Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #3

Was the Su-30SM close interception of US fighter jets in Syria detected by their AWACS and radars, or was it yet another unpleasant "surprise" for Americans as a means of depriving intrusion into Syrian airspace?

Kyo wrote:Was the Su-30SM close interception of US fighter jets in Syria detected by their AWACS and radars, or was it yet another unpleasant "surprise" for Americans as a means of depriving intrusion into Syrian airspace?

What?

If all this is true about the level of success russia is having with e/w, then that, combined with the cruise missiles, lighting quick deployment and high success rate of the russian strikes must really have the head sheds of nato absolutely dumbfounded or worse. They are used to fighting against guys woth beards and an ak that hide in caves, this is a whole new style of opposition that nato has never fought, and i hope never will. I genuinely think that right now, if nato came up against the russians on an even battlefield they wouldnt have a clue what to do.

OminousSpudd wrote:NATO's confusion with this EW and ECM coverage is, primarily I suspect,  due to the fact this is the first time they're (facing, for the lack of a better term) an OPFOR that is on par if not superior in terms of sophisticated assets. In fact I'd venture to say it's the first time since Yugoslavia they've faced EW of any kind.

We had very, very limited EW capabilities here. Main asset for ages were 4 Mi8T helicopters converted into electronic warfare laboratories with serial numbers 12409-12412. They were developed in cooperation between Italian company Ellectronica and Yugoslavian Imtel and were equped for radar jamming mainly, i belive system installed had name Aries. In late 90s two were sold and two were stripped back to original state Mi8T.

Then Furnus control cabins for S600 radars equiped with digital frequency coder which allowed transfering orders for intercept or engagement in total radio silence.

Not many real jammers of any kind existed, at least not to my knowledge.

Of course the EW systems would work.  LOL, why do you people find it so surprising?  Such systems have existed for a long time as Militrov said.  As well, US or NATO isn't some kind of super duper beyond physics.  Russia has used ton of this stuff.  As well, these systems are not cheap.  Russia wouldnt simply purchase them to scare people.

Militarov wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:NATO's confusion with this EW and ECM coverage is, primarily I suspect,  due to the fact this is the first time they're (facing, for the lack of a better term) an OPFOR that is on par if not superior in terms of sophisticated assets. In fact I'd venture to say it's the first time since Yugoslavia they've faced EW of any kind.

We had very, very limited EW capabilities here. Main asset for ages were 4 Mi8T helicopters converted into electronic warfare laboratories with serial numbers 12409-12412. They were developed in cooperation between Italian company Ellectronica and Yugoslavian Imtel and were equped for radar jamming mainly, i belive system installed had name Aries. In late 90s two were sold and two were stripped back to original state Mi8T.

Then Furnus control cabins for S600 radars equiped with digital frequency coder which allowed transfering orders for intercept or engagement in total radio silence.

Not many real jammers of any kind existed, at least not to my knowledge.

That is strange. I woulda figured that Yugoslavia was heavily involved in it.

sepheronx wrote:Of course the EW systems would work.  LOL, why do you people find it so surprising?  Such systems have existed for a long time as Militrov said.  As well, US or NATO isn't some kind of super duper beyond physics.  Russia has used ton of this stuff.  As well, these systems are not cheap.  Russia wouldnt simply purchase them to scare people.

Haha, of course they dont build them as a gimmick.

The surprise is because its the first time for many of us that they are being used on a modern battlefield and be so obvious and visible. In an era where for the last twenty years we have seen nato bombing pretty much defenceless targets, its fascinating to see nato come up against a brick wall and not seem to have answer for it. Dont get me wrong, the us are no dummies and will come back with something of their own, but right now its fun watching nato and its vassals... sorry, allies scratch their heads

Odd, isn't it?

