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    Typhoon class SSBNs future:

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    Firebird

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Firebird on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:28 pm

    Surely they cant even think of scrapping the 3 remaining Typhoons. They're awesome, incredible beasts.

    How many year would it take just to build the basics of a Typhoon? Keep them. THEN decide what to do. With energy weapons etc emerging, a big hull will be even more useful. And ofcrouse it has space for sound dampening. I like the idea of a mothership, maybe for a fleet of mini unmanned vehciles. Maybe for ABM missiles. Maybe cruise missiles. Maybe a form of stealth delivery of cargoes.Theres a HUGE amount of uses. Who knows park them up for 10 years. But militaries change, technology and doctrines change. And diplomatic situations change. Some here say the Cold War is over. Not if you talk to that deranged imbecile Romney. Russia shouldnt destroy her greatest technologies. EVER.

    PS the other thing is that Kirovs, Typhoons etc are more than just ships. They are mobile bases.America has bases near Russia. So Russia needs the same. The base near NY, the base near LA, near Syria. Thats 1 reason why they were build to begin with.
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    TR1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:35 pm

    ssk1777 wrote:Does the russian navy still use the typhoon class subs in action or what do they do with them?

    Dmitry Donskoy has been in service as a Bulava testbed.

    Severstal and Arkhangelk are in conservation @ Severodvinsk (near SevMash), side by side.

    Rest have been scrapped.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:07 am

    As TR-1 said, they are keeping one for testing, and they have two more they are thinking about what to do with, whether they convert them to cruise missile carriers, or use them for research, or other purposes.

    BTW they are actually Akula class subs... it is unfortunate that NATO calls SSNs of the Shuka class Akula.


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    Firebird

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Firebird on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:36 am

    I wonder how much it would cost to build 3 Typhoons today?
    Its interesting that miltary agreements mean the trashing of machines that could be used for conventional and not just nuclear conflict. I'm thinking thge Tu-160s the Ukraine was paid to destroy. Or the 3 Typhoons that have gone already. Arguably the half built Ulyanovsk that the Ukraine was encouraged by the US to scrap.

    Why is it that agreements never call for 5 or 6 Nimitz to be chopped in half?
    Rant over..! How successful could a Typhoon be as a forward ABM base? I also remember Russian designs for a small submarine that could fly out of the water. Perhaps a Typhoon could be a mothership for that?

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Firebird on Tue May 07, 2013 12:12 pm

    The 3 of the 6 Typhoon subs(I'll use that name, as its less confusing for some people.. ; ) ), I know they are basically listed as "scrapped".

    But are they scrapped as in cut into lots of tiny pieces. As China's new carrier supposedly was (and then it wasn't). Or are they just cut open with the reactors taken out.

    In other words, could any of the 3 scrapped Typhoons be brought back into service with a lot of work done.

    The potential uses for such a huge sub are mindboggling, IMO.

    I think in many ways, they're my favourite of all Russian weaponry. Alongside the Pak fa, Tu-160 and Kirov cruisers.. To think that these things weigh nearly 50k tonnes when submerged... Most non military people don't even believe that.. Very Happy
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    TR1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  TR1 on Tue May 07, 2013 7:55 pm

    No they are gone.

    However there are two aside from Donskoy (Arkhangelsk and Severstal) that are tied up awaiting their fate, and could certainly be brought back
    A matter of price however.

    Firebird

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Firebird on Fri May 10, 2013 5:56 pm

    TR1 wrote:No they are gone.

    However there are two aside from Donskoy (Arkhangelsk and Severstal) that are tied up awaiting their fate, and could certainly be brought back
    A matter of price however.

    Oh well, I thought so... Sad

    Quite a shame IMO.
    3 magnificent hulls.The envy of the World in many ways, not old, and very expensive to produce. Feared by the US.

    My argument is to keep a series if possible. 6 subs not 3 means economies of scale in upkeep etc..

    Ofcourse the big question is, what to use these mammouth hulls for. My view is an underwater mothership for undersea drones or even for flying drones.. Maybe an undersea cargo carrier. Lets hope Russia utilises its expertise in building huge hulls when then next gen of subs are built..
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    GarryB

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    Τyphoon class

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 11, 2013 11:38 am

    The idea of an undersea cargo vessel would only be useful if the arctic stays frozen... or perhaps for "secret cargo deliveries".

