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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:03 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    it's silly to compare a small missile ship to a supercarrier

    It's silly to commission a ship only to stick to a schedule, even if it's not ready. Zumwalt suffered two engine breakdowns after commissioning. LCS suffered engine breakdown one month after commissioning and mission modules aren't working properly.

    Why have Russians taken a lot of time to commission Ivan Gren or Gorshkov?  

    Russians don't care how late they commission a ship and how big is their navy. It's better to be realistic, rather then idolise planned commission deadlines and 355-ship navy, even if it means keeping old non-modernised Ticonderogas and Arleigh Burkes "in service", even if not operational, so public doesn't get angry and you don't lose the elections.

    Russians navy is trended upward since 2000, while US is only dreaming about keeping status quo - world domination. But the world is changing. And it's time to start changing the strategy towards multipolarity, because in the world where combined Russian and Chinese navies are stronger than the US navy and Iran has huge fleet of submarines, the defensive powers are simply to strong to stick to offensive 11-CVN dream of world domination.

    Yeah and since then there haven't really been engine problems the issues have been fixed, but hey the russians are immune to those right?. Or is that the logic here something happened, the problem was fixed but hey still use that has an excuse and you guys wonder half the time's things aren't taken seriously.

    Yeah the LCS are junk you won't see me deny that.

    there is many reasons why they took so long, but honestly, I do not want to drum that beat up again.

    You mean the reserve fleet? those aren't considered active.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:12 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Yes because saying it's silly to compare a small missile ship to a supercarrier is attacking.

    Now did I ever make any excuses? No I did not. supercarriers are much much much much more complex to build then Small Missile Ships, I am not excusing any issues merely that if you need to compare something at least make it an equal comparison. If you cannot handle criticism for Russia stop being an admin, I see people here all the time bash the carrier and other things and I mostly say nothing.

    singular, for example, mention the Litoral ships, that is a much better comparison.

    Two totally different ships, different functions, and max different size, propulsion etc the only things those boats have in common is they float.

    Oh girl you kill me sometimes, when the russians make their own Super then you can Compare the Ford class with that because then it's a fair comparison.

    The US struggling /failed to develop the new Ford carrier ,the new destroyer and the new littoral ships.

    To make things worst the US stick to the original shipping schedule to make the numbers nice, but all ship built for unmatured/unfinished weapon systems, so they risking to have useless/not warcapable ships.

    It is better to  make later the second/third / fourth/sixth carrier than the have five unusable .

    I don't know where you get your information about US tech because again, you are spouting wrong information.

    We have already addressed the issues with the Ford and design changes and corrections have been made to the following ships to fix all the issues. The first ship of the class always has the job of showing what needs to be corrected, that is normal. You are displaying biased information again.

    The ones after Cv-78 will not have the problems CV-78 does and many of the issues on CV-78 are being fixed, someone cannot be such as the emails config yes. So failing to develop? give me a break again if you must talk to me about Us tech don't be biased about dude and if honestly, you cannot manage that don't talk to me sound good?.

    What new DD The Zum's? we have stopped producing these they violated Nunn–McCurdy Amendment we aren't producing them anymore and won't have more them that three of them?. However, the ships are sound the issues was with it was stability which has been proven is fine and a choice of secondary guns the guns work fine just some believe another type is better others don't. There is no mountain of issues with them like you seemed to enjoy pretending.

    the LCS are shit yes.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:01 am

    Yes because saying it's silly to compare a small missile ship to a supercarrier is attacking.

    Suggesting the US having problems with their ship programmes is not OK, but complaining about Russian ship programmes is necessary...

    The US has made dozens of large carriers, but is still having problems with new carriers... I thought the inference is clear... it does not matter how big or small a ship is... if it is new technology then there will be problems integrating it and getting it to work seamlessly together... but no... the US is building Death Stars, which is hard so they can make all the fuckups they want, and Russia is making laser rifles and should be getting the right first time every time because rifles are simple compared with Death Stars...

    If you cannot handle criticism for Russia stop being an admin, I see people here all the time bash the carrier and other things and I mostly say nothing.

    Seems to me more like criticism of the US is not acceptable.... they are leading the way... breaking new ground... building super weapons.... yet still they can do no wrong...


    Two totally different ships, different functions, and max different size, propulsion etc the only things those boats have in common is they float.

