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Log inUragan is starting State Tests https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B017/
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71 posters
Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
George1- Posts : 18303
Points : 18800
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Problems with the production of diesel engines for small rocket ships of the project 22800
The Tatarstan online newspaper “Real Time” published a material by Louise Ignatieva “Before the first“ Star ”is impossible: will not the“ Karakurt ”sink the state holding of Ivan Yegorov? The operational headquarters of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ordered the Zelenodoltsevs to wait until the “last bullet”, which says that the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky postpones at least a year the delivery of the first two small rocket ships of the Project 22800 Karakurt, which were to be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of this year. The transfer for a long time was due to the disruption of the supply of diesel engines by the St. Petersburg enterprise Zvezda, which put Zelenodolsk shipbuilders in the tail of the line for power plants. The management of the Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation, which is part of the Ak Bars holding, confirmed the “departure for a year”, but stressed that they do not consider the delay critical for the company's financial position. Meanwhile, independent experts are confident that the company suffers obvious damage, at least in the form of lost revenue of 14-15 billion rubles. And if under their construction loans were taken, then the black "Karakurt" can "flood".
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3364835.html
The Tatarstan online newspaper “Real Time” published a material by Louise Ignatieva “Before the first“ Star ”is impossible: will not the“ Karakurt ”sink the state holding of Ivan Yegorov? The operational headquarters of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ordered the Zelenodoltsevs to wait until the “last bullet”, which says that the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M. Gorky postpones at least a year the delivery of the first two small rocket ships of the Project 22800 Karakurt, which were to be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of this year. The transfer for a long time was due to the disruption of the supply of diesel engines by the St. Petersburg enterprise Zvezda, which put Zelenodolsk shipbuilders in the tail of the line for power plants. The management of the Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation, which is part of the Ak Bars holding, confirmed the “departure for a year”, but stressed that they do not consider the delay critical for the company's financial position. Meanwhile, independent experts are confident that the company suffers obvious damage, at least in the form of lost revenue of 14-15 billion rubles. And if under their construction loans were taken, then the black "Karakurt" can "flood".
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3364835.html
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Some pics of progress at Zaliv https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112711/
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Oooh, Uragan has arrived at Belomorsk, North end of the White Sea Canal 
https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F46/
There were some pics at Balancer of it in a lock but I failed to recognise the significance
https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F46/
There were some pics at Balancer of it in a lock but I failed to recognise the significance
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
2nd boat, presumably should be starting factory tests soon
kumbor- Posts : 312
Points : 304
Join date : 2017-06-09
hoom wrote:2nd boat, presumably should be starting factory tests soon
Aircraft are being TESTED, ships are running TRIALS. Don`t be ofended, I just like precise terminology!
Labrador- Posts : 129
Points : 129
Join date : 2018-09-24
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
4th hull is due to launch 23rd Oct https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B021/
2nd
3rd
2nd
3rd
George1- Posts : 18303
Points : 18800
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
"Uragan" Trials
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Nice!
I wonder when they'll start putting the soot hiding paint on the hulls?
I wonder when they'll start putting the soot hiding paint on the hulls?
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Preparing for launch
Mast & Pantsir-M fitted but still missing from the 3rd boat
Mast & Pantsir-M fitted but still missing from the 3rd boat
kumbor- Posts : 312
Points : 304
Join date : 2017-06-09
hoom wrote:Nice!
I wonder when they'll start putting the soot hiding paint on the hulls?
Soviet era ships had sides painted partly black. Side washing is a part of seamanship training everywhere.
GarryB- Posts : 38916
Points : 39412
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Even with the black paint there the soot still needed to be cleaned off...
They might be running the ships a bit to find the extent of the natural blackening of the hull to determine how much area needs to be painted in black...
Or they are busy with other things right now...
They might be running the ships a bit to find the extent of the natural blackening of the hull to determine how much area needs to be painted in black...
Or they are busy with other things right now...
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Yes and 22800 has basically the same engines -> needs the black paint too.Soviet era ships had sides painted partly black.
Could be.They might be running the ships a bit to find the extent of the natural blackening of the hull to determine how much area needs to be painted in black...
George1- Posts : 18303
Points : 18800
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Diesel engines for Karakurt not ready yet...
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3387056.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3387056.html
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Interesting from the comments of that article https://periskop.livejournal.com/1693653.html a tour through Zvezda.
No pics of actual production but gives a fair bit of an idea of the state of the place.
