Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+77
jhelb
Odin of Ossetia
thegopnik
SeigSoloyvov
Aristide
GarryB
nero
PhSt
Hole
Kimppis
kvs
Isos
havok
Tingsay
Teshub
starman
Nibiru
nomadski
Sprut-B
ATLASCUB
miketheterrible
Project Canada
TheArmenian
Sinan
GunshipDemocracy
Austin
calm
George1
medo
Svyatoslavich
arpakola
Khepesh
par far
KoTeMoRe
JohninMK
KiloGolf
sepheronx
andalusia
Bidoul
berhoum
AlfaT8
Werewolf
magnumcromagnon
higurashihougi
artjomh
Dforce
ExBeobachter1987
Fred333
eehnie
Prince Darling
PapaDragon
Cowboy's daughter
Maximmmm
whir
Walther von Oldenburg
wilhelm
Godric
Rodinazombie
Karl Haushofer
franco
NationalRus
OnionCossack
alexZam
vlad4eva
max steel
OminousSpudd
Cyberspec
Mike E
AbsoluteZero
Vann7
Kyo
Hannibal Barca
collegeboy16
Regular
Zivo
KomissarBojanchev
nemrod
81 posters

    Western propaganda

    calm
    calm


    Posts : 1484
    Points : 1486
    Join date : 2015-12-19
    Location : Serbia

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  calm Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:12 am

    Western propaganda - Page 19 CvUWiB6WYAEomWw




    Western propaganda - Page 19 CvUWiB6XgAAKbsM

    Russophobia and the dark art of making an anti-Russian magazine cover

    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*BT03NLneoLNtmF2lblkNfg

    Chances are, if a story about Russia appears on the cover of a major Western magazine, it’s not good news. Most likely, there’s been an international scandal, a breakout of geopolitical tensions, the resumption of Cold War hostilities, or some nefarious Russian plot to bring the entire free world to its knees.
    Russophobia — or the unnatural fear of Russia — generally leads magazine editors to choose the most over-the-top images to convey Russia as a backwards, clumsy, non-Western and aggressively malevolent power. Unfortunately, that’s led to a few rules of thumb for anyone trying to create a magazine cover featuring Russia. You can think of these rules as the dark art of making an anti-Russian magazine cover:
    OPTION 1: Go with the Russian bear
    This is a no-brainer, actually, and pretty much the default option for any magazine editor. The symbol of the Russian bear is universally understood to be the symbol of Russia, so it’s an immediate attention-grabber that readers will grasp quickly. After all, for centuries, Western satirists have used the Russian bear as a symbol of imperial aggression.
    Given the latest round of U.S.-Russian tensions over the Ukraine crisis, the key is to make the Russian bear look as scary as possible. Take the May/June 2016 cover from Foreign Affairs, for example:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*EQnBqDmpXa32Ig-GyVhOVA

    The cover title seems relatively harmless — “Putin’s Russia: Down But Not Out.” But check out the image of the bear — it’s bloodied and still relatively menacing, despite being bruised and battered — check out the red, bloodshot eyes and the sharp claws. Definitely not someone you’d want to mess with, even after a few shots of vodka.
    And Foreign Affairs is not the only magazine to go the full bear with the cover. Ahead of the Sochi Winter Olympics in 2014, Bloomberg BusinessWeek went with what has to be the scariest, most menacing Russia bear that’s ever appeared on the cover of a magazine. The magazine shows a malevolent bear on a pair of skis wearing a Russian hockey jersey, armed to the teeth (literally), with the headline: “Is Russia Ready?”
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*f150jd-ZTHXb-MbJwBSJ6g
    This Olympic cover immediately calls to mind a cover story TIME ran on Russia (then the Soviet Union) ahead of the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Olympics — “Olympic Turmoil: Why the Soviets Said Nyet.” Here you have a menacing (and slightly psychotic-looking) Russian bear chewing on the Olympic rings:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*9Nhj_-1oUmBtcVyTHnRWhg
    There are other options, of course, if you don’t want to go with the anthropomorphic bear. In late 2014, The Economist pulled off a story about “Russia’s Wounded Economy” after Western sanctions and falling oil prices — it showed a bear stalking through the wintry, Siberian snow with bloody footprints:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*AFPggYJEQVD7sFg817tzJg
    But you probably want to emphasize either the claws or teeth of the Russian bear, right? So here’s a terrifying image of a Russian bear “welcoming” U.S. President Barack Obama to Moscow:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*zcyfu3PSmCqfJaWe9QwtsQ

