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    Russian Liberal Opposition

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:28 pm

    What has democracy to do with choice? Republican or Democrat... or a wasted vote on Ross Periot... yeah that is democracy...

    Personally I see a lot of myself in TR-1... I defend the underdog... on US Strong websites I spend a lot of time defending Russian equipment and technology and simply Russians as being real people rather than their one dimensional stereotypes... and I get called commie and Russia lover and why don't I live there and all that crap.

    On pro Russian forums I often find myself defending US equipment as not being all marketing hype and BS.

    What I don't understand is TR-1s pathological hatred for Putin, and his eternal pessimism...

    Fine... you don't like Putin... please name names of people who can fix russia and make it all perfect... because from where I am sitting Putin would not be so hated in the west if he wasn't doing such a good job of turning Russia around. Sure it has plenty of resources, but many in his position could have been lured by the west into selling out Russia to the big western companies just waiting to strip Russia of everything it has of worth.

    If you haven't paying attention Garry, that is what i did the past 2 years trying to ask this guy what his problem is with Putin and who else there is that would do a better job in his favor?

    He never answered that just the casual and common peasant ractions "PUTIN EVIL CRIMINAL THIEF" no specifics, to where and it what manner or who will be doing better.

    TR1 is not a critic, yapping without a specific example of what is been done wrong and find solutions is not criticism it is peasantry.

    It is a simple fact russia and Putin has no Oppossition. Someone who is paid to be the Oppossition is not the oppossition. An Oppossition is described as a counter party that is trying to change politics to the better. Nemzov was never going to do anything better but do the same as Yeltzin did, sell russia out and insert the micropenis of US.

    The only one that would come even close to an oppossition is PVO party with Starikow, but he is a supporter of Putin, but he is also the only one that has ever addressed this issue, when Putin is gone who will be the next one. So he is working with his party PVO to that to be in future a party that protects Russia that is why the party acronym is PVO like the which is Anti Air Defense, to protect russia from western bombardment.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:05 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    The current leadership should step down in the near future, even for the sake of "change". As I told you Russia isn't monolithical, but the revolving door issue is real. That door is stuck. Now yes, it isn't in times like these that people should ask for more Majdanoz.

    That not only a damn from guilable people that believe the people are the problem rather than the system. It will not change a thing especially with such retarded demands "Step down let someone else do it"

    Politics is not some random game, it does not matter if you believe in democracy or not, politics is a very delicate thing and you can not just install one stupid cunt after another. How did this "Step down Yanukowich" worked out for the ukropians? Fact is anyone that demands a change in leadership without knowing who will be next or having solutions for it is not someone who understands politics, sorry to break it for you that is not how you handle problems by just changing leadership which play all the same game or whore themselfs to the enemy US.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The issues won't go away with the CBR being enslaved to the Russian State. The Forex milking had only partly to do with it. The capital flight, the fact that Russia has up to 5 billions on "private" customs declaration from the US, the fact that there is a tie down with oil will not be countered by the CBR being state controlled. The monetary aspect of it can't trup the fiscal policies of Russia and the general lawlessness when it comes to taxation. We all know of the ghost debts some of teh bigger Russian companies accumulate.

    I did not say that CBR is solution to everything i said it is ONE of the two fronts where you are absolutley univetable to federalize if you want to deal with corruption problem. You can't just expect to deal with illegal prostitution by jailing prostitutes but let the Pimp run freely around. I think you are underestimating the role of CBR overthe years and especially under this sanction war they were one of big reasons for milking the forex stock out. You can't fight on a single front, because they will just keep replacing their little lobbyists and oligarchs, you need to fight on all front otherwise they overwhelm you.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Again you don't cool down Forex milking with the CBR alone. You do it by publically tackling the sharking. People were shorting the RUB at 45 vs USD and caused a direct panic. The fact that the CBR allowed idiotic loans to Russian Big Biz would have indeed been a fact sooner or later, with or without RF control on the CBR. A perfect cynical would say that at least that money went to Russian Big Biz and thus some money will go back to the Russian budget.

    You might do not like it but what we need is a Stalin Purge in an economical way, seize all private money from the whores that are working against russia, who are the speculators, who are the panic makers, who are the lobbyists from private companies from abroad and CBR and government. You don't like such measurements but you will NEVER deal with a problem by doing it one by one, with getting one shark out of the system they already have infiltrated with two more. Play by their rules and you lose always.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Agreed, but you can criticize. Critics are easy, I agree as well.

    That is what you have demanded that the current leadership should step down... ok in our little hypothetical russia, Putin and his personal (direct and indirect) advicers and his appointed officials have stepped down. What now? Who will do the job? Who will the person be a pro russian or one of the various coup de etat 5th columnists the West has instructed, which go in and out of the US embassy? This is not a rhetoric question, you are making critics and i demand from you now solutions to your created problem!




    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    That is however something different. This "lowering" of standarts is a fact. It's called the appeal of the dominant culture. People will do as what they see being the dominant culture. You simply can't beat the US as it is now. US filmmaking has always been massive garbage. Production values were always low, with moral clichés. The very few challenging movies for instance have been even worse.

    IT is something different but it is the same, it is a controlled process of westernization that is LOBBIED, that is not a normal process it is a forced one an artificial created one.
    You do understand that this are all artificial created systems and not some random natural process? The top 100 music charts across europe and norht america along with lot of asian countries what kind of music is played? Pop or Hip Hop, this charts are controlled, to constantly keep the music in this charts which are purposed to change culture. Most youngsters do not even know anything about music, they haven't heared about anything else but what they push into the charts and play all day long same garbage in radio without alternatives.

    Music industry is not the only measurement that is controlled in that manner. It is not a dominant nor a culture it is just unchallanged and lobbied westernization and that is a problem when not keeping up with providing alternatives you und up with one pool of western garbage that is poisoning russia like rest of europe with murican "values" which they never use to apply but somehow even in dispicable movies they manage to make muricans the good guys.

    People are growing tired of this westernization, there are lot of hollywood movies but lot of them are garbage constant warmongering and fearmongering against, russians, chinese, muslims and latins, socialists, communists and whatever. There needs to be a regulation commitee that is supervisioned and has regulations, not let in garbage hollywood productions that are trying to create a perception of muslims beeing terrorists that just try to go across all globe and blow up everyone, because reality is it is the US who does it and we need movies about exactly that, no propaganda just showing the endless list of examples where the US is warmongering, with that you would completle serve the entire genre of military action movies then you can let in hollywood productions that are not spreading stupidity and fearmongering towards people, let in stuff like Game of Thrones, quite violent so you need enough valuebale educational or at least close cultural  domestic production.

    Russia has a corrupt system in its Ministery of Culture, which gives state budget to HOLLYWOOD regisseurs to produce garbage to lower IQ of russian population. That has to be changed and Install an alternative to Hollywood, russia will not be able to deal in the same scale but it has enough basis and enough people around the globe that would prefer a different mindset. Most asians prefer bollywood over hollywood, since it is cultural much closer to their values and not a barbarian mindset without any culture to base upon like Hollywood. By creating slavywood russia can not only try to keep its people and people abroad slavs and other people closer to it, it can reinforce people to think about their heritage and their roots but it also serves a softpower which the US is master in, but over the years it just gets more bolt and blatant and some people are awaking from this murican nightmare.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Even at the height of US Power Politics crisis. Take "No Way Out" of Donaldson (1987). The movie starts as a very good thriller, that ends up in full paranoia mode. That is called education.

    That has to be countered, russia currently sucks at softpowre because it does not commit to it.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Now see 9th Company from Bondarchuk. That's called "factual". Nevermind is blows and gives a totally twisted idea of the Afghan experience (already a fvcking nightmare).

    That is the problem, there needs to be a better regulation and an organized film industry which we do not have only the US has one, because the muricans have understood that subversion of the mind is the strongest weapon not brute force, that is the only reason why this mofos can committ genocide after genocide, invade countries for their resources, install dictatorships, create terrorist groups and send them to destablize countries and still westernized and therefore lobotomized population think off them as the good guys.

    That has to be countered this pink-glasses view towards everything the US is doing, create an alternative with movies that are showing the truth about all thos wars. I know those movies would never reach western countries but at least you can keep the balance between western Murica F*** Yeah Propaganda and the actual reality who those Muricans actually are when invading the country, not for freedom or democracy but showing their actual intentions and motivations.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    This is something Russia can't compete with. Even back at the Soviet days. Americans can afford to be ruthless motherf****** since they can shape whatever crisis at their advantage. Who remembers that from 150K to 300K (conservative estimates) were killed in a 8 year war and occupation that was illegal from day 1? Bar the Iraqis? No one. It's gone. You'll have the whole "wounded warriors", the families of the KIA and then what?

    Russia will never reach that scale unless it commits to it and currently US ecnomy is falling and that is invetibale process, russia just needs to slow down the propaganda of the west which is growing stronger in eastern countries and central,south america and Asia. There softpower and propaganda is pretty strong, there is no other way to say it, there are retarded people being lobotomized by US Propaganda despite being Iraqi, Vietnamese, Korean, German or Japanese, those countries have been through genocide by the west with usage of WMD's like nukes, sarin, agent orange,blue and white phosphorous bombardment of villages, same as direct execution of POW's since they were "incivilized barbarians".

    We just need an alternative, subtle and at the same time not to off-topic, show the world who the occupator is who the enemy is.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    We are reminded 24/7 that Rasha is an agressor in Ukraine. Again the power of propaganda. You simply can't beat it. You can educate yourself as much as you want. You'll end up in world that will be incompatible with your POV.

    This narrative does not work that good thanks to Russia Today, just one single newsnetwork for english speaking channel managed to crumble the well established monopoly of western propaganda with Fox, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, BBC and co. They have even declared RT as a threat to US national security and of course it is, as soon people are awakend from this murican dream they realize the reality is more a nightmare than a good dream. What were the measures by US after RT broke their monopoly? They established and created new more subtle newsnetworks which are subtle and at the same time blatant lies like Vice News with the russophobe Simon. I have to admit in comperision with the MSM of Fox, CNN, BBC and co it is a fucking genius propaganda, the problem here it works still to well and it is not aimed at general public but at younger generations meaning they already breed today new generations of imbeciles since Fox, CNN,BBC did not manage to reach the younger generations anymore. The problem is to counter exactly this.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    However the 5th C isn't a problem when 9 out 10 films your kid sees are Hollywood bullshit. When the brands he wants to wear are US based. When for his birthday he wants Micky Dee partaaaay. When he wants a car for having his Law degree. There is a way of shaping out the generations that we can't oppose to.

    It's simple, and that's nothing you can do about it. Really.

    If you don't provide alternatives than you are running in westernization and that has to be countered at any cost.

