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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:34 pm


    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4031913



    Under the "Admiral Kuznetsov" break the wall

    Dry dock for a cruiser will cost 20 billion rubles.

     

     

    Newspaper "Kommersant" №122 from07/15/2019page 7

    As “Kommersant” found out, the Petersburg I.I.S.under a contract with the center of ship repair Zvezdochka for 20 billion rubles. upgrades dry dock at the 35th ship repair plant in Murmansk. The dock is needed for the repair of the only aircraft carrier in the Navy, the Admiral Kuznetsov. It is planned to merge two existing docks into one large one. The work is planned to be completed in 2020, and in 2021 the cruiser will be handed over to the fleet, but experts doubt that these deadlines are realistic.

    The Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center, part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), has entered into a contract with the St. Petersburg Investment. Engineering. Construction ”(IIS) for the modernization of the dry dock of the 35th Ship Repair Plant (SRZ) in Murmansk, sources told Kommersant. Modernization is necessary for docking the only aircraft carrier in the Navy, the Admiral Kuznetsov, the cost of the contract is about 20 billion rubles.

    At Zvezdochka, “Kommersant” was informed that the dock of the 35th SRZ consists of two adjacent chambers that the contractor will have to combine, removing the partition between them. Work will also be carried out on the modernization of all the structures of the hydraulic structure - walls, slipway plates, dock equipment and other things, concluded at the enterprise. Terms and cost of the contract there do not comment.

    Member of the Board of Directors I.I.S. Andrei Mushkarev confirmed to “Kommersant” that the company signed with Zvezdochka a contract for the reconstruction of the 35th ship repair yard, where, according to the results of the modernization, the largest dock in Russia will be created to receive large ships and ships. Details of the contract and the cost of Mr. Mushkarev declined to comment, adding that the company won in a closed tender. He noted that the hydrotechnical works under the contract are aimed at the early introduction of the dock into operation, so that all deadlines are met, including the repair and delivery of the Admiral Kuznetsov.

    How USC found a place for "Admiral Kuznetsov"

    According to SPARK-Interfax, 60% of AO I.I.S. belongs to the Cyprus Voje Investments Limited, 40% of the eponymous LLC, the beneficiary of which is Gleb Yevtushenko. Recently, the company was mentioned in the context of the creation of a national marine dredging company (see “Kommersant” dated May 15and June 4 ). Among the projects on the website I.I.S. the creation of an artificial land plot in the area of ​​Krestovsky Island, construction of berthing walls in Zelenogradsk of the Kaliningrad region, repair dredging works in the Barochny basin, construction of a sea terminal in the port of Ust-Luga in the first phase, etc.

    Modernization of the 35th SRZ in Murmansk has been discussed for the last three years, the works were supposed to start in 2021, but because of the need to urgently find a place for repairing Admiral Kuznetsov, the project accelerated ( see March 20 ). At the end of 2018, the 82nd ship repair yard (owned by Rosneft) sank the largest in Russia floating dock PD-50, the only one in the country capable of receiving large ships of the Russian Navy, it was also planned to dock atomic icebreakers LC-60 for the first time.

    What could be the cause of the accident PD-50 floating dock

    At the end of June, the head of USC, Alexei Rakhmanov, told RIA Novosti that the modernization of shipyards of the 35th shipbuilding yard will last a year, and the docking of the ship and the modernization of shipyards will be carried out simultaneously. Mr. Rakhmanov stressed that the "Admiral Kuznetsov" will be handed over to the fleet in 2021, as planned.

    But Kommersant sources in the industry and experts do not consider the deadlines realistic. “In order to meet the deadlines, the contractor will probably limit itself to the creation of a temporary dry dock option: the longitudinal wall of the structure will be demolished and a temporary dam created. This will allow in the shortest possible time to drive the ship into dry dock and begin work. Upon completion of the repair of the cruiser, the modernization of the dock will continue; it may take about three years, ”says the“ Kommersant ”interlocutor. The Ministry of Defense "b" did not provide a comment. Mikhail Barabanov, a senior researcher at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (TSAST), also considers unrealistic both the period of the restructuring of the docks of the 35th SRH in one year and the docking of Admiral Kuznetsov for the same period. In his opinion, the modernization of the docks will stretch for another two or three years, that is, the end of the repair of “Admiral Kuznetsov” is possible not earlier than 2023.

    Anastasia Vedeneeva, German Kostrinsky
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:56 pm

    Again just buy some floating dry docks from China.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:37 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Again just buy some floating dry docks from China.

    I think they are going to retire this ship soon and built really small carriers like Britain's two new small carriers.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:50 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Again just buy some floating dry docks from China.

    I think they are going to retire this ship soon and built really small carriers like Britain's two new small carriers.
    actually the british carriers are a bit shorter.than Admiral Kuznetov (280m vs 305m), but with 65000 tons at full load they have a higher displacement.