    OPTION 2: Go with Vladimir Putin
    The next best choice after using the Russian bear is the image of Vladimir Putin. After all, in the minds of most Western readers, Putin is Russia and Russia is Putin.
    If you’re ready to head down this road, then an image of an evil James Bond villain, hatching a diabolical plot to take over the world, might work. This 2014 Newsweek cover of Putin, showing him and the menacing sunglasses, is a classic:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*QLPCKjhLK5zeViyM_Yk1eA
    To play up the Soviet spy background of Putin, you could try using an image of him wearing sunglasses in a grim-looking Red Square (Gray Square!):
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*H3XUyG2b2Moj-7ZM8EEm0w
    A variant of the James Bond villain look is the classic “moody Putin” look that’s been around for almost a decade. This image somehow captures the Western perception of Russia as a vast, unsmiling wasteland full of snow, ice and a vast moral void. Who better to run that country than an unsmiling dictator? What started it all was this TIME magazine cover naming Putin as “Person of the Year”:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*XVForFEic67R1602Q4qHpQ
    From there, the moody, unsmiling Putin image took off. Pull your camera angle back from the close-up of Putin’s face and you get this — “the unsmiling tsar”:Western propaganda - Page 19 1*SDoDKT0f3Hl30HWVx_9OGg
    Which, of course, led to the cover of this 2015 book by Steven Lee Myers of the New York Times:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*z6DZyrbm9Gv2p3oHPo0tGw
    Of course, the moody, unsmiling, sour-looking Putin can be updated to make him look like a gangster:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*CVM50J1fSmM2DyN_7oBOmQ
    Or a Mario Puzo-style mafia don:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*9GNarH1zDh7mSX03oM2Jdw
    If you really want to grab the reader’s attention, though, go for the shirtless Putin. The shirtless Vladimir Putin is a classic Internet meme, of course. (Google: Shirtless Putin hummingbird hamster) The meme of a shirtless Putin doing manly things is so popular that “The Simpsons” even used the image of a completely naked Putin on horseback (bareback?) around the time of the Crimea crisis:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*bRxIv8dfGcFXWbwQvyMGNg
    Look long enough, and you start to see images of shirtless Vladimir Putins Photoshopped on top of everything. So it’s perhaps no big surprise that the shirtless Vladimir Putin has ended up on the cover of a few major magazines, including this classic Economist cover where he’s shirtless on top of a Russian tank:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*OCYxmF3s_Y6H4vpcvJqz0A
    And shirtless while playing poker:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*-4C2QkhZWUTU_D_9FM1oQQ
    But, if you want an image of Putin, and you also want to keep things classy, how about a mashup of Putin and a classic symbol of Russian culture, like ballet or ice skating? In 2014, The New Yorker pulled off a cover of Putin, pirouetting through the air during the Sochi Winter Olympics, while a bunch of Putin yes-man clones give him top marks for his performance:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*kvz_2_r35jT8HyM_gH6qqQ
    And, here’s another cover featuring Putin as an ice skater, this time from The Economist:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*ai3vbgRAfdDcfljeIv07aA
    But here’s the twist — note the fallen Russian figure skater on the ice and the suggestion that the Sochi Olympics were basically a giant personal ego project for Putin. (Also note the subtext of the imagery — whereas Putin usually opts for “macho” sports like hunting, swimming and hockey, this cover shows him as a slightly effeminate ice skater. Look at the hands!!!)
    OPTION 3: Go with a classic image of Russia, slightly twisted
    If you’re tired of using the Russian bear image and you’re concerned that putting Vladimir Putin on the cover of your magazine might create a few unsavory possibilities for your editorial team (Russian spies! Russian mafia! Russian hooligans!), there’s the old standby — the matryoshka image. This, of course, conveys the enigmatic nature of Russia — the old “riddle inside an enigma wrapped in a mystery” of Winston Churchill:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*5gm-cOA4CERa3HB1E_2FEg
    But why stop there? To convey the threatening nature of all things Russia, maybe it’s just easier just to come out and show the Russian missiles, tanks, weapons and troops directly:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*Xq0lHVK40WMQ6ycF6PwPeg
    What all these magazine covers have in common, of course, is their Russophobia. These magazine covers are not so much different from the images that appeared a hundred years ago, when Russia really was an enigma unknown to the West. In fact, the image of Russia as a big, clumsy and aggressive state dates all the way back to the 16th century, and not much seems to have changed since then.
    There’s always been a sense in Western media circles that a giant power in the middle of the Eurasian landmass posed a threat to someone — and maybe to everyone:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*wRYvIQWnHA00s-qPbV0e7w
    Although, in all fairness, the image of the Russian bear is probably preferable to the image of the Russian octopus:
    Western propaganda - Page 19 1*pB5Ao7jYEYfyEonnaosLvQ
    Which leads to the obvious question — Are these images of Russia from 100 years ago really so much different from the images appearing today in Western mass media?
    At a time when the Kremlin has called on the Culture Ministry to investigate anti-Russian propaganda and Russophobia in the West, this question isn’t very hard to answer.

    Khepesh
    Khepesh


    Posts : 1666
    Points : 1735
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Khepesh Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:11 am

    Different type of propaganda.
    "History" according to TSN. It says that at 0400 on the morning of July 22 Kiev was bombed by Soviet aircraft, and the use of modern and not 1941 borders and the use of "СРСР" is a further bizarre twisting of reality by attempting to say Soviet Union was "Union of Russian Socialist Republics". Control of history and what is taught in schools is the biggest propaganda weapon there is, as when the "sheeple" have been taught the big lies and think they are reality, the crude poster type propaganda is hardly needed.
    Western propaganda - Page 19 Be93fd2f0987


    Last edited by Khepesh on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Socialist)
    OminousSpudd
    OminousSpudd


    Posts : 942
    Points : 947
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  OminousSpudd Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:39 pm

    Unreal... No
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:34 pm

    In other news the White House has accused Russia of....*DRUMROLL*....fabricating the Northern Lights! No seriously! Meth, Crack, PCP, Shrooms....not even once!