    Regulation of what garbage is shown and right out ban garbage that is subverssive, we know the US will demonize russia anyway so you can do what the fuck is necessary. You will never counter problems when you don't provide alternatives for the domestic and close boardering and partners. The Soviet Union was the peak of human history in education and environment for people to study what field ever. This has to retearn a bastion of education and scientific progress not a bastion of lobotomized people that are becoming degenerated.




    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The issue is that you'll run to the same problems most arab economies faced in the 60's and 70's from their own dutch diseases. See most Joint ventures in Russia sell current or former generation items pimped up. The best case is the Lada Vesta, which is the Cheap Renault QP platfrom which it shares with Dacia and former Megane. The car looks brand new, the technology behind it isn't. So that's the issue with Russia, it can't even afford to go the Koren Route, since Korea was in a FFA race to export with capital flowing to Asia. Capital will never go to Russia for the simple fact it is a sovereign country. The State of Russia needs to create its own brands, its own markets and its own niches.

    That could work IF the mood towards Russia was neutral at least. It doesn't because Europoors want cash and Europaranoids would rather whore themselves to Ze Germanz instead of trying to have a profitable relationship with Russia. This is a fact again. So Russia can't pull a China without being Flagged. See Gazprom. See the Russian attempted aquisitions, Sport clubs, Real Estate, low volume companies? OK. But there's hell to pay for Russians to buy shares into "strategic companies", banks or even any big asset out there.

    IT's a fact there is no free market, when big bad Rasha is concerned. So effectively you simply CAN'T try and diversify in the classical sense. Plus corruption and sclerosed state policies.

    But all this isn't as bad. It's just the way it is.

    The solution is ofcourse not making an Apple product with fancy design but garbage in the inside. Russia just lacks the ideology it needs. That is the problem here, it needs an ideology and not some communist or murican hegemony dream, just an ideology of progress and being again the peak of education and science in the world. Russia is just floating around with no ideology where peoples minds are affected by softpower from the west to get more lazy and dumber every day so russia needs to emphasize field of education and scientific progress for its own well and everyones well.

    Europoors are not following Germany, because it is a slave nation, occupied by US and UK and without a basic law, no constitution and a sterilized population, no one is proud of being german, people are getting indoctrinated into guilt for WW2, in schools they do not teach anything else but german guilt like the history of germany is not older than 1939 and nothing else is teached except this things, WW2,WW1 germans guilt and USA won D-Day and WW2 and the american history. Germany is just an administrative of US.

    The problem is when you don't even attempt to counter this propaganda and narrative that the West is pulling out against russia and every other country that is not ass-licking US or Israel than you will of course not be able to do jack shit, but russia has started to counter that narrative it is called RT and by the first attempt they broke the MSM monopoly, while China tried it and failed with same as PressTV of Iran, which are banned btw. The problem here remains that russia is horrible at propaganda and RT works only because they are not making propaganda they just list all the examples of Western hypocrisy towards politics like John Kerry's "One country does not invade another on false pretext". Russia needs to provide all softpower an alternative narrative.

    It already offers or attempts to offer an alternative to the Western controlled and closed market with BRICS. Russia has the progress it needs and that is due to putin and his advicers, it is a slow process but there is one with visible progress.
    [/quote][/quote]

    Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

    1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

    2. I'm 56, this isn't my time. I've been there done what even was possible. I've seen it happen, people dragged on the streets, made to kneel in front of the fvcking US embassy and humiliated. USA, USA, USA. One of the most hideous moments of the Ukraine Crisis was looking dumbfuck UA colonel Oleh Mamchur parading with Soviet Flag and his idiots screaming Amerika S'Nami. You might excuse me if I'm not into action figures anymore.

    3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

    4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

    5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

    6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

    All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.


    Side note:

    -On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
    What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:17 pm

    The attacks on Putin are a standard propaganda ploy. Demonize the leader with a hail of lies and then try to
    stage a coup or invade. What the Russian public wants is not a consideration for the west and for its little
    goose stepping drones like TR1. The anti-Russian propaganda has some features which are of interest:

    1) The constant harping about corruption and Putin being a thief at the head of a bunch of kleptocrats.
    This is a clear attempt to confuse the Russian public and such tricks work. Get enough parrots to repeat
    the same line over and over and people absorb it as the default state. It is following the propaganda
    recipe of Goebbels. It is funny how during the 1990s, and I recall this clearly, the subject of corruption
    in Russia and the fact that Yeltsin's regime was a kleptocracy was simply not important for the west
    and was not a trope repeated daily ad nauseam. Yet when things in Russia started to seriously
    improve after Putin took over all of the sudden the NATO media and assorted propaganda operations like
    "Transparency International" discovered corruption in Russia. From the NATO media coverage you would
    think that the 1990s were not the gangster paradise period in Russia when gangland murders were rampant
    and that all the problems happened under Putin.


    2) Russia is an aggressor which is invading Ukraine and Georgia. Democracy loving countries trying to
    defend their rights. This grotesque lie is aimed both at Russians and at the lemmings that inhabit the west.
    You will note that the west was all about support for the KLA and Kosovo's right to secede. The issue
    of territorial integrity of Serbia was not even discussed. The International Court of Justice at the Hague
    ruled that the right to self-determination trumps territorial integrity. Yet we have South Ossetians and
    Donbas Russians denied any rights by NATO. And NATO fully supported and supports military campaigns
    to suppress these people including through war criminal tactics such as indiscriminate shelling and MLRS
    attacks, which BTW happened in South Ossetia when Suckshitvilli the tie eater launched a sneak midnight
    attack on Tskhinval after going on TV the previous evening and promising peace. The NATO-installed
    Kiev regime is also using these war criminal tactics and has been randomly shelling basically every population
    point in the Donbas that is within range. There is no condemnation of this from NATO whatsoever and it
    is clear that this is a tactic approved by the NATO handlers of both Poroshenko today and Suckshitvilli in 2008.
    But Russia is supposed to be the aggressor.


    NATO obviously has zero credibility when it comes to criticism of Russia. All the hate it spreads is a tool to
    further its imperial agenda. The analysis I posted in the other thread about the attack on Gazprom by the
    EU highlights the bitter, petty hate that NATO maggots have for Russia and Putin specifically because he
    denied them the chance to colonize Russia and run it like a banana republic. When Putin started to get
    rid of the illegal deals created under the Yeltsin regime that "gave away" Russian resources to western corporations
    (Russian resources cannot be sold, only the rights to extract them can be sold, but Yeltsin being a good
    comprador thought otherwise) the coverage of Russian in the NATO media filled with bile and hate.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:45 pm

    kvs wrote:The attacks on Putin are a standard propaganda ploy.  Demonize the leader with a hail of lies and then try to
    stage a coup or invade.   What the Russian public wants is not a consideration for the west and for its little
    goose stepping drones like TR1.   The anti-Russian propaganda has some features which are of interest:

    1) The constant harping about corruption and Putin being a thief at the head of a bunch of kleptocrats.
    This is a clear attempt to confuse the Russian public and such tricks work.  Get enough parrots to repeat
    the same line over and over and people absorb it as the default state.   It is following the propaganda
    recipe of Goebbels.  It is funny how during the 1990s, and I recall this clearly, the subject of corruption
    in Russia and the fact that Yeltsin's regime was a kleptocracy was simply not important for the west
    and was not a trope repeated daily ad nauseam.  Yet when things in Russia started to seriously
    improve after Putin took over all of the sudden the NATO media and assorted propaganda operations like
    "Transparency International" discovered corruption in Russia.   From the NATO media coverage you would
    think that the 1990s were not the gangster paradise period in Russia when gangland murders were rampant
    and that all the problems happened under Putin.


    2) Russia is an aggressor which is invading Ukraine and Georgia.  Democracy loving countries trying to
    defend their rights.   This grotesque lie is aimed both at Russians and at the lemmings that inhabit the west.
    You will note that the west was all about support for the KLA and Kosovo's right to secede.   The issue
    of territorial integrity of Serbia was not even discussed.   The International Court of Justice at the Hague
    ruled that the right to self-determination trumps territorial integrity.   Yet we have South Ossetians and
    Donbas Russians denied any rights by NATO.   And NATO fully supported and supports military campaigns
    to suppress these people including through war criminal tactics such as indiscriminate shelling and MLRS
    attacks, which BTW happened in South Ossetia when Suckshitvilli the tie eater launched a sneak midnight
    attack on Tskhinval after going on TV the previous evening and promising peace.   The NATO-installed
    Kiev regime is also using these war criminal tactics and has been randomly shelling basically every population
    point in the Donbas that is within range.   There is no condemnation of this from NATO whatsoever and it
    is clear that this is a tactic approved by the NATO handlers of both Poroshenko today and Suckshitvilli in 2008.
    But Russia is supposed to be the aggressor.    


    NATO obviously has zero credibility when it comes to criticism of Russia.  All the hate it spreads is a tool to
    further its imperial agenda.   The analysis I posted in the other thread about the attack on Gazprom by the
    EU highlights the bitter, petty hate that NATO maggots have for Russia and Putin specifically because he
    denied them the chance to colonize Russia and run it like a banana republic.    When Putin started to get
    rid of the illegal deals created under the Yeltsin regime that "gave away" Russian resources to western corporations
    (Russian resources cannot be sold, only the rights to extract them can be sold, but Yeltsin being a good
    comprador thought otherwise) the coverage of Russian in the NATO media filled with bile and hate.  

    Which is what I wrote. As long as Russia will have a sovereign, no fvcks given policy, this will be on the Menu. Gomosex B-Verbotten in MOrdor. Call Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:53 pm

    Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

    1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

    Than don't demand things you are not in position to demand in the first place. You are no russian, you have no plan who should replace the current leadership than why demanding the current leadership in russia to step down? Such a thing would only do two kinds of people naive fools or people who benefit from a weak russia.


    3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

    People want order to all cost is the product of the controlled MSM that constantly spreads fear that we fucking europeans are somehow in jeopardy from some religious fanatics the US and its puppets have financed themselfs or that somehow Iran or North Korea is a threat to the world next to russia while their record speaks otherwise. You have to counter the fearmongering from Western controlled MSM.

    There is alot to do to counter US bullshit and currently Russia is doing it. People who say there is nothing that can be done either have a very low education on that political field or are just right out missplaced to talk about politics at all. I already have shown you several things that can be done but you stick to the bullshit that the USA is 2012 and will finish us all, the US is already finished its fall is inevitable.

    When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do.

    That is the problem under Soviet Union there was an ideology for progress and education, there were many kids going to schools and actually enjoying it, today it is the oppossite. What problem i have with people like you is your mindset. You are thinking out of personal, short term and not collective long term point of view. If you want to change this that the kids today value time wasting garbage with unimportant time consumers rather than thinking about future, than there is little you can do alone but there is alot you can do from a political point of view. You have to restablish what i constantly say, the passion and ideology for education and science. There are many professions today seen as some dead end job without honor while in Soviet times being a teacher was one hell of prestige job, being responsible for the education of the next generations and building own future. Today it is the opposite, we have incompetent teachers that just are teachers because it is a safe job which can't be fired from unless you committ murder or rape the kids, but being a bad teacher you will not lose your job or being even partially racist will not be a reason to fire you at least that is how it is here in germany and in some other western countries.