    I still believe that Kuznetov will operate for another 20 years, and at the beginning will operate togethet with the new carrier (that will not be anyway commissioned before the early 2030s).

    I agree that a large floating dry dock in Murmansk would be quite useful, but the work to merge snd modernise the "fixed" drydocks into a large one in shipyard n35 is fundamental.

    Anyway, eventually a floating drydock could be even built in Murmansk.
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    Gazputin

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    Post  Gazputin on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:05 am

    recently they said they will reactivate a heli-landing ship

    "Additionally, the navy is considering plans for several new amphibious assault ships with aviation groups employing Ka-52K Katran and Ka-29M rotorcraft. There are also plans to restore the only surviving Project 1174 ship (Alexander Nikolayev) back into an operational condition."

    so why would they retire the Kuznetsov ?
    at the very worst it will be a good training ship …. because when you lose these skills …. you will probably never get them

    the British carriers are interesting and incredibly stupid at the same time
    the engines are basically the engines off an A-350 ….
    which is really clever … same fuel as the aircraft
    I'd even say the British are the leaders in gas turbine/electric ship propulsion as far as I can tell ….

    but then you have these huge ships which are equipped with crappy VTOL short range F-35s …..
    so you have to bring these big ships in close to shore to launch a piece of crap that can hardly carry anything ….
    before if runs out of fuel and crashes into the sea … what a wank

    ….. to make those ships make any sense they should buy French Rafales ….

    me … I'd make a few carriers using the same nuke engine as the Yasen nuke subs …. and stick Su-57s on them
    park them in the Pacific … a bit bigger than the Kuznetsov … carriers are next to useless anywhere else

    then I'd just have Yasen SSGNs everywhere …..
    park a few off the USA full of ASM to knock down crappy B-52s as they take off …… etc

    let's face it there is only 1 possible way NATO could even 1/2 beat Russia in a conventional war it's …..
    by swarming the defences with massive waves of cruise missiles …..

    to me SSGNs are new "carriers" … that's my view ….















    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:31 am

    Gazputin wrote:recently they said they will reactivate a heli-landing ship

    "Additionally, the navy is considering plans for several new amphibious assault ships with aviation groups employing Ka-52K Katran and Ka-29M rotorcraft. There are also plans to restore the only surviving Project 1174 ship (Alexander Nikolayev) back into an operational condition."

    so why would they retire the Kuznetsov ?
    at the very worst it will be a good training ship …. because when you lose these skills …. you will probably never get them

    The cost of it is the reason. The French use a Mistral conducting the Joan d'Arc training cruise every year to keep their aviation assets trained. It is far cheaper to operate that, which is basically a flat deck cruise ship, than it is to operate the Kuznetsov.








    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:20 am

    SSGNs are potent, but not really something you can use to show the flag.

    If they are going to have decent sized surface ships then they need aircraft... AWACS and fighters, that can go anywhere they can to protect them.

    When Russian ground forces went to Syria they took aircraft with them.

    If Russian sea surface forces go somewhere they also need to take aircraft with them... and not short range Yak-41 style aircraft... they have already developed the Su-57... might as well modify the design for naval use and use that.

    They wont have thousands of fighters at sea so if it is only going to be one or two hundred then they might as well be the best fighters you can manage to make.


    The cost of it is the reason. The French use a Mistral conducting the Joan d'Arc training cruise every year to keep their aviation assets trained. It is far cheaper to operate that, which is basically a flat deck cruise ship, than it is to operate the Kuznetsov.

    I would expect a radical update of systems and equipment and weapons on the Kuznetsov should allow a reduction in required crew and reduced operating costs... it doens't need to be a Ford class carrier... some sort of upgrade of the Ka-31 with AESA radar panels as part of the fuselage structure could greatly improve performance potential without making it too much more expensive.

    Having said that, being a global player is not going to be cheap... if you want the US to be able to do to all potential Russian international clients what they are currently doing to Venezuela then you can kiss any future where Russia has an independent view or say on things goodbye... Like London and Paris and Berlin, you need to try to work out in advance what Washington wants and say you want that too... first... then you will be a shining light of democracy for the world to follow your example and of course international companies will come in and strip mine your country of resources and people as fast as they can...

    So you wont even need your own navy... you can pay money to the us navy and they will defend your waters for you...
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:31 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Gazputin wrote:recently they said they will reactivate a heli-landing ship

    "Additionally, the navy is considering plans for several new amphibious assault ships with aviation groups employing Ka-52K Katran and Ka-29M rotorcraft. There are also plans to restore the only surviving Project 1174 ship (Alexander Nikolayev) back into an operational condition."

    so why would they retire the Kuznetsov ?
    at the very worst it will be a good training ship …. because when you lose these skills …. you will probably never get them

    The cost of it is the reason.  The French use a Mistral conducting the Joan d'Arc training cruise every year to keep their aviation assets trained.  It is far cheaper to operate that, which is basically a flat deck cruise ship, than it is to operate the Kuznetsov.    


