VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

GarryB wrote:I remember the head of UAC saying that Mig had fifth gen light fighter ready to go, but the focus was getting the PAK FA up and running first before they would start work on putting together a light model... which suggests to me that once the PAK FA is in service and the Mig-35 and Su-35 and Su-30s are in service in sufficient numbers the new light 5th gen fighter will start production to first replace the older and cheaper fighters like the Su-27s and Mig-29s, including the Mig-29SMT and Su-27SM aircraft, and then they will replace the 4th gen fighters (the 35s) as numbers enter service.

Russia could make huge money on LMFS besides filling their own gaps with it. Besides MIG-29 will be retired in a 15 years and something
should replace it.

GarryB wrote:Will be interesting to see what the PRN Frogfoot replacement will look like... most seem to be talking about stealth, but I suspect armour and payload and sophisticated self defence suites would be rather more important than stealth.

For a start making it stealth means internal weapons which is a huge compromise for that type of aircraft... it makes rather more sense to protect it from trash fire with armour and redundant design, and hang as many weapons off it as possible... and just fly low with an escort.

True. I dont think (no matter who said what) that they will replace Su-25 with its stealth version simply because that really does not make a sense. Same old Su-25 packed with new electronics and armed with new missiles should be more efficient than any of its stealth version.

Interview with Executive Vice-President of UAC TULYAKOV Alexander
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/05/27/255745.html

- What are the plans for the supply UAC civil aircraft state customers?

- Our proposals for the consolidated government contract to supply aircraft to the needs of the Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Emergency Situations, Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Security Service and other government agencies are prepared and sent to the ministries and agencies for approval. We expect that in the near future there will be appropriate regulatory documents that will further load capacities of enterprises KLA. It is about the delivery of the order of 130 civil aircraft of various types and modifications, including the Tu-204SM, An-148 and SSJ.

Interview with General Designer Fazotron-NIIR Yuri Andrei

http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/05/20/255324.html

Russia could make huge money on LMFS besides filling their own gaps with it. Besides MIG-29 will be retired in a 15 years and something
should replace it.

If they were clever about it they could make it modular and NATO compatible so that countries like France could buy one and fill it with French avionics and radars and use French weapons, while the British could do the same... and the Swedish and the Germans etc etc and the South Africans and the Brazilians.

That is not to say they all would but F-35 looks like it is going to be very expensive and US controlled. There are a lot of countries for which the F-35 is not an option, but they might not want all Russian stuff either... a Russian plane with French and Israeli and British bits in it might appeal... certainly those countries would like the work no doubt.

They could develop a cheap export all Russian model, a slightly less cheap more capable Russian model not for export, plus an MKI type model that can have foreign components added at the customers request that uses NATO standard equipment and systems.

An unmanned strike model could also be developed.

The way the F-35 programme is going it would be interesting if there was an alternative available...

Some large buy of civil aircraft by state on the anvil

Ministry of Industry and completes the formation of a consolidated government orders for aircraft

Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation completes the formation of the state order for aircraft, told the head of department Denis MANTUROV.

"We have until the end of this year to complete the formation of the state order. This 180 aircraft by 2020," - he said.

The Minister explained that the main parameters of the order agreed upon. "We have completed the technical training, now you need to print it," - said D.Manturov.

Earlier, representatives of the Industry and Trade Ministry reported that for the needs of the contracting authority will purchase 133 aircraft and 224 helicopters.

New helicopters for Russian army



New Mi-28N and Mi-26 arrived in WEST

and

new Russian defense magazine

LINK

Viktor wrote:Well well well what have we got here

- LMFS is a done deal as suspected

- MIG-35 is a done deal

- many other interesting things for up to year 2025

TABLE IS PROVIDED IN THE LINK

Future plans for the Russian Air Force in aeronautical engineering 2025


As reported web portal AviaPort.Ru, Assistant Minister of Defense of Russia, former Russian Air Force Commander Alexander Zelin, May 14, 2013 Air Force announced long-term plans for new and upgraded types of aircraft for the period until 2025 (probably in the framework of developing the state armament program for the years 2016-2025). .