RT in Spanish says that today, October 14, spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defence, Major General Igor Konashenkov, stated that "the Su-30SM approached a US aircraft in the Syrian sky for identification reasons and not to threaten it. In his statement, Konashenkov explained that the systems which the Russian aircraft features registered a signal from an "unknown flying object".

"Our interceptor approached at a distance of about two or three miles not to scare anyone, but rather to identify the object and its origin. Later, the Russian plane returned to the battle group to carry out routine tasks".

On October 13, the spokesperson of the US Central Command in the Middle East, Steve Warren, said that last Saturday October 10 a physical approach was registered in Syrian airspace between a Russian fighter jet and an aircraft of the international coalition led by the U.S.

https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/188527-rusia-explicacion-aviones-acercamiento-eeuu

So.......that makes little sense.  The Su-30's were being jammed? or was it reversed?  Either poor translation or something else.

Su-30's would have detected those american jets quite easily and from very far distance. Unless those radars were not on at all.

The Russians are no doubt "hooked" into Syria's existing radar network as well

Siempre_Leal wrote:Direct hit from airstrike on a Rebel HQ in Tahtaya, Idlib


Pictures from "Activist" also claims some rebels were killed and all vehicles within the target were destroyed.
https://www.facebook.com/stepnewsagencysy/posts/677738069028145

A Reason why Russia should bomb the same place twice with hours of difference..
depending of the time of day.. to get as many terrorist as possible.. First a bomb
to destroy military facilities..and second a bomb to destroy soft targets.. like terrorist.


Russia for example also could bomb a place.. then later drop tiny remote
controlled mines that could be activated by drones with a radp hundreds of io signal.. and when drones detect terrorist the next day activate the mines.. and Boom.. take the rest of the terrorist.. easily.

Russia should also definitively create bombs that explode based on sound recognition ,based on the "Alahu snackbar" of the terrorist.. that explode when told the word 30x times..

All said. Russia can exploit the terrorist extremism to Islam , to their advantage..and use their fanatic slogans as a tool to more easily locate and identify them and bomb their positions.

sepheronx wrote:Of course the EW systems would work.  LOL, why do you people find it so surprising?  Such systems have existed for a long time as Militrov said.  As well, US or NATO isn't some kind of super duper beyond physics.  Russia has used ton of this stuff.  As well, these systems are not cheap.  Russia wouldnt simply purchase them to scare people.

My surprise is NATO's surprise at being surprised. It's surprising really.

More used condom....errr White Helmet™­ propaganda:

Speaking of EW...

''US Navy to Train Recruits in Celestial Navigation Amid Cyber War Threats''

http://sputniknews.com/military/20151015/1028542834/us-navy-teaches-sextants.html

franco wrote:

sepheronx wrote:So.......that makes little sense.  The Su-30's were being jammed? or was it reversed?  Either poor translation or something else.

Su-30's would have detected those american jets quite easily and from very far distance.  Unless those radars were not on at all.

Planes are equipped with IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) radar so that others of your sides planes or SAM's will not attack you. The 30SM was acting as an escort for other Russian and possibly Syrian aircraft when one of the planes in the area pipped a negative on the IFF. It was checked out, end of story.

Check out this: https://www.russiadefence.net/t1489p525-su-30-for-russian-air-force#122688

sepheronx wrote:So.......that makes little sense.  The Su-30's were being jammed? or was it reversed?  Either poor translation or something else.

Su-30's would have detected those american jets quite easily and from very far distance.  Unless those radars were not on at all.

Not really... If you Jam an aircraft..the plane jammed will be unable to use its radars at all or communications.. and according to the info the Su-30 got close to identify the plane.. shows
more than the NATO pilot did not responded who he was. But Russia had the unknown plane was not from their side side..  Because Turkey ,US ,Saudi Arabia and many others use same planes..
knowing who is who is important in Syria to know the level of potential hostility.

