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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:42 am

    For anti ship role it has a great potentiel. Great range with great missiles in big numbers.

    Having 12 of them to protect your country is a cheap and good solution. While su 30 are more expensive you keep them for air interdiction or interception.

    Having multirole fighters is not that good. Rafale for exemple is good for everything and it is supposed to replace 7 fighters in french air force and navy. But its price doesn't allow you to replace 7 fighters with 7 rafales. So when an army wants to have only multi role fighters it will reduce the number by a lot. Now french air force has issues with numbers when it sends 4 rafale in the middle east and 4 more in africa they reach their limits.

    kopyo-21

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  kopyo-21 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:56 pm

    If I am not wrong, Su-34 is more expensive in both acquisition, operation & maintainace than Su-30SM and Su-30MK2.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:39 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:If I am not wrong, Su-34 is more expensive in both acquisition, operation & maintainace than Su-30SM and Su-30MK2.

    I don't think so. Su-30sm is much more advanced with much more expensive technology. Su-34 was developed by the soviet.

    kopyo-21

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  kopyo-21 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:45 am

    The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html


    Last edited by kopyo-21 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:09 am; edited 1 time in total

    walle83

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  walle83 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:48 am

    Isos wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:If I am not wrong, Su-34 is more expensive in both acquisition, operation & maintainace than Su-30SM and Su-30MK2.

    I don't think so. Su-30sm is much more advanced with much more expensive technology. Su-34 was developed by the soviet.

    The Su-34 was developed by Russia. Just becouse the first airframe was first put together in the 1980s does not meen that it does not contain modern equipment and systems.
    If you would look at it like that the Su-30 was also developed by the Soviet union. The first flight was back in 1989. Su-34 first flight was in 1990.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:57 am

    The Su-34 is a far more capable aircraft in the strike role.... think of it being an F-111 type rather than a modified fighter (ie F-15E).

    The modified shape of the Su-34 allows rather more internal space for bits and bobs and improves communication between crewmen during operations.
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    MC-21

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  MC-21 on Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:35 pm

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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:38 am

    Great, recon pod with radar....forgot the designation of the pod. It was talked about a few years ago
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:56 am

    It might be a modernized M400 recon pod.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 am

    Nice.... looks like flat sides... I seem to remember the original ones shown were not flat sided...

    kopyo-21

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  kopyo-21 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 am

    MC-21 wrote:

    This is URK-RL side-looking SAR pod. This is one of three reconnaissance pods developed for Su-34R as a part of "Сыч" project (Su-34M). They are URK-RL (radar location) pod, URK-EO (electronic optical) pod and URK-RT (radio technical) pod.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:29 pm

    Sukhoi transferred a 1st batch of Su-34 aircraft to the Russia MoD in 2018. Aircraft took off from the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant V.P. Chkalov airport (Tolmachevo) & flew to the site of their deployment.

    http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5954
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 pm

    George1 wrote:Sukhoi transferred a 1st batch of Su-34 aircraft to the Russia MoD in 2018. Aircraft took off from the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant V.P. Chkalov airport (Tolmachevo) & flew to the site of their deployment.

    http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5954

    The Sukhoi Company has transferred the next generation of new serial front-line bombers Su-34

    Moscow, January 12, 2018. Today, the company "Sukhoi" transferred the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation the next batch of Su-34 front bombers in the framework of the state defense order of 2017 . The aircraft took off from the aerodrome of the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant. V.P. Chkalov and went to the site of his deployment



    This are the two "lost" airplanes of the plan of 2017 that are transferred with several days of delay. (the administrative act of acceptance of the product was in December within the term of the calendar year of whose planning they are part)
    Better not to make much case of bmpd that copy of Russian forums but copy wrong

    The No. 35 and No. 36 returned from Syria at the end of December, they are not the new airplanes handed over on November 18. There was a rotation of airplanes between those deployed in Syria

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:52 am

    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:50 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:59 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane

    yes you can taking into account PPP.  2,83 trillions rubles is ~ 50 blns usd  If Russian fghters are more less (after your correction) still 2x then you got 100blns USD equivalent not bad at all.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 am

    Su-30SM is not really comparable to new model western fighters... better comparison would be Su-35, but I suspect its price would not be more than 60mil per aircraft, so it still stacks up reasonably well.

