably have F-35 bases which are nuke carriers. Russia cannot allow that. What about Agis ashore ? Russia should draw up plans to bomb these sites for the future. What would the US do ? They won't be able to attack Russia land in Finland. The terrain is swamp. wrote:


    I personally believe the NATO threat is overplayed and overplaying it any further is gonna produce more conflict than is necessary.🤔 Russia is perfectly safe from NATO aggression as it stands. Remember we live in an era of ICBMs with MIRVs on them. So what if F35s are stationed next to Russia? Russia can still reach the US with ICBMs without lifting off a single bomber or airplane from Russian bases. There's SLBMs laying in wait somewhere in the worlds oceans waiting for the order to fire Bulavas at every single NATO member state from anywhere in the world. If I was Putin, I would only focus on making my current inventory unbeatable and impossible to intercept and then stay out of the arms race. Perhaps reduce the defense budget and redirect the funds to technology improvement and the research and development of Super weapons with a far more destructive potential than the nukes that exist. NATO being on Russia's border frankly means nothing. NATO hasn't the guts to try what they did in Iraq or Libya with Russia.. The only thing you could say would bother Russia is increased surveillance from NATO platforms on Russian assets in Russia. Eg Flying NATO AWACs in NATO member's airspace (Finland, Estonia etc) in order to perform SIGINT operations on Russian radars and fighter jets during training sessions. As well routinely invading Russian airspace to get a response from Russia and quickly head out of the airspace when an intercept starts. But even for this, Russia could simply do the training sessions far into the heart of Russia. Near Siberia rather than on NATO member state's borders. I do not see a chance of Russia being attacked by NATO. I definitely do not see Russia attacking NATO outside of maybe shooting down an intruding F16, F35 or E2 Hawkeye/P8 Poseidon.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:07 am


    But the INF treaty is not relevant anymore since 2019 .And also it didn't make much sense now, since the other nuclear powers (China, France, UK, India, Pakistan) could have intermediate range missiles.


    Yeah, I know, what I was saying was that the Iskander hypersonic missiles they couldn't intercept before are already good enough to get this new job done, they don't have to develop a new missile or system and then go through the expense of producing and deploying it... existing missiles already in the inventory can do the job and thanks to the conflict in the Ukraine they know no western SAM can shoot it down so instead of launching 45 missiles with three at each target they could probably fire the bare 15 and watch for the results... the flight times will be so short they could confirm kills and then launch extra missiles if there was a problem.

    One battery near St Petersburg and one up near Murmansk... they probably wouldn't need to reload.

    Well it's not that Finland has a high population anyway.

    They will know the useful population centres to level if they are forced to do it I suspect but I would think unless the Fins get really toxic that there are other targets they would rather hit first.

    It looks like the US is doing everything it can to provoke Russia in Finland. What if the US decides to stock US nuclear weapons in Finland ? They will probably have F-35 bases which are nuke carriers. Russia cannot allow that. What about Agis ashore ?

    If the Fins want to allow that then of course that just increases the number of mushroom clouds on day one in their country... it just makes everything rather simple... airbases with F-35s which are nuclear capable becomes a strategic threat that would be rather more a high priority target than many other targets in the region.

    If I was Putin, I would only focus on making my current inventory unbeatable and impossible to intercept and then stay out of the arms race.

    Putting nuke capable F-35 in Finland is an escalation and if you do nothing then they will keep pushing till they get the outcome they were hoping for.

    Ironically they are hoping for either Putin to back down or be overthrown... they don't understand that he can do what he did with the Ukraine... not that I think he would.

    I suspect he would close borders with Finland completely and close embassies of both sides because obviously there is no point talking to Finland when it is now America pulling their strings.

    Perhaps reduce the defense budget and redirect the funds to technology improvement and the research and development of Super weapons with a far more destructive potential than the nukes that exist.

    Most of those technologies would be funded by the defence MIC. The most destructive technology is probably bio and chemical warfare related but you have to be careful you don't doom us all with that sort of stuff.

    This is just a case of HATO trying to bully Russia, but it is a weakling trying to bully a tough kid thinking his gang is with him and will protect him or that his parent is there and will save him.