    So, For How Long has Washington been on Dope?
    avatar
    Svyatoslavich


    Posts : 399
    Points : 400
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Svyatoslavich Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:46 pm

    Brazilian lawyer Janaina Paschoal (author of the impeachment law against former president Dilma Rousseff) said that Russia is about to invade Brazil through Venezuela. Most Brazilians are, of course, laughing, and created many memes. But one of the biggest Brazilian newspapers (Folha de São Paulo) seems to be taking it seriously, even linking somehow the new RS-28 Sarmat missile with the invasion (the ridiculous title reads: "Russia could invade Brazil with Satan 2 missile".
    http://afolhabrasil.com.br/politica/russia-pode-invadir-o-brasil-com-o-missil-sata-2/
    Couldn't find anything in English, though.
    Even if Putin had any will to invade Brazil (and I am sure he hasn't), I think I don't need to list the reasons why it is just impossible.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15166
    Points : 15303
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  kvs Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:50 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:Brazilian lawyer Janaina Paschoal (author of the impeachment law against former president Dilma Rousseff) said that Russia is about to invade Brazil through Venezuela. Most Brazilians are, of course, laughing, and created many memes. But one of the biggest Brazilian newspapers (Folha de São Paulo) seems to be taking it seriously, even linking somehow the new RS-28 Sarmat missile with the invasion (the ridiculous title reads: "Russia could invade Brazil with Satan 2 missile".
    http://afolhabrasil.com.br/politica/russia-pode-invadir-o-brasil-com-o-missil-sata-2/
    Couldn't find anything in English, though.
    Even if Putin had any will to invade Brazil (and I am sure he hasn't), I think I don't need to list the reasons why it is just impossible.

    I am sad that Latin America is so badly f*cked up. The people there are nice and don't deserve the shit regimes and Uncle Scumbag bootlick
    elites and mass media. To worry about Russia when Uncle Scumbag has his schlong up Latin America's collect anus is simply too much.

    Note how this time around the Russian bogeyman is supposedly invading instead of spreading commie revolution.
    avatar
    Svyatoslavich


    Posts : 399
    Points : 400
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Svyatoslavich Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:42 pm

    kvs wrote:I am sad that Latin America is so badly f*cked up.   The people there are nice and don't deserve the shit regimes and Uncle Scumbag bootlick
    elites and mass media.   To worry about Russia when Uncle Scumbag has his schlong up Latin America's collect anus is simply too much.  

    Note how this time around the Russian bogeyman is supposedly invading instead of spreading commie revolution.
    The worst part is that there is no alternative. It is not that the previous, leftist government, was a good option: it was severely ideologized with wrong economical policies, behind the curtains had their agreement with Washigton despite their "anti-imperialistic" rhetorics, and was corrupt to the core (just like the current government, by the way). The same is valid for Argentina and Venezuela. No Putin in the region, unfortunately.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:22 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    kvs wrote:I am sad that Latin America is so badly f*cked up.   The people there are nice and don't deserve the shit regimes and Uncle Scumbag bootlick
    elites and mass media.   To worry about Russia when Uncle Scumbag has his schlong up Latin America's collect anus is simply too much.  

    Note how this time around the Russian bogeyman is supposedly invading instead of spreading commie revolution.
    The worst part is that there is no alternative. It is not that the previous, leftist government, was a good option: it was severely ideologized with wrong economical policies, behind the curtains had their agreement with Washigton despite their "anti-imperialistic" rhetorics, and was corrupt to the core (just like the current government, by the way). The same is valid for Argentina and Venezuela. No Putin in the region, unfortunately.


    Well in other news, it looks like South Korea's Park Geun-hye is likely going to get the same treatment, probably because she's not a big enough hawk:

    http://journal-neo.org/2016/11/03/the-scandal-around-park-geun-hye-and-choi-soon-sil-pre-election-exacerbation/
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest


    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Guest Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:11 pm

    Western propaganda - Page 19 14915684_10211547316425446_3096704995934434974_n
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13304
    Points : 13346
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:57 pm

    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 14915684_10211547316425446_3096704995934434974_n

    You have got to be sh*tting me... Suspect lol1
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2470
    Points : 2461
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:46 am

    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 14915684_10211547316425446_3096704995934434974_n

    What the Holy F#ck. Shocked
    KiloGolf
    KiloGolf


    Posts : 2481
    Points : 2461
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  KiloGolf Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:13 am

    These are twitter memes made by Trump supporters. Chill
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2470
    Points : 2461
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:32 am

    KiloGolf wrote:These are twitter memes made by Trump supporters. Chill

    Ah, i should have know, it mentions a frigin draft and an obvious fake @ss .gov website.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty The Real Story Behind Hillary Clinton's Feud With Vladimir Putin

    Post  Austin Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:39 am

    The Real Story Behind Hillary Clinton's Feud With Vladimir Putin

    http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-real-story-behind-hillary-clintons-feud-with-vladimir-putin-1621236?pfrom=home-lateststories


    In one of her last acts as secretary of state in early 2013, Hillary Clinton wrote a confidential memo to the White House on how to handle Vladimir Putin, Russia's newly installed and increasingly aggressive fourth president. Her bluntly worded advice: Snub him.

    "Don't appear too eager to work together," Clinton urged President Barack Obama, according to her recollection of the note in her 2014 memoir. "Don't flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit."

    It was harsh advice coming from the administration's top diplomat, and Obama would ignore key parts of it. But the memo succinctly captured a personal view about Putin on the part of the future Democratic presidential nominee: a deep skepticism, informed by bitter experience, that would be likely to define U.S.-Russian relations if Clinton is elected. Her lasting conclusion, as she would acknowledge, was that "strength and resolve were the only language Putin would understand."

    Putin has been thrust unexpectedly onto the center stage in the U.S. presidential race, with Republican contender Donald Trump expressing admiration for the Kremlin strongman even as intelligence officials investigate apparent Russian attempts to interfere in the campaign. Clinton, by contrast, has used tough talk about Russia to burnish her credentials as an experienced diplomat who can stand up to the United States' adversaries.

