S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

That's similar to il-38 elint antenna.

Preparation of the S-400 VVO air defense system for taking up combat duty

Training complex 16YU6T "Tembr-T" for S300/400.
Hi friend, could you please explain what bag is?
I can see many Russian soilder used it.
https://www.otofun.net/threads/tinh-hinh-nga-ukraine-trung-a-trung-dong-vol-146.1807551/page-13#post-63019156

The bag is for a gas mask.

How does the Aster 30 air defense system developed by France and Italy compare to the S-300 and S-400 systems?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aster_(missile_family)

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/aster-30/



This is a quote from the website below:


"The presentation of all systems was excellent, but you left out the fact that the aster 30 has the best radar in the world, capable of intercepting two targets low and high at the same time, something that neither the Patriots nor the S-400 can do, and it is a significant advantage that a defense missile system can have."

https://autojournalism.com/top-10-best-air-defence-system-in-the-world/


Another thing what about the French Crotale air defense system is it effective?

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/magazine/crotale-how-leader-air-defence-missile-systems-keeps-its-edge

How does the Aster 30 air defense system developed by France and Italy compare to the S-300 and S-400 systems?

Aster 30 and Aster 15 are like shorter range slower flying less capable 9M96 missiles of the S-350 and Redut systems.

They might have an amazing radar, but the furthest they could reach is about 120km.

They can intercept ballistic targets with a range of about 700km... which makes them rather ordinary in that regard.

Late model S-300s can hit targets at 200km flying at 2.8km/s up to 27km altitude, Aster 30, the better performing of the two missiles can reach 20km altitude... so it can't even shoot down ancient Kh-22Ms which fly at about 23km altitude... let alone Kh-32s which fly at 40km altitude.

S-400s have 250km and 400km range missiles that totally outclass any western system.

Croatal is a less capable TOR system with more expensive missiles.

In terms of western systems it is rather good, but.... the west does not take such systems seriously.

TASS; Apr 25, 12:33 pm

Almaz-Antey expects Saudi Arabia to be interested in the S-400 air defense system

Concern CEO Yan Novikov noted that Riyadh is traditionally the largest importer of American weapons, including air defense and non-strategic missile defense systems.


MOSCOW, 25 April. /TASS/. The S-400 Triumph long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) developed by the Almaz-Antey concern, due to its high performance, can arouse the interest of Saudi Arabian military specialists. This opinion was expressed by the general director of the concern Yan Novikov.

“We expect that Saudi Arabia, having assessed the high performance of this anti-aircraft missile system [S-400] and our other products, will make an objective choice,” Novikov said in an interview with the National Defense magazine on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of the establishment of the enterprise.

He noted that Saudi Arabia has traditionally been the largest importer of American weapons, including air defense and non-strategic missile defense systems. Its armed forces do not have similar Soviet and Russian systems. Saudi specialists received additional up-to-date information about Russian technology at the World Defense Show, an international arms exhibition held in Riyadh in March. The concern took part in this forum.

S-400 "Triumph" - Russian anti-aircraft missile system of long and medium range. Designed to destroy air attack and reconnaissance means (including aircraft made using the "stealth" technology) and any other air targets in conditions of intense fire and electronic countermeasures. In 2007, the S-400 was adopted by the Russian army.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14463795

"The presentation of all systems was excellent, but you left out the fact that the aster 30 has the best radar in the world, capable of intercepting two targets low and high at the same time, something that neither the Patriots nor the S-400 can do, and it is a significant advantage that a defense missile system can have."

That is a lie.

The long range missiles for S-400 are active radar homing and receive target location updates on their way to targets... the tracking radar does not need to keep continuous track of the target just keep an eye on any significant changes in direction or speed of the target to update the intercept point...

When the missile arrives in the vicinity of the intercept point it turns on its own radar and locates the target and intercepts it on its own.

The only systems that have problems dealing with high and low targets at once would be the F-14 with its mechanically scanned radar which could not deal with high and low flying targets at once because the mechanically steered radar beam was too slow to track targets great distances apart vertically.

During its tests they had targets at a range of different distances and flight speeds but they were all within about 650m of each other vertically...

It is not a huge issue normally because you never send one F-14 out to operate on its own so some can take out high flying missiles and planes and the others can take the low flying threats...

You would generally use S-400s to take out bombers and cruise missile carriers and stand off weapons platforms... lighter more numerous systems would take down any missiles that had already been launched if any.