    4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

    If you see RT as an useless tool to balance the monopoly of narrative the west brings than you clearly have no idea how politics works. Softpower is the king of war and peace. If you think RT is bad than you clearly have no buisness in geopolitics. The content is not the same, RT is not spreading fear and warmongering rhetorics to demonize countries or to coverup stories to invade other countries. It is surely not what i would want to have as the standard for News and Journalism, but you are a fool if you believe Media can be free. The actual free media are people that do it as a hobby and have only a couple of hunred views or maybe thousands views and have no income. This are comercialized media for the purpose of representing a narrative and that is important if you like it or not, but RT is doing a great job of countering the propaganda and it indeed has broke the total Monopoly of western controlled MSM where western people seek now alternative news. You can call RT whatever you want but it is an important and good step of breaking this "Ruzzian evil" garbage.


    5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

    Everyone that use wrong examples and does not see the politics behind it is someone that does not understand geopolitics. It is not germany, germany is a Proxy embassy of the US. The EU is an US construct with Germany next to Brussel as the administrative which is directed and supervisioned by Washington. Don't even believe for a moment that Germany is some souvereign state doing it all out of own interest, it is not. No politician in germany has severed the last 70 years for german interests but Washingtons. People should realize that, because this Devide at impera is working exactly in this manner, using Germany as the evil power over the countries that have been defaulted via IMF and US to canalize the hatred against each other rather where the hatred should go towards Washington.


    6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

    All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.


    Yes, you are right that they all want to serve their own interest, but they won't be able without BRICS, because the western market is a closed one for US asslickers only, meaning they are doing it out of own interest on a mutual basis, if they like it or not. That gives at least some freedom for economical shift and not relying on an evil controlled market which the West abuses and uses against countries that are not licking their bum.

    There is not basis to have any relationsship with USA at all, it is an evil empire that is playing european and all other countries around the globe against each other for the US gain. Russia needs to counter the russophobic views created by US in europe to have their good relationships. The problem for Russia are only from Germany and the countries in between. They need to counter the russophobia in Poland, the failed states of baltics, romania, bulgaria, czech and ukraine other than that Russia does not need to get more narrative spreading across europe at all. Germany is a crucial and vital part for good relationships with entire europe that is why US does everything to undermine russian and german relationships.


    Side note:

    -On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
    What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

    There is a change needed but from own experience privatization and bureaucracy it is definitley not the way to go. Corruption here in germany is the 2nd most corrupt country on this planet after US and we are the most bureacratic country. The corruption is just legalized and canalized more or less making corruption a legal thing by loopholes everywhere, hard for small buisness but a dreamland for big buisnesses to be corrupt. You have no idea how the big gap between the corruption in russia and in Germany is. Germany beats the shit out of russia in corruption. It is just freaking subtile empowered by laws and loopholes in laws and the population is knowing it but they don't see the extent of it. Believing that a PRIVATE bank will respond in favor of a country is just lying to yourself. Private banks are only interested in private income and currently the constitution overrules the treaty obligations the CBR has to take control and stability of the Ruble, it was one of the major factors of burning the forex money.

    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    That is exactly what you demand, putin to step down, he is in his third period. Demanding such a thing is retarded. Question who do you want to see next? I want a name a party?

    That is the problem people are only scratching on the surface to politics but are the first to demand things without understanding the consequences. You can not change the system just by replacing people who are currently working for CHANGEMENT. The next people that will be leading we don't know them yet, there is no one on the horizont that would do even a 100th percentage of what Putin did. Demanding change without solution is retarded, get more involved in inner politics and geopolitics before demanding.

    That is how bloody revolutions come, people yelling for Change, peasants they are no plan of politics or how to change things are glad to overthrow one or to see someone gone and to see someone new than to realize ohh shit it is worse than before, which is called the fucking USA, every asshole of president did worse, Clinton, Bush, Obama and next will be Hillary Clinton and FFS if under her there are no nukes flying than this must be the proof for gods existence, because people are stupid enough to excuse every WW3 scenario under this vile creature.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:32 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

    1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

    Than don't demand things you are not in position to demand in the first place. You are no russian, you have no plan who should replace the current leadership than why demanding the current leadership in russia to step down? Such a thing would only do two kinds of people naive fools or people who benefit from a weak russia.


    Wow so who decides who's got a plan and who doesn't? Isn't it the people, Russian at at that? What you're saying is that we're not in a position to change anything, so let the men in the know deal with that...Which is typically a US conservative motto. AND typical of the German class system. Naive fools? Hahahaha. Having a guy for 20 years in power is a NO GO. That's simple. Structures from a same party yes, same guy no. That's a fact son.


    3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

    People want order to all cost is the product of the controlled MSM that constantly spreads fear that we fucking europeans are somehow in jeopardy from some religious fanatics the US and its puppets have financed themselfs or that somehow Iran or North Korea is a threat to the world next to russia while their record speaks otherwise. You have to counter the fearmongering from Western controlled MSM.

    There is alot to do to counter US bullshit and currently Russia is doing it. People who say there is nothing that can be done either have a very low education on that political field or are just right out missplaced to talk about politics at all. I already have shown you several things that can be done but you stick to the bullshit that the USA is 2012 and will finish us all, the US is already finished its fall is inevitable.

    Which isn't true, Order is what is wanted when people want a job, social services, accountability, they want a perennial system. Again it doesn't work like that with a system that thrives on competition. What can be done? Tell me? Where do you find the capital, where do you hedge your bets? How do you counter "MSM" when you can't produce anything with more finesse than a Rhino on LSD?

    RT is a Rhino on LSD. There are lots of good glimpses it can offer. But then they're marred with guys that have their head deep in their asses. The Anti-Migration tune of the "experts" on some reels in just suffoccating.

    When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do.

    That is the problem under Soviet Union there was an ideology for progress and education, there were many kids going to schools and actually enjoying it, today it is the oppossite. What problem i have with people like you is your mindset. You are thinking out of personal, short term and not collective long term point of view. If you want to change this that the kids today value time wasting garbage with unimportant time consumers rather than thinking about future, than there is little you can do alone but there is alot you can do from a political point of view. You have to restablish what i constantly say, the passion and ideology for education and science. There are many professions today seen as some dead end job without honor while in Soviet times being a teacher was one hell of prestige job, being responsible for the education of the next generations and building own future. Today it is the opposite, we have incompetent teachers that just are teachers because it is a safe job which can't be fired from unless you committ murder or rape the kids, but being a bad teacher you will not lose your job or being even partially racist will not be a reason to fire you at least that is how it is here in germany and in some other western countries.

    Yes that is true. But you can't do that beyond a certain level. You can't just do that that way today. You can start whole Agit-Prop programs with the current cream of the crop of crooks in Russia. It's as simple as that. It's a hornets' nest.

    4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

    If you see RT as an useless tool to balance the monopoly of narrative the west brings than you clearly have no idea how politics works. Softpower is the king of war and peace. If you think RT is bad than you clearly have no buisness in geopolitics. The content is not the same, RT is not spreading fear and warmongering rhetorics to demonize countries or to coverup stories to invade other countries. It is surely not what i would want to have as the standard for News and Journalism, but you are a fool if you believe Media can be free. The actual free media are people that do it as a hobby and have only a couple of hunred views or maybe thousands views and have no income. This are comercialized media for the purpose of representing a narrative and that is important if you like it or not, but RT is doing a great job of countering the propaganda and it indeed has broke the total Monopoly of western controlled MSM where western people seek now alternative news. You can call RT whatever you want but it is an important and good step of breaking this "Ruzzian evil" garbage.

    RT becomes useless as soon as you do fact checking. Same for any MSM. Preying on lazy people isn't opening their eyes, it's just confusing them a little more. But I agree that RT doesn't have hour long programs on HOW Obomber is a blood sucker.

    5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

    Everyone that use wrong examples and does not see the politics behind it is someone that does not understand geopolitics. It is not germany, germany is a Proxy embassy of the US. The EU is an US construct with Germany next to Brussel as the administrative which is directed and supervisioned by Washington. Don't even believe for a moment that Germany is some souvereign state doing it all out of own interest, it is not. No politician in germany has severed the last 70 years for german interests but Washingtons. People should realize that, because this Devide at impera is working exactly in this manner, using  Germany as the evil power over the countries that have been defaulted via IMF and US to canalize the hatred against each other rather where the hatred should go towards Washington
    .

    The issue however is that while Divide ed Impera might be a good tune it simply isn't. While Germany is unarguably toothless as a EU leader, it still generated enough around itself to create a situation in which the Europoors forget their woes and issues and start playing the Rasha bad tune. Hence the case.


    6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

    All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.


    Yes, you are right that they all want to serve their own interest, but they won't be able without BRICS, because the western market is a closed one for US asslickers only, meaning they are doing it out of own interest on a mutual basis, if they like it or not. That gives at least some freedom for economical shift and not relying on an evil controlled market which the West abuses and uses against countries that are not licking their bum.

    There is not basis to have any relationsship with USA at all, it is an evil empire that is playing european and all other countries around the globe against each other for the US gain. Russia needs to counter the russophobic views created by US in europe to have their good relationships. The problem for Russia are only from Germany and the countries in between. They need to counter the russophobia in Poland, the failed states of baltics, romania, bulgaria, czech and ukraine other than that Russia does not need to get more narrative spreading across europe at all. Germany is a crucial and vital part for good relationships with entire europe that is why US does everything to undermine russian and german relationships.

    There is nothing good or evil in politics. It is only about power.


    Side note:

    -On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
    What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

    There is a change needed but from own experience privatization and bureaucracy it is definitley not the way to go. Corruption here in germany is the 2nd most corrupt country on this planet after US and we are the most bureacratic country. The corruption is just legalized and canalized more or less making corruption a legal thing by loopholes everywhere, hard for small buisness but a dreamland for big buisnesses to be corrupt. You have no idea how the big gap between the corruption in russia and in Germany is. Germany beats the shit out of russia in corruption. It is just freaking subtile empowered by laws and loopholes in laws and the population is knowing it but they don't see the extent of it. Believing that a PRIVATE bank will respond in favor of a country is just lying to yourself. Private banks are only interested in private income and currently the constitution overrules the treaty obligations the CBR has to take control and stability of the Ruble, it was one of the major factors of burning the forex money.