Moscow. May 14. Airports - Russian Air Force plan for the period up to 2025 to create several types of new aircraft, said Assistant Secretary of Defense Alexander Zelin said. According to him, in the interests of the army aviation research is needed to ensure that the concepts and technical aspect of prospective high-speed rotary-wing combat aircraft. Its creation is due to the need to increase the combat capabilities for commands in strategic areas, as well as in the Arctic zone. should also conduct studies to determine the quantity and quality of complexes with unmanned aerial vehicles large and medium-range missiles, integrating them into a promising Air Force weapons system. You also need to work on the opening of the creation of a dedicated reconnaissance aircraft in the interests of groups of forces in strategic areas A. Zelin added. According to him, during the period 2021-2025 years, the Air Force planned to set up a promising attack aircraft and light multi-purpose front-line aircraft. It also provides work for creation and production of a series of special, transport, combat training and other purposes by aircraft. According to A. Zelin, today formed a good potential to improve the system of agents. In particular, it is planned to establish long-term and purchase of tanker aircraft, development and procurement of tactical aircraft of the future fighter T-50 fighter of the 4 + + Su-35 and MiG-35, a promising attack aircraft, amphibious medium transport helicopter, light and medium military transport aircraft and a number of others. Has launched a series of helicopters Mi-28N and Ka-52, Su-34, Yak-130, Mi-8 MTV-5, Mi-8AMTSh, is being modernized Tu-160, Tu-95 and Tu-22 and Su-25 , MiG-31, Il-78M. Physical purchased and modernized the Russian Air Force military equipment is presented in the table. Physical purchased and modernized military equipment




LINK

and there are many unknowns:

- CCL (strategic aviation) ??

- MARK (strategic aviation) ??

- WABT (transport) ??

- SMS SUS (transport) ??

- PRN (most likely stealth substitute for Su-25)

- LMFS (new stealth light single engine fighter)

- Link-3C (special aviation) ??

- Forward-M (special aviation) ??

- Porubschik (special aviation) ??

- Postilion-C (special aviation) ??

- hawk (special aviation) ??

- UGC PUP (trainer) ??

- LMTSV (helicopter) ??

- PSTDV (helicopter) ??

- POSTDV (helicopter) ??

- 5-generation combat helicopter (all clear here)

- PMTSV (helicopter) ??

- as we see MIG-35/Su-35/Su-30 will not be produced beyond 2020

- what will be produced however is Su-34/PAK-FA/LMFS/ UGC PUP

I think if Mig and Sukhoi get their stealths up and running as promised, thats a huge statement of intent for the RuAF.

The other key areas for me are PakDa, 4.5 and 5G choppers, drones, and commencement of
hypersonic and energy weapons work. Thats very possibly enough til 2030 or so... and beyond!

Its puzzling that Russia's stealth seems to be going pretty well. Whereas the US's has looked fraught with difficulties..

______________
Personally, I'd like to see the classic Russia alternative approach too. Something on ekranoplans, airships, amphibious planes. Also something on mini-drones etc.

And some strengthening of the civilian sector, which ofcourse overlaps with military.

But either way, much of the MIC seems to be getting back up to speed pretty well.

Russian Defense Ministry intends to develop based on the Yak-130 is a new strike aircraft
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/06/05/256530.html

The Russian Defense Ministry is studying the establishment on the basis of combat training aircraft Yak-130 is a promising light attack aircraft with more powerful engines

"It worked out in detail the establishment of a light attack aircraft based on the Yak-130", - said the adviser to the head of the military department, Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said.

This message is ex-Air Force Commander made at the 36th meeting of the Intergovernmental Coordination Council for Cooperation in the field of aero engine, which was held in Kiev on the basis of JSC "Motor Sich".

The general said that the establishment of such an aircraft would require upgrading standard engine AI-222-25, with an increase in thrust to 3000 lbs.

Austin wrote:Russian Defense Ministry intends to develop based on the Yak-130 is a new strike aircraft

This is something that will surely be done. Information about it has been floating around for years.

Firebird wrote:

Viktor wrote:Well well well what have we got here

- LMFS is a done deal as suspected

- MIG-35 is a done deal

- many other interesting things for up to year 2025

TABLE IS PROVIDED IN THE LINK

Future plans for the Russian Air Force in aeronautical engineering 2025


As reported web portal AviaPort.Ru, Assistant Minister of Defense of Russia, former Russian Air Force Commander Alexander Zelin, May 14, 2013 Air Force announced long-term plans for new and upgraded types of aircraft for the period until 2025 (probably in the framework of developing the state armament program for the years 2016-2025). .