Work on long range missiles with small interceptor missiles which would allow a single big heavy missile to be fired to get long range (S-400 or R-37M), but as it approached its targets it releases smaller interceptor missiles to intercept invidivual targets is well under way and talk of small missiles to defeat artillery and swarm attacks with 10-20kg sized missiles might be useful too.

Very long range missiles will generally fly a lofted flight trajectory which means it will be coming in at a steep angle at high speed... likely mach 5 plus so any missiles released could be designed as hypersonic gliders that manouver towards invididual targets.

A scenario like 20 B-52s are approaching.... their primary target is thousands of kms away so they are just flying towards their launch positions... an S-400 battery detects them and launches, say 40 missiles to intercept. The B-52s wont detect the launch but might get a warning as the missiles approach so they might get the chance to reprogramme some missiles to hit target that are in range and launch them, so the B-52s get wiped out but there are 2 dozen odd missiles that got launched before the planes went down. Firing another 48 missiles against targets that are not aware they are being attacked and have no defence is a bit of a waste... firing 5 missiles each carrying 8-10 mini interceptor missiles each able to intercept a cruise missile each would be vastly more effective... they wouldn't be powerful enough to bring down a large aircraft reliably but would be very much more efficient at bringing down cruise missiles or standoff weapons.

no discussions about this ?

https://sputniknews.com/20220611/iran-slams-israel-over-damascus-airport-strike-as-satellite-snaps-purportedly-show-extent-of-damage-1096227005.html

serious destruction recently at damascus int airport destroyed ,by israel airforce high precision strike ,including runways..






Whenever Russian air defenses in syria intercept israeli missiles , the MoD brags about it .
but why there is silence now about the failure off russian air defenses to protect syria air space?
s-400s, S-300s ,pantsirs ,tors and buk ,syria have apparently not good enough.

so what was  ,the purpose again of those s-300s and short range air defenses that russia gave to syria?




After so many years , of russia gave their best air defenses to syria , by now , it should have been
expected a much better performance of russian air defenses.. apparently israel figure out ,and by proxy nato too , how to counter russian air defenses , and without much problems.

If This is an indication of the performance today of russian air defenses , how they deal versus israel and by proxy how could it do versus NATO , that will have help from israel too , then this doesn't
show a good picture for future for russia ,nation security at all ..even less for kalinigrad security and they will need to go back to the drawing board..  perhaps replacing russian air defenses with heavy use of energy weapons. Because doesn't look like the russian air defenses will do that well today , in defense against adversaries airforce.

Vann7 wrote:no discussions about this ?


If This is an indication of the performance today of russian air defenses , how they deal versus israel and by proxy how could it do versus NATO , that will have help from israel too , then this doesn't
show a good picture for future for russia ,nation security at all ..even less for kalinigrad security and they will need to go back to the drawing board..  perhaps replacing russian air defenses with  heavy use of energy weapons. Because doesn't look like the russian air defenses will do that well today , in defense against adversaries airforce.

I wonder where have you been for this long ?

If you really see things. You will notice that instead of system performance, Israel, Russia, Syria and other parties like US and Turkey and Iran actually wants to maintain some form of Balance there.  This affects air defense matter beyond the simple one can intercept or not.

The simplest indicator would be why no Syrian air force aircraft doing air patrol.. Any form of working air defense have Fighter Aircraft Elements as the Frontline. Not SAM's.  Syrian airforce are active. But why they are'nt get airborne ? and Israeli ISR are public knowledfe with their path actually mapped.

Israel are the kings of sneaky backstabbing attacks without warning... F-22s and Patriots didn't stop attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Centre either.

A cowardly surprise atack against a civilian airport, they hit the terminal building... what a bunch of heros... they are truely ISISs and Al Quadas airforce...

This will get more support for Syria and Palestinians I hope.

It is funny you mention the Russians suppressing this information when you got the information from a Russian news website... what does CNN or the BBC have to say about this?

It is pretty clear the Israelis are trying to distract Russia... Russia tell Israel in no uncertain terms that this sort of thing cannot continue if they want cooperation from Russia on anything at all... Israel is a relatively small country and its population is not huge...

GarryB wrote:Israel are the kings of sneaky backstabbing attacks without warning... F-22s and Patriots didn't stop attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Centre either.

A cowardly surprise atack against a civilian airport, they hit the terminal building...
.

So then that's a confirmation that Russia air defenses can be defeated by surprise attacks ,
done in a cowardly way..  then why then praise them ? if they can't guarantee protection russia territory or any territory they are deployed?  Israel have bombed syria with precision strikes for 7 years already , hundreds of times , with a thousands of bombs and only one plane casualty.