    Bureaucracy is needed because no one gives a fuck about procedures. A huge part of the deal is respecting procedures. It gives the apparences of order. This is a good way to neutralize the whole TI rankings. Again on the FOREX milking, it had almost nothing to do with the Ruble, it has to do with the fact the FOREX market in RUssia is still seen as a way to make money by people who normally would have their money put in long term projects. Fast cash. That's something that Europeans don't do. Because they don't have that much cash sitting around. This is a byproduct of grey economy and a Russian state of mind.
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    That is exactly what you demand, putin to step down, he is in his third period. Demanding such a thing is retarded. Question who do you want to see next? I want a name a party?

    That is the problem people are only scratching on the surface to politics but are the first to demand things without understanding the consequences. You can not change the system just by replacing people who are currently working for CHANGEMENT. The next people that will be leading we don't know them yet, there is no one on the horizont that would do even a 100th percentage of what Putin did. Demanding change without solution is retarded, get more involved in inner politics and geopolitics before demanding.

    That is how bloody revolutions come, people yelling for Change, peasants they are no plan of politics or how to change things are glad to overthrow one or to see someone gone and to see someone new than to realize ohh shit it is worse than before, which is called the fucking USA, every asshole of president did worse, Clinton, Bush, Obama and next will be Hillary Clinton and FFS if under her there are no nukes flying than this must be the proof for gods existence, because people are stupid enough to excuse every WW3 scenario under this vile creature.

    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face. What Russia risks, is becoming a one face-state. And the West works hard to reduce it at that. Putin this, Putin that.

    People who are working for changement? Let us say that the said breed requires more than Rogogo and Shoigu. Russia is undergoing an ethical rebuilding. Let it be the best possible. Having one grandpa reign in the kids will open open the pandora box when the grandpa will retire.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:40 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Wow so who decides who's got a plan and who doesn't? Isn't it the people, Russian at at that?  What you're saying is that we're not in a position to change anything, so let the men in the know deal with that...Which is typically a US conservative motto. AND typical of the German class system. Naive fools? Hahahaha. Having a guy for 20 years in power is a NO GO. That's simple. Structures from a same party yes, same guy no. That's a fact son.

    Citizens do. I say you are not in position to change that, you are not a russia citizen such duties fall only for citizens of a country and no country ever should dictate around what is best for another. That is not a conservative motto, it is a fact. I asked you who the fuck you want to see up there. You could not answer this question, i asked you what you want to change you did not answer the question. If there is no alternative either you provide one with an own party or you are bound to stay with Putin which is the best option there is right now with some minor options which have disadvantages of no political experience but a good policy like PVO. Having a guy for 20 years is a No GO? Really having stupid and harmful exchanging faces for 100 years is even worse, better same guy with progress for 20 years than 5 idiots that are doing the exact oppossite and selling a country out every period.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Which isn't true, Order is what is wanted when people want a job, social services, accountability, they want a perennial system. Again it doesn't work like that with a system that thrives on competition. What can be done? Tell me? Where do you find the capital, where do you hedge your bets?  How do you counter "MSM" when you can't produce anything with more finesse than a Rhino on LSD?

    RT is a Rhino on LSD. There are lots of good glimpses it can offer. But then they're marred with guys that have their head deep in their asses. The Anti-Migration tune of the "experts" on some reels in just suffoccating.

    How is that not true? Is RT not showing that Syria is attacked by US terrorists and that the same terrorists are good in Syria but bad in Iraq? Is RT not showing the involvement of US in the entire Ukraine coup de etat? I already told you what can be done, if you don't provide parolle you will be just overthrown with the current anti russian bullshit from the west, counter it or fuck off there is no other option.

    More finesse? Like i said you clearly did not understand the entire geopolitical basis of medias. RT was the first attempt, it was a pilot of trying to break the Monopoly of western controlled Mass Media and it is a total success, it broke the monopoly, there are more westerners watching RT than russians. If you have a limited budget and resources you don't spread your resources to create small baseless narratives to counter something. You will never get media finesse from state budget, they have very specific interests and interests have to be fought for and that does not work they way you want to see it. It does not matter what you believe or think fact is RT is a total success story for what it was designed for, the monopoly is broken now the job is to expand on that and provide more and not just narratives.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Yes that is true. But you can't do that beyond a certain level. You can't just do that that way today. You can start whole Agit-Prop programs with the current cream of the crop of crooks in Russia. It's as simple as that. It's a hornets' nest.

    That is wrong, if the west can do it with much more Corruption so can russia, they just need once and for all PURGE the fucking 5th column and period. You don't like that of course but are constantly yapping, if you don't provide solutions that keep the yapping to yourself because yapping did not help anyone, solutions are needed, provide some or search for them.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    RT becomes useless as soon as you do fact checking. Same for any MSM. Preying on lazy people isn't opening their eyes, it's just confusing them a little more. But I agree that RT doesn't have hour long programs on HOW Obomber is a blood sucker.

    Fact checking what exactly, give me examples please? It is not preying on lazy people, that is what has been the narrative or RT and they made it pretty clear, don't watch just RT watch other sources and watch different points of views, because basing political education on only one will make you biased and that is correct. I personally would say don't watch MSM at all and RT is not MSM because it is not mainstream but contra, but of course you can see on MSM where the governments are trying to shift personal opinions. When they start fearmongering against a country you know the US already has its hands in it, as soon they start demonizing a man you know they see their oil or money hegemony in jeopardy.

    What RT is pathetic at is to get a basic position in germany which is a game changer, entire Germany is the crucial factor for US, if they don't open eyes of germans that US is not our ally but our enemy they will never change the politics. The problem here is our german MSM is not even german, the head of ZDF is in US while ZDF is actually only a national Media with some channels for Switzerland and Austria but other than that no one else gets it, but the headquarters are somehow in US, suspicious to say the least.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The issue however is that while Divide ed Impera might be a good tune it simply isn't. While Germany is unarguably toothless as a EU leader, it still generated enough around itself to create a situation in which the Europoors forget their woes and issues and start playing the Rasha bad tune. Hence the case.

    There you are wrong, we currently have in Europe this Divide ed impera tune, europeans are getting blame at each other for crisis while all are direct against but at the same time against Russia, because US does not want to fight themselfs against russia they once again want stupid europeans to march against the bear.

    There is a good quote from Game of Thrones, "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow. "

    That is the point where russia needs to play against. Germany has no power, but EU citizens where fooled to believe it, so use this believe, free Germany from Washington narrative and the rest of EU will follow that example. Germany is game changer for the entire Washington policy on european continent as soon you change that crucial part the rest will fall apart.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    There is nothing good or evil in politics. It is only about power.

    There is evil in politics, if the demise and decimation of people serves the fear and warmongering to create false flag like MH17 false flag, Tonkin or Pearl Habor to justify your actions than yes that is truelly evil, it just a sad truth.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Bureaucracy is needed because no one gives a fuck about procedures. A huge part of the deal is respecting procedures. It gives the apparences of order.

    So you want just an illusion of order just like we have in the west? What kind of problem solving is that to just take the blue pill and flee into an illussion while the problems only get worse where people don't even see the problems and the state can do any sinister things they want protected by the illussion of order and protection. Good thing russia is not going this retarded way and good they keep Putin up. I rather would leave in a bad reality than live in a dream illussion while vile scum is doing anything possible to steal more effeciently and to keep the intellectual depopulation in place. I do not want to live in that system and appereantly russians don't want that either.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    This is a good way to neutralize the whole TI rankings. Again on the FOREX milking, it had almost nothing to do with the Ruble, it has to do with the fact the FOREX market in RUssia is still seen as a way to make money by people who normally would have their money put in long term projects. Fast cash. That's something that Europeans don't do. Because they don't have that much cash sitting around. This is a byproduct of grey economy and a Russian state of mind.

    Yes, the Forex milking had to do little with ruble, but it was used as reason for it and the CBR is the big part in that by directing the solutions and decisions how to deal with it. The solution is to seize property and money of those speculators and throw them out of the country, but of course you don't like that it is to harsh, always wanting change but never wanting take actions against those scum. You are very wrong on that part with europeans, they even have more corrupt system with milking the cash that is safed up like in Forex, they just do it more secretive and in different manner, but the result is the same they steal money and much more than russia has, it is called the ECB and ESM every year bln euroes are shred out from countries and pumped in the arses of private banks. This little 100 bln are just peanuts compared to 700 bln capital that is milked and kept at its highest limits every god damn year. They already have milked countries taxes with over 500 bln since 2008 followed by already pre-planed bailout money with over 1 trln. This is how this bureacracy system is milking the countries to bail out private banks which stole and steal money from the people, who are running in default but the people are milked out.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    A face swap, people don't want a fac swap the approval ratings show exactly that. Face swap won't do jack shit anyone that demands a face swap with expectations for the better is bloody peasant that has no understanding of politics and has no other solutions to offer but a damn face swap.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face.

    The current revolutions are color revolutions, orchastrated bullshit from the west. There was no genuine revolution in russia since fall of USSR. I understand a revolution and a revolution is not a revolution without an idea, bloody peasants screaming for change without a revolutioneer that proposes solutions is not a revolution.
    I would love to see a system without a face, but any country on this planet is far away from reaching that.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:What Russia risks, is becoming a one face-state. And the West works hard to reduce it at that. Putin this, Putin that.

    I still fail to see how is Putin to be blamed for that? If there is no fucking alternative to him other than Navalny, Nemzovs and other shits that are paid to be new yeltzin than how is that the fault of Putin?

    Provide genuine politicians that want russia to progress with better policy than Putin and United Russia party can offer and give the people a genuine option than you can have it your way, but you can not just demand Putin to step back when there is no alternative but 5th columnists from the West and i say it again only a RETARD or 5th columnist themselfs would suggest that.

    People who are working for changement? Let us say that the said breed requires more than Rogogo and Shoigu. Russia is undergoing an ethical rebuilding. Let it be the best possible. Having one grandpa reign in the kids will open open the pandora box when the grandpa will retire. [/quote]
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:21 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Citizens do. I say you are not in position to change that, you are not a russia citizen such duties fall only for citizens of a country and no country ever should dictate around what is best for another. That is not a conservative motto, it is a fact. I asked you who the fuck you want to see up there. You could not answer this question, i asked you what you want to change you did not answer the question. If there is no alternative either you provide one with an own party or you are bound to stay with Putin which is the best option there is right now with some minor options which have disadvantages of no political experience but a good policy like PVO. Having a guy for 20 years is a No GO? Really having stupid and harmful exchanging faces for 100 years is even worse, better same guy with progress for 20 years than 5 idiots that are doing the exact oppossite and selling a country out every period.

    The idea is here that we are discussing out of hand. You're currently in Germany and yet you're defending a position within Russian political landscape. The world shouldn't be US or Them. Because it is the shortest way to what is going on Ukraine. And Ukraine is the epitome of what happens when your country stagnates for two decades and has no other option but to go full retard or stay the course. If the choices are of binary type, you are bound to fuck up half the time.