    You.can only train helicopter operations from a mistral.  For the rafales they need.to use their nuclear aircraft carrier

    Edit, concerning the last remaining 1174 (ivan rogov class) I read on a article a few years ago that after the not delivery of mistrals, there were plans to modify it to be a proper heli carrier, but it would have been.too expensive.

    My opinion is also that it would have been stupid to do extensive modifications. The 1174 can already carry 4 helicopters. It should not.cost too much to just refurbish the engines, do minor repairs, and upgrade maybe communication systems (if you really want put there also a pantsir.for.self protection, but.not more).. It should work on its intended scope (amphibious operations). If they want an aamphibious assault ship with more than 8 helicopters, it is much more.efficient to build a proper one from scratches (priboy or lavina class)
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:25 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    You.can only train helicopter operations from a mistral.  For the rafales they need.to use their nuclear aircraft carrier

    At the rate we are going that will be the only capability that remains.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:47 pm

    Gazputin wrote:...so why would they retire the Kuznetsov ?
    at the very worst it will be a good training ship …. because when you lose these skills …. you will probably never get them...

    Because it's a money pit, it has two squadrons of fighter jets stuck on it that do nothing and enough pilots and sailors to staff two aircraft squadrons and dozen frigates

    As for "skills" Syria has demonstrated that they are non-existent



    GarryB wrote:SSGNs are potent, but not really something you can use to show the flag.....

    Offshore Patrol Vessel can show the flag no problem, just make sure there is SSGN around to deliver the rest



    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:...The 1174 can already carry 4 helicopters. It should not.cost too much to just refurbish the engines, do minor repairs, and upgrade maybe communication systems...

    This money would be better spent on another Ivan Gren, let the dead ships rot and move on already

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:16 am

    Because it's a money pit, it has two squadrons of fighter jets stuck on it that do nothing and enough pilots and sailors to staff two aircraft squadrons and dozen frigates

    As for "skills" Syria has demonstrated that they are non-existent

    Yeah, keep spewing your ignorance and hate... just because two aircraft were lost you are crying like a baby, which is ironic because such over reaction is often described as throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    The experience in Syria was rather more than just two crashes.... they planned and executed quite a few missions from the carrier and then from land bases to attack targets.... you know... the sort of experience you really only get with a real enemy in a real conflict, but no, lets write it all off as useless because Russia is going to fold up and turn in on itself and become North Korea.... ignoring international trade opportunities and just trade with the neighbours in europe that despise them... I am sure the west will use Russian resources more efficiently than Russians can.

    Offshore Patrol Vessel can show the flag no problem, just make sure there is SSGN around to deliver the rest

    And what will protect that offshore patrol vessel from anti ship missiles or air attack?

    The Russians are well known for not wasting money on their military since the end of the cold war... mostly because for much of the time they haven't had much to waste in the first place... but having a weak navy that even the english could bully around is the solution you think?


    Edit, concerning the last remaining 1174 (ivan rogov class) I read on a article a few years ago that after the not delivery of mistrals, there were plans to modify it to be a proper heli carrier, but it would have been.too expensive.

    That is the navys answer isn't it?

    A custom designed ship would be more capable and not much more expensive, but you would end up with a much better vessel that is more suited to what they need.
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    Post  hoom on Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:11 pm

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2 - Page 25 24-7892693-c9hev28ti
    and https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6920407
    “Today, all work is on schedule, technical advancement is about 38% today. This is what corresponds to the schedule and is recorded in the original documents. Work at the 35th plant has been deployed, about 15 pieces of equipment are constantly working to disassemble existing ones and start formation of (new) hydraulic structures. We have fears that we will not be able to meet the schedule for docking, no, "Rakhmanov said.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:43 pm

    hoom wrote:
    “Today, all work is on schedule, technical advancement is about 38% today. This is what corresponds to the schedule and is recorded in the original documents. Work at the 35th plant has been deployed, about 15 pieces of equipment are constantly working to disassemble existing ones and start formation of (new) hydraulic structures. We have fears that we will not be able to meet the schedule for docking, no, "Rakhmanov said.
    horribile translation. It should be: we have no fear that....
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    Post  hoom on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:10 am

    Yeah Google Translate has a big issue with negatives like that.

    Anyway, good to see work happening, seemingly at decent pace.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:46 pm

    So everything is on schedule?

    Yes, everything is on schedule!

    So what is the schedule?

    I did not and cannot say!
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:56 am

    So race is not the main factor in economic growth.

    Fair enough... we really don't have any right to be told... during the cold war they would just release photos of it on slipways or being put into the water with little to no warning... often released publicly after the ship has been in service for a while, unless it was a new design and they wanted to scare up funding to counter it or building something themselves.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:19 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Yes, everything is on schedule!  
    So what is the schedule?

    I'm sure they stretched the original schedule by some months to allow for any possible delays. Then, if/when the work is completed early, they can claim that it's ahead of schedule; if not, it's according to it.

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