    For Clinton, the rhetoric reflects genuine disappointment and frustration from a tumultuous term as secretary of state during which cooperation between Moscow and Washington briefly soared, only to come crashing to Earth after Putin's reelection as president in 2012, following a four-year hiatus, according to current and former U.S. officials involved in Russian policymaking at the time. Clinton, who began her tenure by famously offering a "reset" of Russian relations, would end it by publicly blasting Putin's government on issues including alleged vote-rigging in Russia and Putin's support for authoritarian Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

    Putin would fire back with repeated attacks against her, often injecting an unusually personal tone into the growing diplomatic rift. The exchanges helped cement an adversarial view of Clinton on the Russian side that may explain, more than any other single factor, the apparent efforts by Russian operatives to influence the election by hacking email accounts of senior Clinton staff members, longtime Kremlin observers say.

    "She has policies and a history that the Russians don't like," said Michael McFaul, who became the U.S. ambassador to Moscow during Clinton's final year as secretary of state. "It's frequently forgotten because there's so much noise about Trump and Putin. But this history is real, and Putin doesn't forget these things."

    ---

    Clinton's strong views about Putin predated her arrival at Foggy Bottom in 2009 as Obama's first secretary of state. As a U.S. senator, she condemned Russia's military incursion in August 2008 in the Georgian republic and suggested that Putin, a former Soviet KGB officer who was then Russia's prime minister, was a throwback to the country's hegemonic past.

    President George W. Bush had famously vouched for Putin's character in 2001 by saying that he'd looked into the Russian's eyes and gotten "a sense of his soul." But Clinton, during her own first presidential campaign in early 2008, insisted that Bush had seen no such thing.

    "He was a KGB agent - by definition he doesn't have a soul," Clinton said.

    Just over a year later, Obama's surprise choice as secretary of state was tasked with managing the administration's "Russian reset" policy, which sought to take advantage of the leadership change in both Washington and Moscow to inaugurate a new era of cooperation. The new White House believed Russia's new president, Dmitry Medvedev - a St. Petersburg politician 13 years younger than Putin and lacking his predecessor's experience in the Soviet bureaucracy - might be more open to a real partnership.

    Former State Department and White House officials who attended early strategy meetings said that Clinton ultimately agreed with the approach. But she remained broadly skeptical that the relationship with Russia would ever extend beyond specific issues where Moscow saw an advantage in cooperation.

    "The reset was the president's idea - it was something he wanted to do," said Philip Gordon, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs during Clinton's tenure. "But there was this logic that we were in a terrible place with Russia, and we should give it a shot to see if we could get some concrete things done, in our own interest."

    Another senior U.S. official present during the discussions attributed Clinton's reluctance to lingering suspicions about Putin. The former KGB operative who served as president in the early 2000s had accepted the prime minister's job under Medvedev, but many Kremlin watchers believed that Putin was still Russia's de facto leader, and that Obama's attempts to woo Medvedev misunderstood the real power structure in the Kremlin. These observers watched Putin's hardening view toward the United States with increasing concern.

    "It was right to be skeptical that you could translate that [reset] into a durable, strategic partnership," said the official, who helped guide Russian diplomacy during Republican and Democratic administrations and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal policy debates freely. "Structurally, we still faced a lot of problems dealing with Russia," including a "fundamental difference in worldview."

    The policy's official launch was a flub: At a Geneva news conference in March 2009, Clinton presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with a mounted red button emblazoned with the word "reset" in English, and the Russian word "peregruzka" - a translation error by the U.S. team that left the bewildered Lavrov puzzling over a term meaning "overload."

    ---

    Years later, Lavrov would dismiss the reset as "the invention of Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration." He noted pointedly in a Bloomberg News interview that he had a very good relationship with Condoleezza Rice, Clinton's immediate predecessor as secretary of state.

    Despite doubts, the new approach seemed initially to bear fruit.

    Within a little more than a year, the two governments had notched historic agreements, including a new treaty on reducing nuclear stockpiles and a pact allowing U.S. military planes to use Russian airspace in delivering supplies to troops in Afghanistan.

    Americans and Russians, working in unusual accord, achieved striking progress on some of the thorniest disputes before the United Nations. In 2010, Washington and Moscow cooperated on a package of unprecedented U.N. economic sanctions that ultimately drove Iran to negotiations about limiting its nuclear program. The administration worked with Moscow to overcome U.S. objections to Russia's long-standing effort to join the World Trade Organization.

    In 2011, Russia withheld its veto on the U.S.-led effort to authorize the international military campaign to stop Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi from slaughtering thousands of his own citizens - an act of diplomatic restraint that many U.S. officials regard as the "reset" era's high-water mark.

    "With the reset, we were never seeking goodwill with Russia; we were seeking a new strategy," said McFaul, the former U.S. ambassador. "It was most productive in terms of concrete outcomes - not holding hands and singing Kumbaya, but real stuff, including some of our biggest security and economic priorities."

    But beneath a more placid surface, old conflicts continued both at home and abroad, and new ones would emerge.

    In Washington, many of the administration's Russian initiatives were drawing skepticism from Congress. In 2010, Obama had announced that he was discontinuing a Bush-era Eastern European missile defense shield that Russia viewed as a military threat, in favor of a new program designed to combat potential strikes from Iranian short- and medium-range missiles. But many Republicans criticized the change - which had been recommended by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Bush holdover - as an unwarranted and unwise favor to Russia, granted by a naive young administration.

    Russian officials began publicly ruing their tacit support for U.N.-approved military action in Libya, after the intervention expanded from a simple civilian-protection mission to a sustained bombing campaign that led to the overthrow and assassination of Gaddafi. The Kremlin now believed it had been tricked into allowing the U.N. resolution to move forward.