    I suspect mothership for UUVs, a potential special forces delivery vessel, and perhaps even a rescue vessel or marine research vessel with mini and micro subs and also aircraft would be very useful.

    Equally an arsenal ship with row upon row of UKSK tubes for hundreds of cruise missiles is a possibility too.

    Replacement of machinery and sensors and weapons of the new standardisation regime should enable fairly reasonable cost savings in operation.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 21, 2013 12:43 pm

    @TR1 totally agree.



    Dmitry Donskoy is the only survivor of the Typhoon class (Severstal and Arkhangelsk going the the scrapyard)

    Russia "let the knife," the biggest nuclear submarines by 2018
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    GarryB

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 22, 2013 4:12 am

    I guess it is for the best regarding the Akula class... though I do hope that when they are ready to retire the Dmitry Donskoy that it has its nuclear bits removed and is converted into a museum up somewhere on land where its enormous size can be truly appreciated.

    Research vessels and arsenal subs sound OK, but custom designed vessels probably make rather more sense... and arsenal subs simply don't sound like something the Russian military actually need... an arsenal sub is a murderer... something that is unseen and stabs you in the back... with a sharpened stick of dynamite with its 0.5 second fuse burning. An arsenal ship however... based on the Kirov/Orlan class is something that can be publicly moved into position to exert real direct pressure... hopefully so that like nuclear weapons wont need to be actually used to be useful.

    The information on the carriers also makes a lot of sense... and nuclear power and forward looking design clearly means EM catapults too. There was really no point in the Russians going through the process of deploying and perfecting steam catapults when EM offers a better solution and technologies that are more useful in other areas of electronics and weapons.

    The Russian Navy developing Steam cats now would be like Kalashnikov working on a Flintlock for front line use.


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 22, 2013 11:56 am

    I don't know Neutral ...it's a shame to scrap such unique vessels. It would've been nice to go ahead with the proposal to turn 2 of them into cruise missile and special forces boats. But I guess that's a luxury from a financial perspective.

    Firebird

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Firebird on Wed May 22, 2013 3:22 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:I don't know Neutral ...it's a shame to scrap such unique vessels. It would've been nice to go ahead with the proposal to turn 2 of them into cruise missile and special forces boats. But I guess that's a luxury from a financial perspective.


    Even from a button counting(financial) pt of view I don't see the case for scrapping the 3 greatest submarines in history..

    The scrap value is measley. The upkeep value of 3 hulls is small. The pr and image benefits are huge.

    Also the argument to build new mega hulls is huge. Even the 1st Borei is based on older hull designs.

    The USA's CIA are captivated by the ingenuity of the Typhoon design and its myriad of possible uses in this pdf. Extremely jealous I detect.

    The Soviet Typhoon Submarine-. A Radical Innovation in Submarine Design

    My view is keep the 3 hulls. Its better to have a "non diversified fleet" and it keeps refit costs down.

    Also these hulls are massively useful. One as a testbed for missiles. One as a test bed for cargo or "stealth landings". Another as a mothership for mini-subs and underwater drones, or even for flying drones/planes.

    Rather than becoming obsolete, I believe the submarine megahull is becoming more and more attractive...

    In 15 years time, I'd park one in St Petersburg, one in Vladivostock and maybe one elsewhere. By that time, the next gen of megasubs would be fully in operation.

    All this genius scrapped for a few millions in scrap metal... I cannot understand it.
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    TR1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  TR1 on Wed May 22, 2013 9:26 pm

    The Arkhangelsk and Severstal have both been in reserve for many years. Both would need reactor refueling as well as general repairs + maintenance. And of course, both would need major modification if they were to receive a new cruise missile armamanent. Regular drydock visits and maintance are a pain on these monsters.
    What is all this looking like? A huge expense that would be better spent elsewhere. The RuNavy is not in critical need of more ballistic missile subs, considering the BDRM fleet modernization and the 955s in the pipeline. Cruise missile forests would be nice, but are a luxury. Kalibr is becoming widespread on new ships with UKSK, and new and modernized submarines.