Moscow. May 14. Airports - Russian Air Force plan for the period up to 2025 to create several types of new aircraft, said Assistant Secretary of Defense Alexander Zelin said. According to him, in the interests of the army aviation research is needed to ensure that the concepts and technical aspect of prospective high-speed rotary-wing combat aircraft. Its creation is due to the need to increase the combat capabilities for commands in strategic areas, as well as in the Arctic zone. should also conduct studies to determine the quantity and quality of complexes with unmanned aerial vehicles large and medium-range missiles, integrating them into a promising Air Force weapons system. You also need to work on the opening of the creation of a dedicated reconnaissance aircraft in the interests of groups of forces in strategic areas A. Zelin added. According to him, during the period 2021-2025 years, the Air Force planned to set up a promising attack aircraft and light multi-purpose front-line aircraft. It also provides work for creation and production of a series of special, transport, combat training and other purposes by aircraft. According to A. Zelin, today formed a good potential to improve the system of agents. In particular, it is planned to establish long-term and purchase of tanker aircraft, development and procurement of tactical aircraft of the future fighter T-50 fighter of the 4 + + Su-35 and MiG-35, a promising attack aircraft, amphibious medium transport helicopter, light and medium military transport aircraft and a number of others. Has launched a series of helicopters Mi-28N and Ka-52, Su-34, Yak-130, Mi-8 MTV-5, Mi-8AMTSh, is being modernized Tu-160, Tu-95 and Tu-22 and Su-25 , MiG-31, Il-78M. Physical purchased and modernized the Russian Air Force military equipment is presented in the table. Physical purchased and modernized military equipment




LINK

and there are many unknowns:

- CCL (strategic aviation) ??

- MARK (strategic aviation) ??

- WABT (transport) ??

- SMS SUS (transport) ??

- PRN (most likely stealth substitute for Su-25)

- LMFS (new stealth light single engine fighter)

- Link-3C (special aviation) ??

- Forward-M (special aviation) ??

- Porubschik (special aviation) ??

- Postilion-C (special aviation) ??

- hawk (special aviation) ??

- UGC PUP (trainer) ??

- LMTSV (helicopter) ??

- PSTDV (helicopter) ??

- POSTDV (helicopter) ??

- 5-generation combat helicopter (all clear here)

- PMTSV (helicopter) ??

- as we see MIG-35/Su-35/Su-30 will not be produced beyond 2020

- what will be produced however is Su-34/PAK-FA/LMFS/ UGC PUP

I think if Mig and Sukhoi get their stealths up and running as promised, thats a huge statement of intent for the RuAF.

The other key areas for me are PakDa, 4.5 and 5G choppers, drones, and commencement of
hypersonic and energy weapons work. Thats very possibly enough til 2030 or so... and beyond!

Its puzzling that Russia's stealth seems to be going pretty well. Whereas the US's has looked fraught with difficulties..

______________
Personally, I'd like to see the classic Russia alternative approach too. Something on ekranoplans, airships, amphibious planes. Also something on mini-drones etc.

And some strengthening of the civilian sector, which ofcourse overlaps with military.

But either way, much of the MIC seems to be getting back up to speed pretty well.

what a waste of money.... 2/3 of this stuff is either recycled old stuff or not needed at all

June Issue of Take Off Magazine

http://en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to27.pdf

Longish Interview with Deputy DM Yuri Borisov

The question on the part of aviation. Already a long-term contract for the Su-35s. When will sign contracts for the MiG-35?

- At the end of June or beginning of July this year, we have to go on to a state contract for the supply of MiG-35s.

- What is the reason for the delay?

- With the paperwork to determine the RAC "MiG" sole executor of this job.

Nice find Austin... thanks.

what a waste of money.... 2/3 of this stuff is either recycled old stuff or not needed at all

The vast majority of it is brand new including a new fifth gen light fighter that will introduce stealth in a much cheaper aircraft that can deliver at a lower price than the PAK FA so that they will have capability as well as numbers... in comparison with the west I rather suspect the figures for the F-35 will result in purchases to be cut drastically and 4th gen fighters soldiering on for much much longer.

Russia Attempts to Boost Irkut MC-21 Airliner Prospect

Optimization of "Sukhoi"


The future of the Russian aircraft ("La Tribune", France)

GarryB wrote:Nice find Austin... thanks.

what a waste of money.... 2/3 of this stuff is either recycled old stuff or not needed at all

The vast majority of it is brand new including a new fifth gen light fighter that will introduce stealth in a much cheaper aircraft that can deliver at a lower price than the PAK FA so that they will have capability as well as numbers... in comparison with the west I rather suspect the figures for the F-35 will result in purchases to be cut drastically and 4th gen fighters soldiering on for much much longer.