    Werewolf wrote:
    How is that not true? Is RT not showing that Syria is attacked by US terrorists and that the same terrorists are good in Syria but bad in Iraq? Is RT not showing the involvement of US in the entire Ukraine coup de etat? I already told you what can be done, if you don't provide parolle you will be just overthrown with the current anti russian bullshit from the west, counter it or fuck off there is no other option.

    More finesse? Like i said you clearly did not understand the entire geopolitical basis of medias. RT was the first attempt, it was a pilot of trying to break the Monopoly of western controlled Mass Media and it is a total success, it broke the monopoly, there are more westerners watching RT than russians. If you have a limited budget and resources you don't spread your resources to create small baseless narratives to counter something. You will never get media finesse from state budget, they have very specific interests and interests have to be fought for and that does not work they way you want to see it. It does not matter what you believe or think fact is RT is a total success story for what it was designed for, the monopoly is broken now the job is to expand on that and provide more and not just narratives.
    Syria had its fair share of problems before being attacked by the cream of the crop of the Petro-Monarchies. It was stalling on many levels. Some of them were due to foreign meddling (Hariri killing, Syrian workers repatriation after 2005), some were due to the very system that Hafez had put in place.

    This is what makes the whole narrative of RT unbearable on various occasions, because it does the same thing the Western MSM does, in reverse. Assad had a secular regime, true, he also had gaols for secular opposition. Assad is under attack, true, but a bunch of Assad's opponents are people that don't give two fvcks about democracy. It's just a good opportunity to break free for the Kurds. You can have an intelligent assessment of the situation without simplifying too much. Otherwise you end up with the US situation. Fighting its minions in Iraq, supplying the in Syria, bombing Iranian-backed people in Yemen, relying on them in Iraq. This is the confusion, simplification causes for the public. Typical IS chaos...


    Fact checking what exactly, give me examples please? It is not preying on lazy people, that is what has been the narrative or RT and they made it pretty clear, don't watch just RT watch other sources and watch different points of views, because basing political education on only one will make you biased and that is correct. I personally would say don't watch MSM at all and RT is not MSM because it is not mainstream but contra, but of course you can see on MSM where the governments are trying to shift personal opinions. When they start fearmongering against a country you know  the US already has its hands in it, as soon they start demonizing a man you know they see their oil or money hegemony in jeopardy.

    Man there are enough examples out there. The lines to Russian/ UA border in april, Some reiterations there were no Russian troops in Ukraine (while we all know and have seen columns moving out of UA through Tarasov). Some idiotic petty propaganda RT has recouped like Photoshopped Swastikas on UA MTLB's.

    I directly seek the sources where they are. I'm not bound to RT.


    What RT is pathetic at is to get a basic position in germany which is a game changer, entire Germany is the crucial factor for US, if they don't open eyes of germans that US is not our ally but our enemy they will never change the politics. The problem here is our german MSM is not even german, the head of ZDF is in US while ZDF is actually only a national Media with some channels for Switzerland and Austria but other than that no one else gets it, but the headquarters are somehow in US, suspicious to say the least.

    Germany is a game changer, but the problem is that German political elites don't give two fvcks about popular counscience.



    There you are wrong, we currently have in Europe this Divide ed impera tune, europeans are getting blame at each other for crisis while all are direct against but at the same time against Russia, because US does not want to fight themselfs against russia they once again want stupid europeans to march against the bear.

    There is a good quote from Game of Thrones, "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow. "

    I don't see the EU leadership blaming themselves regarding Russia. They tried their hand in 2013 they failed, got to back up plan, failed again. Now it's sanctions time.

    That is the point where russia needs to play against. Germany has no power, but EU citizens where fooled to believe it, so use this believe, free Germany from Washington narrative and the rest of EU will follow that example. Germany is game changer for the entire Washington policy on european continent as soon you change that crucial part the rest will fall apart.

    What I see is a disruptive force in WDC that worked hard on the sidelines as the bad cop, and made it happen.

    There is evil in politics, if the demise and decimation of people serves the fear and warmongering to create false flag like MH17 false flag, Tonkin or Pearl Habor to justify your actions than yes that is truelly evil, it just a sad truth.

    Still nothing Evil, it is just a means to an end. Politics are Amoral by definition.

    So you want just an illusion of order just like we have in the west? What kind of problem solving is that to just take the blue pill and flee into an illussion while the problems only get worse where people don't even see the problems and the state can do any sinister things they want protected by the illussion of order and protection. Good thing russia is not going this retarded way and good they keep Putin up. I rather would leave in a bad reality than live in a dream illussion while vile scum is doing anything possible to steal more effeciently and to keep the intellectual depopulation in place. I do not want to live in that system and appereantly russians don't want that either.

    The illusion of order is needed to confound and disprove the idea that Russia is different. Rule exist to make sure everyone breaks them, but while not getting caught.

    Yes, the Forex milking had to do little with ruble, but it was used as reason for it and the CBR is the big part in that by directing the solutions and decisions how to deal with it. The solution is to seize property and money of those speculators and throw them out of the country, but of course you don't like that it is to harsh, always wanting change but never wanting take actions against those scum. You are very wrong on that part with europeans, they even have more corrupt system with milking the cash that is safed up like in Forex, they just do it more secretive and in different manner, but the result is the same they steal money and much more than russia has, it is called the ECB and ESM every year bln euroes are shred out from countries and pumped in the arses of private banks.



    Europeans don't have the same level of liquidity. That's why Europe is having big issues with any kind of common policy. I don't like drastic problems presented as super solutions

    This little 100 bln are just peanuts compared to 700 bln capital that is milked and kept at its highest limits every god damn year. They already have milked countries taxes with over 500 bln since 2008 followed by already pre-planed bailout money with over 1 trln. This is how this bureacracy system is milking the countries to bail out private banks which stole and steal money from the people, who are running in default but the people are milked out.

    Bureaucracy? Bureaucracy was against the bailout, it was the political leadership that broke all the seals and said fvck it we're having a party.Technocrats would have you dead and buried if that would help with their models.

    You call burning a 100 bln in three months nothing? That's the epitome of insanity. The defensive posture that the State took was directly undermined by the Forex market.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    A face swap, people don't want  a fac swap the approval ratings show exactly that. Face swap won't do jack shit anyone that demands a face swap with expectations for the better is bloody peasant that has no understanding of politics and has no other solutions to offer but a damn face swap.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face.

    The current revolutions are color revolutions, orchastrated bullshit from the west. There was no genuine revolution in russia since fall of USSR. I understand a revolution and a revolution is not a revolution without an idea, bloody peasants screaming for change without a revolutioneer that proposes solutions is not a revolution.
    I would love to see a system without a face, but any country on this planet is far away from reaching that.

    FFS where do you think politicians grow on trees? Those able professionals that can change the system for good are faced with a simple system. Either with or against United Russia. This is good enough for a transition, it isn't any good for the future. You say provide politicians, why? Why principles should be bend because you can't think straight for a moment. This current discussion is a perfect example. You are defending a Statu Quo that in the end will always end up in stagnation.



    Revolutions, again stem from inertia, injustice and graft. The violence is just a bonus.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:33 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    The idea is here that we are discussing out of hand. You're currently in Germany and yet you're defending a position within Russian political landscape. The world shouldn't be US or Them. Because it is the shortest way to what is going on Ukraine. And Ukraine is the epitome of what happens when your country stagnates for two decades and has no other option but to go full retard or stay the course. If the choices are of binary type, you are bound to fuck up half the time.

    I am not defending anything i just state FACTS, you are the one living outside russia but demanding for Putin to step down without any proposal who should come afterwards and how they should deal with the problem. So how is that ok for you but not ok for me?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Syria had its fair share of problems before being attacked by the cream of the crop of the Petro-Monarchies. It was stalling on many levels. Some of them were due to foreign meddling (Hariri killing, Syrian workers repatriation after 2005), some were due to the very system that Hafez had put in place.

    This is what makes the whole narrative of RT unbearable on various occasions, because it does the same thing the Western MSM does, in reverse. Assad had a secular regime, true, he also had gaols for secular opposition. Assad is under attack, true, but a bunch of Assad's opponents are people that don't give two fvcks about democracy. It's just a good opportunity to break free for the Kurds. You can have an intelligent assessment of the situation without simplifying too much. Otherwise you end up with the US situation. Fighting its minions in Iraq, supplying the in Syria, bombing Iranian-backed people in Yemen, relying on them in Iraq. This is the confusion, simplification causes for the public. Typical IS chaos...

    So what? US has its problems lets start financing terrorists getting them into US, starting bombing US citizens and seize government buildings and than justify everything that has been done on RT that the US had problems before and that now the russian backed terrorists have justification to bomb US. This BS is no justification for anything, there is no country on earth without problems and just because countries have problems does not justify terrorism against them to overthrow their leaders. Syria was doing damn fine before that, that is the reason why the West was sending terrorists to Syria, because they were doing fine and are not bowing down to kiss US arses and because they are chess piece on the board to get closer to russia and weaken it.


    RT is not reporting BS lies, it does not need to cover shit that has nothing to do with US terrorists in Syria, one is not connected to the other. Who says that Syria should become "democratic" it is for Syrians to decide what political system they have to adopt, it is their own process to get to the point to decide their political system and just because they are not "democratic" does not justify attack on them. The simplyfication that is at hand on RT is this two narrative, showin faked US airstrikes against ISIS targets, which never show targets just empty cars in nowhere without showing any sign of human life form and the fact that ISIS is the US terrorist group that is FSA/AL-Caida/Taliban that are the good guys in Syria but the bad guys in Iraq and RT does mention that but they do not state that as an dogma. They leave room for discussions there. It might be a problem for people who know politics but for people that try to get a different narrative and with the constant bullshit of RT being just propaganda lies, they try to keep things lower profile than western MSM bullshit where they declare already what something is or is not before you ever have heared of someone or some group. That one western propaganda is called suggestive manipulation what RT does is indication.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Man there are enough examples out there. The lines to Russian/ UA border in april, Some reiterations there were no Russian troops in Ukraine (while we all know and have seen columns moving out of UA through Tarasov). Some idiotic petty propaganda RT has recouped like Photoshopped Swastikas on UA MTLB's.

    I directly seek the sources where they are. I'm not bound to RT.

    You know joking right? There were no photoshoped swastikas, they are there till this very date they use Wolfsangelrute,SS and Swastikas on their tanks, helmets and flags, nothing of that is photoshoped. There were no russian columns in Ukraine, pleace show me the evidence of Tank COLUMNS inside of ukraine. You can find enough video material of swastikas,SS and Wolfsangelrute symbols through out ukraine and please don't tell me this bullshit that they are all photoshoped. Sounds like TR1 denying that ukrops having nazi battalions. Enough footage of ukropians driving with tanks with Right Sector, US and whatever symbols and flags around.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Germany is a game changer, but the problem is that German political elites don't give two fvcks about popular counscience.

