The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Sounds like the ravings of a madman...Putin an ashiest lmao?!?!?!  That clown needs to locked up in a mental institution!

Note he is in India and Russia has just finished naval exercises with Pakistan and Iran. Any connection

Today's Times in UK



Russia in RSA Flag of Russia
@EmbassyofRussia
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8h
FM #Lavrov: It cannot be ruled out that all that hysteria which our Western colleagues whip up is aimed, as a minimum, at covering Kiev regime’s line to completely sabotage #MinskAgreements, if not at provoking Ukraine’s military activities in Donbass. I see no other explanation

It's just a load of bosch

The Germans know full well they're not going to be able to swing around Russia to turning on China for them

They just want to escape full American dominance themselves, so would prefer a settlement over the Ukraine.

The guy also said that Crimea is Russian so he´s in big trouble now.

JohninMK wrote:Today's Times in UK



Russia in RSA Flag of Russia
@EmbassyofRussia
·
8h
FM #Lavrov: It cannot be ruled out that all that hysteria which our Western colleagues whip up is aimed, as a minimum, at covering Kiev regime’s line to completely sabotage #MinskAgreements, if not at provoking Ukraine’s military activities in Donbass. I see no other explanation

The editorial boards in the UK must be dominated by people who snort lines of ground-up glass on their lunch break.

Hole wrote:The guy also said that Crimea is Russian so he´s in big trouble now.

He just resigned.

https://www.survivalnomics.org/ex-us-soldiers-with-alleged-neo-nazi-links-arrive-at-ukrainian-front-line/

White power!!!!

Resigned? More like sacked the civilized way.... aka resign or else.

There is a clear split between old Europe and the US over Ukraine and Russia. So the movement of the 312 Buk system makes
perfect sense. There will be another MH17 false flag to "unify" NATzO against Russia. Gotta herd those doggies.

Europe is taking its distance with anglo-saxons who are pushing for Ukraine into Nato. The entry of Ukraine into EU isn't even talked about anymore but ironically was what started all the crisis and it was mostly pushed by anglo saxons which are not part of EU.

I'm not counting US satelitte states like Poland and baltics as part of EU.

EU is in deepshit. Accepting a corrupted country of 30 million people will be catastrophic. It's clearly not gonna happen. They would also have issue with russian fossil energies.  

Neither would US accept them into Nato in reality because they know Russia would attack and US wouldn't protect them making all the Nato organization useless.

Right now US abd the UK dogs are just pushing for a war with no reason but to try to inflict damages to Russia. Which is stupid because Russia will seize the country and expend. That will also create a massive migrant flee towards EU which will increase the migrant crisis.

ATLASCUB wrote:Resigned? More like sacked the civilized way.... aka resign or else.

Well, yeah

You're 100% correct Isos. The EU is not taking Ukraine which is what this is all about.

EU will never take Ukraine. That's why Russia doesn't give a shit.

DPR and LPR can sort out the UAF on their own

The Russian military is only in Belarus to face NATO in Poland.

NATO in Poland and Baltics are facing now S400 battalions in minsk, Grodno, as well as 1st GTA and 11th army corps in Kaliningrad.

This is bad news for NATO. They never had Russia less then 500km from Warsaw before

Isos wrote:Europe is taking its distance with anglo-saxons who are pushing for Ukraine into Nato. The entry of Ukraine into EU isn't even talked about anymore but ironically was what started all the crisis and it was mostly pushed by anglo saxons which are not part of EU.

I'm not counting US satelitte states like Poland and baltics as part of EU.

EU is in deepshit. Accepting a corrupted country of 30 million people will be catastrophic. It's clearly not gonna happen. They would also have issue with russian fossil energies.  

Neither would US accept them into Nato in reality because they know Russia would attack and US wouldn't protect them making all the Nato organization useless.

Right now US abd the UK dogs are just pushing for a war with no reason but to try to inflict damages to Russia. Which is stupid because Russia will seize the country and expend. That will also create a massive migrant flee towards EU which will increase the migrant crisis.

Russia's not going to seize the country

You're telling me that Russia should walk right into another Afghanistan scenario, spend lives and tons of resources on trying to get the country back up to scratch. I don't care if Zelensky himself invites Russian forces in, I see no reason for Russia to do Ukrainians' job for them in sweeping out all the Ukronazi trash and bail them out of the hole they've dug for themselves whether actively or through complacency.

If they want to get rid of those ghouls they should launch a rebellion against them and then Russia can provide whatever assistance once it gets going.
Or alternatively if a part of the elite feels that they've had enough then they can wrest control of the military and do things that way too. Once again, get it going and Russia won't abandon you.

DPR and LPR can handle UAF.

NATO is the main problem and they know that the dialogue and forces are going to Polish Border.

I dont see Russians near Kharkov or Odessa.

They are in Grodno and Minsk.

They have left Yelnya and are in east Belarus.

NATO is in tough situation with Belarusian battering ram

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/blinken-us-respond-russia-demands-lavrov-b6e641bc-9ec1-40cf-bb74-ef1b2027335a.html

The written surrender coming, NATO knows full well they dug themselves in deep with this one.

