Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

jhelb wrote:I just called up several people both in Russia and UK(Russians living in UK). And these are guys who have been part of the Russian military. They tell me that a Russian military response against Turkey is unlikely.

A full scale confrontation is not needed now. Wait for the chance to shoot the Turkish fighters when they cross over and what better than pounding more and more the Turkish terrorists.

Now, do some deliberate airspace violations but with good air-superiority cover to take out any F-16s.

sepheronx wrote:All these petty little moves wont make a difference to Erdogan.  What will, would be shooting down any Turk jet that enters Syrian airspace.  And launching more missiles but closer to the Turkish Border.

mmm no

Russia needs to defend its forces and cannot allow Turkey to disrespect Russia and continue to allow them to shot down their planes.. if they enter in Syria airspace..
now that they shot down theirs.. is clear that Turkey is on the side of ISIS.. and for the only
reason they enter in Syria is to either bomb kurds or to help ISIS or attack Syria/Russia coalition ..  Russia needs to defend itself..

and latest MOD reports. (someone at RT told) .is that it will depoly air defenses near Syrian Border and shot down any plane that threaten Russia Airforce security. This means no turkey zone inside Syria at least..

On a side NOTE.. France is now saying the turkey border more than ever needs to be closed..
what that means.. don't think it will be with Turkey inside Syria. Because will be bombed by Russia. So it appears like France is trying to convince Obama to change its policies.

sepheronx wrote:

jhelb wrote:I just called up several people both in Russia and UK(Russians living in UK). And these are guys who have been part of the Russian military. They tell me that a Russian military response against Turkey is unlikely.

Till what point? Are Russian lives that expendable? Will more have to die till Russian government wakes up?  This will be shown signs of weakness that NATO will take advantage of.

To those in the Kremlin they are.

RT ‏@RT_com 28m28 minutes ago

Russian marine killed in Syria after Mi-8 helicopter hit by shelling while searching for Su-24 pilots

Turkey has announced they will soon establish their buffer zone in northern Syria. It's so sad to see Russia getting knocked around by a thug like Erdogan. Not much of a response yet.

Dima wrote:

sepheronx wrote:All these petty little moves wont make a difference to Erdogan.  What will, would be shooting down any Turk jet that enters Syrian airspace.  And launching more missiles but closer to the Turkish Border.

Yes. That time will come soon as Turkey cant stay long out of Syrian airspace to strike the Kurds. Just wait for the chance.

But before that Russia needs to bring in more Su-30SM, MiG-29, A-50 and strengthen & expand AD assets with BuK-M2 and S-300/400.

Kuznetsov ?

Dima wrote:Hope you Or was it asulander who said Russian casualities are bound to happen? Who ever it is, hope they are satisfied now?
Those who said so can now claim that "I said so".

Let's get something straight right now, my friend.

Each and every casualty in the current war in Syria is a tragedy, just as each and every casualty in the war in Novorossiya, or any war for that matter, is a tragedy. Sitting off the coast of Syria is OUR flot from Sevastopol, we know a lot of these boys and men. Flying out of Latakya are OUR boys, some from Belbek just to the north of us, so close we can hear the dawn patrol become airborne. We know a lot of them also.

We have put to rest 29 of our local boys killed in the fighting in Novorossiya in the last 18 months. I have had the sad honor of being the NCOIC of the Honor Guard for some of them. Our adopted son is fighting in Novorossiya. One of our prospective adoptive daughters whose parents died in Gorlovka has forgone her formal education, completed her basic training and advanced vocational training and is now, as of late last month, serving in Novorossiya as a field medic.

Do you really think I would gloat and say 'I told you so'? You can take your condescending comment and shove it square up your ass.

On RT now



Breaking news
Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destory any target posing danger

I think this is very plausible

Babak Taghvaee ‏@BabakTaghvaee 53m53 minutes ago
Even yesterday, the #THK was waiting for a #RuAF jet to shoot it down in the area. Today an E-7T AWACS helped the F-16Cs in the shoot-out
https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee


How about some accidental shoot down of some Turkish patrol a/c?  