There is no way you can make lightweight fighter and have internal -fuel and especially internal weapons/ and still keep it small. Physics demands even if you lose the supercruise requirement it will be bulky. And its not true 5th generation if supercruise is not available.Unless they develop ultra small longrange weapons for a-a and a-g which is a fantasy. Stealth supercruise large internal fuel and internal weapons -demand a large fighter. Pak-fa was to be between mig-29 and su-27 but it got its weight go up.
This is a me too project ,and win for russian military-industrial complex.
 Hi-lo mix can be Su-50 and upgraded Mig-29 Su-27 versions untill ucavs can be created. Drop the LMFS or whatever its called now and save billions for uav programs that need it.

There is no way you can make lightweight fighter and have internal -fuel and especially internal weapons/ and still keep it small.

You can if you use some common sense and don't try to make a small fighter with the same performance requirements as  your medium or heavy fighter.

Very simply your light fighter just needs internal weapon space for 6-8 AAMs where 2-4 are very small Morfei type missiles and the remaining 2-4 are slim R-77 like missiles.

For ground attack roles or heavy air to air conflicts large numbers of external stores can be carried on pylons and conformal weapon points.

Physics demands even if you lose the supercruise requirement it will be bulky. And its not true 5th generation if supercruise is not available.

So F-35 is not a true 5th gen fighter?

Unless they develop ultra small longrange weapons for a-a and a-g which is a fantasy.

Why would it need stealthy air to ground capability? It would make more sense to use something like the Mig Skat for that.

This is a me too project ,and win for russian military-industrial complex.

No. This is a realisation that very expensive 5th gen heavy stealth fighters can't be everywhere and do everything when you only have about 250 of them, so a smaller cheaper alternative is needed.

In many ways it will be a cross between a 4++ gen fighter and a 5th gen fighter in that it will have supercruise, and 5th gen avionics and weapons, but will likely have lots of external weapons points for a heavy external load when stealth is no longer critical.

Hi-lo mix can be Su-50 and upgraded Mig-29 Su-27 versions untill ucavs can be created. Drop the LMFS or whatever its called now and save billions for uav programs that need it.

Developing smaller lighter aircraft makes sense as they will be cheaper to operate and as the USAF found in India a smaller aircraft is harder to spot in close combat too.

Smaller lighter aircraft should also sell well on the export market.

im highly sceptical .even t-50 cant pack more then 4 longrange missiles.
you cant have everything internal (for stealth reasons)  and a small plane. it will be bulky ,draggy ,need more power ,then more fuel, that means more weight ,i guess sometime you learn the hard way...and in the end it wont be cheap and in mass so again youll still rely on 4th gen. planes you wanted to replace.

im highly sceptical .even t-50 cant pack more then 4 longrange missiles.

That is because long range missiles are huge in both width and length and the T-50 has basically a single long weapon bay down its centreline.

Designed from scratch as a small fighter you can make individual weapon bays for individual or twin mounted missiles that are optimised for the weapons themselves.

The R-77 was originally designed from the outset to be internally mounted and its standard pylon includes and pnuematic ram to shove it clear of the aircraft... early proposals included weapon bays on the upper aircraft surface but were not used because it was deemed to difficult to reload by ground crew at forward air bases.

Morfei will be very small with very little in the way of control surfaces as it will have a fully TVC rocket motor.

you cant have everything internal (for stealth reasons)  and a small plane.

That is a contradiction... you actually HAVE to have everything internal for stealth reasons. For a small plane that simply means smaller lighter weapons and reduced weapon load of perhaps 2 medium range missiles like R-77Ms and four to six light missiles like Morfei/R-74.

You could have the two medium range R-77Ms in a centre belly bay with two Morfei missiles either side of it plus two more Morfei missiles in the fuselage sides and perhaps wing tip pods with countermeasures and sensors and perhaps even decoys and jamming towed drones with a missile in the wing tip that can be ejected sideways to launch.

The body around the engine or the wing will need to be thick enough to allow the undercarriage to fold up into it so with that sort of depth there will be room for missiles.

For stealth operations these aircraft are numbers aircraft so the idea is to have lots of planes so having only a few AAMs is OK. When stealth is not important any more then external wing pylons can be used so large amounts of ordinance can be carried.

it will be bulky ,draggy ,need more power ,then more fuel, that means more weight ,i guess sometime you learn the hard way...and in the end it wont be cheap and in mass so again youll still rely on 4th gen. planes you wanted to replace.

That only happens when you try to make a cheap light plane with the same performance as the bigger planes. The key will be to reduce internal fuel to a level where it will have a good range but not a great range with the extra internal volume used for weapons and electronics.

i guess sometime you learn the hard way...and in the end it wont be cheap and in mass so again youll still rely on 4th gen. planes you wanted to replace.