    That is why russia should give a fuck and give a different point of view, because if they don't then we will have WW3 scenario of retarded europeans getting played against each other.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    I don't see the EU leadership blaming themselves regarding Russia. They tried their hand in 2013 they failed, got to back up plan, failed again. Now it's sanctions time.

    EU members are not blaming themselfs regarding Russia, they are blaming each other with crisis such as Greece against Germany and Germany portraying greeks as some folk of lazy wasteful plebs with the constant notion that IMF tries to help which is the root of the EU crisis and greeks position with the austerity measures which have crippled the greeks economy and conditions even further.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    What I see is a disruptive force in WDC that worked hard on the sidelines as the bad cop, and made it happen.

    That can't be left unattended.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Still nothing Evil, it is just a means to an end. Politics are Amoral by definition.

    99% of population will disaggree with you. False Flag attacks and terrorism to push for political means is evil. So if there is no evil in politics than why not spread terrorism everywhere, it is not evil and not unethical like you say. Let us just blow up everyone who disaggrees with me because that is terrorism and terrorism is political tool to get what i want and by your defintion that is not unethical.

    Seriously you should get see doc.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The illusion of order is needed to confound and disprove the idea that Russia is different. Rule exist to make sure everyone breaks them, but while not getting caught.

    Wow, once again please go see a doctor. Instead of a real order with working laws and mechanisms to keep stability and order you just want an illusion but with continuing shit mechanism.... I am not even sure if a doctor can help that is just exactly how Westerners are doing what they have been doing for past 100 years.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Europeans don't have the same level of liquidity. That's why Europe is having big issues with any kind of common policy. I don't like drastic problems presented as super solutions

    They have the liquidity that is called the ESM with an annual budget of 700 bln that is by law to be paid by EU members and the budget since 2008 is constantly at its limits.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Bureaucracy? Bureaucracy was against the bailout, it was the political leadership that broke all the seals and said fvck it we're having a party.Technocrats would have you dead and buried if that would help with their models.

    You call burning a 100 bln in three months nothing? That's the epitome of insanity. The defensive posture that the State took was directly undermined by the Forex market.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    No they were not, because the bureaucratRATS sit in ECB in Frankrfurt and in Brussels they were the bureaucrats that have decided, no one else had any legitimacy to decide for bailout or not that is what the ESM is for ruled by Brussels unelected shitholes.

    It is you who compares one corruption with another and states false facts. The corruption here in our western countries is far higher, they are just well established and subtle while the russian one is the oppossite, that however does not change anything and by going our shit western way of illusionary stability and order you just open the doors for heavier corruption and by the end you just defeat russia from within and kill its population. Yeltzin 2,0.

    Russia does good, despite the CBR burning money and not bein seized and federalized, as soon the narrative of the West changes from Russia evil to russia partner you can be sure there is a traitor president selling out the country.



    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    FFS where do you think politicians grow on trees? Those able professionals that can change the system for good are faced with a simple system. Either with or against United Russia. This is good enough for a transition, it isn't any good for the future. You say provide politicians, why? Why principles should be bend because you can't think straight for a moment. This current discussion is a perfect example. You are defending a Statu Quo that in the end will always end up in stagnation.


    Revolutions, again stem from inertia, injustice and graft. The violence is just a bonus.

    No, i state only facts. It is you an non russian citizen demanding russian leadership to step down and by MAGIC wishfull thinking someone will do a better job, while the entire landscape of other politicians show that they are harmful for russia either being paid by west or being incompetant to say the least.

    You can't change the system by demanding the ONLY current political party and leadership doing the things that HAVE to be done for progress and they are having progress and then somehow expect someone will do it, because that is not how it works.

    I defend Putin because he is doing a fucking great job, by having already federalized and brought back russian resources under russian hand unlike the Shit PSA (Partner Sharing Aggreement) that was signed by oligarchs like Khordokovsky and Yelzin where Russia had even to pay US and UK oil companies like BP and shell so they drilled for russian money and russian oil while Russia was paying to costs for the drilling. What a wonderful world. It is only Putins leadership that made this happen by LEGAL means to reverse this PSA Aggreement and to seize back russian oil and companies and now they are earning money.

    If you have no solutions than just stop demanding things and expect magic things will solve problems which are currently are trying to be solved.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:12 pm

    If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense).

    If you want to suggest RT is just the other side of the same coin as CNN and FOX and the BBC then you are wrong... RT actually has plenty of Americans... actually more than I would prefer, who are not traitors to America, but would be considered traitors to the current governments and the government structure as it stands today.

    If you think a bit of chaos to get change is good, then we disagree. Czechoslovakia managed to split into two separate countries without chaos or war... the chaos of a revolution in a country with nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them around the globe might appeal to you, but I would suspect only the American government would find that an appealing situation, but only because it would present an opportunity for them to interfere and get control... something no Russia should find appealing.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Vann7

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    Russian Liberals Explained in 5 Minutes

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:30 am

    Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:52 am

    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..


    To the biggest extend the same reason why lot of polish are russophobes, they were told to not to be slavic that they are western and everything eastern are barbars in caves.

    Liberals are an special group of idiots that are destryoing countries. Loberalism, the extend the west has brought are those scums that are happily destroying cultures, revisionise history to such an extend that it has even less truth then the enemies propaganda over a defeated enemy. A folk that has no culture and no past has no future. Liberals are indoctrinated and directed idiots to destroy exactly this basis of any civilization. If you have no past you have no direction meaning no future, so they first destroy your Past to change your future (direction) and someone who has no ideals, goals or future will be easier to control and direct to a specific harmful future where only the leader can benefit. Western extreme Liberalism is canceruous to every society. Of course such extreme Liberals existed during Soviet Union but that were to the end a minority. You can see in russia those political parties who call themselfs liberals are entirely anti-russian and entirely Pro-USA, which again when looking at who the leaders of those parties are have been caught red handed several times being paid or orchastrated from US embassy in Moscow, Nemtsov was one of these scum.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:45 am

    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian. In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot. In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern. Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav. I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia. If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west. And breathe the air of freedom. Everyone would be so much better
    off.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:43 am

    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian.  In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot.   In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern.  Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav.   I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia.  If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west.  And breathe the air of freedom.
      Everyone would be so much better
    off.

    Like ex-pat Dagastani's and Chechens, the problem is once they leave Russia they end up having a vendetta against Russia, so they end up wanting some form of vengeance, whether it's setting up IED's and road side bombs (in Russia, or in pro-Russian countries), or trolling cyberspace.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:33 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian.  In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot.   In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern.  Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav.   I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia.  If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west.  And breathe the air of freedom.
      Everyone would be so much better
    off.

    Like ex-pat Dagastani's and Chechens, the problem is once they leave Russia they end up having a vendetta against Russia, so they end up wanting some form of vengeance, whether it's setting up IED's and road side bombs (in Russia, or in pro-Russian countries), or trolling cyberspace.

    I am afraid that they have left the mental reservation and cannot be saved even if they stay in Russia. At least in the west
    they get a chance to learn how to hate Uncle Sam. In Russia they just hate Russia and Russians. Dagestan and Chechnya
    are examples of Wahabbi recruitment efforts. They are able to dupe some fraction of the population to turn into jihadi idiots.

    But there has been a lot of success in quarantining these lunatics to their Caucuses homelands in recent years. It would be
    nice if Navalny buggered on off to Banderastan.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:11 pm

    Russian liberals are mostly ethnic Russians, including the ones who ruined Russia in the 90s and led to all the problems in the Caucasus, ignored the Ukraine and did nothing while it slowly turned into Banderastan, etc...

    Sorry to burst your bubbles guys.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Russian liberals are mostly ethnic Russians, including the ones who ruined Russia in the 90s and led to all the problems in the Caucasus, ignored the Ukraine and did nothing while it slowly turned into Banderastan, etc...

    Sorry to burst your bubbles guys.

    In any organization there are "most people". The key is who are the deciders. Too many of the deciders amongst the kreakls fits
    my observation.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:13 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/804893

    Ahahahaha. If true, I hope he faces judgement.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:03 pm

    From the first report linked.. pay attention to how eastern Europeans talk.



    A pro-western Hungarian will point out that Catholic and Protestant Hungary can by no means be an “eastern” country and that Eastern Europe only begins once you cross into Orthodox Romania to its east.

    A pro-western Romanian , will point to his Latin-based tongue and insist the east doesn’t begin in earnest until you’ve traversed his land and entered Slavic Ukraine.

    A pro-western Ukrainian will then give you a list of ways in which his country differs from Russia to back up his view that true east doesn’t really begin until you’ve crossed the border between the two.

    the pro-western Russian ... does not have the comfort of an even more Eastern European neighbor.


    I also remember Georgian new prime minister interview by RT ,when asked why Georgia
    wanted to join European economic bloc and not Russia economic block.. His answer was because they feel European ,because his culture.. because they feel this or that.. and he
    even went in details of how their race is connected to Europeans.. etc.. etc etc..

    All that repeats again and again.. no matter who you ask.. anyone seeking a better quality of life see Europe as their destiny. and will give you any excuse about that..Ukrainians go as far
    as to rewrite History to justify they are Europeans not RUssians.


    But the truth about all this what it is?

    It has to do more things that no body talks ,and not even like to think . Why no body wants
    to be closer to India? or China? Why Israel that is on middle east a middle east country does not participate in any sport competition in middle east? not even the ones hosted in ally countries like Saudi Arabia or Bahrain ..instead europeans competitions?...

    The reason for 5th column in Russia had to do more with..

    1) Material Things , Physical Luxury ,material comfort.
    but also it had to do with salaries and money. Russia do have luxury.. but the middle and lower
    class in Europe (that is Northern European nations) live overall in better infrastructure ,than the same people in Russia. and this is not mentioning the superior salaries too.  

    2)and to some other much smaller degree , Racism..
    Racism is real , it didn't vanished. White People don't like to mix with blacks or browns or yellows. Is a fact that general white families.. who are white will prefer their family members
    to marry with BLond/blue eyes white people and will prefer they not marry with Asians or blacks or browns. One of the common and valid reasons is they want their family members to look like them.

    The only exception are Billionaires.. they have properties around the world. They feel citizens
    of the world.. and the only reason they oppose Putin Patriotism.. is because they don't want
    sanctions against their properties abroad or make very difficult for them to make money in
    Europe.. So the only thing left to defend their money is either become patriotic and return to Russia.. or to fight putin to lift the sactions..  I think Kudrin that is not billionaire, for example is paid big money for becoming a 5th column rat and try to sabotage Putin.