My Best guess is that even in the case that NATO and Russia jam each other to the point that none of their missiles works.. that is missiles controlled by Radio and radars. the advantage will be hugely in Russia favor..  Said in other ways. In a land combat between Russia and NATO , Russia have superior weapons.. Superior artillery ,superior missiles that do not depend on radio
guidance. and superior tactics too..

The American military strategy have always relied on its Airforce saturating enemy airspace and later clearing the road for their advancing armies..  But if you experience a conventional very modern war where both sides jam each others and remote controlled by radio missiles and bombs and drones do not work.. then the armies of both sides will have to fight in the old style
way.. of world war 1 and 2.  War of trenches.    

This means very long wars ,very expensive ,very slow ,and that will be prohibited wars.. avoided at all cost.. by any side ,unless it was to defend your own country from a foreign invasion. That said.. in such wars.. neither US army alone or NATO will go and invade Russia
and try to do better what hitler failed with 5 million soldiers..and neither will try to invade a foreign nation if they have powerful allies with lots of man power.. the war will simple will not happen.  

So if you ask me.. Electronic Warfare is a blessing for Russia to have it.. it will push NATO airforces away of any other illegal invasion to another sovereign nation.. this is true.. even if they had similar Electronic warfare capabilities than Russia.  When both sides have similar capabilities.. what they will do is take distance from each other.. no longer there will be one
side battles.. any place in the world and they instead will be very balanced.. making the idea
of war against Russia even less likely to happen ,even if conventional one.

In more news.. amid fears of Russian hacking their satellites.. US navy now teaching
celestial navigation to their sailors.. just in case GPS fail..

http://sputniknews.com/military/20151015/1028542834/us-navy-teaches-sextants.html

On more news. Really good chapter from Alex jones.. is very close to
my view of the Syrian Conflict.

That would of course add in to what airbornewolf was saying about what his buddies in Iraq were saying about how they are seeing some odd effects from their radar systems.  Thus having trouble detecting the planes in the first place and hence how Russian planes can surprise them.

Edit: I got my answer

http://tass.ru/en/defense/828897

So their receivers received signals and decided to go see it. Chances are, they already knew what it was but you know. Politics.

Many moons ago when we were OPFORing for US, the very first action we took during the touchy-feely introduction was to remove every electronic device the US boys had right down to electric watches. The explanation I offered during the get-to-know-us chat was you boys are going to come up against a unit that uses different tactics, different weapons and different languages and notionally you have been out in the bush with no resupply long enough for your electric toys to run out of accumulator life. You will learn to do things the old way and only after you learn that task thoroughly will you get your toys back on the final day of the exercise. These were section and rota level operations and they worked quite well. I also told them at the start that I didn't particularly care how good or how bad they were on Day 1, all this effort and support was to see them improve. It worked.

RT: Close up of SU-30SM in Syria (VIDEO)

https://www.rt.com/news/318721-syria-exclusive-su30sm-jet/

Russian strike on Telbisa this morning as part of the large SAA offensive north of Homs

sepheronx wrote:So.......that makes little sense.  The Su-30's were being jammed? or was it reversed?  Either poor translation or something else.

Su-30's would have detected those american jets quite easily and from very far distance.  Unless those radars were not on at all.

Seems they are all flying with transponders off.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:RT: Close up of SU-30SM in Syria (VIDEO)

https://www.rt.com/news/318721-syria-exclusive-su30sm-jet/

Do note how the left side by the cockpit is blurred, no debut to hide serial number or mission/kill marks.

Militarov wrote:Seems they are all flying with transponders off.

It's not like they need the transponder when only a few civilian airliners are overflying the region.

whir wrote:

Militarov wrote:Seems they are all flying with transponders off.

It's not like they need the transponder when only a few civilian airliners are overflying the region.

Transponders are extremly useful in military roles too, radars are not all mighty as people think, transponders are often used to suplement data from your radars during navigation of your own air wing. Since enemy in this case does not have suitable technology to harm any of the airforces in the area, transponders should be on. At least as form of courtesy.