    Putin, according to U.S. officials who met with him at the time, concluded that the Americans were most interested in pursuing regime change for governments they disliked, first in Baghdad and Tripoli, and later in Damascus. Eventually he became convinced that it was the Kremlin that the United States most wanted to change. Logically, Clinton, a strong proponent of U.S. military action in Libya and Syria, would be on the side of those seeking new leadership in Moscow, he believed.

    Suddenly, the Russians were casting skeptical looks at joint programs that had received strong support in both capitals. One casualty was the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, which funded the dismantling of Soviet-era nuclear, chemical and biological weapons systems to prevent them from being stolen by terrorists or purchased by rogue states.

    The program's co-founder, Sen. Richard Lugar, Ind., who served as the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during Clinton's tenure, began noticing a change in tone during his many visits to meet with the initiative's Russian partners. Powerful Russian military officials, some of them close allies of Putin, were beginning to perceive such ventures as part of the American plan to weaken the country. The military's political champion was Putin, who decided in 2011 to run for president again, replacing his protege Medvedev after a single term in office.

    "Putin had come to the point where he felt it was no longer necessary to cooperate," Lugar said, "and it might even be demeaning to Russia."

    ---

    In December 2011, despite a deepening economic crisis, Putin's United Russia party retained control of the Duma in parliamentary elections that independent monitoring groups described as fraudulent.

    Thousands of Russians took to the streets in protest, and Clinton - with the White House's explicit blessing - spoke publicly in their defense, condemning Russian officials for manipulating the vote and systematically harassing election observers.

    "The Russian people, like people everywhere, deserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted," Clinton said during a speech that month in Lithuania. "And that means they deserve fair, free, transparent elections and leaders who are accountable to them."

    After her speech, when demonstrations in Moscow grew still larger, Putin suggested that his political opponents were following marching orders from Clinton and her team.

    Opposition parties "heard the signal, and with the support of the U.S. State Department began active work," Putin said. Kremlin officials repeated the charge in private meetings with U.S. diplomats, expressing a vehemence that surprised some Obama administration officials.

    Even before the protests - and his own reelection as president in March 2012 - Putin had begun signaling the return of a more authoritarian and aggressive Russia. Beginning in late 2011, the Russian government would adopt policies stifling political dissent at home and increasing pressure on the former Soviet republics, from the Baltic to the Caucasus to Ukraine.

    Clinton began privately warning the White House on how Putin's return could affect a wide range of U.S. foreign policy priorities, such as promoting democracy in Eastern Europe and containing a Syrian civil war that was beginning to ignite sectarian violence and jihadist fervor throughout the Middle East.

    She "argued that we were in for a rougher patch and needed to be clear-eyed about that," said the senior U.S. official who worked for Republican and Democratic administrations. "It was a very honest analysis of the fact that, whatever hopes some people had early on for a more durable partnership, it just wasn't going to happen."

    In fact, things fell apart with surprising speed. In 2012, Putin abruptly halted Russia's participation in the Nunn-Lugar program. That same year, he expelled the U.S. Agency for International Development from Russia, charging interference in domestic affairs and ending USAID's multimillion-dollar support for Russian civil society organizations.

    Putin then repeatedly blocked U.S.-led efforts to resolve Syria's civil war, insisting on preserving the presidency of Assad, a close Russian ally. Two years later - well after Clinton had left office - Putin stunned the world by snatching the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine, something he had first threatened to do nearly a decade earlier.

    Yet, while each of those actions was consistent with Putin's combative style, Russia's disputes with the Obama administration took on a more personal tone after 2011, several current and former U.S. officials and Russian policy experts said.

    Today, with Clinton now aiming for the White House, it's not surprising that Putin might support clandestine efforts to undermine her candidacy - regardless of his views of her chief political opponent, the officials and experts said.

    "Putin has kind of got it in for Hillary," said Clifford Kupchan, chairman of the consulting firm Eurasia Group and a Russia expert who attended private meetings with Putin during the Clinton years. "The statements after the Duma riots were like kerosene on a fire, and it really made Putin angry."

    Putin last week denied taking sides in the U.S. presidential race, and he scoffed at allegations of Russian involvement in the hacking of Democratic officials' email accounts, a crime that U.S. intelligence agencies believe was instigated at the highest levels of the Russian government.

    Kupchan said he thinks that Russia's role in the hacking, if verified, was "more about sowing some chaos in the U.S. system than about any real hope of Trump winning." But he said it also reflects a shot across Clinton's bow, as her record suggests that she would be both tougher and more outspoken on Russia compared to her predecessor.

    "It may well be useful that she has a tough image," he said. "Mrs. Clinton has been through the same journey that a lot of us have gone through on Russia, which is dashed hopes."

    When it comes to Putin's Russia, he said, "she doesn't wear deeply tinted sunglasses of any kind."

    © 2016 The Washington Post

    (This story has not been edited by NDTV staff and is auto-generated from a syndicated feed.)
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest


    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Guest Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:06 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 14915684_10211547316425446_3096704995934434974_n

    What the Holy F#ck. Shocked

    Its poster made by "pro-Trumph" crowd online used to mock extensive propaganda in the US atm over female population to vote for Hillary coz she is a....female, sort of. Actually by research almost 80% of female voters that will vote for Hillary will vote for her just coz she is a woman. So this mocked that fact and her speech aganist Russia, Putin etc.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15166
    Points : 15303
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  kvs Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:36 pm

    Militarov wrote:


    Its poster made by "pro-Trumph" crowd online used to mock extensive propaganda in the US atm over female population to vote for Hillary coz she is a....female, sort of. Actually by research almost 80% of female voters that will vote for Hillary will vote for her just coz she is a woman. So this mocked that fact and her speech aganist Russia, Putin etc.