Any written response will be legally binding document at UN.

Russia knows exactly what it is doing here

Really interested to see what they put on paper

If they outright deny Russian security concerns, any actions taken thereafter will be shown to international community as the justification for what comes next

Arkanghelsk wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/blinken-us-respond-russia-demands-lavrov-b6e641bc-9ec1-40cf-bb74-ef1b2027335a.html

The written surrender coming, NATO knows full well they dug themselves in deep with this one.

Any written response will be legally binding document at UN.

Russia knows exactly what it is doing here

Really interested to see what they put on paper

If they outright deny Russian security concerns, any actions taken thereafter will be shown to international community as the justification for what comes next

Surrender delusional dude. Stop coping. They already said they won’t give in to ANY of Russias demands. The only thing that will make them surrender is a hypersonic khinzal with a tactical nuke on its tip hitting all of natos leadership before they can scramble into a bunker.

The written document provides legal justification for any actions that need to be taken.

This is why diplomatic talks happened in the first place.

Talks aren't happening for fun, they need written response this week. The talks cannot drag on without a written response.

The writing will provide legal basis for everything that will occur after.

NATO can write no, or draw a squiggly line.

But it will represent that NATO acknowledges the security situation, and will be responsible for initiating aggression in this area.

NATO signing нет on the dotted line would not give Russia legal permission to bomb NATO and start launching missiles.

Legality has nothing to do with the situation at all.

This is completely a might makes right situation. And NATO has all the might unless Russia is willing to use tactical nukes without fear.

bitcointrader70 wrote:NATO signing  нет on the dotted line would not give Russia legal permission to bomb NATO and start launching missiles.

Legality has nothing to do with the situation at all.

This is completely a might makes right situation. And NATO has all the might unless Russia is willing to use tactical nukes without fear.

NATO signing no, will mean they acknowledge that they pose a threat to the Russian Federation, and are unwilling to rescind their forces from the border, so the military technical response is justified

It just remains to be seen whether it will be done by Lavrov or by Shoigu. 

The ultimatum was delivered with those conditions explicitly, 

A negative response was taken into account before this document ever made it into physical existence

They did not make the demands from improvisation or at the last moment

There is enough material on the border to remove Aegis Ashore from Poland and Romania

The diplomatic niceties were done with one intention, to obtain a document which outlines NATO response to the demands, therefore justifying the response

Everything Mr. Putin does is calculated and approved by the decision makers and security heads

All contingencies are in place to cash in on that check that was written , and it's a big check indeed 

Or do you really think such explicit demands were made without consideration to the alternative ? 

No everything is already in place, they are not coming up with decisions now, it just remains to be seen which algorithm will be used

Ukraine should rather concentrate on improving its economy instead of picking a fight with Russia. A major reason behind Ukraine's economic backwardness is rampant corruption.

The core damage to the Ukrainian economy was done when they decided to cut ties with their main customer, Russia.

This trade partnership was not replaced by trade with the EU because the EU doesn't want what the Ukraine makes... except what already had value that they were already buying.

It would be like KFC or McDonalds refusing to serve fat people or their families... suddenly sales have dropped massively but the cost of keeping all those stores has not gone down... so of course massive staff layoffs and lots of shops closed... but the only solution is to get the core customer back...

Certainly the level of corruption has only increased too, which makes recovery even less likely/possible.

US is being destroyed by inflation and China.

The US is being destroyed because its values and morals are bullshit and it really only serves the super rich 1% instead of the American people... who are struggling like they have never struggled before... except when they first arrived... which should serve as a real warning to anyone offering them a helping hand if you know what I mean.... ... enjoying the maize?

German naval chief in New Delhi fielding questions about the ongoing crisis between Russia and NATO

Western behaviour towards Russia can very much be compared with Christian behaviour... put some clothes on and forget your religion and your gods and worship the one we worship, and do as we say.... adopt our morals and culture...

Some think that is a solution but it is actually the problem.

And the comments about China giving money to dictators and murderers to get their countries resources is rich... the west has been doing that for the last 500 fricken years.

The Ukraine has left Russias sphere of influence... Russia does not want the Ukraine "back", they want them to stop murdering their own citizens for speaking Russian at home.

Russia does not want Kiev back.

Broken damaged goods that is going to cost a lot of money to fix... much more than the 5 billion the US spent to break it.

...sad. old Catholic germans are some of the greatest, most patriotic of german stock. ww2 ace Molders was the same vein. I wonder if the libs in government will try to get rid of him.

Same Germans that murdered millions of Soviets during WWII...

Americans are to dumb to organise a civil war.

They already had one...

The divisions now are probably greater than they were back then... wouldn't surprise me if a second civil war didn't start based on slavery again... woke liberals demanding reparation should create a new law allowing black people or people of colours other than white to own white slaves...

People keep talking about this cataclysm that’s supposed to occur forever ago when the dollar becomes worthless and no one wants it anymore. I’m still waiting. When will it happen in 10 years? 20? 30? 40? 50? A hundred years? By the time it happens Russia might not even exist as a state if NATO gets their way.

