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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:44 pm

    Problems with the production of diesel engines for small rocket ships of the project 22800

    The Tatarstan online newspaper “Real Time” published a material by Louise Ignatieva “Before the first“ Star ”is impossible: will not the“ Karakurt ”sink the state holding of Ivan Yegorov? The operational headquarters of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ordered the Zelenodoltsevs to wait until the “last bullet”, which says that the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky postpones at least a year the delivery of the first two small rocket ships of the Project 22800 Karakurt, which were to be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of this year. The transfer for a long time was due to the disruption of the supply of diesel engines by the St. Petersburg enterprise Zvezda, which put Zelenodolsk shipbuilders in the tail of the line for power plants. The management of the Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation, which is part of the Ak Bars holding, confirmed the “departure for a year”, but stressed that they do not consider the delay critical for the company's financial position. Meanwhile, independent experts are confident that the company suffers obvious damage, at least in the form of lost revenue of 14-15 billion rubles. And if under their construction loans were taken, then the black "Karakurt" can "flood".

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3364835.html

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:58 am

    Some pics of progress at Zaliv https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112711/





    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:57 am

    Oooh, Uragan has arrived at Belomorsk, North end of the White Sea Canal  Shocked
    https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F46/

    There were some pics at Balancer of it in a lock but I failed to recognise the significance


    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:52 am

    2nd boat, presumably should be starting factory tests soon

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  kumbor on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:27 pm

    hoom wrote:2nd boat, presumably should be starting factory tests soon

    Aircraft are being TESTED, ships are running TRIALS. Don`t be ofended, I just like precise terminology!

    Labrador

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Labrador on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:37 pm


    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:04 am

    4th hull is due to launch 23rd Oct https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B021/

    2nd

    3rd

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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:12 am

    "Uragan" Trials








    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:11 am

    Nice!
    I wonder when they'll start putting the soot hiding paint on the hulls? Neutral

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:03 pm

    Preparing for launch

    Mast & Pantsir-M fitted but still missing from the 3rd boat dunno

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  kumbor on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:11 pm

    hoom wrote:Nice!
    I wonder when they'll start putting the soot hiding paint on the hulls? Neutral

    Soviet era ships had sides painted partly black. Side washing is a part of seamanship training everywhere.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:28 am

    Even with the black paint there the soot still needed to be cleaned off...

    They might be running the ships a bit to find the extent of the natural blackening of the hull to determine how much area needs to be painted in black...

    Or they are busy with other things right now... Smile

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:11 am

    Soviet era ships had sides painted partly black.
    Yes and 22800 has basically the same engines -> needs the black paint too.

    They might be running the ships a bit to find the extent of the natural blackening of the hull to determine how much area needs to be painted in black...
    Could be.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:04 am

    Diesel engines for Karakurt not ready yet...

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3387056.html

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:42 am

    Interesting from the comments of that article https://periskop.livejournal.com/1693653.html a tour through Zvezda.
    No pics of actual production but gives a fair bit of an idea of the state of the place.

    Coming from a barely staying alive level of post-soviet work its clear Zvezda was not able to easily ramp up production to the level needed.
    Question is the extent to which the failure to ramp up is from embezzlement, Management made excessively optimistic promises & Military/Govt believed them despite the obvious poor state of the plant or just they haven't been able to find enough appropriately skilled staff.
    Probably some mix.
    There is also the distraction of simultaneously building & manning a brand new gearbox manufacturing plant.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:09 pm

    They should let Saturn make all diesel engines for Russian navy from Karakurt to Super Gorshkov. If they can do it faster and better than Zvezda, then this should be the end of discussion. Capitallism is in Russia too now.

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  kumbor on Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:54 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:They should let Saturn make all diesel engines for Russian navy from Karakurt to Super Gorshkov. If they can do it faster and better than Zvezda, then this should be the end of discussion. Capitallism is in Russia too now.