    Interestingly but ironically is that also Blacks ,Asians and Browns.. prefer whites for mixing.
    and there is a major controversy of a common practice in the world of Blacks and Brown people
    modifying their skin with products to look more white..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAOMp6pbiM    (using michaek Jackson was a bad example he had skin problems but the others are valid.)

    not only in Holywood
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RysLzmNMkuA

    Asians girls want to look like European Womens and and spend a fortune to NOT look like they were made.. but like something else. This is why you see a lot in beauty context Nations like India send whiter girls to their context.

    So now you have the most powerful reasons to join Europe..  not because of all the culture
    crap they told you.. or because their "historical connection" or not even because "more freedoms" crap. that any Russian Liberal will tell you..  simply the real reason people look to
    the west is because..

    In order or relevance.
    1)More money,better salaries ,and modern advanced cities is the norm across the entire
    country ,there is poverty yes.. but a minority.. and more cities alive..ie.. more entertainment which is a consequence of more money that people have to spend. ie. (Northern Europe)
     
    2)because they want to mix with European Whites .

    Now comes the important point here..
    Had US and Europe gone bankrupt its economy tomorrow and all of them in the same state of Greece and major US and European economies collapse like Soviet Union.. US become
    10 failed countries and Europe becomes chaos ,just like Africa or middle east. and Russia become a very prosperous nation.. and every city in Russia to be like Sochi or like MOscow and St Petersburg in infrastructure.. and everyone with very good salaries.. had Russia turn into the world greatest economy.. You will see those Euromaidans and Georgian maidans idiots saying how they are indeed Russians , that they were wrong.. and indeed they will join anything with Russia.. even return to become a Russian autonomous republic.

    This means that the greatest threat to US Empire and its World Hegemony plans..
    is not Russian nukes , but a very Prosperous ,very wealthy Russia
     Because that will
    Influence Significantly Not only Ukrainians to return to their mother land and re-unite.. but worse .. it will lure away Europeans from the American orbit.

    IF anyone comes to the conclusion that prosperity in a country ,is a very Powerful Influence ,
    they will be right.. The interesting thing here is that Contrary to USA.. that that does not have
    the other influence bonuses that Russia have.. ie.. Rich Culture ,Castles and all that Tzars glamour ,that few in Europe have..and that is a mostly white nation.. (i have heard countless times Europeans comments about that..as a positive thing). Then Effectively Russia will have all the things necessary to become an ULTRA SUPER Influential Power ,a true Super Independent Power.. if the become Rich. and totally completely Replace USA.. and turn it into another Regional Power as CAnada is. That is if Russia becomes the world major economy or something close.

    And this is why the Americans Policy Since WORLD WAR 2 , that they become a world super power is to contain Russia economy..

    US achieved its world Economic super status...

    1)by creating alliances with the most developed nations EU ,Japan ,Canada, (so that do not trade with Russia or very little) and by controlling the energy in middle east.. to control Energy Prices which Russia depends.

    2)and with the help of Color revolutions and NATO no fly zones .

    3)By supporting arming Terrorism.. ISIS/Alqaeda and any extremist they can use to fight Russia interest.

    not less important ,it helped a lot americans being the only nation not invaded and destroyed.
    to attract talent world wide to create their industrial revolution. like Einstein and Tesla to name a few.

    IF for example the world long time ago ,phased out Oil and Gas as energy sources.. and everyone only used Solar energy and nuclear for 100% of their needs.. Then you will see
    Americans leave the middle east forever. and probably Israel Gov leave it too.. and move to Europe. And no longer middle east will be important for US ..because it can no longer be used
    to sabotage Russia business with Europe.

    If anyone comes to the conclusion that 100% of US foreign policy is aimed at sabotaging
    Russia economy ,to not allow Russia expand its influence to Ukraine ,baltics and Europe.
    very essential countries to contain Russia. you will absolutely correct.

    AMericans are in an economic competition war against Russia since world war 2 and what is new today is the level of desperation is far bigger, because their economy is more weaker today ,than a decade or two ago,  with CHina surpassing them. and now new financial alliances forming like BRICS..


    All the major conflicts in Middle east and Europe..all are created by American Government to
    break alliances and create new ones ,neccesary to the containment of Russia . Because Americans cannot eliminate Russia through military force, What they do ? they attack any nation that is friendly to Russia and important to its business.

    The Arab Spring.. only attacked nations that US could not control completely.. and/or had business with Russia.  Russia is now moving to Asia its economy.. then what Americans do?  Create the transpacific bullshit free trade to block Russia from there.  but it doesn't end there.. US can also attack Assians economies in many ways..including their own allies to weaken their economies so Russia cannot benefit from moving to Asia.  This can be done by signing free trade deals with Asia , but also
    by attack on their tourism..Terrorism attack on Tourism industry.. this have the CIA name all over it.  or mysterious plagues viruses that suddenly show up in X or Y nation, cannot be discounted either as a US job.

    But all this things needs to be done carefully in a way that do not affect US economy..
    Putin is making every day more difficult for Americans to isolate its economy. because Russia
    trade with NATO and nations that US cannot touch for x or y reasons.. ie.. Israel ,Turkey or Saudi Arabia. The last one for example If Russia overthrows Saudis.. who is going to replace them? It will be destabilized nation and it will blow hard US dollar..is a major civil war start in
    Saudi Arabia and No more oil sold there. Because their Oil is only sold in dollars.  Wink

    So Putin is truly playing 3rd dimension chess with Americans.. Is making unthinkable business
    deals ,that Americans cannot counter easily or not even touch at all.. like the new
    Irkut MC-21 airliner..

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150617/1023490200.html

    Because the western export of it.. will use American Engines..  Wink
    So if US CIA sabotage it..with toothpaste bomb media bullshit or real terror attack, it will damage their own companies..   Wink

    And it doesn't make things easier either to sabotage it ..if Israel participates in the project as they will do making the electronics.  But interestingly enough. the domestic version of the plane
    will use only Russian Technology.. so also Russia domestic use cannot be sanctioned by the west..  Wink

    IN summary i explained ,what i believe the cause of 5th column to exist.. they are materialistic people..   that looks to the west for what they believe a better life.. and the best way to counter it.. is by Russia becoming a very prosperous ,modern nation with very wealthy economy and modern infrastructure across most Russia .  

    Is an Irony that the 5th column in Russia fight their own nation policies that will allow Russia to be the very same Thing they want from the west. that is a better quality of life.. The reasons for their treason ,had to be their lack of faith on their own nation.. and their own capabilities to become the same modern ,prosperous ,advanced nation they want to be..so they instead wants to surrender to the west ,to become that..by trading their nation independence and sovereignty.
    The day US economy collapse.. and experience their own soviet union like split..and become poor nation.. You will see Europe moving towards Russia and all the 5th column parties will cease to exist. and they all will be "patriotic again". The Average 5th column  is people that wants instant results ,and lack of any faith on themselves and their own country to become a Prosperous modern Nation without depending in the west.


    It will be similar to the Europeans when they discover America.. when the natives saw them
    taught they were so superior.. and gave their gold many times in change for silly things that
    European technology could produce and they not. and even gave their nation sovereignty in
    change for European technology. And the Latin Americans took centuries later them to see that
    they were equals and not inferior to Europeans.and that they could get their own technology too..they could be "Europeans " too.. in terms of technology and create infrastructure too and comfort and roads,just like Europeans, without giving away their nation independence and sovereignty and power.

    So people always remember.. that when anyone of the 5th column tells you, they want
    a better quality of life of the west ,an "European life style".  In reality what they telling is
    they want prosperity that the average europeans have and the modern infrastructure that the average European enjoy . and probably a minority of the 5th column also have racism issues too.. Russia do have high quality modern infrastructure in most of Moscow and St Peterburg and other few cities ,but most of Russia is highly undeveloped using infrastructure of early soviet times.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:16 pm; edited 5 times in total
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:43 pm

    I would like to point out Vann that reason why they have much higher salaries than Russians, is due to massive inflation over the years and over valuation of goods. But the question that should always be raised is how much do you actually get for your money in country x vs country y, and average lifestyle.

    One thing I learned is that due to soviet times, majority of people already own property. As well, cheap property is quite available. Many people will purchase another home or even a dacha and then rent out their soviet apartment to make extra money. Mind you, soviet era apartments are usually dillapidated or just outright crap these days due to poor maintenance, but they still have one, with the option of buying brand new ones. In north America and Europe, many people either live in old traditional houses, or new but that costs a fortune.

    What I am getting at, till recently, Russians were getting more bang for their buck, especially in basic needs, and living nearly rent free (due to soviet home) so many had more disposable incomes.

    There is just this real grotesque idea that European lifestyle is where it is at, but they are only looking at what some people show or what tv shows, but not what it is upfront. You too can have similar lifestyle in Russia, as long as you pay for it, and looking at things like housing costs, labour costs and what not, you can live very comfortably in Russia, once again, if you are willing to pay for it.

    One thing they definately dont show or talk about, is debt of average people. As soon as a Russian or other from socialist history comes here, and then are forced into getting hundreds of thousands of dollars mortgage, they start to complain and see what is really happening - we in the west, live on debt.
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:18 pm

    Werewolf:

    What countries are liberals destroying and how are they doing that? Because I see something exactly opposite - it's impossible (I repeat- IMPOSSIBLE) to become prosperous without adopting western liberal economic system together with western legal institutions - and ALL non-western countries that succeeded economically (Turkey, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia) have done exactly that. There simply is no other way. Nowhere. It never was and will never be.

    I feel German and western at the same time and I don't feel that one of these identifies contradicts the other in some way. We belong to the western world (like it or nt( and we have contributed immensely to it's development over all these centuries (our scientists in Imperial era - excellence by all standards).

    If Poles want to preserve their "culture", they can. Except that today there is no culture anymore - go to New York, Berlin, Moscow, Shanghai or Tokyo and you'll see the same things everywhere - everywhere people dress in the same way, drive the same cars, everywhere buildings and roads look the same. What is there to preserve then?

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:26 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Werewolf:it's impossible (I repeat-  IMPOSSIBLE) to become prosperous without adopting  western liberal economic system together with western legal institutions  



    I disagree.. Japan was a very prosperous and organized nation ,a world power in ancient times ..with the most powerful military ,and they did not looked to the west and had their own culture.
    Most of the modern infrastructure in stone or solid concrete in Europe imitate either ITALY or Greece culture. China in ancient times was a super power ,when Europe was just a jungle.. they creating amazing castles ..and when the Europeans arrived first time to China ,they were already
    a super power. IT was China who invented Powder.

    When Europeans arrived to the new world ,today know as Mexico ,what they found? they found pyramids and giant buildings taller than the ones in Europe.. they lacked freedoms or human development.. but their building in some ways was more advanced than Europe. Egypt at one time was the most rich developed nation.. and their Pyramids still today are a mystery how they did that..