    And that they are new and are having problems...  of course one is made by a hyper power with unlimited funding and never admits to getting anything wrong, and the other is made by Russia... boo Russia.... can't even make fishing boats...

    Oh girl you kill me sometimes,...

    Hahahaha... funny the way the brain works... when I read that I remembered an old Monty Python sketch that had one of the Pythons... I think it was Graham... being chased by an enormous number of beautiful women on rollerskates... all topless... they chased him through a town and then up a hill and off a cliff... something about criminals being able to choose the method of their death when getting the death penalty or some such thing...

    when the russians make their own Super then you can Compare the Ford class with that because then it's a fair comparison.

    The Russians will never make a Ford class carrier type vessel, they simply don't need that sort of thing.

    At most they will make a 70K ton vessel for air defence of Russian naval surface action groups around the place... maybe 2 of them eventually.

    I don't know where you get your information about US tech because again, you are spouting wrong information.

    Of course... America is the best place in the world.... but when are they going to fix their F-22s and F-35s... I wont hold my breath..... Hahahahahaha.. Razz Twisted Evil

    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  marat on Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:28 am

    Situation is very simple ,

    1. this is NOT us Navy Forum, but it IS Russian navy forum. I do not give a shit for US navy problems. But I do care about Russian navy problems.  

    2. US Navy have enough ships and planes, even If they have just 1/3 of their current strength they would be most powerful navy in world.

    3. Russian navy does not have enough strength, in last 25 years they managed to produce just several big (3000t+) warships (starting with Neustrashivy). IN 25 years.


    Stop finding excuses in other countries problem, as those other countries manage to solve them much better then Russia. USA have problems but they still (Unlike Russia) produce ships in more then sufficient numbers and time frames.  

    Excuse is like ass, everybody have it.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:00 am

    marat wrote:Excuse is like ass, everybody have it.

    We're not in alternative dimension where only Russia exists. We're studying Russia relative to others. Navy is only a means of achieving something and it means connecting with others and competing with others. It's very relevant to compare your and foreign shipbuilding capabilities, problems and problem solving techniques.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:25 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    I don't know where you get your information about US tech because again, you are spouting wrong information.

    We have already addressed the issues with the Ford and design changes and corrections have been made to the following ships to fix all the issues. The first ship of the class always has the job of showing what needs to be corrected, that is normal. You are displaying biased information again.

    The ones after Cv-78 will not have the problems CV-78 does and many of the issues on CV-78 are being fixed, someone cannot be such as the emails config yes. So failing to develop? give me a break again if you must talk to me about Us tech don't be biased about dude and if honestly, you cannot manage that don't talk to me sound good?.

    What new DD The Zum's? we have stopped producing these they violated Nunn–McCurdy Amendment we aren't producing them anymore and won't have more them that three of them?. However, the ships are sound the issues was with it was stability which has been proven is fine and a choice of secondary guns the guns work fine just some believe another type is better others don't. There is no mountain of issues with them like you seemed to enjoy pretending.

    the LCS are shit yes.

    The Ford problems are not "normal" , first of the class problems.
    After 5 years it is still not ready for commission ( even i they did it to give money to the suppliers : D ) for the Nimitz it took 3 years to get commissioned after launch.
    If you check the first three Nimitz schedule it become visible how bad is the situation with the Ford.
    It has no working launching, arresting, weapons handling and radar system, and they still wait to conduct the shock trial of the class even with the second carrier get close to the launch, and the long lead time materials are already under order/manufacturing for the third.

    So, it is an unmitigated disaster, by high chance the US navy will end up three , Zumwalt like useless carrier, to use it as helicopter / F-35B platforms.

    And the Zumwalt failed BECAUSE they failed to develop the required technology within budget . But the failures are always due to that, if you have infinite amount of money / resources than all problem can be solved.

    And this is pervasive in the US military.
    The suppliers bribe the military officers, and they let the suppliers to develop, test and mass produce weapon systems at the same time, lock in the customer into spiralling cost by making hundreds of weapons without mature design, securing for themselves lucrative post manufacturing upgrades for final spec.

    Russian military following more prudent ,less corrupt practice.
    If a weapon system doesn't deliver then they stop to make anything more.
    They don't order weapons without prior deep test and matured design, like Su-57 or T-14 tank.