Babak Taghvaee ‏@BabakTaghvaee Nov 23

Turkish Coast Guard C235-100MPA monitored RUS Navy activity in Mediterranean Sea during its routine flight -23/11/15

zorobabel wrote:Turkey has announced they will soon establish their buffer zone in northern Syria. It's so sad to see Russia getting knocked around by a thug like Erdogan. Not much of a response yet.

Sure they will. Right now I guess the entire Russian Armed Forces are awaiting for an opportunity to score or scorch some kebabs. Let's see how they try to pass establishing foreign military presence in another sovereign state without being rightfully branded as aggresors.

The dystopian reality we live in can best be observed throught the reports of state television and radios here, speaking of Turkish negotiations and captured Russian pilots. Just imagine the extent to which they are going with this disgraceful reality denial and PR. Stupid masses.

zorobabel wrote:Turkey has announced they will soon establish their buffer zone in northern Syria. It's so sad to see Russia getting knocked around by a thug like Erdogan. Not much of a response yet.

Russia can easily defeat any air defense or combat jej that try to force a "buffer zone".
So this is more like turkey raising its bets ,to provoke Russia and interrupt its operation against
the terrorist. one way to deal with this is Asking kurds to close the border with turkey with Russia airforce support to FORCE turkey come close to Syria border or even enter ..and try to bomb Syrian kurds and  then Russia retaliate at them back.. or provide manpads to kurds to shutdown turkey planes.

KiloGolf wrote:

Vann7 wrote:This also suggest that the Russian Electronic warfare is not as good as we believed.. at least
not in old planes.. and the so called bubble of 300km of area denial not working?

It's never meant to work like that. There's very little to do when you have heavy-laden bombers being locked by AMRAAMs, with no local EW assets nearby. I even doubt their RWR on the Fencer detected the lock. New AMRAAMs lock after launch, like way after, which gives the attacked less than few seconds to get RWR notification.

If link 16 was used, Turkish Block 52+ and CCIPs use it. And they also have ground stations and the huge Wedgetails. These Fencers were toast.

The probability of hit of an AMRAAM is minuscule (close to zero), even with no EW present. The probability of hit of a Sidewinder is higher, and that of the 20 mm gun is much much higher.

The measured distance of the Su-24's alleged incursion into Turkish airspace is 2.39 miles from entrance to exit.

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

At a cruising speed of 300mph, the Su-24 would only be in Turkish territory for about 28 seconds.

There is no way the Turkish F-16 could have fired, and struck, the Su-24 while it was still in Turkish territory. Either the pilot fired before the Su-24 entered Turkish airspace, or else the F-16 struck the Russian plane after it had left Turkey.

Something clearly does not add up.

Screencaps from the Russian briefing.



Map.



Radar signatures. During the impact of the rocket.



The moment when Turkish jet crossed the Syrian border after that.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:The probability of hit of an AMRAAM is minuscule (close to zero), even with no EW present. The probability of hit of a Sidewinder is higher, and that of the 20 mm gun is much much higher.

Why post this crap? If it's true that they used a C7, this probably the most capable, operational radar-guided missile in the region.
The probability of hitting an aircraft that possibly didn't even have chaff dispensers or EW cover is huge.

The AMRAAM has shot down a lot of USSR origin planes and will continue to do so unless Russia gets its act together.

max steel wrote:The measured distance of the Su-24's alleged incursion into Turkish airspace is 2.39 miles from entrance to exit.  

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

At a cruising speed of 300mph, the Su-24 would only be in Turkish territory for about 28 seconds.

There is no way the Turkish F-16 could have fired, and struck, the Su-24 while it was still in Turkish territory.  Either the pilot fired before the Su-24 entered Turkish airspace, or else the F-16 struck the Russian plane after it had left Turkey.

Something clearly does not add up.

According to US UN ambassador, the alleged tresspassing in distance is 1.15 miles in length and 1.35 in depth. The plane tresspassed less than 2km and it took both planes 17 seconds to clear the Tr Airspace. This shit was premeditated and there's nothing more to say.

auslander wrote:

Dima wrote:Hope you Or was it asulander who said Russian casualities are bound to happen? Who ever it is, hope they are satisfied now?
Those who said so can now claim that "I said so".

Let's get something straight right now, my friend.