    All This means that the capabilities of any country and civilization to be self sufficient does not depend in reality on either the west or the east or anyone from outside. it only depends on the organization level of that society..  Human curiosity is an universal thing and all human beings always had desires to have better comfort in their lives.. is a natural need. and is what create Technology and Science. For nothing it is said Needs is the mother of all Human Invention.

    People found in ancient times , there was a need to make it easier travel , they found horses could be mounted..and later they invented the wheel ,then ships ,trains ,cars and planes and today the new thing is spaceships.. All those things does not were invented because of the west..but because of human needs.. and any nation that have an educated society that is good enough to not fight each other ,can focus their attention on developing their nation.

    THe problem with the lack of development in the east.. is precisely that UK empire and US but also france have done everything to ruin any plans of any non western nation to become prosperous and developed ,so that they don't need them. Take for example Africa.. Who split Africa in so many regions? Europeans did it.. and they continue doing that..
    in modern times.. (like Lybia and Sudan.and seeking to split Syria and Iraq and IRAN too) why Europeans split Africa and other nations through their interference in their politics? So that they can never become a competition to their economies and become a major Power.. a developed African Union ,could challenge Europe in terms of agriculture and tourism ,if AFrica was developed..

    But Russia do have the capabilities to become very prosperous ,and invent their own technology
    without the need of the west. Who teach Soviets to build space rockets? they did it.. No one in the west teach Russians how to travel to space. The knowledge how to do things and develop
    technology and a nation comes from trial and error ,of any society that is developed enough to
    have better things to do ,than to fight each other and instead to work for their nation.

    What Liberals have made.. is promote Globalization , that is nothing more than to allow western
    developed countries to take the monopoly of everything you consume.. So western nations can
    control your economy development by controlling the prices of what you consume.

    Neoliberal Globalization only benefit the most developed nations.. and the ones with less development and less capabilities become dependent of what they import from Abroad.
    This should be not a problem ,if we lived in a Fair World.. and US and Brussels was not a greedy nation seeking to dominate the entire world. But thats is not the case.

    The effect of Globalization in Russia is not as bad.. because Russia do have very talented
    people that can produce everything they need and consume. and because russia have the energy monopoly that Europe needs. But not all nations have such capabilities or benefits ,but very few.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:38 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Werewolf:

    What countries are liberals destroying and how are they doing that? Because I see something exactly opposite - it's impossible (I repeat-  IMPOSSIBLE) to become prosperous without adopting  western liberal economic system together with western legal institutions  - and ALL non-western countries that succeeded economically (Turkey, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia) have done exactly that. There simply is no other way. Nowhere. It never was and will never be.

    I feel German and western at the same time and I don't feel that one of these identifies contradicts the other in some way. We belong to the western world (like it or nt( and we have contributed immensely to it's development over all these centuries (our scientists in Imperial era - excellence by all standards).

    If Poles want to preserve their "culture", they can. Except that today there is no culture anymore - go to New York, Berlin, Moscow, Shanghai or Tokyo and you'll see the same things everywhere - everywhere people dress in the same way, drive the same cars, everywhere buildings and roads look the same. What is there to preserve then?

    Right now i have little time and little will to eleborate and put up all the work to explain it to you, how wrong you are and the countless examples of such "Liberals" which are mainly NGO driven idiots that get financial aid like they are some football players or have a contract with USAID directly.

    I will do it at the weekend.

    victor1985

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:35 am

    read books about capitalism. every book will say that even if capitalism shows some better organization in same time brings inequality in society. that makes some being poor some being rich. those liberals are the ones that want to joint the western club of rich people. and bring same inequality in russia. notice that a country can be economically stable even in the case that makes monetary policy and fical policy of redistribution. is enough to make small changes to economy curve at every x time. reduce that rise that and bring some equality. most of people would be happy only high rich people would not like that. a social based model society can exist easily. and intervent simultain in parts of economic curve you can obligate the rich bussines man to make all corect to people. simply cut his fortune in every way you can. he rise prices then give money to people who buy. and so on. he cant raise prices higher that taxes on his fortune and higher that social help to people.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:10 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Werewolf:

    What countries are liberals destroying and how are they doing that? Because I see something exactly opposite - it's impossible (I repeat-  IMPOSSIBLE) to become prosperous without adopting  western liberal economic system together with western legal institutions  - and ALL non-western countries that succeeded economically (Turkey, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia) have done exactly that. There simply is no other way. Nowhere. It never was and will never be.

    I feel German and western at the same time and I don't feel that one of these identifies contradicts the other in some way. We belong to the western world (like it or nt( and we have contributed immensely to it's development over all these centuries (our scientists in Imperial era - excellence by all standards).

    If Poles want to preserve their "culture", they can. Except that today there is no culture anymore - go to New York, Berlin, Moscow, Shanghai or Tokyo and you'll see the same things everywhere - everywhere people dress in the same way, drive the same cars, everywhere buildings and roads look the same. What is there to preserve then?

    The question is not what countries liberals with agenda pushed by major countries and troublemakers are pushing, but which countries they have not achieved it. We know this process of americanization of europe is a fact with all decadency that the western uncivilized world brings with it.

    Liberalism and similiar thoughts fly under the banner of having freedom to do whatever you want, to be an individual, to have no restrications and all that kind off things. The problem is if you have an agenda you do not fly a banner with your actual agenda, because most people do not like to dance to the tune of someone else, that is why they hide under one banner while doing a complete different thing.
    We are humans and we need boundaries, we need limitations, no one is truelly free everyone has responsibilities, everyone has expectations and some should never be allowed to have the freedom to do what they want, because some off the humans on this planet tend to not knowing or calculating their own desires and the consequences of their actions or right out sociopaths.

    What kinds of Liberalism is destroying or has the agenda off destroying societies?

    LGBT groups that are financed by non homosexuals or trannies, from private companies and organisations like the WHO that not only push for Pedophilia among their biggest supporters usually Green Party and Liberal Party members. We have today laws in germany were parents can be arrested if they do not want their children of 10 years old to go to sex education classes where they talk more homosexuality. Parents here in germany have been already arrested for taking their kids out of classes of sex ed with homosexuality and WHO is pushing for Pedophilia and teachers of kindergarden should emphasize to kids to explore their bodies... Not some teens or some grown ups but little kids.

    Liberalism also destroys art, in the past decade or two decades this absurdity of Selling Millions and to even billions some white board with some crap of color splash over it and this is called "Art".  Who has so much money to pay millions to billions for a thing that every imbecile can do better? Not some normal people, but organisations formed by governments. This has been also addressed by real historians and artists and they call it Anti-art. The hidden agenda to destroy the sense for Art and aesthetic within coming generations. Art is always and directly connected to the Zeitgeist of societies and direct build on History and Culture. Art is one of the pylons of Culture which is getting destroyed. To this same Pylon, counts architecture, which in todays times is replaced by American architects that build ugly grey buildings without any connection to any kind of history, how could it, americans never had any culture to base such architecture open it. Music another kind of Art that is directly connected to Culture and aesthetics. Music genres that have been known to entire world and that have its roots in our culture are replaced by non cultural connected music like pop and hip hop that only sings about bitches, money, sex and violance. The point here is that you can ask any new generation of youths, you will find always more kids that know Lil Wayne but less kids that know Mozart, Bach, Beethoven or Lübeck? That is also not a question of time or Zeitgeist. We still have great componists everyone has heared music from usually in movies, but are those people given anywhere nearly the respect or emphasizing this kind of music like Hans Zimmer who makes astonishing music? No he of course does not get that kind of fame despite of his great work. Those stupid music from america of pop and hip hop is controlled by media and hollywood. They control the so called Music Charts, Amy's and which song gets played in radios. USA controls the big majority of Radio channels and frequences in not only US but also in Europe. They use this and bombard us with this american crap music while you won't find anything in those Music charts that has even remotely roots to your local culture or musical culture.

    The goals of Liberalism that are pushed by specific groups, organisations and governments and their agenda is to disconnect the western populace from their roots of culture and history. A society without a past is a society without a future, meaning to redirect people in a preplanned future they first have to derail us from our current with history, culture and value connected society to bring us on a different path.

    Liberalism has today extremes which only 50-100 years ago you would have been put into asylum or right out executed for crimes against humanity or cruelty.

    In the US there are fonds and research facilities like "Planned Parenthood" financed by Rockefeller with doctors like Dr. Richard Day and Dr. Smajdor which want to disconnect Sex and Reproduction. Dr. Smajdor tells that Pregnancy is barbaric to women and that we women should not have to bear with such burden and become equal to men. This research facility which works for Rockefeller is researching how to create babies in laboratories without need of womens womb or male intercorse. This same Rockefeller Nick and his foundations along with other Foundations like GlaxoSmithKline and Bill Gates have invested in vaccines in Northern part of Africa, those vaccines were prohibited and still are prohibited to be used in US or Europe because they contain Silver or Mercury which no organism can handle and women are known to get sterilized from Mercury. That knowledge comes from the 1960's where mass sterilization in US occured after the use of vaccines with mercury after that it was banned. Today such Jews, yes they are jews Rockefeller, Bill Gates, Richard Day,Miss Smajdor and Bill Moyers are all zionazis that fund and work for such agendas. Great direction this agenda pushing zionists are pushing us, not themselfs or Israelis but the rest.  Those plans are known since 1969 from Dr. Richard Day speaking about Gendermainstream and Reproduction without need of Humans at the University Pittsburgh. His work is called "Research Priorities and Future of Pregnancy"

    Link. http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8453681

    This is exactly what was prohibited under Nazi germany, genetic manipulations, eugenics and ectogenics but this Rockefeller financed foundations are doing exactly that.

    Those extrim liberalism won't affect us now, this is preplanned for the future, but we are already pushed by their agendas of getting Gendermainstreamed, that we get educated that Male or Female this is just in our heads, indoctrinated from society to believe women are that and men are the other part. This bullshit has brought some societies and parts of it do absurdities like Thailands Shemales that do not know wtf they are, this absurdity is commercialized by Facebook,Twitter and all other crap Social networks where you can "choose" your gender among over hundred settings. In Austria the word Mother and Father officially to be called in documents or from officials is prohibited and replaced with Parent 1 and Parent 2, not to offend the homos with traditional healthy female-male marriages and parenting. We live in a fucking absurd world where Liberalism is pushed to extremes, where we in germany really waste MILLIONS to replace stupid road signs and traffic lights because they show MEN but not women and this stupid LGBT and Feminazi lobbyists who are financed by private groups of those exact and connected to those foundations. So do not tell me there is no obvious Agenda of Liberalism that goes to extremes that never should be allowed.

    There are examples i could go one for weeks straight. More examples of this proven and sometimes even openly speaking of such think tanks what their intentions are. like Richard Day did in 1969.

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