    An excellent argument against universal suffrage. If 50% of the voters will vote based on such "issues" (whether the candidate is female or how hot the guy is) then they should not be voting at all. Such saps can be leveraged by malicious elements to get a grip on power. We see this right now in the US election. If the females had enough awareness about the nature of Killary and not what is between her legs then they would not be voting for her. I guess they also buy into all that humanitarian bombing BS as well.
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2470
    Points : 2461
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:21 pm

    Austin wrote:The Real Story Behind Hillary Clinton's Feud With Vladimir Putin

    http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-real-story-behind-hillary-clintons-feud-with-vladimir-putin-1621236?pfrom=home-lateststories


    In one of her last acts as secretary of state in early 2013, Hillary Clinton wrote a confidential memo to the White House on how to handle Vladimir Putin, Russia's newly installed and increasingly aggressive fourth president. Her bluntly worded advice: Snub him.

    "Don't appear too eager to work together," Clinton urged President Barack Obama, according to her recollection of the note in her 2014 memoir. "Don't flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit."

    It was harsh advice coming from the administration's top diplomat, and Obama would ignore key parts of it. But the memo succinctly captured a personal view about Putin on the part of the future Democratic presidential nominee: a deep skepticism, informed by bitter experience, that would be likely to define U.S.-Russian relations if Clinton is elected. Her lasting conclusion, as she would acknowledge, was that "strength and resolve were the only language Putin would understand."

    Putin has been thrust unexpectedly onto the center stage in the U.S. presidential race, with Republican contender Donald Trump expressing admiration for the Kremlin strongman even as intelligence officials investigate apparent Russian attempts to interfere in the campaign. Clinton, by contrast, has used tough talk about Russia to burnish her credentials as an experienced diplomat who can stand up to the United States' adversaries.

    For Clinton, the rhetoric reflects genuine disappointment and frustration from a tumultuous term as secretary of state during which cooperation between Moscow and Washington briefly soared, only to come crashing to Earth after Putin's reelection as president in 2012, following a four-year hiatus, according to current and former U.S. officials involved in Russian policymaking at the time. Clinton, who began her tenure by famously offering a "reset" of Russian relations, would end it by publicly blasting Putin's government on issues including alleged vote-rigging in Russia and Putin's support for authoritarian Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

    Putin would fire back with repeated attacks against her, often injecting an unusually personal tone into the growing diplomatic rift. The exchanges helped cement an adversarial view of Clinton on the Russian side that may explain, more than any other single factor, the apparent efforts by Russian operatives to influence the election by hacking email accounts of senior Clinton staff members, longtime Kremlin observers say.

    "She has policies and a history that the Russians don't like," said Michael McFaul, who became the U.S. ambassador to Moscow during Clinton's final year as secretary of state. "It's frequently forgotten because there's so much noise about Trump and Putin. But this history is real, and Putin doesn't forget these things."

    ---

    Clinton's strong views about Putin predated her arrival at Foggy Bottom in 2009 as Obama's first secretary of state. As a U.S. senator, she condemned Russia's military incursion in August 2008 in the Georgian republic and suggested that Putin, a former Soviet KGB officer who was then Russia's prime minister, was a throwback to the country's hegemonic past.

    President George W. Bush had famously vouched for Putin's character in 2001 by saying that he'd looked into the Russian's eyes and gotten "a sense of his soul." But Clinton, during her own first presidential campaign in early 2008, insisted that Bush had seen no such thing.

    "He was a KGB agent - by definition he doesn't have a soul," Clinton said.

    Just over a year later, Obama's surprise choice as secretary of state was tasked with managing the administration's "Russian reset" policy, which sought to take advantage of the leadership change in both Washington and Moscow to inaugurate a new era of cooperation. The new White House believed Russia's new president, Dmitry Medvedev - a St. Petersburg politician 13 years younger than Putin and lacking his predecessor's experience in the Soviet bureaucracy - might be more open to a real partnership.

    Former State Department and White House officials who attended early strategy meetings said that Clinton ultimately agreed with the approach. But she remained broadly skeptical that the relationship with Russia would ever extend beyond specific issues where Moscow saw an advantage in cooperation.

    "The reset was the president's idea - it was something he wanted to do," said Philip Gordon, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs during Clinton's tenure. "But there was this logic that we were in a terrible place with Russia, and we should give it a shot to see if we could get some concrete things done, in our own interest."

    Another senior U.S. official present during the discussions attributed Clinton's reluctance to lingering suspicions about Putin. The former KGB operative who served as president in the early 2000s had accepted the prime minister's job under Medvedev, but many Kremlin watchers believed that Putin was still Russia's de facto leader, and that Obama's attempts to woo Medvedev misunderstood the real power structure in the Kremlin. These observers watched Putin's hardening view toward the United States with increasing concern.

    "It was right to be skeptical that you could translate that [reset] into a durable, strategic partnership," said the official, who helped guide Russian diplomacy during Republican and Democratic administrations and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal policy debates freely. "Structurally, we still faced a lot of problems dealing with Russia," including a "fundamental difference in worldview."

    The policy's official launch was a flub: At a Geneva news conference in March 2009, Clinton presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with a mounted red button emblazoned with the word "reset" in English, and the Russian word "peregruzka" - a translation error by the U.S. team that left the bewildered Lavrov puzzling over a term meaning "overload."

    ---

    Years later, Lavrov would dismiss the reset as "the invention of Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration." He noted pointedly in a Bloomberg News interview that he had a very good relationship with Condoleezza Rice, Clinton's immediate predecessor as secretary of state.