World trade centers was an inside job , that doesn't count .. unless you believe US airforce can't shutdown 3 commercial hijacked planes  , that were flying in prohibited zones.    

but back to the on topic discussion , If Russia air defenses can't even protect their biggest warship in the  black sea , armed with s-300s and many other powerful air defenses ,that was sinked by ukraine ,likely with NATO assitance , then what's the point to continue investing in such vulnerable technology?  For me , there is enough evidence , that russian air defenses have been compromised
and understood how to counter them...  perhaps with jamming , or saturation attacks or hug terrain tactics.. perhaps all of them and more..  So it seems that by the time russia finish deploying their air defenses to cover russian territory in full ,in a year or two , that they will have to be replaced ,by something better , because will become obsolete , to protect russia. that is s-300 and s-400s.
and that they will need much more advanced tech , to deal with air space protection. Like very powerful laser weapons in land and mounted in the air in drones patrolin the skies 24 hours a day,  perhaps rail guns that can't be jammed or electromagnetic pulse strikes to disable and turn off planes and drones and missiles electronics or even fry them, or much more radical things never done done before , like tesla energy fields experiments .

All this pictures of s-300s and s-400s might looks impressive on pictures , but all this things , appears to be reaching the end of its life , can't protect properly syria even after years of russia building the unified network, can't protect russia black sea fleet ,regardless of its range ,and not even russian cities near ukraine. And they become more like something that is better to have it ,than not , bettern than nothing , but still not good enough.   Works great against russian planes , drones and most missiles  but not that great against israel or nato more advanced tactics. and this could explain the "mysterious accidents" in russia accidental detonation of things , in military and scientific instalation..   that russia air defenses are very likely compromised , and understood how to counter them,and ukraine show a few examples of this , targeting for 3 days russian cities with baykatar drones and low flying hellicopters. in what was supposed to be the best defended airspace in the world. Because of so many s-400s and s-300s and others deployed near european borders.  

A Mysterious Explosion Took Place in Russia. What Really Happened?
https://nonproliferation.org/a-mysterious-explosion-took-place-in-russia-what-really-happened/

all this "mysterious explosions" and fires deep inside russia ,all the way to moscow and far east , multiplied by coincidence after Ukraine declareld war on russia , and sucessully strike 3 russian cities , for one week , sending helicopters and drones to bomb russian fuel depots.  The only way they could have done such a thing , is that it was actually NATO the one behind the entire operation.
so there is a big chance all this russian s-300s and s-400s and others have been compromised , and nato found ways to bypass them.  Reason why donetsk continue to be bombed  and russia can't stop it.   perhaps electronic jamming , they found how , or something else.


i personally warned about the unfounded optimism for all this air defenses of russia , that can be
bypassed using tactics ,like saturation attacks , electronic jamming or low flying drones , or even hypersonic strikes with rail guns that russia is doing nothing to counter this..

and proposed years ago ..  something like this..

Tethered aerostat radar system


that is downward looking radars , for low flying aircraft ,but as always the wheelchair "Experts" in the forum correct me , that russia don't need this..    but US military do it , to enhance the security of their airspace between the border of Mexico and US.

For me , it looks that russia is not doing everything it needs to do , to really protect its airspace ,
either not doing or very slow to do anything. and the soviet era generals there , the problem with russia outdated tactics , in wars.

i always felt like Russia is a very outdated and slow thinking nation , and the only thing that just keep their military afloat is their very good scientist  and a handful of people there , but not in top positions.  And most times the best ideas comes from the west , for tech or even military.

NATO appears to be doubling down ,on investing in full airspace and space domination more than anything. and russia is not paying attention..

to this..


and dual purpose military-civilian aircraft.

could be used to steal or sabotage satellites or deploy mines .


and not paying attention to this new tactics in development by the west either.



instead of dropping planes , replace it for small and cheap drones

if for example civilian airliners used to drop hundreds if not thousands of small strike drones at same time , to disable adversaries air defenses in a major war.




So i expect russia military security problems to significantly multiply by 10x fold ,the more the west invest in full airspace and space orbit domination. and more "Accidental detonation of munition" incidents will happen with destroyers sent to the button of the sea.. "by accident".  

So russia better prepare, to significantly boost its Airforce that is under question its poor performance in ukraine ,and boost its presence in the airspace and in space domination
as the west is doing. and for domination of airspace and space , because if russia don't do it , will be sorry later.. as they are now playing catchup with the heavy use of drones versus nato.