    Sorry, but this is impossible by definition. Different engines need different technologies. Only MTU as worldwide company has technical possibilities to do it. And even MTU produces only high speed diesels, while medium and slow speed diesels are made by M.A.N/B&W and M.A.N./Pielstick. Not to mention Sulzer, Mitsui, Waertsila etc. Karakurt MRKs need specific, light, high speed diesels. Gorshkov frigate need different type of engines. 16D49 is 3x heavier than m507 and it is 2x slower revving.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:15 pm

    [quote="kumbor"]
    verkhoturye51 wrote:Sorry, but this is impossible by definition.

    Sorry, but you provided no argument why Zvezda will do it. Practice shows few reasons for optimism. Saturn should try to develop the technology if Zvezda can't.
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:39 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    kumbor wrote:
    verkhoturye51 wrote:Sorry, but this is impossible by definition.

    Sorry, but you provided no argument why Zvezda will do it. Practice shows few reasons for optimism. Saturn should try to develop the technology if Zvezda can't.

    Otherwise they will have to wait until Nikolaev (and.so Zorya) will be again in Russia....
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:03 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Otherwise they will have to wait until Nikolaev (and.so Zorya) will be again in Russia....

    Yes, that is a possibility. In the meantime, Saturn seems well equiped to do the job.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 am

    Flotprom talked to some of the Zvezda staff outside https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%97%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B04/
    Seems to confirm staff issues: mainly old ppl who should be retired & fresh out of school younguns.
    Apparently older staff pretty pessimistic but the youth are optimistic that things are getting better.
    Sounds like they've been having quality issues delaying things.

    Yes, that is a possibility. In the meantime, Saturn seems well equiped to do the job.
    Saturn can't even make gearboxes, what makes you think they could suddenly churn out high-performance marine diesels?
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:08 am

    Saturn can't even make gearboxes, what makes you think they could suddenly churn out high-performance marine diesels?

    Just the fact that they have them in serial production for Gorshkov class. Even if they start the development of new smaller engine from scratch, it may take less time than waiting for Zvezda.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:04 am

    22350 has Kolomna 10D49 diesels http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/en/catalog/detail.php?ID=2131
    Saturn just makes gas turbines.
    Zvezda is making the gearboxes in its new gearbox factory.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:14 am

    4. Karakurt



    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:57 pm

    Launched

    Bottle smash failure Shocked

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5707634
    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20181023/1531267420.html



    https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B022/






    Also a report on White Sea tests of Uragan https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B024/
    Tests on the White Sea of ​​the head small rocket ship of the project 22800 (code "Karakurt") "Hurricane" confirmed the nautical qualities and the inherent technical solutions.
    According to Mikhail Krasnopeyev, the Uragan, which arrived in Belomorsk in early October for state tests, was successfully shot out of Caliber cruise missiles at a coastal and sea target in the White Sea.
    "Passed nautical tests, applied weapons in the swell over three points. Has developed a speed of more than 30 knots," added Mikhail Krasnopeev.


    And about the engines https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0382/
    Stabilization of the situation with the supply of engines for small rocket ships of the project 22800 "Karakurt" is expected in 2021-2022. This was announced on Tuesday, October 23, by the deputy head of the shipbuilding department of the Russian Navy, Captain I rank, Mikhail Krasnopeyev , during the launching ceremony of the Buryat MRC at the Leningrad Shipyard Pella.

    “There is a problem, we are solving it,” Mikhail Krasnopeyev acknowledged, answering a question about the disruption of the deliveries of M507 diesel engines manufactured by PJSC Zvezda. "engines for" Karakurtov "will build Kingisepp Machinery."

    Apparently this 4th ship is launched without engines https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B023/
    Factory running tests of the small rocket ship "The Tempest" of Project 22800 (code "Karakurt") will begin in the second half of 2019.

    The Tempest is the fourth IRC of project 22800, built at the Pella plant. The transfer of the ship to the Baltic Fleet is scheduled for 2020. However, the timing depends, among other things, on the timeliness of the delivery of M507 diesel engines manufactured by PJSC Zvezda.
    There has been suggestion at Balancer that 3rd boat launched without engines too, its certainly floating significantly higher than the others in the pics against the wall at Pella.

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