    At this point as it looks like the CVN-81 will be a Nimitz subclass, not a Ford subclass.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:50 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:So, it is an unmitigated disaster, by high chance the US navy will end up three , Zumwalt like useless carrier, to use it as helicopter / F-35B platforms.

    And the Zumwalt failed BECAUSE they failed to develop the required technology within budget . But the failures are always due to that, if you have infinite amount of money / resources than all problem can be solved.

    Thanks, I was missing this kind of reasoning here. In realm of limitless funding and flexible project timing (like Tesla) - any shit can be improved.



    At this point as it looks like the CVN-81 will be a Nimitz subclass, not a Ford subclass.
    do you think EMALS will be kept?

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:24 am

    Perhaps some on-topic content




    I think we had an earlier reference to the window cutting out in this thread so this one too from same group of pics since it shows that in-progress (not a 22800)

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:28 am

    Apparently part of the deckplan
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:32 am

    1. this is NOT us Navy Forum, but it IS Russian navy forum. I do not give a shit for US navy problems. But I do care about Russian navy problems.

    All navies have problems, focussing on Russian Navy problems and ignoring all other problems is ignorant and leads to the belief that only the Russian navy has problems.

    The purpose of the russian Navy is to deal with NATO and other navies, so there is no point in talking about it like it is in a vacuum.

    Russian carriers, I agree are not US carriers and so do not have to be the same and I assert will not be the same because they will have a much more powerful armament because the Russians don't have a history of relying on aircraft for attack and defence... Russian navy problems are related to NATO because NATO is a Russian Navy problem.

    2. US Navy have enough ships and planes, even If they have just 1/3 of their current strength they would be most powerful navy in world.

    I don't need to be as big and strong or as skillful as Mike Tyson... the right calibre and good trigger control is all I need... there is no need to change my diet and train every day and night for the next 20 years so I can match him in a ring at his own game...

    3. Russian navy does not have enough strength, in last 25 years they managed to produce just several big (3000t+) warships (starting with Neustrashivy). IN 25 years.

    Enough strength for what?

    To defend Russian territory it is already enough. To defend sea lines of communication to potential future trade partners in Africa, asia, and central and south america... no... it certainly needs expansion and improvement... but that is not going to happen overnight, or even in 10 years.

    Stop finding excuses in other countries problem, as those other countries manage to solve them much better then Russia. USA have problems but they still (Unlike Russia) produce ships in more then sufficient numbers and time frames.

    America throws ten times more money at the problem than Russia does and has no issues regarding sanctions or international pressure... but then they also have a whole planet they have to dominate to retain their economy and their position and despite all the money spent and all those impressive big ships they have... they are failing.

    What would Russia do right now with 10 cruisers and 5 CVN?

    I mean really... where would they base them... who will be operating them... who is going to pay for their operational use... or are they going to sit in port and rust?

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    there is no need to change my diet and train every day and night for the next 20 years so I can match him in a ring at his own game...


    dont be winnie.







    Stop finding excuses in other countries problem, as those other countries manage to solve them much better then Russia. USA have problems but they still (Unlike Russia) produce ships in more then sufficient numbers and time frames.  

    America throws ten times more money at the problem than Russia does and has no issues regarding sanctions or international pressure... but then they also have a whole planet they have to dominate to retain their economy and their position and despite all the money spent and all those impressive big ships they have... they are failing.

    What would Russia do right now with 10 cruisers and 5 CVN?

    I mean really... where would they base them... who will be operating them... who is going to pay for their operational use... or are they going to sit in port and rust?



    why do you elaborate your answer for dude who didnt noticed destruction of Soviet Union and 20 years of non investment in anything just pure fight for survival?

    bTW ask him about industrial output of US south in 1866.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:52 am

    Uragan is on the way back to the Baltic via canal. https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F52/

    Edit: arrived back to Pella already so must have left White Sea a while back.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:47 am

    2nd, 3rd & 4th boats against the wall at Pella

    Note they've removed a bunch of stuff from 4th since launch, still lots missing from 3rd.

    With the engine supply issues its been said that at least the 3rd & presumably 4th have launched without engines, some debate on Balancer a while back about how they would get engines in post-launch.
    Other boats with similar engines apparently were setup for easy removal/replacement.
    There is a hatch in the deck between Pantsir-M mount & the rest of the superstructure, that area has tarps covering it on the 2nd boat here, presumably hatch is open.

    1st boat

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