    Finlands' problem is that daddy has a gambling addiction and he is about to lose the house and his job and the big tough daddy that was going to protect them might start needing their help just to eat and sleep inside.

    Putin will do what he has done in the past, decide on a countermeasure that does not hurt Russia more than it hurts the other guy (the critical step the west ignores to its misfortune) and then feel better that his decision to turn east and south was the right one because these westerners and northerners are censored .
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    Post  Swgman_BK Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:45 pm

    Putting nuke capable F-35 in Finland is an escalation and if you do nothing then they will keep pushing till they get the outcome they were hoping for. wrote:

    Maybe the outcome they want is Putin doing something about it to make a bigger situation out of this and use it to get rid of Russia.. After all this is exactly what they had planned for Cuba is it not. Keep pestering Cuba until they shoot down a spying US aircraft in their airspace and then declare war on Cuba.. I mean think about it, How else are they gonna accomplish splitting Russia into parts that the West can then influence better? Coups sure aren't working.. So war is next. The US is trying to have SOSUS extend to the rest of the worlds Oceans so she can keep track of Russian nuclear submarines and be behind them. The US is trying to create a global integrated ABM system to track Russian, Chinese ICBMs and SLBM launches and intercept them before they reach the US. Basically having Japan based interceptors that can detect a Chinese ICBM take off from China and then determine its apogee to intercept it there.. Long before it reaches the US. This is why the Avangard was made. Its path cant be tracked successfully.. As well as the DF-17. So If we are bieng frank, It works in Russia's favor to ignore Western provocations that aren't direct declarations of war. Russia still maintains the ability to vaporize the entirety of NATO and NATO acknowledges it. Russia will have less to worry about if she treats the West like a ranting kid without the guts to do what they are ranting about..
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    Post  Swgman_BK Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:51 pm

    Putin will do what he has done in the past, decide on a countermeasure that does not hurt Russia more than it hurts the other guy (the critical step the west ignores to its misfortune) and then feel better that his decision to turn east and south was the right one because these westerners and northerners are . wrote:

    The best countermeasure is to ensure that Russian can end every life in America at the very mention of it. That will be enough to keep the US at bay. Nothing else is really needed. This alone will secure Russian borders. Even if Russia called off her army, no one would invade. Not with certain doom promised by Russia. The West needs to be ignored. Russia gives them too much importance.. Russia should focus on not needing anyone else and bieng a massive microeconomy that supplies and feeds itself all it needs without the need for external partners..An Autarky if you will..
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:00 am

    Maybe the outcome they want is Putin doing something about it to make a bigger situation out of this and use it to get rid of Russia..

    They are in no position to get rid of Russia?

    Their actions escalate but they don't know how to deescalate... which is incredibly dangerous for the west... Russia is currently fighting in Syria and Ukraine and seems to be doing a rather competent job of it. Compare that to the fiascos the west has played around at the last few decades... broken country after broken country.... a trail of chaos in their wake despite promises to fix everything... they fix nothing and leave in defeat.

    I think Kievs performance in the Ukraine shows HATO is a paper tiger that is inflexible and doesn't know how to fight Russia at all.

    Most of the countries in HATO have economic problems and are in debt because interest rates were so low they borrowed rather than saved or invested and now they have sent most of their ammo and weapons to Kiev they are likely in no place to take on anyone else let alone Russia.

    I very much believe western politicians think they can strong arm Russia, but I don't think Russia agrees any more and the belief of western politicians is not worth shit.

    Their super weapons and super sanctions were sent in one by one and failed one by one and they don't have anything left that is not going to hurt them more than it hurts Russia.

    Their final nuclear option is to seize Russian assets in their jurisdiction which of course obviously is going to lead directly to Russia seizing and taking ownership of western assets in Russia which is probably in the Trillions... in fact perhaps Russia is in the background suggesting it to the nuttier Euro idiots and Clinton and Biden supporters in the hope they will cross that line for Russia to really get the 5th columnists out for good.

    After all this is exactly what they had planned for Cuba is it not. Keep pestering Cuba until they shoot down a spying US aircraft in their airspace and then declare war on Cuba..

    Cuba did shoot down a recon plane over their territory and in the end the US ended up taking its nuclear missiles out of Turkey like the Soviets wanted in the first place. Dress it up any way you like but the Soviets got what they wanted and Cuba got an assurance that the US would not invade so they would be happy too.