    Dmitry Dinskoy has been well maintained in its role as a test ship, so its not going anywhere anytime soon.
    But Russia isn't going to be building any subs that big, not anytime soon. Mind you Borei and Graney are big boys themselves, on an international level.
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    GarryB

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    Dmitry Donskoy is the only survivor of the Typhoon class (Severstal and Arkhangelsk going the the scrapyard)

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 23, 2013 1:09 am

    Their new corvettes are showing that new vessels will pack much more punch than older vessels... I wouldn't rule out large subs in the future, but I suspect building them from scratch would result in a more useful vessel.


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    George1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:33 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:02 am

    Shame they couldn't be turned into museums with all the secret bits removed... and of course all the nuke bits removed.

    It reportedly had 3-4 libraries and open places for sitting a reading including aviarys with real birds flying around, and at least 3 swimming pools for the crew to relax when they were not on duty.

    No hot racking either... you got your own bed that you didn't have to share with two other people like you do on some US subs.


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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:22 am

    GarryB wrote:Shame they couldn't be turned into museums with all the secret bits removed... and of course all the nuke bits removed.

    It reportedly had 3-4 libraries and open places for sitting a reading including aviarys with real birds flying around, and at least 3 swimming pools for the crew to relax when they were not on duty.

    No hot racking either... you got your own bed that you didn't have to share with two other people like you do on some US subs.

    Agreed. At least one should be preserved and retained, as the class deserves to live on as the largest submarine ever built. Practically speaking, it should be the Dmitry Donskoi as (I assume) it would be the best preserved of its class?
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:07 pm

    damn, what a waste. Sad
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    George1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  George1 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:00 am

    World's Largest Sub Leaves Port for Arctic War Games

    The Russian nuclear-powered strategic submarine Dmitry Donskoy, touted as the largest submersible vehicle in the world, has reportedly entered the White Sea, where it is due to take part in anti-submarine drills.

    A source in the Russian Northern Fleet said on Friday that the Russian Akula class nuclear ballistic missile submarine Dmitry Donskoy has left its base in the city of Severodvinsk, entering the White Sea, where it will take part in anti-submarine war games, according to the website flot.com.

    Taking part in the drills are, among other vehicles, the anti-submarine ships Onega and Naryan-Mar.

    Dmitry Donskoy's previous mission in the White Sea lasted three weeks and wrapped up on July 16, 2015.

    The vessel, named after the Grand Duke of Moscow Dmitry Donskoy, measures 172 meters in length and has a crew of 160, making it the world's largest submarine.

    In 2002, the twenty launchers for the R-39 ballistic missiles the submarine originally carried were replaced with launchers for the most advanced submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) to date, the RSM-56 Bulava. The past few years have seen a spate of successful Bulava launches from the Dmitry Donskoy.

    Although she was built in 1980 as a third generation submarine, the Dmitry Donskoy is now referred to as a fourth generation submarine due to her extensive modifications.

    Apart from its twenty Bulava SLBMs, the submarine is equipped with six 533mm torpedo tubes and eight Igla (Needle) anti-aircraft missile systems. The vehicle is capable of staying at sea without surfacing for about 180 days.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150904/1026590302/russia-world-submarine-drills-white-sea.html#ixzz3kpTk0fSH


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    George1

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  George1 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:01 am

    So it is a training submarine now??


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    Militarov

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Militarov on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:59 am

    "The world’s largest submarine, the Dmitri Donskoy (TK-208), Nato-coded Typhoon, has set sail for the Mediterranean and is destined for the Syrian coast, DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources. Aboard the sub are 20 Bulava (NATO-code SS-N-30) intercontinental ballistic missiles with an estimated up to 200 nuclear warheads. Each missile, with a reported range of 10,000km, carries 6-10 MIRV nuclear warheads. The Russian sub set sail from its northern base on Sept. 4, escorted by two anti-sub warfare ships. Their arrival at destination in 10 days time will top up the new Russian military deployment in Syria. President Vladimir Putin’s introduction of a nuclear force opposite Syrian shores builds up what first looked like an operation to fortify Assad’s regime in Damascus into a military expedition capable of an air and sea confrontation with US forces in the Middle East."