    Despite doubts, the new approach seemed initially to bear fruit.

    Within a little more than a year, the two governments had notched historic agreements, including a new treaty on reducing nuclear stockpiles and a pact allowing U.S. military planes to use Russian airspace in delivering supplies to troops in Afghanistan.

    Americans and Russians, working in unusual accord, achieved striking progress on some of the thorniest disputes before the United Nations. In 2010, Washington and Moscow cooperated on a package of unprecedented U.N. economic sanctions that ultimately drove Iran to negotiations about limiting its nuclear program. The administration worked with Moscow to overcome U.S. objections to Russia's long-standing effort to join the World Trade Organization.

    In 2011, Russia withheld its veto on the U.S.-led effort to authorize the international military campaign to stop Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi from slaughtering thousands of his own citizens - an act of diplomatic restraint that many U.S. officials regard as the "reset" era's high-water mark.

    "With the reset, we were never seeking goodwill with Russia; we were seeking a new strategy," said McFaul, the former U.S. ambassador. "It was most productive in terms of concrete outcomes - not holding hands and singing Kumbaya, but real stuff, including some of our biggest security and economic priorities."

    But beneath a more placid surface, old conflicts continued both at home and abroad, and new ones would emerge.

    In Washington, many of the administration's Russian initiatives were drawing skepticism from Congress. In 2010, Obama had announced that he was discontinuing a Bush-era Eastern European missile defense shield that Russia viewed as a military threat, in favor of a new program designed to combat potential strikes from Iranian short- and medium-range missiles. But many Republicans criticized the change - which had been recommended by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Bush holdover - as an unwarranted and unwise favor to Russia, granted by a naive young administration.

    Russian officials began publicly ruing their tacit support for U.N.-approved military action in Libya, after the intervention expanded from a simple civilian-protection mission to a sustained bombing campaign that led to the overthrow and assassination of Gaddafi. The Kremlin now believed it had been tricked into allowing the U.N. resolution to move forward.

    Putin, according to U.S. officials who met with him at the time, concluded that the Americans were most interested in pursuing regime change for governments they disliked, first in Baghdad and Tripoli, and later in Damascus. Eventually he became convinced that it was the Kremlin that the United States most wanted to change. Logically, Clinton, a strong proponent of U.S. military action in Libya and Syria, would be on the side of those seeking new leadership in Moscow, he believed.

    Suddenly, the Russians were casting skeptical looks at joint programs that had received strong support in both capitals. One casualty was the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, which funded the dismantling of Soviet-era nuclear, chemical and biological weapons systems to prevent them from being stolen by terrorists or purchased by rogue states.

    The program's co-founder, Sen. Richard Lugar, Ind., who served as the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during Clinton's tenure, began noticing a change in tone during his many visits to meet with the initiative's Russian partners. Powerful Russian military officials, some of them close allies of Putin, were beginning to perceive such ventures as part of the American plan to weaken the country. The military's political champion was Putin, who decided in 2011 to run for president again, replacing his protege Medvedev after a single term in office.

    "Putin had come to the point where he felt it was no longer necessary to cooperate," Lugar said, "and it might even be demeaning to Russia."

    ---

    In December 2011, despite a deepening economic crisis, Putin's United Russia party retained control of the Duma in parliamentary elections that independent monitoring groups described as fraudulent.

    Thousands of Russians took to the streets in protest, and Clinton - with the White House's explicit blessing - spoke publicly in their defense, condemning Russian officials for manipulating the vote and systematically harassing election observers.

    "The Russian people, like people everywhere, deserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted," Clinton said during a speech that month in Lithuania. "And that means they deserve fair, free, transparent elections and leaders who are accountable to them."

    After her speech, when demonstrations in Moscow grew still larger, Putin suggested that his political opponents were following marching orders from Clinton and her team.

    Opposition parties "heard the signal, and with the support of the U.S. State Department began active work," Putin said. Kremlin officials repeated the charge in private meetings with U.S. diplomats, expressing a vehemence that surprised some Obama administration officials.

    Even before the protests - and his own reelection as president in March 2012 - Putin had begun signaling the return of a more authoritarian and aggressive Russia. Beginning in late 2011, the Russian government would adopt policies stifling political dissent at home and increasing pressure on the former Soviet republics, from the Baltic to the Caucasus to Ukraine.

    Clinton began privately warning the White House on how Putin's return could affect a wide range of U.S. foreign policy priorities, such as promoting democracy in Eastern Europe and containing a Syrian civil war that was beginning to ignite sectarian violence and jihadist fervor throughout the Middle East.

    She "argued that we were in for a rougher patch and needed to be clear-eyed about that," said the senior U.S. official who worked for Republican and Democratic administrations. "It was a very honest analysis of the fact that, whatever hopes some people had early on for a more durable partnership, it just wasn't going to happen."

    In fact, things fell apart with surprising speed. In 2012, Putin abruptly halted Russia's participation in the Nunn-Lugar program. That same year, he expelled the U.S. Agency for International Development from Russia, charging interference in domestic affairs and ending USAID's multimillion-dollar support for Russian civil society organizations.

    Putin then repeatedly blocked U.S.-led efforts to resolve Syria's civil war, insisting on preserving the presidency of Assad, a close Russian ally. Two years later - well after Clinton had left office - Putin stunned the world by snatching the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine, something he had first threatened to do nearly a decade earlier.

    Yet, while each of those actions was consistent with Putin's combative style, Russia's disputes with the Obama administration took on a more personal tone after 2011, several current and former U.S. officials and Russian policy experts said.