    I mean think about it, How else are they gonna accomplish splitting Russia into parts that the West can then influence better? Coups sure aren't working.. So war is next.

    It is vastly more likely to split up HATO and the EU than split up Russia... there are old scores to settle...

    The US is trying to have SOSUS extend to the rest of the worlds Oceans so she can keep track of Russian nuclear submarines and be behind them.

    That would be incredibly expensive to set up and maintain... have they even renewed the GIUK gap system yet?

    The US is trying to create a global integrated ABM system to track Russian, Chinese ICBMs and SLBM launches and intercept them before they reach the US.

    They haven't even gotten close to a system to track and that is the easy part... several new Russian ICBMs enter earth orbit and can be launched over the south pole instead of the north pole where all of Americas defences are facing. Looking south the US is blind. And new systems like Thunderbird and Poseidon can come from any direction at any time.

    Basically having Japan based interceptors that can detect a Chinese ICBM take off from China and then determine its apogee to intercept it there.. Long before it reaches the US.

    Good for them... but how do they defend against depressed trajectory much shorter ranged missiles aimed at Japans radars for tracking the long range missiles?

    A Chinese SSBN parked off the coast of Japan could launch an SLBM from 600km that will destroy its target in less than 3 minutes and then all those land and sea based longer ranged missiles are free to take America down.

    We have seen that Patriot can't deal with Iskander or Kh-32 or Dagger or a range of other missiles... they weren't even very good against cruise missiles and low flying drones. What does Japan have to keep them safe so they can be forward observer for the US?

    This is why the Avangard was made. Its path cant be tracked successfully.. As well as the DF-17. So If we are bieng frank, It works in Russia's favor to ignore Western provocations that aren't direct declarations of war.

    The western military know they are not safe from Russian weapons big or small. It works in Russias favour to stand up to the bully and call his obvious bluff because when he starts crying his gang are going to realise what a pathetic little selfish prick he really is as he throws them under the bus to avoid getting hurt himself... they way they are currently doing with Ukrainians.

    Russia still maintains the ability to vaporize the entirety of NATO and NATO acknowledges it.

    They are starting to realise that the huge push they gave didn't move Russia and now they are doubting their own strength and ability to endure... but we always knew that would be a problem. They are currently looking for a way out but at the moment they still think they can dictate terms to Russia and Russia has clearly decided the west and Kiev can't be trusted and only an unconditional surrender is going to cut it.

    Russia will have less to worry about if she treats the West like a ranting kid without the guts to do what they are ranting about..

    The problem is that kid has a knife and a gun and it wont matter later on if he is really really sorry... Russia can't just ignore him.

    The best countermeasure is to ensure that Russian can end every life in America at the very mention of it. That will be enough to keep the US at bay. Nothing else is really needed.

    Americans will always believe they are better and they will think most Russian missiles will fail... like they haven't in this conflict in the Ukraine or they didn't in Syria either, and they will always believe they will prevail with US know how and technology... their ABM will stop everything even though it fails in the simplest tests.

    Russia should focus on not needing anyone else and bieng a massive microeconomy that supplies and feeds itself all it needs without the need for external partners..

    I agree Russia should ensure it can make things it needs.... essentials.... but also to trade with the world and sell to them the things they need and from them buy things Russia might want. Joint projects are good when both groups benefit and grow from the results. Forget western focus on money at all costs. Develop cures and treatments. Medicine should be government funded and the government should own the resulting drugs that can be distributed to those who need them with only a very small markup in price to cover costs. The focus on cures over treatments to get people healthy and working and living again should be a human right, along with education and a safe warm comfortable place for everyone to live and a job that has value and provides an income that allows you to live in comfort.

    The 1950s US was better because more of the income generated by a company went to its workers and the guys in charge only got slightly more. These days the guys at the top get most of the money and investors get the rest and the people actually working generating the income get minimum wage and probably do overtime and have extra jobs just to pay their bills.

    The west is broken, Russia and the rest of the world should learn from their mistakes and do it better.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:18 pm

    They have money for this. They have no money for farmers.

    NATO military preparations.