You just need to look at the evolution of the F-16 and now the F-35 to see the mistake... the old KISS principle applies... a small light fighter with a good gun and a good radar and good AAMs is all they really need.

i think you have a problem in understanding some things.
\like i said- you cant have everything internal (for stealth reasons)  and a small plane.
these two dont go together.
- because of stealth reasons and everything being internal it just cant be small.-
you need to do air-ground work with it too.
that means lots of bulk and reinforcements.
aaand up goes the weight.
it must have 2 short range and 4 longrange missiles minimum in today combat.
theres now way around it.
or you want 1 missiles per plane?? LOL.
or you want low fuel and  short range?
ok but that will reduce loiter time.
it wont be light.
technology is already developing in t-50 so out goes the tech reasons and science development.
and calling it cheap wont make it cheap.
you can call it cheap 1000times like you do already, it wont become that!
and you wont be making lots of them.

And it is pretty clear you are not understanding me properly either... but what is new...

\like i said- you cant have everything internal (for stealth reasons)  and a small plane.
these two dont go together.

I am not suggesting it carries everything internally... I am only suggesting it carry 6-8 slim compact missiles internally in several custom designed weapon bays... to make it stealthy. When stealth is not so important then conformal and external weapon loads of larger and bulkier air to ground weapons or a larger payload of air to air weapons can be carried.

- because of stealth reasons and everything being internal it just cant be small.-
you need to do air-ground work with it too.
that means lots of bulk and reinforcements.

Air to ground weapons can be standoff weapons like the 80km range Kh-38, amongst others, carried externally.

or you want low fuel and  short range?
ok but that will reduce loiter time.

A small light aircraft does not need enormous range or very long loiter time... UCAVs and heavier aircraft or carrying external fuel tanks and inflight refuelling can be used.

technology is already developing in t-50 so out goes the tech reasons and science development.
and calling it cheap wont make it cheap.

Using technology already developed for the PAK FA rather than making a whole new aircraft will make it cheaper and larger production numbers will also help to keep costs down.

you can call it cheap 1000times like you do already, it wont become that!
and you wont be making lots of them.

As long as they keep a focus it is achievable... personally I would go for a 5th gen fighter engine based on the RD-33 with thrust in the 12 ton range. This will seriously limit weight and ensure the aircraft remains light and cheaper than if they tried to make it a PAK FA2.

2 new Mi-28N + 1 Mi-26

Western District receives helicopters and bombers

2 x R-77 in the centerline of Su-35 

I have a couple of questions on VVS and I will post them here to avoid opening more topics:

- Is there any equivalent of Link-16 available/being developed? Carlop Kopp website mentions that export Flankers have TKS-2 data links available and that other systems are being developed.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2008-04.html

- What is the latest in targeting pod development? Russia got a license for Thales pod Damocles, but in France it will be replaced in 2018. How do the Russian models compare? there seems to be progress in thermal sensors as Russian companies have displayed thermal sight for tanks which are comparable to what is available in the market.

a89 wrote:Is there any equivalent of Link-16 available/being developed? Carlop Kopp website mentions that export Flankers have TKS-2 data links available and that other systems are being developed.

Absolutely . All RuAF aircrafts have indigenously developed IFF transports & voice/data secrecy encryption hardware on-board. This also allows for full scale integration with GLONASS for safe transfer of data betwen various air , space based and land assets. 

Just to clarify that Link 16 is not full proof . L Band AESA radar systems can jam Link 16 emitters . 

a89 wrote:What is the latest in targeting pod development?

101-KS-N pod is currently being developed for the PAKFA . Pictures below :

The annual operational crews flying tactical aircraft to the Russian Air Force in 2020 to increase by a quarter

Annual raid crews operational and tactical aviation of the Air Force / Air Force / Russia should increase in 2020 and a quarter to reach 125 hours. For the current year, the figure is 100. This information is published today on the website of the Defense Ministry plan of the Office 2020 software to implement the presidential decree of May 7, 2012.

Annual raid crews Military Transport Aviation should reach 150 by 2020 hours, army aviation - 130 hours of Naval Aviation - 120 hours. In the current year for each performance military aircraft are, respectively, - 110, 70 and 70 hours.

Significantly increase naplavannost crews of surface ships and submarines of the Navy: it should be 2020 125 days a year on the crew, which is more than two times higher than the norm of the year / 65 days /.

Implementation of individual indicators combat training military personnel in the Army in 2020 to be achieved by the following indicators: practical driving mileage drivers of vehicles - one thousand kilometers a year, the crews of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers - 500 kilometers per year.

At one military intelligence units in 2020 should account for 21 parachute jumps a year, airborne and air assault units - 12.