    Of course an accountant will argue that the west can afford more 100 million dollar aircraft than Russia can afford 50 million dollar aircraft, but of course the needs of an invader are always greater than the needs of someone interested in self defence...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:53 am

    The planes are rather cheap for Russia as mentioned since they make them. But plus the profit margins by % is small too.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Kimppis on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:09 pm

    I think AMCXXL was talking about potential foreign customers in regards to $50 million and/or 2013's exchange rate. They are obviously not that expensive for the Russian military currently, IN TODAY'S EXCHANGE RATE. And again, Russia's PPP GDP is closer to 3 times bigger than its nominal GDP, not 2 times. So closer to $150 billion, not $100 billion, a considerable difference. And yes, I know I keep repeating myself, but it needs to be pointed out. Even with 2013's exchange rate Russia's current NOMINAL military budget would be around $80 billion, and even back then Russia's PPP GDP was considerably higher.

    GarryB wrote:Of course an accountant will argue that the west can afford more 100 million dollar aircraft than Russia can afford 50 million dollar aircraft, but of course the needs of an invader are always greater than the needs of someone interested in self defence...

    The price levels are simply very different. Russian military doesn't spend "dollars", the exchange rate is irrelevant.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:Su-30SM is not really comparable to new model western fighters... better comparison would be Su-35, but I suspect its price would not be more than 60mil per aircraft, so it still stacks up reasonably well.



    hmm and what precisely F-15, Eurofighter or Rafale has  is not comparable to Su-30SM?
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:54 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane

    Wow , nice finding.

    Then the fighter jet exchange rate ( f/A-18 vs Su-34) will be 22 rubel/$.

    If the current su34 price is 2000 million rubell.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:02 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane

    Wow , nice finding.

    Then the fighter jet exchange rate ( f/A-18 vs Su-34) will be 22 rubel/$.

    If the current su34 price is 2000 million rubell.

    In 2012 when the contract was signed doller/ruble ws 1:28 to 1:32 (we can take 1:30)
    In 2017 dollar/ruble is about 1:55 to 1:60 , this is the half

    In 2012 the price of one Su-34 was  140.000/92= 1522 M Rb or 51 Million $
    That the Exchange rate is the half does not means the airplane cost is the half.
    This is a mistaken way of think (typical of Weesterners that think they are the center of the world)
    Russia pays in Rubles the military hardware produced by themselves inside Rusia.
    Also in the west the airplanes are produced for private corporations, as more expensive the better, to win, the more money the better at the cost of robbing the taxpayer
    While in Russia is controlled by the state for spent as less money posible. Russia pays the cost of manofacture in most cases , not a Price of market.

    With a inflaction rate of only 10% in 5 or 6 years the cost today can be more of 2400 MRb (currently 45 M$), but I dont know if has been published the exact ammount of money that pays each year the MoD for the Su-34 .

    Is necesary to know how many money is going to pay Algeria for the Su-34 for have a reasonable comparison
    In adition Su-34 is not an airplane with similar counterpart in the West. The size and role are unique nowadays.
    You can compare F-18 with Su-30SM at most, or better with MiG-35 when available.
    Su-34 is classificated as BOMBER and have the role of a Tactical Bomber of the frontal aviation
    The doctrine, roles , tactics etc.. in the soviet/russian military are different that in the west, and it seems the most of westerners does not understand this
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:38 am

    You also have to make allowances in your calculations that in 2011 there were probably a lot of components made in the west and imported and likely their price increased the dollar cost of aircraft back then... just like the Thales components in the Su-30MKI were something like 10% of the parts but something like 30% of the cost of the aircraft because they were expensive.

    These days even electronic components will be Russian made so while they might not be cheaper they will be bought in rubles and not dollars too.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:46 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane

    Wow , nice finding.

    Then the fighter jet exchange rate ( f/A-18 vs Su-34) will be 22 rubel/$.

    If the current su34 price is 2000 million rubell.

    In 2012 when the contract was signed doller/ruble ws 1:28 to 1:32 (we can take 1:30)
    In 2017 dollar/ruble is about 1:55 to 1:60 , this is the half

    In 2012 the price of one Su-34 was  140.000/92= 1522 M Rb or 51 Million $
    That the Exchange rate is the half does not means the airplane cost is the half.
    This is a mistaken way of think (typical of Weesterners that think they are the center of the world)
    Russia pays in Rubles the military hardware produced by themselves inside Rusia.
    Also in the west the airplanes are produced for private corporations, as more expensive the better, to win, the more money the better at the cost of robbing the taxpayer
    While in Russia is controlled by the state for spent as less money posible. Russia pays the cost of manofacture in most cases , not a Price of market.

    With a inflaction rate of only 10% in 5 or 6 years the cost today can be more of 2400 MRb (currently 45 M$), but I dont know if has been published the exact ammount of money that pays each year the MoD for the Su-34 .