It is like an asteroid impact... no one can really say where or when, but as printing goes up and debt continues to go up too... it is pretty basic common sense that neither can continue forever before the people owed this money who are making money on interest payments for the debt might start to think a currency that is just printed might not be as safe as it appears.

As more and more countries stop using the US dollar because the US is threatening them for buying Su-35s or S-400s then the value of the dollar in international trade diminishes... countries these days will be refusing US dollars because they can't use them amongst their allies or domestically... so they will want payment in local currency.

Before the US started wielding its currency as a weapon for every international trade purchase you had to buy US dollars... which creates huge demand for the currency but also tells the US who is buying what, and of course in buying the currency the US makes money on the transaction... like a little tax.

The more the US swings its dick around... the smaller the dick becomes... and pretty soon people will think you are a transgender post op... woman.

With no dick to swing the hands come out to beg, but considering Americas behaviour in recent memory who is going to help?

People have been saying the same things you are saying since the 1970s when all of this started but guess what? America is still top dog and everyone is still scared shitless when the america brings the pain with their economic warfare.

America is very dangerous... nasty... petty... vengeful... but the economic damage they can do to Russia is now so poor they have to demand all of the EU joins them with their sanctions, and past sanctions have actually made Russia independent of the west... so much so they feel confident enough to challenge the west to either change their behaviour to Russia or look forward to zero ties and they will look to other places.

And America currently is the best place on the planet. It has the most opportunity for someone who is young and hardworking.

Says hedge fund managers and bit coin traders and lawyers mostly. For most Americans that used to be middle class it is not so good... houses are unaffordable, and one job doesn't cover the cost of a new iphone every year, let alone the holiday house and boat.

Overall its not bad except for old pensioners, but money should not be put to them anyway

Edit: no offense to pensioners, I just dont believe the budget should finance their retirement. The youth is more important, they can sustain the elders. Not the other way around.

Actually pensioners are a good place to direct money because they don't save money any more, they just spend it... and they don't spend online with some foreign company in China, they spend it locally in local shops which is good for the economy.

Today's Times in UK... People are ready to tear apart Russians with their bare hands...

So they have no ammo left?

Interesting comment for a neighbour, imagine if the Russians were saying that about the Finns or Ukrainians or Georgians?

EU is in deepshit. Accepting a corrupted country of 30 million people will be catastrophic. It's clearly not gonna happen.

If you can delay it 10 years it might only be 15 million....

Russia's not going to seize the country

The west has fucked up and is desperate to start something to get Russia to go in and clean up after them and pay the bill for everything to be rebuilt... for ungrateful tennants who will still complain it took too long and not enough was spent and why are the roads black and not gold....

NATO signing нет on the dotted line would not give Russia legal permission to bomb NATO and start launching missiles.

They don't want permission to do that, but it will lead to a severing of ties and a new iron curtain across which only the bare minimum of anything crosses in either direction...

Legality has nothing to do with the situation at all.

The west has shown legality means nothing, but Russia still respects international law... just not western interpretations of it.

This is completely a might makes right situation. And NATO has all the might unless Russia is willing to use tactical nukes without fear.

I disagree... HATO is a paper tiger.... even on the border with Belarus and Russia... their strength comes from their air power and it is a weak power because it serves both defence and attack and does not do both very well.... and as it gets used and damaged doing either it becomes less effective at both.

In comparison Russian ground forces in Syria have shown themselves to be every bit as capable as western equivalents in terms of air power and special forces...

No everything is already in place, they are not coming up with decisions now, it just remains to be seen which algorithm will be used

The US has pivoted to containment of China.... I suspect the Russian response to no respect from HATO will be a pivot to the rest of the world, for trade and for development and for growth... and it will be mutual and not one sided like relations with the west.

nomadski wrote:


So as far as Russia concerned , situation is clear  ?  NATO moving into Ukraine means a new Iron curtain in Europe and Russia moving East . Nukes in Ukraine means Russian Nuke Submarines near USA coast , with possibly repair or refuelling ( R&R)  in South America . Further ethnic war against Russian speakers means indirect material help for them across border . Direct attack against Crimea means a defensive response by Russia . Russia considers Ukraine a lost cause . Not interested in taking Kiev back . Or spending blood and treasure in fixing the broken country .

Ukrainians, not Banderites, are going to have to fight for their freedom. Russia can't do this for them. If they want to be
U-ropeans then that is their choice and their curse. Russia blew on the order of $300 billion on this toilet during the 1990s
and 2000s during a time when it needed the money itself. Enough bleeding welfare for haters.

Banderastan's relevance is as a NATzO missile base. But in any realistic scenario for realignment of Ukraine with Russia,
there would be a partition with the western part joining the NATzO camp and the south-eastern part and possibly parts
of the center joining Russia. This does not solve the geography problem for NATzO missiles aimed at Russia. So
any solution would be the same even if Ukria joined NATzO today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/germany-blocks-nato-ally-from-transferring-weapons-to-ukraine-11642790772

Germany is blocking arms to Ukraine,

But I thought NATO was united?

Boy that Jinping Putin meeting has the Germans uneasy, they could lose their gas to Power of Siberia 2