Coming from a barely staying alive level of post-soviet work its clear Zvezda was not able to easily ramp up production to the level needed.
Question is the extent to which the failure to ramp up is from embezzlement, Management made excessively optimistic promises & Military/Govt believed them despite the obvious poor state of the plant or just they haven't been able to find enough appropriately skilled staff.
Probably some mix.
There is also the distraction of simultaneously building & manning a brand new gearbox manufacturing plant.
No pics of actual production but gives a fair bit of an idea of the state of the place.
Coming from a barely staying alive level of post-soviet work its clear Zvezda was not able to easily ramp up production to the level needed.
Question is the extent to which the failure to ramp up is from embezzlement, Management made excessively optimistic promises & Military/Govt believed them despite the obvious poor state of the plant or just they haven't been able to find enough appropriately skilled staff.
Probably some mix.
There is also the distraction of simultaneously building & manning a brand new gearbox manufacturing plant.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
Points : 430
Join date : 2018-03-02
They should let Saturn make all diesel engines for Russian navy from Karakurt to Super Gorshkov. If they can do it faster and better than Zvezda, then this should be the end of discussion. Capitallism is in Russia too now.
kumbor- Posts : 312
Points : 304
Join date : 2017-06-09
verkhoturye51 wrote:They should let Saturn make all diesel engines for Russian navy from Karakurt to Super Gorshkov. If they can do it faster and better than Zvezda, then this should be the end of discussion. Capitallism is in Russia too now.
Sorry, but this is impossible by definition. Different engines need different technologies. Only MTU as worldwide company has technical possibilities to do it. And even MTU produces only high speed diesels, while medium and slow speed diesels are made by M.A.N/B&W and M.A.N./Pielstick. Not to mention Sulzer, Mitsui, Waertsila etc. Karakurt MRKs need specific, light, high speed diesels. Gorshkov frigate need different type of engines. 16D49 is 3x heavier than m507 and it is 2x slower revving.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
Points : 430
Join date : 2018-03-02
[quote="kumbor"]
Sorry, but you provided no argument why Zvezda will do it. Practice shows few reasons for optimism. Saturn should try to develop the technology if Zvezda can't.
verkhoturye51 wrote:Sorry, but this is impossible by definition.
Sorry, but you provided no argument why Zvezda will do it. Practice shows few reasons for optimism. Saturn should try to develop the technology if Zvezda can't.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2407
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- Post n°545
Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship
Rodion_Romanovic Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:39 pm
verkhoturye51 wrote:kumbor wrote:verkhoturye51 wrote:Sorry, but this is impossible by definition.
Sorry, but you provided no argument why Zvezda will do it. Practice shows few reasons for optimism. Saturn should try to develop the technology if Zvezda can't.
Otherwise they will have to wait until Nikolaev (and.so Zorya) will be again in Russia....
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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Join date : 2018-03-02
Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Otherwise they will have to wait until Nikolaev (and.so Zorya) will be again in Russia....
Yes, that is a possibility. In the meantime, Saturn seems well equiped to do the job.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Join date : 2016-05-06
Flotprom talked to some of the Zvezda staff outside https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%97%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B04/
Seems to confirm staff issues: mainly old ppl who should be retired & fresh out of school younguns.
Apparently older staff pretty pessimistic but the youth are optimistic that things are getting better.
Sounds like they've been having quality issues delaying things.
Seems to confirm staff issues: mainly old ppl who should be retired & fresh out of school younguns.
Apparently older staff pretty pessimistic but the youth are optimistic that things are getting better.
Sounds like they've been having quality issues delaying things.
Saturn can't even make gearboxes, what makes you think they could suddenly churn out high-performance marine diesels?Yes, that is a possibility. In the meantime, Saturn seems well equiped to do the job.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
Points : 430
Join date : 2018-03-02
Saturn can't even make gearboxes, what makes you think they could suddenly churn out high-performance marine diesels?
Just the fact that they have them in serial production for Gorshkov class. Even if they start the development of new smaller engine from scratch, it may take less time than waiting for Zvezda.
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
22350 has Kolomna 10D49 diesels http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/en/catalog/detail.php?ID=2131
Saturn just makes gas turbines.
Zvezda is making the gearboxes in its new gearbox factory.
Saturn just makes gas turbines.
Zvezda is making the gearboxes in its new gearbox factory.
Hole- Posts : 10665
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Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 47
Location : Scholzistan
4. Karakurt