    Is necesary to know how many money is going to pay Algeria for the Su-34 for have a reasonable comparison
    In adition Su-34 is not an airplane with similar counterpart in the West. The size and role are unique nowadays.
    You can compare F-18 with Su-30SM at most, or better with MiG-35 when available.
    Su-34 is classificated as BOMBER and have the role of a Tactical Bomber of the frontal aviation
    The doctrine, roles , tactics etc.. in the soviet/russian military are different that in the west, and it seems the most of westerners does not understand this


    The current exchange rate is not a good indicator of the difference between two countries economical/industrial capability.

    But using up the rubel/usd price it is visible how many airplane can be bought by the country budget.
    IT showing that what is the relative efficiency of Russia/US industry.

    So, we can say the industrial capability exchange rate is somewhere between 12-20 rubel/$
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:47 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:The Su-34 unit cost is 1.5B Rubles (92 aircrafts / 140B Rubles). The Su-30SM unit cost is 1.2B Rubles (50 aircrafts / 60B Runles)

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344648.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2290633.html

    `
    hmm that's interesting.  This Russian heavy fighter Su-30SM costs ~ $21mln   Eurofighter / Rafale  ~ $100 mln  F-15v~ $100mln heh looks like 4x cheaper. It would looks like from procurement point of view ~$ 200 blns?!

    The Price of 140 Bn Rubles for 92 Su34 was in 2012 when the contract was signed
    .
    Russia has high inflaction rates and the prices are updated every year, no currently the cost in rubles is higher than that, in dollars is a diferent thing because the ruble/dollar  exchange now is the near the half tan before the Ukranian conflicto

    In adition you cannot compare the prices in dollars because Russia does not pay the airplanes in dollars and they make the airplanes by itself.
    If you want to purchase a Su-30SM you will pay the equivalent to 40 or 50 millions dollars for each airplane

    Wow , nice finding.

    Then the fighter jet exchange rate ( f/A-18 vs Su-34) will be 22 rubel/$.

    If the current su34 price is 2000 million rubell.

    In 2012 when the contract was signed doller/ruble ws 1:28 to 1:32 (we can take 1:30)
    In 2017 dollar/ruble is about 1:55 to 1:60 , this is the half

    In 2012 the price of one Su-34 was  140.000/92= 1522 M Rb or 51 Million $
    That the Exchange rate is the half does not means the airplane cost is the half.
    This is a mistaken way of think (typical of Weesterners that think they are the center of the world)
    Russia pays in Rubles the military hardware produced by themselves inside Rusia.
    Also in the west the airplanes are produced for private corporations, as more expensive the better, to win, the more money the better at the cost of robbing the taxpayer
    While in Russia is controlled by the state for spent as less money posible. Russia pays the cost of manofacture in most cases , not a Price of market.

    With a inflaction rate of only 10% in 5 or 6 years the cost today can be more of 2400 MRb (currently 45 M$), but I dont know if has been published the exact ammount of money that pays each year the MoD for the Su-34 .

    Is necesary to know how many money is going to pay Algeria for the Su-34 for have a reasonable comparison
    In adition Su-34 is not an airplane with similar counterpart in the West. The size and role are unique nowadays.
    You can compare F-18 with Su-30SM at most, or better with MiG-35 when available.
    Su-34 is classificated as BOMBER and have the role of a Tactical Bomber of the frontal aviation
    The doctrine, roles , tactics etc.. in the soviet/russian military are different that in the west, and it seems the most of westerners does not understand this


    The current exchange rate is not a good indicator of the difference between two countries economical/industrial capability.

    But using up the rubel/usd price it is visible how many airplane can be bought by the country budget.
    IT showing that what is the relative efficiency of Russia/US industry.

    So, we can say the industrial capability exchange rate is somewhere between 12-20 rubel/$

    The exchage rate depends of the offer and demmand laws , as all in a capitalist economy, does not have direct relation with the indusrial capacity

    Since the sanctions against Russia is not easy economical exchange with Russia , so the Ruble has not the same value in the West that before sanctions.
    If someone want to pay you with Rubles, you will ask for more rubles than before, because you cannot find easy things to purchase with the Rubles you have got.

    Also USA manofacture one main thing: dollars,
    And the most of countries had to use dollar for the international trade, this means,you had to purchase dollars for can get gods from other countries.
    This is the reason why USA currency is the currency of reference since 1944 (Breton Woods) and is for that USA can purchase the most of the Oil, Steel , Copper, Uranium , etc... produced by a lot of countries, only printing dollars over a simple paper.
    it's that stupid but that's how the world economy works , imposed by the USA at the end of the Second World War

    Usa does not have a big industrial power if you compare with USA in 1970.
    Nowadays USA only manofacture weapons and dollars

    However Russia has reached this year the same production of wheat that Russia as part of Soviet Unión (30 years after Gorbachov ruined tha USSR) and the production of all types are growing every year.




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