    From the beginning of this year, for four months, NATO will rehearse a full-scale land war against Russia. To this end, the alliance will combine a series of large-scale maneuvers, operational and tactical exercises, and cyber activities, in the interests, as Western experts say, of simulating the “battlefield” on the future “Eastern Front” from Finland to Romania.
    In January-February, a major NATO military exercise, Firm Approval 24, will take place in eastern Europe. The second part of the exercise is scheduled for May.

    In Latvia, the Winter-24 exercise will start in mid-January.
    In Estonia, in January-February, the “Winter Camp-24” exercise will be held at the Tapa training ground, in which the Estonian Armed Forces and a NATO Enhanced Forward Presence (EFP) battle group will be involved.

    From February 28 to April 21, Poland, the Baltic countries, Bulgaria, Romania, Finland, Germany, and Sweden will be the arena for this year’s largest multinational exercise “Defender of Europe-24” in Europe. Approximately, about 50 thousand military personnel, 500-700 aircraft and more than 50 ships will be involved in them.

    Against the background of the Defender of Europe-24 exercises, the Steadfast Defender 2024 exercises will be held in Germany, Poland and the Baltic countries, the NATO Naval Forces Arctic Dolphin-24 exercises will be held in the North and Norwegian Seas, and multinational exercises will be held in Norway, Sweden and Finland “Northern Response-24” and the Finnish Air Force exercise “Vihuri-24”.

    In Germany, from February to April, the national exercise “Quadriga-24” will be held with the involvement of more than 12 thousand military personnel. During the exercises, a massive transfer of German troops will be carried out to Lithuania, Hungary, Norway and Romania. It is noted that the “highlight” of “Quadriga-24” will be the “Big Quadriga” exercise in May, during which the 10th Tank Division in Lithuania will practice “deployment” and joint combat operations with NATO mechanized units.
    The above maneuvers will gradually be overgrown with dozens of other exercises involving hundreds of thousands of military personnel, which we will discuss in future publications.

    https://t.me/vicktop55/20093

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:50 pm

    This is apparently Newsweek so may well be puff, they claim it is linked to F-18 supply to Turkey. EDIT Should be F-16 of course.

    Mats Nilsson
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    Breaking: Turkey surrendered in the Black Sea War after Blinken's visit and threats.

    US & UK ships can pass for operations in the Black Sea.

    The agreement will be signed this week in Istanbul with Romania and Bulgaria with NATO countries also invited.


    Last edited by JohninMK on Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This is apparently Newsweek so may well be puff, they claim it is linked to F-18 supply to Turkey.

    Mats Nilsson
    @mazzenilsson
    ·
    8h
    Breaking: Turkey surrendered in the Black Sea War after Blinken's visit and threats.

    US & UK ships can pass for operations in the Black Sea.

    The agreement will be signed this week in Istanbul with Romania and Bulgaria with NATO countries also invited.

    A bunch of crap. They just said they will forbid the entrence of mineswipers for ukraine and f-18 are not interesting for Turkey.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:18 pm

    Isos wrote:

    A bunch of crap. They just said they will forbid the entrence of mineswipers for ukraine and f-18 are not interesting for Turkey.

    I agree and thanks for spotting the F-18 typo mistake by me. I meant F-16. Now corrected.
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    Post  Swgman_BK Tue Jan 09, 2024 10:56 pm

    I dont know how Russia does things. NATO is clearly afraid to confront Russia but they want to blockade Russia somewhat. Instead of focusing on threatening neighbors, Russia should be building an extensive railway network and working on constructing more transport aircraft like An-124 Ruslan to ferry stuff faster across 6000 miles of land. With a 400 ton take off weight it should be able to transport stuff like cars and other freight for cheap across Russia.. 1000s of those will literally cancel the need for ships in Russia and across the world when it comes to Russian shipments. Developing the arctic route was a good idea. Murmansk cannot be blockaded and could serve as a good port again.. Its time Russia went further towards the far East and developed it to reduce the amount of trade that moves out of the Black Sea.. At least this is what I would do. Kepp a tiny fleet of corvettes armed with missiles and maybe 4 submarines in black sea area. Then send my carriers and submarine fleet towards Murmansk, near Alaska and towards Vladivistok..

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