    Source for silly news: http://www.debka.com/article/24873/Russian-submarine-with-20-ICBMs-and-200-nuclear-warheads-is-sailing-to-Syria

    Debkafile is worse each day i swear, they even claim its armed with 20 Bulavas, meanwhile only 1 launcher has been converted to accomodate Bulava for testing. Who are these people that write this crap. Even if TK208 is going towards Syrian waters from what i am aware its now used as training submarine, so it will participate in that naval exercise near coast of Syria that is already being annoynced.

    Funniest part: "DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources.", right.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:12 pm

    Militarov wrote:"The world’s largest submarine, the Dmitri Donskoy (TK-208), Nato-coded Typhoon, has set sail for the Mediterranean and is destined for the Syrian coast, DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources. Aboard the sub are 20 Bulava (NATO-code SS-N-30) intercontinental ballistic missiles with an estimated up to 200 nuclear warheads. Each missile, with a reported range of 10,000km, carries 6-10 MIRV nuclear warheads. The Russian sub set sail from its northern base on Sept. 4, escorted by two anti-sub warfare ships. Their arrival at destination in 10 days time will top up the new Russian military deployment in Syria. President Vladimir Putin’s introduction of a nuclear force opposite Syrian shores builds up what first looked like an operation to fortify Assad’s regime in Damascus into a military expedition capable of an air and sea confrontation with US forces in the Middle East."

    Source for silly news: http://www.debka.com/article/24873/Russian-submarine-with-20-ICBMs-and-200-nuclear-warheads-is-sailing-to-Syria

    Debkafile is worse each day i swear, they even claim its armed with 20 Bulavas, meanwhile only 1 launcher has been converted to accomodate Bulava for testing. Who are these people that write this crap. Even if TK208 is going towards Syrian waters from what i am aware its now used as training submarine, so it will participate in that naval exercise near coast of Syria that is already being annoynced.

    Funniest part: "DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources.", right.

    To make this article even more pathetic, they have posted a picture of a Schuka-B SSN and labeled it as the TK-208.... Twisted Evil
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    Militarov

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Militarov on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:58 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Militarov wrote:"The world’s largest submarine, the Dmitri Donskoy (TK-208), Nato-coded Typhoon, has set sail for the Mediterranean and is destined for the Syrian coast, DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources. Aboard the sub are 20 Bulava (NATO-code SS-N-30) intercontinental ballistic missiles with an estimated up to 200 nuclear warheads. Each missile, with a reported range of 10,000km, carries 6-10 MIRV nuclear warheads. The Russian sub set sail from its northern base on Sept. 4, escorted by two anti-sub warfare ships. Their arrival at destination in 10 days time will top up the new Russian military deployment in Syria. President Vladimir Putin’s introduction of a nuclear force opposite Syrian shores builds up what first looked like an operation to fortify Assad’s regime in Damascus into a military expedition capable of an air and sea confrontation with US forces in the Middle East."

    Source for silly news: http://www.debka.com/article/24873/Russian-submarine-with-20-ICBMs-and-200-nuclear-warheads-is-sailing-to-Syria

    Debkafile is worse each day i swear, they even claim its armed with 20 Bulavas, meanwhile only 1 launcher has been converted to accomodate Bulava for testing. Who are these people that write this crap. Even if TK208 is going towards Syrian waters from what i am aware its now used as training submarine, so it will participate in that naval exercise near coast of Syria that is already being annoynced.

    Funniest part: "DEBKAfile reports exclusively from its military and intelligence sources.", right.

    To make this article even more pathetic, they have posted a picture of a Schuka-B SSN and labeled it as the TK-208....  Twisted Evil
    ž

    I didnt even notice that one lol, image so small Very Happy
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:18 am

    TK-17 Arkhangelsk is to be disarmed by having her missile tube covers removed and her missile tubes filled.

    https://www.rt.com/news/335300-russia-disarms-nuclear-sub/
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    GarryB

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    Re: Typhoon class SSBNs future:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:09 am

    After seeing the performance of Kalibr and Klub in Syria I would think removing the SS-N-20 tubes and replacing them with two layers of 30 UKSK launchers would be a good idea... one platform that you could send to deliver a serious blow to any enemy state from an unexpected direction... 60 x 8 would be 420 ready to launch weapons that could include land attack cruise missiles, and supersonic anti ship missiles and of course anti sub torpedo ballistic delivery rockets... not to mention the near future hypersonic cruise missiles.


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