    Today, with Clinton now aiming for the White House, it's not surprising that Putin might support clandestine efforts to undermine her candidacy - regardless of his views of her chief political opponent, the officials and experts said.

    "Putin has kind of got it in for Hillary," said Clifford Kupchan, chairman of the consulting firm Eurasia Group and a Russia expert who attended private meetings with Putin during the Clinton years. "The statements after the Duma riots were like kerosene on a fire, and it really made Putin angry."

    Putin last week denied taking sides in the U.S. presidential race, and he scoffed at allegations of Russian involvement in the hacking of Democratic officials' email accounts, a crime that U.S. intelligence agencies believe was instigated at the highest levels of the Russian government.

    Kupchan said he thinks that Russia's role in the hacking, if verified, was "more about sowing some chaos in the U.S. system than about any real hope of Trump winning." But he said it also reflects a shot across Clinton's bow, as her record suggests that she would be both tougher and more outspoken on Russia compared to her predecessor.

    "It may well be useful that she has a tough image," he said. "Mrs. Clinton has been through the same journey that a lot of us have gone through on Russia, which is dashed hopes."

    When it comes to Putin's Russia, he said, "she doesn't wear deeply tinted sunglasses of any kind."

    © 2016 The Washington Post

    (This story has not been edited by NDTV staff and is auto-generated from a syndicated feed.)

    WTF, the U.S is the one playing victim here, get the F outta here, Russia isn't the one placing troops near U.S borders.

    P.S: This was written by 2 "journalists" from the WP?

    You should have posted this here: https://www.russiadefence.net/t2433-western-propaganda
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15166
    Points : 15303
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  kvs Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:32 am

    Western propaganda - Page 19 CwaPpXsW8AAOjad

    Russians repress gays, Russians send gays to destroy America.

    The west, a pile of schizophrenic hate.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39144
    Points : 39642
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:09 am

    I am afraid I agree... Putin getting in the way of a solution in Syria is case in point...

    The US wants to destroy Syria and cares little that the head hunters and women burners they support consist of 1,000 different factions... none of which could actually work with each other... they only seem to be able to work with ISIS and Alquada... ironically.

    The US solution for Syria would look like the US solution in Libya... chaos.

    But then they don't care about peace and democracy... they just want Saudi and Quatar gas pipelines reaching Europe through Syria as competition to Iranian gas or Russian gas... the Syrian people could all burn for all America cares.

    Damn that Putin for thinking a stable government is best for Syria and that their problems are better solved around a talks table rather than from the muzzle of a rifle or machine gun.

    Doesn't he realise that all the worlds population is expendable and that anything goes as long as the US is satisfied?

    Clinton is a bitch and will probably be the next US president.

    I doubt that will actually make US Russian relations any worse than they are now.

    She will make some stupid decisions like a no fly zone in Syria and US soldiers will pay the price for that stupidity when US aircraft trying to enforce such a no fly zone will get painted with S-400 radar and forced to leave the airspace or be shot down.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Austin Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:51 pm

    Garry , Like I mentioned My real fear is and I always think about it every time that once she becomes President with perhaps worst reputation any POTUS had to start with , She will try to deflect all the information put by Wikileaks which most likely then not will be investigated by congress by going to proxy war with Russian in Ukraine and Syria.

    How she successfully managed to divert all the Wikileaks allegation by simply blaming on Russian hackers , blaming Kremlim and the MSM was just cheering her.

    Imagine if the same person becomes president she wont stop of creating proxy war in Ukraine and Syria with Russia to divert all the congress investigation and trying to take the air from investigation.

    I am sure she can do all this and worse with the reputation she got .

    She might even use US military hacker which today news say have maneged to penetrate RUssian Military and do stupid things like shoot civil aircraft or something that can easily be blamed on Russian Military

    I hope Russia will be able to deal with her , I used to think Obama was the worse and here comes Hillary with her hatred towards Putin and now sure how low this will go.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39144
    Points : 39642
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:13 am

    The thing about US elections however is candidates like to talk tough and make the other guy look weak on defence, but when they actually get into power what they actually do and say is often rather different.

    First of all presidents can't actually do anything they like... that is what congress is actually for, and a hostile congress is the only thing that saves america from doing some very stupid things sometimes.

    Of course helping Al quada in Syria is americas duty while fighting them in Iraq is something they are slowly building up to... if it was important to their interests they would have done it long ago, but the sad thing is that ISIS is the sunni iraqis that were under saddam when America took them out. The regime that took their place are friendly to Iran and Syria so pro sunni fuckwits actually get US and Saudi support... that and the fact that Iraq was broken and left to pick up the pieces on their own, and that they actively tried to break Syria too led to the rise of ISIS so quickly.

    Hopefully she will get polonium poisoning and everything will again be Putins fault...
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest


    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Guest Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:43 pm

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Cw-fLXJWIAEzT30
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2470
    Points : 2461
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  AlfaT8 Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:09 pm

    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 Cw-fLXJWIAEzT30

    Western propaganda - Page 19 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fk30.kn3.net%2Ftaringa%2F5%2F1%2FD%2FF%2FA%2F8%2Faliencogedor%2F231
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:15 am

    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 Cw-fLXJWIAEzT30

    A Jewish Canadian is now intended as American...What a victory for US edumacation.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15166
    Points : 15303
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  kvs Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:48 am

    Militarov wrote:Western propaganda - Page 19 Cw-fLXJWIAEzT30

    Non sequitur. But that is not surprising coming from the mentally deficient.

    Sponsored content


    Western propaganda - Page 19 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu May 16, 2024 4:35 pm