Each and every casualty in the current war in Syria is a tragedy, just as each and every casualty in the war in Novorossiya, or any war for that matter, is a tragedy. Sitting off the coast of Syria is OUR flot from Sevastopol, we know a lot of these boys and men. Flying out of Latakya are OUR boys, some from Belbek just to the north of us, so close we can hear the dawn patrol become airborne. We know a lot of them also.

We have put to rest 29 of our local boys killed in the fighting in Novorossiya in the last 18 months. I have had the sad honor of being the NCOIC of the Honor Guard for some of them. Our adopted son is fighting in Novorossiya. One of our prospective adoptive daughters whose parents died in Gorlovka has forgone her formal education, completed her basic training and advanced vocational training and is now, as of late last month, serving in Novorossiya as a field medic.

Do you really think I would gloat and say 'I told you so'? You can take your condescending comment and shove it square up your ass.

Seems like you couldn't ignore my comment maybe coz you felt hurt or some other reason.

Thats is exactly what me (and probably many other might have felt) when someone comes up with his prophecy regarding the Russian contingent in Syria. Most people very much understand that Russia as a nation is fighting on many fronts including helping a trusted friend Syria against heavy odds with almost no other major power to really back up..... so every single day its with fingers crossed to see everything goes ok and it definitely doesn't sound good hearing some stupid prophecy about combat losses as if no one else knows about brutal reality of war.

ult wrote:Screencaps from the Russian briefing.



Map.



Radar signatures. During the impact of the rocket.



The moment when Turkish jet crossed the Syrian border after that.

Those radar pictures look really bad for Turkey.

I'm not even going to try to speculate on Russia's response.

Zivo wrote:

ult wrote:Screencaps from the Russian briefing.



Map.



Radar signatures. During the impact of the rocket.



The moment when Turkish jet crossed the Syrian border after that.

Those radar pictures look really bad for Turkey.

I'm not even going to try to speculate on Russia's response.

Does this mean they fired Sidewinders?

From all these photos we've seen it looks that those scums killed russian soldiers AFTER their capture, and maimed their bodies, maybe when they were still alive This machine-gunning BS is just a cowardish cover.
All this event was coordinated between turkoman terrorist and erdogan terrorist aka turkish army.


But what Russia should do after that ?
Absolutely withdraw all Russians citizens and close all embassies and consulates in Turkey. Turks would take them hostage after things would go hot.

Good idea would be destroying all turkish refineries and power stations along with
large manufacturing plants , and their main source of income - bombing all those riviera resorts ( they should say to all tourist to go home to save their hide before that though).
Basically destroy entire turkish economy.

But of course it will not happen ATM before further wave of hostilities,
but i think they will name Turkey as Terrorist State and demand sanctions
( West will look really stupid by not agree and pretending fighting terrorism).

Someone said that SAA needs Smerch, yes but couple dozens huragans is enough for Latakia frontline given low proximity of those turkoman rats .
So saturating frontline with rockets is priority.
Certainly this region needs also some ethnic reshuffling in the future : Kurds in turks out for example ...

And more importantly Russia needs permament airbase in western IRAN where they should move part of their strategic bombers along with their escorts to start heavy loving ..uhm bombing.

BTW. Greets from Poland this is my first post after introduction.

ult wrote:Screencaps from the Russian briefing.



Map.



Radar signatures. During the impact of the rocket.

https://i.imgur.com/fEs5QbJ.jpg

The moment when Turkish jet crossed the Syrian border after that.

https://i.imgur.com/UQmRv5E.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/79OOWu4.jpg

This shoot down could have been clearly avoided if there was a Su-30SM covering the strike a/c.

zorobabel wrote:Turkey has announced they will soon establish their buffer zone in northern Syria. It's so sad to see Russia getting knocked around by a thug like Erdogan. Not much of a response yet.

And get incinerated like cockroaches that they are?

If turks had balls to do anything along those lines they would have done it by now and they would not be waiting in ambush for weeks trying to shoot down a passing strike plane and then immediately run off to their pimp in Brussels/DC for protection.

I am sorry for the russian people. RIP

Three (?) men lost, two aircraft, a black day. May the pilots and the marine rest in peace!


A question about the screenshot of the radar - can someone please explain me what is happening? the resolution is bad and I don't understand these lines. Green is Turks? Where/when exactly did they (F-16) cross the Turkish border?