So then that's a confirmation that Russia air defenses can be defeated by surprise attacks ,

It is confirmation that Syria needs more air defence equipment and that one S-300 battery cannot defend an entire country... something that should already be obvious.

done in a cowardly way.. then why then praise them ?

I am not praising them... it is called sarcasm... they are cowards and no better than terrorists.

They say they are trying to survive, they need to ask themselves why they think the world wants them dead and this sort of activity is why the ones that do want them dead think what they do.

Act like scum then expect to be put in the rubbish bin of history.

I can understand why they are acting out... the only thing keeping them viable is the unquestioning support from the US... and everyone can see the course the US is taking...

if they can't guarantee protection russia territory or any territory they are deployed? Israel have bombed syria with precision strikes for 7 years already , hundreds of times , with a thousands of bombs and only one plane casualty.

The Juice no longer fly into Syrian airspace for their attacks and now use long range stand off weapons... the vast majority of which were shot down most of the time.

A light plane recently flew from Lithuania across about 6 HATO countries airspace and managed to land and the pilots and crew leave the area before anyone got there and you are worried about Russian or Syrian airspace.

World trade centers was an inside job , that doesn't count ..

Not an excuse...

unless you believe US airforce can't shutdown 3 commercial hijacked planes , that were flying in prohibited zones.

They didn't shoot anything down even after it was clear the planes were being used as weapons the hijackers still managed to crash their plane into the Pentagon... the core centre of the US military...

If Russia air defenses can't even protect their biggest warship in the black sea , armed with s-300s and many other powerful air defenses ,that was sinked by ukraine ,likely with NATO assitance , then what's the point to continue investing in such vulnerable technology? For me , there is enough evidence , that russian air defenses have been compromised

The S-300F on board that ship is from the 1970s and there is still no evidence it was hit by anything at all. In fact it might have been an S-300F missile launch that failed that led to it falling to the deck and starting a fire... it would be more likely than two Ukrainian anti ship missiles hitting the target but not exploding... it is clearly burned and there has been no large detonation on or near the deck.

The Russian defences of 1978 have been compromised... you are right, but as they don't use such defences any more I am not sure what you are worried about... there have been lots of very significant upgrades for the S-300s still in service and they are being replaced right now by the S-350 system with much better performance...

cover russian territory in full ,in a year or two , that they will have to be replaced ,by something better , because will become obsolete , to protect russia. that is s-300 and s-400s.

The wests ability to attack Russia has not changed in the last 40 years... they still rely completely on low flying slow cruise missiles... MiG-31s have that covered and have done for the last 40 odd years.

Russias self defence capacity is a different world from Syrian air defence capacity because Russia can strike back... not that they would tell us about it anyway.

Most of your post is bullshit... a 747 carrying dozens of planes looks like a very easy target that could be engaged at max range with little to zero chance to evade getting hit... and what are they going to fill it with... their 5th gen fighters cost 120 million each... the aircraft is full of planes... where is supposed to carry the fuel to fly anywhere or keep those fighters fuelled up?

What a joke... each of those 747s shot down will cost the operating airforce all those planes inside... plus it is a green light for their enemies to start shooting down 747s because they will all look the same... how dumb is that...

It is very funny that you think it is Russia that has the air defence problems... western air defence is a joke.

Russian drones are being built and being put into service and a wide range are already developed but there are still a few gaps, but they are actually developing them as operational systems... how many western fighter escort drones are there.... dozens... how many are in operational service let alone serial production... S-70 will be available soon... they are giving it the same internal weapon bays as their new fighters so it can use standard full sized weapons, but they are also developing and introducing a range of small weapons for helicopters and drones to use too... something the west didn't really bother with.

Equally we have also learned that there G&T bombing system can also direct unguided rockets on lofted trajectories.... so now we know why they didn't rush Ugroza into service because dumb rockets with computer calculated trajectories are already pretty accurate... making more expensive laser guided rockets less urgent.

When the target is a group of enemy infantry you don't need extreme accuracy... a nice spread around the aim point is actually better than all your rockets hitting the same place.

G&T would be ideal for enemy troop positions and other area targets while the laser guided rockets for point targets like single vehicles... including moving ones... they have the best of both worlds and it is cheap... you can say that for most Russian weapons... and it is cheap enough to be able to make them in such enormous volumes that they don't run out like the gold plated shit the west uses.